[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Post Post #7475 (ISO) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:32 pm

Post by TierShift »

Town should get a lynch before deadline, so stalling is stupid.
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Post Post #7476 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:10 am

Post by wgeurts »

Ok, I'm taking a shot again at my zombie setup again.
Divine Madness
1 Mutant Zombie

1 Cult Leader
1 Cult Extremist

1 Deprogrammer
1 Survivor Doctor
1 Surgeon
1 Macho Faction-Cop
9 Vanilla Townies


Win Conditions
Zombies
:
Wins when everyone is infected.

Cult
:
Wins when majority of all players remaining is a member of the cult.

Town
:
Wins when all zombies and cult members are dead.


Role Descriptions
  • Mutant Zombie:

    Visits one person each night, that player becomes infected. An infected player player becomes a zombie after the next night.
    Nothing happens if (s)he visits a member of the cult and cannot be converted to the cult.
  • Zombie:

    Visits one person each night, that player becomes infected. An infected player player becomes a zombie after the next night.
    Dies if (s)he visits a member of the cult and cannot be converted to the cult.
  • Cult Leader:

    Member of the cult that shares a PR with the Cult Founder. (s)he can choose to visit one person and convert them to the cult. If the Cult Leader uses his ability the Cult Extremist can't use his that night.
  • Cult Extremist:

    Member of the cult which shares a PT with the Cult Leader. (s)he can choose to visit one person to night-kill them. If the Cult Extremist uses his ability the Cult Leader can't use his that night.
  • Cultist:

    A member of the cult that has no abilities.
  • Deprogrammer:

    Visits one person each night, if that player is a Cultist he is converted to a Vanilla Townie.
  • Survivor Doctor:

    Visits one person each night. That player looses any infected status and is protected from any night-kills. It the player targeted is a zombie that player dies.
    The Survivor Doctor can be infected but won't convert to a zombie.
  • Surgeon:

    Visits one person each night, that player is protected from night-kills and 1 zombie visiting his target (if there are any) dies. The visited player is also protected from being infected or converted that night however he won't loose any existing infected status.
  • Macho Faction-Cop:

    Visits one person per night and finds out if they are; Zombie/Cult/Town.
    Can't be protected from night-kills.
  • Vanilla Townie:

    No abilities.


Extra NotesEvery day start the mod must say how many zombies are in game at that moment. (Not how many infected.)
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Post Post #7477 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:35 pm

Post by BBmolla »

No.
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Post Post #7478 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:04 pm

Post by wgeurts »

BBmolla wrote:No.

Any reasons whyever not?
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Post Post #7479 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:29 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

The main problem with any alignment switching games:

It's so confusing and it starts getting less "read-based" and more luck based.

Anyways this game is still swingy as hell.
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Post Post #7480 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Post by wgeurts »

This would be a zombie/mafia version.
Divine Madness
1 Night-1-Invincibility Zombie

1 Mafia Survivor Doctor
2 Mafia Goons

1 Survivor Doctor
1 Asceticizer
1 Macho Survivor Faction-Cop
6 Vanilla Townies


Role Descriptions
  • 1-Shot Doctor-Proof Zombie:

    Visits one person each night, that player receives an infected status. Infected player become a zombie after the next night. You survive any effects that would kill you night 1.
  • Survivor Doctor:

    Visits one person each night, that player is prevented from being night-killed or being infected. Any existing infected status is removed and if the visited player is a zombie that player dies.
    Can't turn into a zombie.
  • Asceticizer:

    Visits one person each night, anyone who visits that player that night is role-blocked.
  • Macho Survivor Faction-Cop:

    Visits one person each night to fond out that players alignment. Can't be protected from night-kills and can't turn into a zombie.
  • Goon:

    A mafia member with no abilities.
  • Vanilla Townie:

    A town member with no abilities.

Removed the cult here to balance stuff out, once again at the start of every day the mod must post a zombie count. (Aka how many zombie in game.)
The town wins by killing all mafia, not only the zombies.
Last edited by wgeurts on Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:44 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post Post #7481 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:54 pm

Post by ika »

no.

your still adding in alignment changing and traitor is to be scum from start, none of the zombie setups are ment for opens. do them in theme/micro
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Post Post #7482 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:03 pm

Post by wgeurts »

ika wrote:no.

your still adding in alignment changing and traitor is to be scum from start, none of the zombie setups are ment for opens. do them in theme/micro

Why is alignment changing such a no-no?
I could see with the cult so I removed them however now the zombie faction would make for a very interesting game. There are 2 doctors and 1 asceticizer which makes it hard for the zombies so they aren't to overpowered.
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Post Post #7483 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:33 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

wgeurts wrote:Why is alignment changing such a no-no?

Do you like having your win condition change half-way though a game?

If you somehow do, can you please explain how you manage to do that with a day phases of 2 weeks of each alignment?
and other people having theirs changed as well.
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Post Post #7484 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:35 pm

Post by ika »

Cheery Dog wrote:
wgeurts wrote:Why is alignment changing such a no-no?

Do you like having your win condition change half-way though a game?

If you somehow do, can you please explain how you manage to do that with a day phases of 2 weeks of each alignment?
and other people having theirs changed as well.


addin in to this, what happens if zombie gets lynched day 1? now we have 3v9 (after nk) and leaves then with 2 myslynches beofre they gain majority

and does it affect scums? how would that resolve? what happens when all scums get zombied? no more nk then. then they can just go "hey no lynch lets all be converted and we all win"
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Post Post #7485 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:53 pm

Post by BBmolla »

wgeurts wrote:
ika wrote:no.

your still adding in alignment changing and traitor is to be scum from start, none of the zombie setups are ment for opens. do them in theme/micro

Why is alignment changing such a no-no?
I could see with the cult so I removed them however now the zombie faction would make for a very interesting game. There are 2 doctors and 1 asceticizer which makes it hard for the zombies so they aren't to overpowered.

Imagine you're playing Chess. You're black pieces, he's white pieces. You've managed to completely dominate the enemy and you're about the checkmate the King.

Then the other player turns the board around. You are now white and he's black.

Is that fun
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Post Post #7486 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:10 pm

Post by TierShift »

Nice analogy molla
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Post Post #7487 (ISO) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:49 pm

Post by wgeurts »

BBmolla wrote:
wgeurts wrote:
ika wrote:no.

your still adding in alignment changing and traitor is to be scum from start, none of the zombie setups are ment for opens. do them in theme/micro

Why is alignment changing such a no-no?
I could see with the cult so I removed them however now the zombie faction would make for a very interesting game. There are 2 doctors and 1 asceticizer which makes it hard for the zombies so they aren't to overpowered.

Imagine you're playing Chess. You're black pieces, he's white pieces. You've managed to completely dominate the enemy and you're about the checkmate the King.

Then the other player turns the board around. You are now white and he's black.

Is that fun

However, how would that happen in this setup?
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Post Post #7488 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:40 am

Post by Cheery Dog »

Town dominates Mafia, the remainder then becomes mostly zombies.

You may have people that can withstand the infection/save infection, but overall it's still a cult game, where everyone is a cult leader with delays.
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Post Post #7489 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:36 am

Post by wgeurts »

Cheery Dog wrote:Town dominates Mafia, the remainder then becomes mostly zombies.

You may have people that can withstand the infection/save infection, but overall it's still a cult game, where everyone is a cult leader with delays.

Any thoughts on how I could balance the town/scum situation?
The people eventualy surviving the zombie plague is the whole point of the setup, however apl these "cult-leaders" don't know who the other zombies are and have no PT together, the zombies will therefore be rather unorganised.
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Post Post #7490 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:41 am

Post by quadz08 »

If the whole point of your setup is "people will change alignments," then it's practically guaranteed to be an unfun setup in practice.
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Post Post #7491 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:47 am

Post by wgeurts »

quadz08 wrote:If the whole point of your setup is "people will change alignments," then it's practically guaranteed to be an unfun setup in practice.

Well, it's not made that Zombie has the only chance of victory. However they are there and therefore people will be converted. To counter this there are roles that block/cure/kill the zombies/infected. It's a setup built around the zombie, not zombie being an extra.
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Post Post #7492 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:49 am

Post by wgeurts »

quadz08 wrote:If the whole point of your setup is "people will change alignments," then it's practically guaranteed to be an unfun setup in practice.

Also, are there games like this that have ever been run?
What were the reactions to this?
Everybody seems to frown on aligment changing however IMO it isn't too bad if there isn't too much of it. If people were to join a game knowing there are alignment changes they should be fine with it.
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Post Post #7493 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:59 am

Post by OkaPoka »

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58854


this game had one cult see how it ended
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Post Post #7494 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:07 am

Post by wgeurts »

OkaPoka wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58854


this game had one cult see how it ended

This is exeptional, the zombie can infect someone and that player will only convert after the next night (So if infected Night 1 you'd convert to zombie Day 3.). This also means that doctors have 2 chances to uninfect you (If doc chooses same player as zombie or the night before conversion.).
The more zombies there are the more likely zombies will visit zombies and docs will kill zombies.
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Post Post #7495 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:09 am

Post by OkaPoka »

The thing is: a lot of people on this site hate alignment switching.


If you want to run that setup it is going to need a couple disclaimers. It is basically impossible to balance a game with alignment switching due to all the possibilities.
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Post Post #7496 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:10 am

Post by wgeurts »

Also, the town wins by killing all the mafia, the zombies therefore will try to stall that as much as they can to stop the town from winning. This would lead to possible read chances.
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Post Post #7497 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:13 am

Post by wgeurts »

OkaPoka wrote:The thing is: a lot of people on this site hate alignment switching.


If you want to run that setup it is going to need a couple disclaimers. It is basically impossible to balance a game with alignment switching due to all the possibilities.

That's why I've tried to balance it as much as you can. If you're going to have a third recruiting faction you shouldn't nerf them beyond win chance.
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Post Post #7498 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:14 am

Post by OkaPoka »

you should just not have a third party recruiting team.
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Post Post #7499 (ISO) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:16 am

Post by wgeurts »

OkaPoka wrote:you should just not have a third party recruiting team.

Bleh, once I'm able to mod I may try it on a theme game to see how it runs.
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