Mafiascum.net

↑ Voidedmafia wrote:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Got into a real twist over me not giving out my reads, like they matter so damn much, this makes me feel scum here, cause even though they matter they don't matter to the point that you need them in here (especially when my posts kinda give my reads anyway), my thought here is scum because scum NEEDS to know the reads so they know who is gonna be better to gamble on for trying to lynch.

I won't deny this assumption could be true from your PoV, however, isn't it also true that having clear-cut reads that people can see is better than reads that can be implied from your postings?

If you're town and don't set your reads out for us to see it leaves the rest of the town (or the other townie, in this game) potentially confused by where you really stand (and IMO that confusion is not worth the potential of doing it to scum as well) and depending on how good or bad you set your implications they can get the wrong message, either through misinterpretation or through finding a link that you may not have intended to make, or a couple other things.

If you're scum then yeah, it serves to keep town confused as to what exactly you think, and I suppose that depending on who we're talking about you could get away with it, but even as scum it doesn't seem like a good risk to me.

Overall, it just doesn't seem like a very pro-town motive to do what you're saying, and more pro-town to do what I suggested.

Also, having something tangible out there behind your suspicions that people can see (and/or respond to, if necessary) helps, too.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:I'm gonna give in on the reads now, reaction testing is always fun

implying you're doing more reactiontests?

REACTIONCEPTION!*coughcough*

Varsoon wrote:You kinda made the meat of your post already, so I have no qualms coming out with what I was holding back earlier.

First things first.
I mentioned holding something back to see how safely you'd post. If you were scum, me saying that I had sensitive information/reads/insight would be something you'd definitely play to, in some way.
From this, I'm reading you as town. Why?
You made the most town play by bringing up that I might be scum waiting for a cross-vote. Perceptive town would be able to notice this, and speak to the possibility of it. By setting up a post with "I won't say anything specific but I've got something important to say once the other play comes in", I'm basically asking for this sort of analysis to be made, somehow. Scum might also point this out, but they'd put it against me. Jason immediately spoke to it in two posts, but what unsettled me is that it seemed like he was setting up for you to say something bigger about it when he said I might be called out. It was like a nudge to see how you'd react, and I don't know if that was either a slip on his part or an intentional test of sorts. Anyway, I made sure to leave just enough in my posts for scum to make a groundless case against me, hoping that you'd be scum and I'd catch you in my trap, but you responded in a very town way (calling attention to it without antagonism). I hope this makes sense, haha, it's a bit convoluted on the screen.

Anyway, there was actually info that I was holding onto, and even hinted at earlier, and it's that I was reading Jason as scummier than you, but that the ultimate swing depended on your vote to prove if you were lurking, buying time, etc. You could have easily made your post at the last minute and forced town into a game of wits with only a few hours on the clock, but you didn't. You did the most town thing possible by posting as early as you did. Furthermore, your reactions were solidly town to me. You pointed out a line that felt wrong to me since I read it--the one Jason made in post 68. While Jason seemed like impatient town to me for a long time, him specifically calling you out as the person he'd lock heads with while building up antagonism towards you (the player not present to defend himself at the time) all seemed like scum manipulating town towards a mislynch. Your point about his suspicions not being tangible is another big one that I wanted to make if you didn't, especially in the case of posts 68, 14, 35, 13. Most of his really strong reactions aren't built off of substantial evidence, and while they may be reaction testing, he also often backed off on earlier accusations made against me (at least) without pushing the testing far enough.

The real thing that threw me off is that he has us both on the ground that either of us could be scum, but with a strong lean towards you. To me, it felt like a scum play to position me against you since I'd been in direct conversation with him in this game so long. However, by still having a cautious, maybe-scum read on me, he could backpedal if you made a strong case against me in your post. You didn't, and I'm interested to see who he says is scum now that I've posted all of this.

Regardless, I'm heavily leaning towards him being scum, but not ruling out that you could be, either. I have much more substantial and evidenced reads on Jason, though, and I'd put a vote on him in good faith. Regardless, if anyone puts a vote down before Jason responds to all this, they're going to have a lot of explaining to do.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:So because i did something that you don't find HELPFUL, and just implying my reads KINDA OBVIOUSLY you had to continue bitch fitting it out that i wasn't posting reads?

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Implying that the holding back my reads WAS a reaction test, you know the thing that you got so annoyed at and fought hard.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Also can you butter everyone's ass up more?

↑ Varsoon wrote:
That's a pretty harsh reaction,

but it does do a good job of showing how town you are.

Sorry, just trying to get the ball rolling. We don't have time to sit around and do nothing.

↑ Varsoon wrote:
Still, I don't want the time issue to make us over-rush things. We should be really sure about who we lynch. I'd rather not risk a mislynch on something that isn't substantial, or a fluke.

↑ Varsoon wrote:
Because I feel like every lynch should have a purpose behind it--it shouldn't just be people lynching based on minor speculation or quick-hammering a scum-suspect. Even if scum flips, if it was just a fluke, sure, town wins, but it's not definitive, just luck. It'd be the equivalent of rolling a six-sided die and hoping for a five or a six right now. I feel the purpose of the game is to deduce who is scum, rather than take stabs in the dark.

↑ Varsoon wrote:
Anyway, I think that, regardless of what happens, we shouldn't park votes and if anyone does get a vote put on them, they should be given a chance to make their case before they get lynched. This'll keep town from lynching town.

↑ Varsoon wrote:
Jason, I feel like your responses are really genuine, but I don't know if I should read your day-1 opinion of me as trying to start a wagon or not. For now, you're leaning town to me.

Voided, I don't know how to feel about you yet. I'm not going to say you're sitting back and letting us two go back and forth, but that's really what it feels like and I'd like to get a better read than that sort of speculation.

↑ Varsoon wrote:You kinda made the meat of your post already, so I have no qualms coming out with what I was holding back earlier.

First things first.
I mentioned holding something back to see how safely you'd post. If you were scum, me saying that I had sensitive information/reads/insight would be something you'd definitely play to, in some way.
From this, I'm reading you as town. Why?
You made the most town play by bringing up that I might be scum waiting for a cross-vote. Perceptive town would be able to notice this, and speak to the possibility of it. By setting up a post with "I won't say anything specific but I've got something important to say once the other play comes in", I'm basically asking for this sort of analysis to be made, somehow. Scum might also point this out, but they'd put it against me. Jason immediately spoke to it in two posts, but what unsettled me is that it seemed like he was setting up for you to say something bigger about it when he said I might be called out. It was like a nudge to see how you'd react, and I don't know if that was either a slip on his part or an intentional test of sorts. Anyway, I made sure to leave just enough in my posts for scum to make a groundless case against me, hoping that you'd be scum and I'd catch you in my trap, but you responded in a very town way (calling attention to it without antagonism). I hope this makes sense, haha, it's a bit convoluted on the screen.

Anyway, there was actually info that I was holding onto, and even hinted at earlier, and it's that I was reading Jason as scummier than you, but that the ultimate swing depended on your vote to prove if you were lurking, buying time, etc. You could have easily made your post at the last minute and forced town into a game of wits with only a few hours on the clock, but you didn't. You did the most town thing possible by posting as early as you did. Furthermore, your reactions were solidly town to me. You pointed out a line that felt wrong to me since I read it--the one Jason made in post 68. While Jason seemed like impatient town to me for a long time, him specifically calling you out as the person he'd lock heads with while building up antagonism towards you (the player not present to defend himself at the time) all seemed like scum manipulating town towards a mislynch. Your point about his suspicions not being tangible is another big one that I wanted to make if you didn't, especially in the case of posts 68, 14, 35, 13. Most of his really strong reactions aren't built off of substantial evidence, and while they may be reaction testing, he also often backed off on earlier accusations made against me (at least) without pushing the testing far enough.

↑ Varsoon wrote:Didn't I just say not to drop a vote on anyone?

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Ass Kissing

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Self survival

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Big speech meant to convince me not to vote him on a limb, so more survivalistic shit.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Scum perspective and trying to give himself more wiggle room

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Nice little way to give him backflip room

↑ JasonWazza wrote:This is total crap, I mean come on, if you were scum you wouldn't approach it any other way cause, either he is bluffing or his mind is already made up.

↑ JasonWazza wrote: but then saying that line was part of some master plan to make you vote him is a massive load of BS, your actting like that would make you vote before Voided talked when you were the one specifically saying town should give time, why would he vote immediately? cause he is the scum butt

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Even this reads survivalistic as all fuck

↑ Varsoon wrote:I'll respond when I've got more time, Jason

↑ Varsoon wrote:Although it's really not looking like I'll have much to work with since you're putting me so on the defensive with all this rather than defending yourself.

↑ Voidedmafia wrote:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Scum perspective and trying to give himself more wiggle room

Where is the scum perspective?

Anyway, I think that, regardless of what happens, we shouldn't park votes and if anyone does get a vote put on them, they should be given a chance to make their case before they get lynched. This'll keep town from lynching town.

↑ JasonWazza wrote:Question, why are you giving intent?