Newbie 1315: Van Helsing (Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

Votecount 1.2

Spawnisen - 3 (kwll, awestfie, Superdeclan)
awestfie - 0
MP5 - 0
Superdeclan - 1 (serrapaladin)
FalconPunch - 0
serrapaladin - 1 (Nekoko)
kwll - 1 (MP5)
Nekoko - 2 (Ser Arthur Daye, Spawnisen)
Ser Arthur Dayne - 0

Not Voting - 0

[Superdeclan]

will elaborate tomorow I have to go to bed

[Superdeclan]

most of my reads are just instinctive, I told you before I hadnt noticed it started and I would have raised those points earlier if I had seen, I called SAD Arthur and that was null.
null really means i dont know, my bigest town read was kwll but it's not huge and besides it is my first game on forum mafia so my reads are not going to be 100% accurate serrapaldin is now slight scum because we are now out of RVS and his vote is still on me

@ serrapaldin

can you justify why you put your vote on me? saying that its because i doesnt do anything would mean that its better placed on spawn or nekoko

thats all I can think of for now

[Spawnisen]

Spawnisen
Right now, who do you think are suspicious?

kwll right now for the reason that he didn't spend enough time even trying to read my post but was just interested to keep going after me. I feel he is happy that the votes are all staying on me while he and his scum buddy stays out of the limelight.And after that I had explained my posts all he countered with asking if i was frustrated.

unvote
vote: kwll

[Nekoko]

What is your read on kwll please?

I feel he's a defensive newbie player.
I thought he was still joking in his posts #36 and #37
and he got frustrated that players suspected him
when he thought what he did was harmless.
Does anyone besides me can see that?
Right now my gut tells me he's newbie town.

[serrapaladin]

To address Nekoko's and Declan's concerns:

slight scum read on serrapaladin and slight town read on awestfie

I find it suspicious because he could have voted spawnisen but yet sticked with RVS and randomly voted Declan.
It's always better to end RVS as early as possible so that we could start with meaningful discussion.

"In post 48, serrapaladin wrote:
Also my vote isn't really doing anything, so:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Declan

until you get an avatar."

Votes could pressure a player and we could see useful reactions (if he's scum, his buddy too).
I'd be voting you because right now I'm most suspicious of you and I think RVS is over.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: serrapaladin

serrapaladin:
If you suspect both awestfie and Spawnisen, why is your vote still on Declan?
It's not doing anything because the reason is only fit for a RVS.

@ serrapaldin can you justify why you put your vote on me? saying that its because i doesnt do anything would mean that its better placed on spawn or nekoko

I disagree that my reason for voting Declan is purely RVS. Saying you don't like someone's avatar or username is RVS: you ultimately have no intention on putting pressure on them to change it. Currently, the thing I want most, from any of the players - even more so than further answers from Spawnisen - is for Declan to get an avatar, as it will make reading the thread much more convenient for all of us. My vote on him is to give him a slight pressure, even just a reminder, to get an avatar. As long as he doesn't, my vote stays on him; when he does, it will go off. There's nothing random about that.

I was by far not ready to lynch anyone and when I last posted/voted, I hadn't seen enough content from everyone to really gauge the situation. My reads have now developed a bit and I'll be posting those up later, perhaps tomorrow morning. Lastly, I agree with your assessment of votes being used to pressure someone for a reaction, but I feel our posts have gotten precisely the sort of reaction out of Spawnisen we should want this early in the game. You accusing me as wanting to remain in RVS seems off-putting, given that my posts were one of the major drivers to get us out RVS early. The thing about pressure is, it needs to be applied gradually. If we put someone at L-1 on page 2/3, we won't get the same range of reactions out of them, as if we start by asking probing questions and go from there. People will tend to be more honest if they are explaining, rather than defending themselves.

If you vehemently disagree with votes being used for meta-game purposes, I can live with that, but do explain to me,

Nekoko

, why you feel your vote is best placed on me, given your suspicion seems to be based upon our different approach to voting and we had similar questions for Spawnisen early in the game, to which we have had no satisfactory answers.

[serrapaladin]

Here's my summary of reads, so far:

awestfie:

I am somewhat satisfied with your last answer to me and make you out as slightly leaning town. I understand you wanting to pressure Spawnisen, but I think my point stands, that you probably shouldn't give your opinion on how potentially scummy behavior might be interpreted as town. Do you believe Spawnisen is scum?

Falcon:

My read so far is still null - awaiting your next post.

kwll:

I'm not particularly happy with your misread of Spawnisen's comment on Nekoko's voting, but I guess you have plausible deniability... Also, thanking Arthur for noticing your excited tone seems like a very smooth deflection of his insinuation that the reason for your excitement might be you being scum. Still, at the moment I'm inclined to believe you were genuinely excited to start a game, so I'll leave you as null before I see some analysis.

MP5:

I quite like the reads in your last post. Good catch on Spawnisen asserting you being a townie without necessary knowledge thereof. Leaning town.

Nekoko:

Not sure what to make of you pointing out flaws in Spawnisens's answers early on, but later saying you thought he might be joking. This kind of compounds the suspicion I had earlier of you subtly 'coaching' Spawnisen. Similar criticism as to awestfie implies: If you thought he might have been joking, why not probe for that answer, instead of laying it out? Could someone else comment on how her vote on me looks? (I'm obviously quite biased.) Slightly scum leaning, but a good explanation of your vote on me might convince me otherwise.

Arthur:

Good ICing, average content. You didn't add much to the case against Spawnisen, but your idea about kwll's excitement was quite original. I'll withdraw my concern about you pre-emptively giving him a slight scumread. Lack of content still has you standing at null.

Spawnisen:

The evidence against you is kind of piling up, which is never a good sign. I won't reiterate our full argument, but might dedicate a post to you later. So far, leaning scum. On a different note, could you give us some reads?

Declan:

I'd like for you to justify your reads a bit more. I also don't like you first piling on a vote on Spawnisen and then giving me a slight scumread after Nekoko made the same point. My vote on you is, as I replied to you and Nekoko, just a reminder to get an avatar, but the degree of bandwagoning gives you an ever so slight scumread.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

ok,read the posts

Spawnisen

is being really defensive, possibly a scumtell as I will show with the quotes below

You're reading too much into my answers right now.

I'm just confusing you all

vote:nekoko for being the first one to start stacking up votes on one person (Yes I'm aware that makes me the second guy...)

seems a bit wierd in my opinion

Hmm, this irks me a bit. I'm not sure why, but seems like he's just attempting to justify a bandwagon vote without much of...

anything

.

Seems like you're just nitpicking, and it's not really coming off as naturally, rather as artificially created to just justify your jump on Spawn.

(More content in a bit).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Awest

, your 53 does not seem to match up. A lot of what you state in it does not remotely justify your vote on Spawn...

Both of these:

A) You got defensive really quickly.
or
B) You feel like your pregame answers didn't matter all that much.

Are not alignment indicative at all. The former is more of a playstyle/personality, and can easily be associated with one who is easily intimidated or annoyed. The latter... well, makes it sound like Spawn belongs to a school of thought rather than he is actually doing something scummy.

I can understand your pressure vote I guess.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Accidentally posted before I finished typing <_<

Last sentence is supposed to be:

I can understand your vote as a pressure I guess, but seems like you just attempted to justify your vote with all this reasoning before voting so it seems like you believe in what you're doing and not just bandwagoning.

[Superdeclan]

cant get an avatar as all my imgs are too big

[FalconPunch]

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna need a replacement. There's some serious health issues in my family right now, and I'm too stressed out to focus.

[awestfie]

awestfie:

I am somewhat satisfied with your last answer to me and make you out as slightly leaning town. I understand you wanting to pressure Spawnisen, but I think my point stands, that you probably shouldn't give your opinion on how potentially scummy behavior might be interpreted as town. Do you believe Spawnisen is scum?

I'll post all my reads once I have a solid read on everyone, but, Spawnisen is currently my strongest scum-read, yes; his reply to everything have been somewhat lacking, and he's "reacting" badly to most of the things people have said. (Read: 65, 68)

Awest

, your 53 does not seem to match up. A lot of what you state in it does not remotely justify your vote on Spawn...

Both of these:

A) You got defensive really quickly.
or
B) You feel like your pregame answers didn't matter all that much.

Are not alignment indicative at all. The former is more of a playstyle/personality, and can easily be associated with one who is easily intimidated or annoyed. The latter... well, makes it sound like Spawn belongs to a school of thought rather than he is actually doing something scummy.

I can understand your vote as a pressure I guess, but seems like you just attempted to justify your vote with all this reasoning before voting so it seems like you believe in what you're doing and not just bandwagoning.

The first reason I pushed on Spawnisen in the first place was because of his dodgy answers, which I already commented on. (Read: 50, 53)

Like I said, he either got defensive extremely quickly, which he did, might I add. Or, he didn't feel like his pregame answers didn't matter all that much, which.. for the record, he came in on Post 65 saying that he didn't think his pregame answers didn't matter all that much, so, instead of being an "or" it should have be an "and" - because, I expected his reply to the push to be extremely defensive; and so did I expect him to say that his pregame answers wouldn't matter all that much. Why? Like I said, it's his first game on here, and he probably be thought those answers wouldn't go into the actual game.

As for my vote, I already saw him leaning scum, when my vote was on him, and I had already explained that I didn't like 2 of his posts; (Read: 36, 37.) I was trying to get a reaction out of Spawnisen; and we got one, and it wasn't particularly a good reaction. (Read: 65, 68.)

[Spawnisen]

will elaborate tomorow I have to go to bed

Here's my summary of reads, so far:

awestfie:

I am somewhat satisfied with your last answer to me and make you out as slightly leaning town. I understand you wanting to pressure Spawnisen, but I think my point stands, that you probably shouldn't give your opinion on how potentially scummy behavior might be interpreted as town. Do you believe Spawnisen is scum?

Falcon:

My read so far is still null - awaiting your next post.

kwll:

I'm not particularly happy with your misread of Spawnisen's comment on Nekoko's voting, but I guess you have plausible deniability... Also, thanking Arthur for noticing your excited tone seems like a very smooth deflection of his insinuation that the reason for your excitement might be you being scum. Still, at the moment I'm inclined to believe you were genuinely excited to start a game, so I'll leave you as null before I see some analysis.

MP5:

I quite like the reads in your last post. Good catch on Spawnisen asserting you being a townie without necessary knowledge thereof. Leaning town.

Nekoko:

Not sure what to make of you pointing out flaws in Spawnisens's answers early on, but later saying you thought he might be joking. This kind of compounds the suspicion I had earlier of you subtly 'coaching' Spawnisen. Similar criticism as to awestfie implies: If you thought he might have been joking, why not probe for that answer, instead of laying it out? Could someone else comment on how her vote on me looks? (I'm obviously quite biased.) Slightly scum leaning, but a good explanation of your vote on me might convince me otherwise.

Arthur:

Good ICing, average content. You didn't add much to the case against Spawnisen, but your idea about kwll's excitement was quite original. I'll withdraw my concern about you pre-emptively giving him a slight scumread. Lack of content still has you standing at null.

Spawnisen:

The evidence against you is kind of piling up, which is never a good sign. I won't reiterate our full argument, but might dedicate a post to you later. So far, leaning scum. On a different note, could you give us some reads?

Declan:

I'd like for you to justify your reads a bit more. I also don't like you first piling on a vote on Spawnisen and then giving me a slight scumread after Nekoko made the same point. My vote on you is, as I replied to you and Nekoko, just a reminder to get an avatar, but the degree of bandwagoning gives you an ever so slight scumread.

Declan: Where is your elaboration which you promised yesterday? I feel you, as well as kwll are concentrating on the wrong issues and are both kinda fuzzy with whatever you're answered and what not.

Nekoko: I'm leaning towards scum on you, you pushed a little the bandwagon on me but later backed off a little, kinda makes it look like so you have your feet off the water if I would've turned up town. And the only reason you would know that is if you're mafia.

awestfie: I feel is leaning towards town, mostly just because he seems to be able to think logically from my POV and doesn't jump into something headfirst without thinking.

serra: content with all your posts even if you're suspicous of me, but i guess you have the right to be. Townie for me

That's all I have for now, need to sleep!

[MP5]

@Declan, OK I missed that you called him Arthur, for some reason I only counted seven players not eight, and I thought you might have missed one. Your inconsistency and reasonings are BS to me though.

Ok, ,here's my reads I played some epic mafia games so I've got an idea
spawn: leaning scum My reasons are in my last post
Kwll: null, leaning town just a gut feeling, He's also been quite active
Awestfie not sure slightly town
Mp5 null
Falcon not a clue
Serapaldin Lening town
Arthur null
Nekoko null

Will get Avatar when I get home as I'm on IPad ATM

most of my reads are just instinctive, I told you before I hadnt noticed it started and I would have raised those points earlier if I had seen, I called SAD Arthur and that was null.
null really means i dont know, my bigest town read was kwll but it's not huge and besides it is my first game on forum mafia so my reads are not going to be 100% accurate serrapaldin is now slight scum because we are now out of RVS and his vote is still on me

@ serrapaldin

can you justify why you put your vote on me? saying that its because i doesnt do anything would mean that its better placed on spawn or nekoko

thats all I can think of for now

First, direct question

declan

- why did your read of paladin change between posts 70 and 77? He didn't post once during this time, or give you any other reason to change your read.

Second, and you're not the only person to do this - but ever since SAD posted about "gut" reads early on, some think it is OK to just give a gut feel about someone. You've given nothing in your first post, despite asserting that you've "got an idea". Please expand and give reasons, because just saying "null" or "I think town" about everyone is not at all helpful.

Thirdly, why wouldn't your reads be 100% accurate? You've said null about almost everyone, seems accurate enough to me, albeit useless. It sounds like you are trying to plant an excuse for your future play here as well which is an indicator that you are scum trying to avoid any future trouble for being wrong. And, the only way that you would know that your reads aren't going to be 100% accurate is if you are scum, because you have to falsify a scum read on someone. If you're town, it is possible that you could correctly pick the scum players and keep to those reads.

But most importantly, your reasoning doesn't hold up. Why is "he's also been quite active" a town-tell on kwll? This is not alignment-indicative, and in fact up to this point I would say that paladin had been more active, and there were several other players that could also fit quite vaguely into a generic "been quite active" description, including Spawn.

The part I am most concerned about is that you are trying to push paladin's vote off you. Why are you so scared of a vote? And why does it make paladin scum for leaving it there? I've seen enough to warrant a change, kwll gets a break.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Superdeclan

As for getting an avatar, I'm sure there must be several places on the internet (can't be bothered looking myself) to download some. Me, I just went into Paint, chose some text and wrote my name, then resized the image until it was small enough. It's not that difficult.

@Falcon

- sorry to hear that. Hoping that whatever it is improves/gets better/passes/whatever is relevant here.

[MP5]

@Declan, OK I missed that you called him Arthur, for some reason I only counted seven players not eight, and I thought you might have missed one. Your inconsistency and reasonings are BS to me though.

Ok, ,here's my reads I played some epic mafia games so I've got an idea
spawn: leaning scum My reasons are in my last post
Kwll: null, leaning town just a gut feeling, He's also been quite active
Awestfie not sure slightly town
Mp5 null
Falcon not a clue
Serapaldin Lening town
Arthur null
Nekoko null

Will get Avatar when I get home as I'm on IPad ATM

most of my reads are just instinctive, I told you before I hadnt noticed it started and I would have raised those points earlier if I had seen, I called SAD Arthur and that was null.
null really means i dont know, my bigest town read was kwll but it's not huge and besides it is my first game on forum mafia so my reads are not going to be 100% accurate serrapaldin is now slight scum because we are now out of RVS and his vote is still on me

@ serrapaldin

can you justify why you put your vote on me? saying that its because i doesnt do anything would mean that its better placed on spawn or nekoko

thats all I can think of for now

First, direct question

declan

- why did your read of paladin change between posts 70 and 77? He didn't post once during this time, or give you any other reason to change your read.

Second, and you're not the only person to do this - but ever since SAD posted about "gut" reads early on, some think it is OK to just give a gut feel about someone. You've given nothing in your first post, despite asserting that you've "got an idea". Please expand and give reasons, because just saying "null" or "I think town" about everyone is not at all helpful.

Thirdly, why wouldn't your reads be 100% accurate? You've said null about almost everyone, seems accurate enough to me, albeit useless. It sounds like you are trying to plant an excuse for your future play here as well which is an indicator that you are scum trying to avoid any future trouble for being wrong. And, the only way that you would know that your reads aren't going to be 100% accurate is if you are scum, because you have to falsify a scum read on someone. If you're town, it is possible that you could correctly pick the scum players and keep to those reads.

But most importantly, your reasoning doesn't hold up. Why is "he's also been quite active" a town-tell on kwll? This is not alignment-indicative, and in fact up to this point I would say that paladin had been more active, and there were several other players that could also fit quite vaguely into a generic "been quite active" description, including Spawn.

The part I am most concerned about is that you are trying to push paladin's vote off you. Why are you so scared of a vote? And why does it make paladin scum for leaving it there? I've seen enough to warrant a change, kwll gets a break.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Superdeclan

As for getting an avatar, I'm sure there must be several places on the internet (can't be bothered looking myself) to download some. Me, I just went into Paint, chose some text and wrote my name, then resized the image until it was small enough. It's not that difficult.

@Falcon

- sorry to hear that. Hoping that whatever it is improves/gets better/passes/whatever is relevant here.

[MP5]

EBWOP - sorry for the double post. Having issues with my internet connection dropping out at the moment.

[MP5]

Nekoko: I'm leaning towards scum on you, you pushed a little the bandwagon on me but later backed off a little, kinda makes it look like so you have your feet off the water if I would've turned up town. And the only reason you would know that is if you're mafia.

awestfie: I feel is leaning towards town, mostly just because he seems to be able to think logically from my POV and doesn't jump into something headfirst without thinking.

I'm curious about these two. What does "if I would've turned up town" mean? That you won't actually turn up town? And also, how is logical thinking and choosing caution before becoming decisive indicative of alignment?

FWIW, I think Spawn for his earlier slips (and this possible one), and declan are my two biggest scum reads now. I would probably be voting more towards Spawn, but for the fact he is already at L-2 and I don't want to put someone at L-1 without having any pressure or questioning on anybody else. However, they both seem quite newb to me, I suspect I'm probably wrong on one of them as I don't see them as a team together given how they've gone after each other. Still several players I'm keeping an eye on.

[serrapaladin]

Declan: any image search should give you the option to search for images of a certain size. If you want a personalized one, something like Photoshop or GIMP will allow you to re-size images.

Falcon: Sorry to hear that, I hope it all turns out well.

Spawnisen: PLEASE stop implying you're town...Your read on Nekoko is worthless for now, because it implicitly relies on you actually being town. As far as we're concerned, your default probability of being scum is 2/9, and some of your answers haven't really improved that. Still, it's good to see some reads from you.

MP5

: Between posts 70 and 77, Nekoko put her vote on me and Declan sheeped (see my read of him). Could I ask you how their read on me looks to you?

[MP5]

MP5

: Between posts 70 and 77, Nekoko put her vote on me and Declan sheeped (see my read of him). Could I ask you how their read on me looks to you?

Good question, Nekoko I am a little wary of given his (I want to say her because of the avatar, I feel confused -

Nekoko

may I please ask your gender?) tone which sounds a little emotional or pleading in post 79 when I asked for a read on kwll - "Does anyone besides me can see that?" I wasn't too suspicious of the vote on you, IMO it wasn't a particularly good vote because I don't agree with the reasoning but it wasn't something I felt too bad about either as the reasoning isn't false or contrived. However, (s)he has lurked quite a lot and not committed to many reads, most posts have lacked substance.

@Nekoko

- what are your reads on Spawnisen and myself please? And what do you think about declan sheeping you? And if you can volunteer anything you get on anybody else that would be appreciated as well, but that should cover most of the most active posters to date.

As for declan sheeping on to you paladin, he uses the exact same reasoning as Nekoko. If Nekoko is in a scum team with declan, (s)he'd have every right to feel very nervous at this point. I'd go further than you and say it's a solid scum tell rather than just slight, he hasn't come up with anything original so far.

If declan flips scum, Spawn may just get a break, I'd be looking at Nekoko next.

[Superdeclan]

my internet was wonky yesterday, enough for a small post but not a large one

we have very little info on day 1 so all I can really do is nitpick. I still belive spawnsien is leaning scum a bit, more than anyone else

The reason my read changed on serrapaldin was that he had not put in any content in the space of a day but you have had more content posts, still not sure though.

kwll was online yesterday but didnt post anything, he might have had internet troubles or something else

@ kwll why didnt you post anything yesterday? also your posts have been very short, is it because

I am not a very good writer

or is it lurking? I also want to know your reads

I really have no idea why I put a town read on kwll and then said that it was my biggest something must have gone wrong with my brain 2 days in a row. not quite a scum read yet but I want content today or tomorrow. The very fact i said leming town means that I wasnt thinking straight.

everyone else has been totally null really, with only slight swings.

[Superdeclan]

bad code

[MP5]

The reason my read changed on serrapaldin was that he had not put in any content in the space of a day but you have had more content posts, still not sure though.

kwll was online yesterday but didnt post anything, he might have had internet troubles or something else

@ kwll why didnt you post anything yesterday? also your posts have been very short, is it because

I am not a very good writer

or is it lurking? I also want to know your reads

I really have no idea why I put a town read on kwll and then said that it was my biggest something must have gone wrong with my brain 2 days in a row. not quite a scum read yet but I want content today or tomorrow. The very fact i said leming town means that I wasnt thinking straight.

everyone else has been totally null really, with only slight swings.

(posting from my phone)
Those are some sucky scum hunting questions declan, how is the answer either way going to help? Unless kwll comes on and says "yes I was lurking because I'm scum", his answers will not be alignment indicative at all.

So which of your reads can we trust as genuine and which are you switching off your brain? And going from town read to scum in one day without any content is a big swing, not a slight one.

[Superdeclan]

it was very slight both ways and i can assure you that I'll bee feeling better tommorow when i return to school

[serrapaladin]

UNVOTE:

Declan

, in posts 58 and 62 I mention I will be travelling and might not get to post until today. You sheeped Nekoko to scum read on me, claiming my vote on you as a reason. I explain myself and suddenly your reason is me not posting for a day, which I had given warning of. That's doesn't look good, given your activity at times.

Speaking of hypocrisy,

Nekoko,

how do you feel about Arthur vote still being on you?