OK. Since town either today or tomorrow seems to want to wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory, we will do one more push. Ultimately I cannot make you guys win. It's really up to you.
. What I mean by this is that GR's involvement is the opposite of that of a player like Creature. She tries very hard as scum, but as town she very often gets bored and replaces out. Now, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless. But the first point to establish here is that you should NOT take high activity GR as being town indicative. Even if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
Partly this is because
as scum GR puts on active town theater
.
Let's consider how GR constructs a list as a TPR
Spoiler:
1. Radiant Cowbells - town
2. AJ The Epic - scum
3. Cobblerfone - potential scum
4. Masquerade - potential scum
5 Xkfyu - potential scum
6. Almost50 - town
7. Golden Robster - town
8. pisskop - town
as TPR, GR constructs a list, indicates who is town and who is scum just going down. While there are "potential scum" there's really only town, scum and potential town. But of course she plays a lot of games, this isn't the only way she makes a list.
Spoiler:
Reads
Town
Axle - Solid reasoning and attempt to pressure me was very strong. Strong town vibes.
Keysor - Again, logical and analytical. First one on the Ras wagon so I'm pretty sure he is town.
Leaning Town
Massive - Second one on the Ras wagon. Good reasoning and logical thinking.
Ircher - I'd say he's pretty town. Good posts with substance.
Null
Boon - Not paid much attention to him.
RC - Not caught up.
Leaning Scum
UTL - I'm actually reconsidering this scum read partly due to the change in vote from PK to UTL. (Maybe I'm crazy, who knows)
PK - Doesn't strike me as town. His comments have been lacking and the sudden change in vote has made me immensely suspicious of him. No reasoning to back it up?
Performer - When I talked about the gut read, he switched me from slightly town to scum. Not only does this seem like an overreaction, but the possibility that scum performer realises he's on his last legs, and is trying to find someone else who looks scummier could be quite possible.
I know, I know. Everybody's like "Wow GR, why do you scum read Performer when you thought he was town like 2 seconds ago".
Here we have a VT GR read list. How is this different than the TPR list? Well, there's a simple explanation for each read. This is because GR knows that if her pushes are going to have merit there needs to be an explanation behind her reasoning. And she needs weight behind her pushes because she needs to find scum as town.
Knightmare & Ranger are most likely not the same alignment from that discussion, unless they orchestrated that little discussion which I doubt considering both factions do not have a daychat.
I liked Ranger's response in #21 and I disliked Knightmare's response to Ranger's vote. There was an aggressiveness in his posts that i'm not quite sure what to think of.
Well what's the first thing you notice here? Well, there's more than one list! This is what I mean by active!town theater. GR is constantly throwing out full read lists as scum, making small edits, because she wants to showcase just how much she is trying to sort and her entire view of the game state.
What the fuck are we even looking at here? Look at how many full read lists with very little variation and only a few explanations are given here. None of these read lists are really developing her push in a significant way. But they all give the IMPRESSION she is trying to sort. It is CONSTANT revision of a full reads list that is pure theater.
"OK" you're saying, "GR gives a lot of read lists early in the game. That's not that scummy right?"
But that's just part of it, GR is constantly dropping little 'seeming pro-town' actions, like:
Mod/deadline extensions:
Scum game:
@mod do we get a deadline extension?
This game:
In post 3257, Golden Robster wrote:@mod can we get an extension on the deadline since we need two replacements, not just one
As scum, GR does more: "Hey look at me guys I'm online, who wants to talk?"
If anybody is wondering why i'm posting a lot it's cause this is probably my only chance at a computer for the week so if anybody has any questions then now is the time to do so
As you can see, in the general pattern, GR either votes, or unvotes and IMMEDIATELY votes another player. This is because GR's TOWN philosophy is to APPLY PRESSURE WITH VOTES. She applies pressure with votes to get content and solidify her read. She puts pressure on slots because she wants to lynch scum.
Now, let's compare to GR's voting pattern in this game:
This is not how Town!GR plays mafia. This is how Scum!GR plays mafia. Scum!GR does unvote, pause, vote, because Scum!GR wants to play up her active!town theater and also get the impact of 'unvoting' on a player. Oh, I thought you were scum, but BECAUSE I AM THINKING ABOUT THE GAME, I have changed my mind! Power scum like GR LOVE the emphasis on how much THOUGHT she is putting into the game. But this is actually a scum tell, because town!GR doesn't care if people think she is thinking about the game, she just tries to lynch scum.
This is why GR has so many hundreds of posts in this game. Because EVERY TIME she decides that town!GR has had a thought, she makes a post. Because she has to prove to town JUST HOW MUCH she is thinking about the game.
: Performer (could be scum or playstyle pinging), Vax
Scum
:
Lynches: Vax > Performer > Tex > ETL
And here's where you can see the active!town theater leads into a play strategy. Texcat is ALWAYS SCUMMY, but never the lynch in GR's early game. She can ALWAYS BUS LATER, but she doesn't want texcat lynched today. THIS IS HOW GR PLAYS SCUM
In post 5897, texcat wrote:You asked for my reasons and I gave them to you. They may not be the best reasons, they may not be a convincing case on TBG, but they are not fake. Oh, or were you expecting me to say that your case on TBG is what convinced me?
no I'm asking you for actual reasoning that compelled you to vote tbg and not half-hearted reasoning that you made up on the spot
where was your TBG predecessor scumread stated?
But GR continues to poke questions at texcat, but never puts a vote on it. Why is there no vote on texcat after THIS question?
In post 6069, Golden Robster wrote:if tex was scum she would 100% be making more of an effort to appear town right now; her last post was awful
the fact that she doesn't look like she gives a shit means that she's either pro scum (which I 100% doubt) or town that doesn't care (which I believe right now)
This is bullshit and completely at odds with how town!GR plays mafia
In post 6093, Krazy wrote:HARD LURKING IS MORE SURVIVALISTIC THAN VOTING
DO YOU NOT LARGE GAME?
texcat had a flash wagon on her brought down to L-2 and she did nothing to defend herself; how is that survivalistic?
hard lurking isn't alingment indicative so don't give me that shit; you didn't wagon mylo or vax for that
This is bullshit and completely at odds with how GR approaches scumhunting as town.
Sky has already made a big part of this case. Sky has already observed--GR's progression on Texcat makes ZERO sense. I want to re-emphasize that not only is GR's progression on texcat totally illogical but it is also TOTALLY at odds with how town!GR plays mafia.
This is scum voting a counter-wagon on town to protect a buddy that she spent the first half of this game calling scum, randomly switched to town, and then INDIRECTLY defended by pushing counter-wagons while she was being run up.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:19 pm
by Krazy
So let's review:
What evidence is there that GR is town?
None.
-We already know scum committed to bussing Wheme, and GR joined on Wheme after the wagon was already fully formed.
-GR did NOT bus texcat but used WIFOM to argue that she wouldn't
-GR was put into a position where she has to crossbus after the texcat vote because the masons and townblock had grown too large
Where is the evidence that GR is scum?
Everywhere.
-GR Is constantly playing up scumhunting theater while rarely developing reads into sustained arguments and rarely getting wagon support for her pushes. Remember, when she is town, she pushes to get people to join her wagons and sheep her vote.
-She goes out of her way to foreground 'active town play' with little barrages of small posts
-She is constantly unvoting and revoting, always playing up her decision making process rather than emphasizing the pressure she's putting on wagons
-She is constantly tweaking her own little lists to play up her appearance of sorting while never actually committing to half her reads
-Her development on texcat is totally incoherent and her counter-push on Scion was inconceivable for a town!GR
-Texcat's interactions with her are forced and very puffery, and always include an additional response to JJD because texcat doesn't trust herself to only respond to a scumbuddy
-Gamma's interactions with her are incredibly fake and totally at odds with how both vote
-She has unloaded a massive wave of AtE and why-meisms as soon as she was under pressure which is TOTALLY consistent with how she plays scum when she's under pressure
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:22 pm
by Krazy
Anyway, I'm sure Ank will spam like 5000 fucking little response so this gets pushed back to an earlier page by the time anyone logs on, but GR is basically playing her scum game to a T and she absolutely should get lynched today. I know Ank will throw nonstop shade at me while quoting herself or something and saying the word "gamestate read" three times a post, and then GR will come in and say I'm tunneling because that is literally the only rebuttal GR has ever offered. But I do at some point need some mixture of TBG, Creature, Mylo, and Sky to actually lynch GR if we are going to win this game.
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:23 pm
by Ankamius
if GR ever flips scum this game, I'm prod dodging for the rest of eternity
if GR ever flips town, then it's more confirmation that meta is just shit
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:38 pm
by Golden Robster
all of my scum games are in 2016 and reading back I sound partially cringe on read-through; thanks man
but back to the main point I can respond to every point you make
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:51 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 7426, Krazy wrote:First, GR clearly has an inverted meta. What I mean by this is that GR's involvement is the opposite of that of a player like Creature. She tries very hard as scum, but as town she very often gets bored and replaces out. Now, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless. But the first point to establish here is that you should NOT take high activity GR as being town indicative. Even if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
This inverted meta argument points to me being town (even though meta is awful); my involvement is based on my emotional investment into the game; if I'm doing great in a game I'll be more invested to actually post content vs. not being great and not doing anything
but as town she very often gets bored and replaces out
this is factually wrong and slightly offensive
Now, in fairness, this level of GR involvement is something new regardless
which derails everything you've just said about in terms of meta; tell me what year those games were in and tell me the date now
Even if GR has replaced in after hundreds of posts have already been put out, GR will still be in the top posters for a game as scum. Whereas, GR hardly ever is in the top posters as town.
factually wrong again; the two scum games I were in the first one I won because I lived to endgame so it makes sense that I was top poster
second scum game I was 5th?
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:57 pm
by Golden Robster
Here we have a VT GR read list. How is this different than the TPR list? Well, there's a simple explanation for each read. This is because GR knows that if her pushes are going to have merit there needs to be an explanation behind her reasoning. And she needs weight behind her pushes because she needs to find scum as town.
Now, what does GR do with lists as scum?
Spoiler:
Well what's the first thing you notice here? Well, there's more than one list! This is what I mean by active!town theater. GR is constantly throwing out full read lists as scum, making small edits, because she wants to showcase just how much she is trying to sort and her entire view of the game state.
lab rat mafia that I finished recently; these reads are literally the same as the ones I post here which point to me being town krazy
picking out pieces that fit your argument and not looking at it objectively
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:16 pm
by Golden Robster
In post 7424, wavemode wrote:what about what transpired yesterday nullifies what parts of my reasoning, exactly?
d6*
counter-wagon to scum, gamma was first vote and pushed me non-stop all of d6?
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:35 am
by wavemode
he briefly voted you day 5. on day 6 he was like the 6th vote overall, if you factor in people who unvoted
not that any of this proves much in the first place. you yourself want to lynch vax, who tex wheme and gamma all pushed. even you recognize that bussing is the game of mafia, even at times when from the outside we might say "it's bad strategy for scum to have bussed there"
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:39 am
by Ircher
Spoiler: Current Voting History
Spoiler: Previous Voting History
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:12 am
by Vaxkiller
VOTE: GOlden Robster
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:12 am
by Vaxkiller
Im flipping town so dont friggin make that mistake.
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:16 am
by Vaxkiller
real quick krazy mylo and creature are town
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:18 am
by Vaxkiller
ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:25 am
by Vaxkiller
mylo could you please reconsider.
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:31 am
by Ankamius
In post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
In post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
Scum partner, slot doing nothing, and slot shielding him is town
Slots that think the counterwagon is scum is suspicious
Miscellaneous slots on counterwagon are looking townier
In post 7443, Vaxkiller wrote:ank rubs me the wrong way not sure about sky or TBH. THe fact that JarJar and Wavemode are on goldenrobster makes me feel a little better about them.
Scum partner, slot doing nothing, and slot shielding him is town
Slots that think the counterwagon is scum is suspicious
Miscellaneous slots on counterwagon are looking townier
This is so fake
Do you already have your responses ready for when I flip town?
"Oh he wasnt being towny enough.... we all thought... it's not my fault..."
Yeah ok.
Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:52 am
by Ankamius
Hard to have responses ready for something that won't happen