Scummers Mafia: Greatest Bash? (Game Over, Scum wins?)

[Diacria]

If Spy is scum, Monkey is scum with him.
Mask = town.
Niv = town.

[Zang]

Why is SpyreX scum? Just because of his miller claim? That should just be neutral because he could be scum lying or a miller telling the truth. I think we should just base his scuminess of his play and ignore (more or less) his miller claim for now.

[Niv]

re:ortolan: I am unfavoring to those who try to clear others (be it their scumbuddies, or buddying up in general) off of miniscule instances such as Sens' policies. If anything, that whole situation could have served as nothing other than a note, or reminder, in the event Sens' and his replacement do anything further to help them appear as a likely pro-town slot.

Most could hold a personal view that ort' would not step in for his pal so early in the game. However, with us having a night start, it's common for scum (rather, I myself have done this as scum) to subtly give others a reason to speculate on whether they have guaranteed information (a.k.a. night results). This POV is further supported with ort's opening vote over you, Zaz', accompanied by his question of who you would kill N0.

There may be bonafide town-motivation behind it, or someone of any alignment could feign being an investigator. But, what I'm thinking here is that mafia-ort' is setting himself up to look like a role with a night action that has evidence suggesting Zaz' is probscum, which sneaks upon the rest of us an influence to believe that ort' is trustsworthy for a hefty duration of the game's beginnings. When a mind believes something so long, it's hard to shake off later.

I see where you are comeing from here, but, well, it feels like a big stretch, and requires allot of stars to align.

Now, anyone curious as to why I am not voting ort' for this theory: well, ort' needs to establish connections to the rest of his team mates so we know who to look into afterwards. That, and, uh...also because I could be wrong.

Ok, so what was the point of this statement. the first half really appears entirely self defeating. you could have just said:

Now, anyone curious as to why I am not voting ort' for this theory: well,

ort' needs to establish connections to the rest of his team mates so we know who to look into afterwards. That, and, uh...also

because I could be wrong.

and whether or not anything could ever come of that, this statement is better off not bieng made.

I hope that made sense.

[Cuttlefish]

Hi my name is DeathNote and I am a millers.

This makes sense, flavour-wise. I'm inclined to believe this claim.

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Ellipses are scummy, Fingers of Suspicion are scummy (especially in the RVS).

FoS: Monkey

Why the FoS? Why no vote?

To be clear, if Spy really is a Miller, claiming was 100% correct.
He still needs to go. It's just way too convinient a claim for Scum to be able to dodge Cops all game long.

The thing is, we have this other thing at our disposal. I can't remember its name, though. It sounded like... Scumblunting? Gumhunting? I can't remember.

I didn't reach any conclusion, stupid or otherwise.

If you hadn't reached a conclusion, why did you vote for him?

FoS: Papa Zito for that votecount

Why was it suspicious?

FoS: MonkeyMan also

Again with the FoS. Still scummy.

Fos Diacria

Another FoS. I'm starting to think that at least some of the FoSers have to be town.

Niv never self-voted. Vote: Papa Zito, for his attempts at mass confusion.

I really don't think that's what he was trying to do. This looks like mud-throwing.

-I'm facebook friends with the mod.

ABR?

I know that someone, Kublai Khan, has claimed miller as scum and survived through endgame and win.

And how is that related to what we have here?

but the miller claim should not be treated as a scum tell for now, and there are roles other than cop that can check his alignment.

Or, you know, SCUMHUNTING.
Also, these two quotes of yours seem to contradict. Something just isn't sitting right with me.

Catching up later. I really have to go.

[Diacria]

No vote because millers need to die. Unless Spy starts MOONBEAMING reaalllly fast.

[MonkeyMan576]

No vote because millers need to die. Unless Spy starts MOONBEAMING reaalllly fast.

This makes no sense. If millers need to die, then why not vote? And if he really is a miller, then he's town, and only scum would want townies to die.

[Diacria]

Nik was asking why I didn't vote you.
I obv meant early miller claims.

[kunkstar7]

I almost feel sorry for Sens.

We don't lynch SpyreX today.

Care to explain why you think so? Maybe enlighten us to which camp you are in (regarding millers).

There may be bonafide town-motivation behind it, or someone of any alignment could feign being an investigator. But, what I'm thinking here is that mafia-ort' is setting himself up to look like a role with a night action that has evidence suggesting Zaz' is probscum, which sneaks upon the rest of us an influence to believe that ort' is trustsworthy for a hefty duration of the game's beginnings. When a mind believes something so long, it's hard to shake off later.

I feel like this really beginning to stretch things. Especially on the basis of one, maybe two posts.

[hasdgfas]

All right, doing a little look-through. Sorry for length, but I have some things to catch up on.

Post 15: I agree with Sens about alts identifying their main accounts. I WILL vote for you if you don't. If it's going to be announced, mains deserve to be outed.

Post 17: All right then. Either the correct play or a very early scum gambit. I'm not going to commit one way or another right now.

Post 26: This is worth a

FoS

. Being really non-commital with regards to Spyre, only FoSing. I can't really tell if he's suspicious of him at all. Using RVS as part of the suspicion is just silly, because I don't know what is trying to be said here.

Post 37: Wow. Claws out much? Was that really necessary? And if so, why not come right out and say it as opposed to being so passive-aggressive?

Post 39: This is incredibly inane and adds nothing to the conversation. Why even bring it up?

Post 48: And Spyre wasn't

most

suspicious at the time of your first post? It's fine if you switch later, but only FoSing seems like trying to play both sides. I don't like it at all. Also calling Sens suspicious for replacing out at that point is silly. It's really obvious he wasn't trying to avoid pressure and there was another reason.

Post 56: What am I supposed to say, Monkey? He's not me. He seemed to me, before I even knew I was replacing in, to be town.

Post 58: Thank you for some sanity in this conversation regarding millers. Why do you feel sorry for me, Niv? And Sens obviously replaced out for reasons other than people disagreeing with him. Anyone who says otherwise should be lynched for reasons of stupidity.

Post 59/61: So you're an alt of? No games please, I'd prefer being straight-up. And why is ortolan scum trying to look town, and why is Papa Zito more votable if you actually feel this way?

Post 63/64: And this has to do with what?

Post 75: Any reason we're just coming out and claiming people are town on Day 1?

Post 76: IF he is scum, Zang. Read please. HUGE difference.

Post 78: Why, praytell, are FoS's scummy?

Post 80: This is an INCREDIBLY scummy post. A) He is voting Spy. B) It's so obvious that he meant millerclaim that it's just such an obvscum move to add the last sentence.



In conclusion:

Monkey is either obvscum or VI, and it's just too scummy to be VI-esque, IMO.

unvote vote: Monkey

let's not lynch spyre today, and just try to read his play.

[Niv]

Post 58: Thank you for some sanity in this conversation regarding millers. Why do you feel sorry for me, Niv? And Sens obviously replaced out for reasons other than people disagreeing with him. Anyone who says otherwise should be lynched for reasons of stupidity.

Because i felt you'd have to deal with the whole "Sens replacement scumtell" which A) is bogus, and B) not defendable by you.

And because he made a post which more than one person thought was scummy, and then replaced out before defending it.

Post 15: I agree with Sens about alts identifying their main accounts. I WILL vote for you if you don't. If it's going to be announced, mains deserve to be outed.

Why do you feel this way. Alts IMO are great ways to test new theories and playstyles and disprove metas. the loss of anonymity really hurts the Alt principle to begin with.

No vote because millers need to die. Unless Spy starts MOONBEAMING reaalllly fast.

This makes no sense. If millers need to die, then why not vote? And if he really is a miller, then he's town, and only scum would want townies to die.

Post 80: This is an INCREDIBLY scummy post. A) He is voting Spy. B) It's so obvious that he meant millerclaim that it's just such an obvscum move to add the last sentence.

I wasn't sure what to make of that post When Monkey made it. I can see how it came across as scummy to you, but I personally just felt it came across as stupid.

Also, Unrelated @ Has:

is there a reason you don't use quote tags? Hyperlink Multiquoteing I've always found hard/annoying to read. also, I do know the story of why people call you Cow, but do you prefer it, or would you prefer Has?

[Pomegranate]

We don't lynch SpyreX today.

Care to explain why you think so? Maybe enlighten us to which camp you are in (regarding millers).

I think that we shouldn't lynch SpyreX today, and work off of the quality of his play for the future. I don't see the need to lynch him today. I think that he's playing a miller correctly, and that it fits with the Death Note claim.

[Cuttlefish]

That said this is the first time I've been blessed with a miller role that I knew about at the start of the game - and I would prefer to be the unsure-vig target versus a lynch because its too easy to smokescreen in.

Well, judging by your claim, I think you're town. The DeathNote being a miller thing makes perfect sense.

UnVote Cow, Vote ortolan

I don't get it. Why is ort scum from that post you quoted?

Post 78: Why, praytell, are FoS's scummy?

Someone who is town should be trying to get scum lynched. You can't do that with an FoS. If you're suspicious of someone, you should be voting them unless you're voting someone more suspicious, and I don't think any of the people who FoS'd others had a decent vote on another person.

I don't really see the point in claiming miller in the RVS, it certainly raises suspicions...

FOS: SpyreX

Looking more closely at this post (now that I'm not in a rush to get to the cafe), Monkey seems to have knowledge that Spy actually is a miller, especially the "it certainly raises suspicions" with ellipses bit. He says, "I don't see the point in claiming miller," which implies that Monkey thinks Spy is a miller, and then goes on to FoS Spy.
Scummy scum scum scum.

Unvote. Vote: Monkey.

Pomegranate, what do you think of all this Monkey business?

[manho]

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

[manho]

my gut said monkey is actually town. but sadly my gut is insane. so,

unvote, vote: monkey

[MonkeyMan576]

Wow, I've never seen such a baseless wagon, like, ever.

[SpyreX]

*shock* I think I could get behind the monkey train - especially for post 89.

However, and lets make this real clear now: I'd rather be the lynch (or the shot in the near future) if I start seeing the miller vision kick in. Dia flag up in the house.

Manho's 88 makes me a little itchy but its not at a point I can pin it down yet. Especially with the 87 backbreaker.

If the site wants to cooperate I'll post more in the morn'

[ZazieR]

@Maskie
Seriously, I'm curious as to whom you are I might turn that mode on, but I'm looking forward so much to using my whip and fluffy black handcuffs on Orto >:]
Serious reason: I need more posts before my feast can begin

Still Monkey and Orto are scum, so the feast is getting ready to start, Ohohohoho.


Monkey still needs to explain why Spyrex's claim makes him look suspicious.

And my Maskie love starts to grow. If Orto is indeed scum, Kunk is his partner. Manho too is a possibility.
Kunk for his 'passive' statement against Maskie's post about Orto-scum.
('Passive' as I get the impression that he's testing the waters, due to the word 'beginning'.)
Manho as for his stalling and the two faced position towards the topic. One thinks Maskie is stretching, yet the other still wants an explanation from Orto.

Speaking about Manho, don't like his vote. The insane part gives him a reason to backtrack. Also, can you tell why you're getting a town gut feeling from Monkey and why you think your gut is insane?

I want MM to respond to Cuttle(fish)Nik's vote, because I don't read it like that.

[Starbuck]

Busy weekend, sorry guys.





Vote Count Issues!!!

Pomegranate (2): Papa Zito

PZ, got something to tell us?

Pom already asked for your explanation once. I'm asking it for it now too.

SpyreX (2): Starbuck, Cow, Diacria

And what's with this vote count shenanigans?

Unvote
Vote: Papa Zito

On ZazieR

Ohohohoho, I'm back with my whip and black fluffy handcuffs >:]

OoOoO, I iz excited!

On hasdgfas

If you are going to link to that many posts, can you put the person's name somewhere around the beginning of what you have to say about it (ex: Starbuck's Post 37)? It makes for easier reading and less tl;dr.

Wow. Claws out much? Was that really necessary? And if so, why not come right out and say it as opposed to being so passive-aggressive?

I am anything but passive-aggressive. If you want to see my claws out, I can pull them out.

And Sens obviously replaced out for reasons other than people disagreeing with him. Anyone who says otherwise should be lynched for reasons of stupidity.

He gave no reason for replacing out. I *believe* that it has to do with me, but that doesn't give you an out to redeem your role from the scummy mess that he left you in.




I have a couple questions.



I just re-read back over everything and I'm not understanding the wagon and case on Monkey. Can someone elaborate?

Also, honest question here, who has NEVER played with DeathNote?

[ortolan]

Orto needs to explain how serious those FoSes were.

Always serious

(You played in The Ocarina of Time mafia from Tarhalindur, right?)

No I didn't, sadly.

Anyway, full claim please Zazie.

There may be bonafide town-motivation behind it, or someone of any alignment could feign being an investigator. But, what I'm thinking here is that mafia-ort' is setting himself up to look like a role with a night action

Talk about going off on a tangent. Anyways, I wouldn't think that would be particularly brilliant play as scum because it would just make one an attractive nk target if there are multiple scum factions, and also put more pressure on one to falsify results/maintain a narrative as to why one is not night-killed later in the game.

Ellipses are scummy, Fingers of Suspicion are scummy (especially in the RVS).

Agreed in Monkey's case but you can't call my FoSes scummy, I had to FoS because I was already voting someone and neither of my FoSes were random.

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

I would normally find this comment extremely scummy (there's not really anything in The Mask's case I can actually respond to, it's all baseless speculation), but something about manho's phrasing gives me the innocent newb vibe. manho might be someone to watch later on if he's an alt.

Just to remind you Zazie, we are waiting for you to claim, under penalty of death.

[dramonic]

Votecount 2: Lurkers Already?

The Mask (2): kunkstar, Ani
SpyreX (1): Diacria
ZazieR (1): Ortolan
Cow (1): Monkeyman
Pomegranate (2): Papa Zito
Diacria (1): SpyreX
Ortolan (3): Zang, ZazieR, Niv
Monkeyman (3): Cow, Manho, Cuttlefish
Papa Zito (0): Starbuck

Not Voting (4): Nhammen, Pomegranate, The Mask, RisingPheonix

The Prod is gonna fly tomorrow...

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch!

[Papa Zito]

Actually I've got 2 bits of info.

Pomegranate (2): Papa Zito

WHO'S THE POWERFUL WIZARD NAO?

Oh wait

Monkeyman (2): Cow, Manho, Cuttlefish
Papa Zito (0): Starbuck

One of these kids obv had their vote transferred to me. Dunno who or how. I was informed I had an additional vote, just for today, after day started.

2nd bit: Any pro-town power roles in this game should not target me. Repeat: Any pro-town power roles in this game should not target me.

inb4 shitstorm


P.S.

Vote: Papa Zito, for his attempts at mass confusion.

This is so lame.

unvote: Pom
vote: The Mask

inb4 OMGUS

[ZazieR]

Orto, I have no intention of claiming. Please state your reason for wanting one.
Also, the part about the Ocarina of Time wasn't aimed at you, but at Phoenix.

But Orto, thanks for helping me find the answer to the thing I wanted to know. You can die now.

[dramonic]

There was a typo in the 2nd voteount. It has since been fixed.

[kunkstar7]

mask's case on ort is a bit far-stretched, but ort need to explain it sooner or later. i prefer later.

If he needs to explain it, why is later any better?

Wow, I've never seen such a baseless wagon, like, ever.

This is not a defense. Show us why its baseless.

Kunk for his 'passive' statement against Maskie's post about Orto-scum.
('Passive' as I get the impression that he's testing the waters, due to the word 'beginning'.)

Not sure I can defend against the passive idea as its your own personal inflection on that post. Although I will say that Maskie's post is just trying to throw something at ortolan to add to his wagon. Do you believe that ort is setting up a PR claim in hopes of setting you up as scum, and to gain towncred? Seems way too farfetched to me.

Also, honest question here, who has NEVER played with DeathNote?

*raises hand*

Although I've heard/read enough to see how the role fits with DeathNote.

Vote Count Issues!!!

Pomegranate (2): Papa Zito

PZ, got something to tell us?

Why would you call it out Starbuck when it looks like you are the one who gave PZ the extra vote? Do you have an explanation for this part of PZ's story?

[hasdgfas]

Post 15: I agree with Sens about alts identifying their main accounts. I WILL vote for you if you don't. If it's going to be announced, mains deserve to be outed.

Why do you feel this way. Alts IMO are great ways to test new theories and playstyles and disprove metas. the loss of anonymity really hurts the Alt principle to begin with.

I agree, and I wouldn't make a big deal out of this, except that dram identified that they were alts. Full disclosure about this is good for the town.

Also, Unrelated @ Has:

is there a reason you don't use quote tags? Hyperlink Multiquoteing I've always found hard/annoying to read. also, I do know the story of why people call you Cow, but do you prefer it, or would you prefer Has?

Normally, I do use quote tags, but when I was on hiatus, I realized that, at least when I'm replacing in and doing a mega catch-up post, links are easier so I don't have to quote everything.
Either Cow or Has is fine.

On hasdgfas

If you are going to link to that many posts, can you put the person's name somewhere around the beginning of what you have to say about it (ex: Starbuck's Post 37)? It makes for easier reading and less tl;dr.

Realized that after I did it.

And Sens obviously replaced out for reasons other than people disagreeing with him. Anyone who says otherwise should be lynched for reasons of stupidity.

He gave no reason for replacing out. I *believe* that it has to do with me, but that doesn't give you an out to redeem your role from the scummy mess that he left you in.

If you believe I was left in a scummy mess, could you please explain it? You are the only one to think so right now, as far as I can tell.

also @Star: I find it very hard to believe that you don't get the case on Monkey. Could you read over his posts again? It's rather obvious.


@ort: Why do you believe Zazie should claim?