TV Upick - Scum win

[GhostWriter]

This is a playstyle difference between us then. I find it to be pro-town only in that it helps the cop not waste one investigation. For everyone else, they need to literally play as if I haven't claimed; read me as if you know nothing of my claim. Because the claim wasn't for your benefit or to trick you, it was to prevent a possible wasted investigation. Scumhunting isn't affected.

[izakthegoomba]

I believe that it is pro-town for millers to claim early; as GW said, it stops a cop wasting an investigation.

But I can see it as a very effective scum gambit, too.

I'm reserving judgement for now.

[izakthegoomba]

I believe that it is pro-town for millers to claim early; as GW said, it stops a cop wasting an investigation.

But I can see it as a very effective scum gambit, too.

I'm reserving judgement for now.

[izakthegoomba]

Crap, I DP'd. I hate my computer.

[CrashTextDummie]

I know for a fact that this game has several scum roles that would come up as guilty upon a cop investigation (this game was not announced to be bastard). I do not know for a fact that this game features a miller. To suggest that a claim should simply be discarded as if it never happened is completely ludicrous, as claiming is about the most extreme act a player can take in a game of mafia, and one that is always dictated by intent and motive (i.e. the bread and butter of scumhunting).

Your alleged town motive is weak. A cop investigation can be avoided by playing to the town win condition during the day. Your scum motive is strong. There's only one way to avoid death in the long run upon being cop investigated as scum: by establishing a miller claim.

[izakthegoomba]

God, CTD is so town, it hurts.

[izakthegoomba]

^almost

[plenty]

There is another weakness to a true miller claim. It exposes the identity of the miller to the mafia, allowing them to arrange a mislynch against them, or persuade a vigilante to nightkilll them.
We have to consider the possibility that, if GhostWriter is a genuine miller, CrashTextDummie might be doing this.

[izakthegoomba]

Why would the mafia especially want a miller dead?

[plenty]

They would want an easy mislynch. They wouldn't want a miller dead any more than a vanilla townie.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, I see your point. I still disagree about CTD, though.

[Meransiel]

There is another weakness to a true miller claim. It exposes the identity of the miller to the mafia, allowing them to arrange a mislynch against them, or persuade a vigilante to nightkilll them.
We have to consider the possibility that, if GhostWriter is a genuine miller, CrashTextDummie might be doing this.

Pretty much the reason why I'm voting him, personally.

[David Xanatos]

CTD is a more than capable Scum player. In my eyes, he's playing the same as he did in The Death of ReaperCharlie.

And there are many ways to expose a false Miller claim.

That said, random vote from Ghostwriter is giggles.

[izakthegoomba]

So how do we expose a false miller claim, Xanatos?

[David Xanatos]

Many ways really.

Tracker's the most obvious. If they go anywhere, they're generally lying. This is best mid-late game where a scum fakeclaim would have to be performing the kill.

Watcher's another one, watch obvious mafia targets. If they appear, well...

Role-Cop, if we have one, does the obvious.

[Cobblerfone]

Hmm... I just realized that he's posted since, and has not made any comment on the Miller claim. I'm not sure whether that makes him town, scum, or just forgetful but it's interesting.

There's nothing worth saying about a miller claim. I believe him until proven wrong.

You were still voting him.

[izakthegoomba]

@Xanatos sure, if we have a Rolecop, they should definitely target him. The other two methods are unlikely to work unless the miller is the last scum - especially now you've said that.

[Cobblerfone]

@Xanatos sure, if we have a Rolecop, they should definitely target him. The other two methods are unlikely to work unless the miller is the last scum - especially now you've said that.

Well, you did ask him.

[izakthegoomba]

I did. Problem?

[David Xanatos]

Yes. Explaining things to catch people is counterproductive, and yet I pretty much had to because if I hadn't, I'd get hounded for it constantly. -_-

[izakthegoomba]

Well, I don't think scum would have their (hypothetical) claimed miller performing a kill unless he was the sole remaining scum, anyway.

[David Xanatos]

Or he's the sole remaining without another power. That's another feasible scenario.

[izakthegoomba]

Yes, I suppose so. But it depends whether the scum can use a factional kill AND a power in the same night, which varies from game to game.

[Meransiel]

Hmm... I just realized that he's posted since, and has not made any comment on the Miller claim. I'm not sure whether that makes him town, scum, or just forgetful but it's interesting.

There's nothing worth saying about a miller claim. I believe him until proven wrong.

You were still voting him.

I don't like to unvote when there's no good enough other target to put my vote on. Problem?

[TheJakalope]

I find it interesting that CTD is going on and on about how a miller claim is a well-known mafia tactic, yet he suggested a massclaim. However, I will agree, that he looks a lot more like defending himself then flailing. Not gonna take my vote off quite yet though.