Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Miss Stranger]

Genuine question: what is backseat scumhunting and is it a good thing?

[Gen_Wolf]

Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post. I have to agree, from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.

Jumped to the first person who gave you any backing. Do you have any evidence of your other accusations?

I would say jump to is a bit harsh. I said he appreciated my post? You are trying to make something appear that is not quite there.

Feel It

, you are contributing and I wholeheartedly agree that

Gen_Wolf

is scummy. You are totally right about him. All that makes me uncomfortable was that first you blatantly accused me of hopping, and then it's like it never happened. See, like this:

Feel It: Changing your vote so much? I'm changing mine on you.
Gen_Wolf: You want to edit your posts? Changing votes? Lynch.
Fegel: She's fine with 3 votes.
Gen_Wolf: No, she's scum. Lynch her now and don't bother with D1, we'll have one less scum on D2.
Fegel: No.
Me: I didn't change votes, first one was totally random. I didn't scumslip, I just didn't want to doublepost.
Feel It: Miss, that's reasonable. I'm unvoting. OMG Gen_Wolf, you basically claimed mafia.

See what I mean? If I got lynched, you'd both look bad for pushing me for no real reason. Now if

Gen_Wolf

gets lynched as town, everyone would just know he was scummy as hell and you,

Feel It

, would pass under the radar. That's not to say I'm sure you're scum, hell

Gen_Wolf

IS painfully scummy, but you still definitely are on my suspect list should he flip town.

Other than my post on your Miss Stranger, what else do you have?

In post 54, Gen_Wolf wrote:
In post 46, Feel It wrote:
VOTE: Gen_Wolf

I'm not satisfied with his explanation that he wasn't serious, it was an odd and anti-town comment. I looked at some of his other games and I didn't seem him act like that.


If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.
Define nice. And what was the reaction test? Was I supposed to look like a panicked scum if I were scum, or was the scum supposed to take your words literally that you actually want to lynch me before half the players have posted, and use them to make you look scummy, which is what Feel It did?

I took this one out out your monster post Miss Stranger. No, that was not the intention. The name is quite straight forward, it is a reaction test to see how people react. Whether they vote for you or shy away from you or whether they ignore it all together. Its to see someones reaction?

[Miss Stranger]

You know what, screw bolding, can't be bothered anymore.

Other than my post on your Miss Stranger, what else do you have?

Subtle expressions. Jump scare at Nacho, overdefensiveness, more of a survival attitude rather than analystic. That sort of things definitely adds up to form a bigger picture.

Define nice. And what was the reaction test? Was I supposed to look like a panicked scum if I were scum, or was the scum supposed to take your words literally that you actually want to lynch me before half the players have posted, and use them to make you look scummy, which is what Feel It did?

I took this one out out your monster post Miss Stranger. No, that was not the intention. The name is quite straight forward, it is a reaction test to see how people react. Whether they vote for you or shy away from you or whether they ignore it all together. Its to see someones reaction?

Well, so far you've only elaborated on FI's reaction. What about mine and Fegel's?

If I got lynched, you'd both look bad for pushing me for no real reason. Now if

Gen_Wolf

gets lynched as town, everyone would just know he was scummy as hell and you,

Feel It

, would pass under the radar. That's not to say I'm sure you're scum, hell

Gen_Wolf

IS painfully scummy, but you still definitely are on my suspect list should he flip town.

Yeah, if Gen got lynched and he flipped town I would very likely be lynched d2, but even then it doesn't really make sense. If I was a maf, why would i draw attention to myself and push a lynch on a guy who was passing under the radar, who I knew was innocent, and when he got lynched and flipped town everyone would be after my blood? It's illogical and bad mafia play, I'm only changing my vote and pushing against Gen_Wolf because he seems the most scummy to me.

This argument works in both directions. You aren't the only one who's digging on GW (seeing how Generic shares your suspicions, as well as I to a degree), and I wouldn't suspect you *just* because you started an easy lynch on a scummy townie. That's not what bothers me most. You just seem to have a conviction to lynch GW and ignore everybody unrelated to the discussion.

[Generic]

On the flip side not participating and making a point of saying I won't makes me stand out more. And now you are telling me I have to choose someone in the RVS just to show participation, that's you setting rules to lynch people by, not me. I chose to ignore a phase that was already done and paranoia phase was starting, why turn up late to a party that's already starting to descend into a fight and shout "WHO WANTS TO DANCE!?"

Where I see links generally are when a couple if people think they have something they can exploit to try and push through a mislynch. Two of you really have got issues with my opening post, yet one of you has held off voting me instantly. Would that make it too obvious I wonder.

I have opening suspects, feel free to assume OMGUS btw, but I want to see what you have for your next trick.

I never told you you had to vote for somebody. All I have done is question your motive behind not voting for somebody. Your current explanation just isn't very good.

Can you please clarify which 2 people you are referring to?

And you never did explain your erratic sleeping patterns.

The opening suspects mulled when I got to a laptop and could read posts more thoroughly. Nacho and champ were my two, but both of you have strong town comments beyond the tunnelled reads I had made based only on comments to me. It's early days, I will do this for a bit until people start showing consistent tells one way of another.

And what erratic sleep pattern?

[Generic]

Mulled = nulled

[Generic]

Before I isolate Generic's comments on me I wanted to point out that Miss Stranger didn't actually edit a post. You can't edit a post on this site. So no need to wonder what she actually edited. She actually says this in post #12.

...
Champinoman – Nice opening RVS vote. backs gen wolfs post #20 even though all explanation to it was shocking. Attempts to put the focus on feel it,

but the stick he uses to beat him with is that he voted for miss stranger over the scummier gen wolf... the same gen wolf he liked the post of at the start of this analysis opener

. From there the analysis gets stronger, and i like both his pressure on me and his equal pressure on nachomamma. Thats not picking a side, thats analysing both our starts to get to a conclusion of who is up to what. Next post is a total focus on me because he clearly isn’t happy with what i have said OR has seen an opportunity to push on something specific, either way he has reverted from a measured view of the back and forth to picking a side quite easily. Interesting buddying process going on there.
Had a strong town lean followed by a scummy focusing post. Need a bit more from him to know whether he leans town or mafia, but based on a strong analytical post there is promise there so leaning town.
...

The underlined section has been misinterpreted by you. My interpretation of Gen_Wolf's post #20 is irrelevant in this instant. I was referring to the way Feel It had interpreted it.

It's apparent you clearly don't like me asking you to justify your words though.

You have also said I have picked a side. And that there is buddying going on. Can you please show me where I have done this?

(Unrelated: Impressive post from a phone Generic!)

I think it's when you abandoned the comments to both of us and focused on pressing negatives on me.

I'm a sensitive soul but seriously, I think that was cos I was in the zone and firing off thoughts, if I read you wrong it will show over time won't it. My read on you at this point is leaning town, but you may move either way in my mind from here.... I will call it as I see it, if I'm wrong I will likely be the only one who reads the content in that way.

[Generic]

I'll get onto my reads, I had a full post written up but then I had pressed the post preview, server timed out and my post vanished -_-

Anyhow questions:

Fegelin: Why would you be suspicious of nacho asking questions? It's highly encouraged at this phase to suck the living information out of people.

Generic & Feel It: I want to know why you think that Champin & Gen Wolf are buddying/white knighting. Please enlighten me with quotes on the reasons supporting it.

unrelated to the questionings: nice sarcastic remark on lynching Ms. Stranger gen wolf huehue.

Will rewrite my reads later when I have more time @_@

Champ isn't so much buddying as gen wolf, it was how champ liked what gen wolf said even though the explanations attached to it were all over the place. But champ qualified he liked what the post sparked from other players, not the content itself and I accepted that answer. Gen wolf leapt on the supposed compliment like it qualified what he was saying... Which it didn't. At present it's floundering mafia dining off scraps from a potentially town player.

[Generic]

Forgive me if there are more questions I need to answer, I am being bombarded with questions... Anyone else playing this or is it just me? :p

[Miss Stranger]

@Generic:

please refer to my "monster" post #68.

Sorry, I'm quite interested in the game, but no one was active and I was kind of busy making dinner, so I just absently refreshed page from time to time.

[Feel It]

Not too much else to say. Interesting note on Fegelein jabbing Nachomamma8 then putting his vote on him. Antagon and James May have done the same while others take the pressure, very likely to be a maf hiding between them.

[Nachomamma8]

But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.

I agree with this. Especially since this:

Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE.

Doesn't really explain it that well.

If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.

What was his reaction and what did you get from it?

Yes I am very serious. Just because you have more posts does not make you more involved. It could just mean your posting more fluff.

That's true, but it's a useless statement unless he IS posting more fluff, which you're sort of indirectly hinting at but not actually saying.

I liked Generic's #61. I feel those sorts of things are overkill on page 3, but my perception of him as passive, coasting scum is clearly wrong.

It's also worth to note however that I also find Feel It oportunistic, but so was Gen_Wolf's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.

Why just one?

He's sort of sitting back and just asking questions instead of providing real counter arguments against people.

Explain.

You know what, screw bolding, can't be bothered anymore.

(thank god)

[Feel It]

Holy crap, it's a paragraph fest already :/. I sort of scrolled through it though, have the basic idea of what's going on.

I voted James May because RVS. My read on him atm is null, leaning scum because of lack of contributions and his first post was backseat scumhunting.

As for Nacho, I think he might be scum. He's sort of sitting back and just asking questions instead of providing real counter arguments against people.

It might just be me, but Gen_Wolf isn't that scummy.

Generic is Null.

Champinoman is Town to me.

Miss Stranger could go either way, leaning Town.

Feel It could go either way too, finding it hard to get a read on him.

UNVOTE: James May
VOTE: Nachomamma8

I noticed you made a comment on everyone except Antagon, why is that? You also said very early into the game that he's probably town, what made you say that?

[Feel It]

But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.

I agree with this. Especially since this:

Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE.

Doesn't really explain it that well.

At first I simply thought it was a mistake due to newness but then I saw he was an SE on the front page so it probably wasn't a mistake which made me suspicious, then i went and looked through some of his other games and the comment still didn't sit well with his play style and it rubbed me the wrong way till I decided I wanted to put a vote on him.

[Miss Stranger]

But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.

I agree with this. Especially since this:

Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE.

Doesn't really explain it that well.

I agree, but I don't think it's too great of a red flag. He could be telling the truth, or he could be covering a more awkward reason than negligence. Or it could be a slip. I think we're overanalysing it, since all we can do is baselessly speculate.

If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.

Could be just guilty conscience about vote hopping too much right after he blamed me for it. Although it really sits even more ill/awkward/scummy if he admits that's the truth. Or again, I could be overanalysing.
What was his reaction and what did you get from it?

Already addressed in post

#54

("from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.") Did you deliberately omit that post and why?

Yes I am very serious. Just because you have more posts does not make you more involved. It could just mean your posting more fluff.

That's true, but it's a useless statement unless he IS posting more fluff, which you're sort of indirectly hinting at but not actually saying.

I liked Generic's #61. I feel those sorts of things are overkill on page 3, but my perception of him as passive, coasting scum is clearly wrong.

I definitely agree he's not a passive scum, was just a little restrained at first. I like his comprehensive analysis, but I find some alarming conclusions in it, which is why I can't yet pinpoint him as town.

It's also worth to note however that I also find Feel It oportunistic, but so was Gen_Wolf's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.

Why just one?

Because it sounds pretty counterinituitive to me for both to be scum. FI won't get too much town credit if GW gets lynched and revealed as mafia, and neither would GW in the opposite event. I don't think the end justifies the means.

You know what, screw bolding, can't be bothered anymore.

(thank god)

Well... I'm sorry? :/

Bullshit rationalisation: nicknames like "Feel It" that read like actual phrases just make sentences sound bad. I wanted nicknames to read like obvious nicknames.

[Miss Stranger]

Damn. Messed up the second quote box. Sorry.

[Miss Stranger]

"Could be just guilty conscience about vote hopping too much right after he blamed me for it. Although it really sits even more ill/awkward/scummy if he admits that's the truth. Or again, I could be overanalysing." should go to the analysis of the former box.

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Gen Wolf

I think that Generic's response to pressure has been excellent; my original problem with him was that I thought he was trying to justify not providing analysis by claiming that he was afraid that everything he did would be taken as a joke and dismissed, but his recent analysis has blown that point out of the water. I also thought that his initial suspicion of me had very nice trajectory; the kneejerk response caused by OMGUS, that was slowly whittled away during the course of our exchange and ended up being leaning town, but not that town.

Miss Stranger is also becoming a strong townread as well. I like her response to pressure, and I like that she hasn't immediately jumped on her attackers even though she probably could have. I think she'd do well to place a vote down and be a little more aggressive, but the start is good.

UNVOTE: Antagon.

Vote is on hold until we get some input from other players. My current analysis:
Fegelein: leaning town
Feel It: null
Gen_Wolf: scummy
Antagon: null

Do you remember why Fegelein was a townread here?

Champianoman and Feel It are also town.

[Nachomamma8]

Already addressed in post #54 ("from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.") Did you deliberately omit that post and why?

Nope, definitely missed that one. Although now that you bring it up, I'm curious what you think of it. I think it's inaccurate and OMGUS-y.

I definitely agree he's not a passive scum, was just a little restrained at first. I like his comprehensive analysis, but I find some alarming conclusions in it, which is why I can't yet pinpoint him as town.

What alarming conclusions? Why does it matter that he's drawn different conclusions than you have as long as the way he gets there makes sense?

Because it sounds pretty counterinituitive to me for both to be scum. FI won't get too much town credit if GW gets lynched and revealed as mafia, and neither would GW in the opposite event. I don't think the end justifies the means.

Interesting. Why do they need town credit when one is lynched in order to be mafia together?

[Miss Stranger]

Miss Stranger is also becoming a strong townread as well. I like her response to pressure, and I like that she hasn't immediately jumped on her attackers even though she probably could have. I think she'd do well to place a vote down and be a little more aggressive, but the start is good.

Gen_Wolf has been away for a while, and I need to hear a little more from himself, as well as from Antagon, James May, Fegelein and Champ on him. Gen_Wolf is becoming a main wagon, but I need more reasons and opinions before I place a vote.

UNVOTE: Antagon.

Vote is on hold until we get some input from other players. My current analysis:
Fegelein: leaning town
Feel It: null
Gen_Wolf: scummy
Antagon: null

Do you remember why Fegelein was a townread here?

I labeled him leaning town because his reactions came to me as ones of a careful, mistrusting town rather than a mafia attempting to nitpick "scumslips" and guide the lynch onto an easy target.

Champianoman and Feel It are also town.

I'm not exactly certain what is definitely a towntell that makes one pinpoint a person in the town zone. At this point I can't strictly say that for anyone. You and Champ *feel* town at this point, but it's merely a feeling, just like Fegelein was.

Already addressed in post #54 ("from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.") Did you deliberately omit that post and why?

Nope, definitely missed that one. Although now that you bring it up, I'm curious what you think of it. I think it's inaccurate and OMGUS-y.

It was partially accurate when it was made, because at that point FI was digging deep into GW, although it wasn't an extreme focus on one post, it was a much broader scumread. I can't tell if he's deliberately avoiding the rest of the game or just very focused onto lynching his suspect, but he did offer some scanty analysis once I pointed that out as well. I don't think FI has something to hide, but rather has nothing to say, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. But overall the post is OMGUS-y. I'm not sure if that's the expected reaction from town or scum point of view. I was just wondering whether you ignored it on purpose, or just overlooked it.

I definitely agree he's not a passive scum, was just a little restrained at first. I like his comprehensive analysis, but I find some alarming conclusions in it, which is why I can't yet pinpoint him as town.

What alarming conclusions? Why does it matter that he's drawn different conclusions than you have as long as the way he gets there makes sense?

Not so much different conclusions than me rather than overweighting minor actions ("nice opening vote"), drawing contradicting conclusions ("worries me she isn't aware of editing posts while admitting to not being new" versus "editing remark is far-fetched") and overuse of narrative. He could be reading into superfluous information and trying to give it a meaning, or he could just be in a rush and dropping raw thoughts on paper without caring if it sounds random and not entirely coherent. First one is scummy and second one is towny. At this point I'm not sure, hence why I can't pinpoint him.

Because it sounds pretty counterinituitive to me for both to be scum. FI won't get too much town credit if GW gets lynched and revealed as mafia, and neither would GW in the opposite event. I don't think the end justifies the means.

Interesting. Why do they need town credit when one is lynched in order to be mafia together?

Because FI immediately jumped on GW, previously unsuspected, right this early into the game, and is currently driving a wagon on him that gains momentum with increasing certainty. I find throwing one partner under the bus, especially on Day 1, without gaining any town credit of sorts, simply unsubstantiated and illogical. Or am I overlooking a grand WIFOM and bloody gambit?

[Miss Stranger]

Genuine question: what is backseat scumhunting and is it a good thing?

Don't ignore my questions, oh mighty IC! ^^;

[Antagon]

Back. Physically couldn't get to a computer.

Genuine question: what is backseat scumhunting and is it a good thing?

Don't ignore my questions, oh mighty IC! ^^;

Backseat hunting comes from this post.

Oh no, it's backseat scumhunting Nacho again.

Wait. Could you explain where this backseat scumhunting Nacho comes from first?

Newbie 1344, all he pretty much did is ask questions, flipped scum.

UNVOTE: Antagon.

Vote is on hold until we get some input from other players. My current analysis:
Fegelein: leaning town
Feel It: null
Gen_Wolf: scummy
Antagon: null

Please explain. What made Fegelein look town?
What did Gen_Wolf do that made him scummy?

Why are these reads important enough for your follow up question considering you have ignored the following read on yourself made a lot earlier?

Because lists like this should be posted with at least

some

reasoning behind it.
I ignored the read on Feel It and myself because everyone starts out being read as null. As the game goes on, it becomes easier to get reads on players.

Antagon is active lurking, asking about people questions without contributing much himself. Fegelein has done the same but is a bit more involved.

Except between when you call me out for active lurking and now, I physically couldn't post.

[Generic]

Miss stranger, I cannot access mafiascum at work (believe it or not it's a banned site on our Internet :p ) but I think I remember some of the questions you asked to answer by phone.

You asked about buddying of champ and gen wolf. Tat was more to do with champ liking a gen wolf comment and gen wolf leaping on it as the only morsel of positive feedback he got over it. Gen wolf comes across as new scum, but champs positive comment wasn't at the post but at the reaction from others it got (which he later explained), so the buddying comment was misplaced at this time.

On your editing mess up. I never said it was proof you were scum, I played devils advocate on the analysis. I can't just write you off as new and give you a free ride. I'm new here, would you accept me at my word that I've never played mafia before? I would hope not. So I looked at both sides of the coin, but your paranoid frustration is the most telling town tell you have at present, so my read on you is new town and not new scum.

There were some other questions I'm sure, but if you want to re ask them I will answer.
Right now gen wolf I would like to give me an assessment of the players in this game and a brief read on each. What I believe is called a T/S list (town/scum?) on mtgs. Tell me at this point who you read as what alignment (or null).

[Nachomamma8]

Genuine question: what is backseat scumhunting and is it a good thing?

Don't ignore my questions, oh mighty IC! ^^;

Backseat scumhunting is generally where you take safe potshots at people from the stands, don't stick your neck out too much, ask a lot of questions but never actually make a push on someone. It's usually a very bad thing, but it does have its place.

[Nachomamma8]

Gen_Wolf has been away for a while, and I need to hear a little more from himself, as well as from Antagon, James May, Fegelein and Champ on him. Gen_Wolf is becoming a main wagon, but I need more reasons and opinions before I place a vote.

What are your reasons for disliking Gen right now?

I'm not exactly certain what is definitely a towntell that makes one pinpoint a person in the town zone. At this point I can't strictly say that for anyone. You and Champ *feel* town at this point, but it's merely a feeling, just like Fegelein was.

I function less on towntells and more on "does this person's actions make more sense coming from a town perspective of a scum one?". Get inside people's heads, figure out why they are doing what they are doing.

I don't think FI has something to hide, but rather has nothing to say, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

Well if he doesn't have something to hide, he's probably town.

Because FI immediately jumped on GW, previously unsuspected, right this early into the game, and is currently driving a wagon on him that gains momentum with increasing certainty. I find throwing one partner under the bus, especially on Day 1, without gaining any town credit of sorts, simply unsubstantiated and illogical. Or am I overlooking a grand WIFOM and bloody gambit?

Yeah, it's very rare that mafia would bus each other that hard right out of the gate.

[Generic]

Oh, there was more. On feel it:
"Do you get town vibes because you both find the same person scummy? What scum vibes do you get?"

Feel it has been showing early signs of gentle pressure application although some of it has been misguided, and also thinking about the vote.
His scum plays included hesitancy on the gen wolf vote when he wasnt so hesitant in miss stranger, and a couple of occasions where he has done something without explanation only to fill in the gap later when someone questions it (can be a scum tell as he uses the time to make the reason fit the agenda or mood). But the explanations that have been forthcoming have made a lot of sense. He is more town than scum to me at this stage.


And on gen wolf:
"Push it back in how?"
I LOLed... But moving in from the question looking odd in isolation, this was referring to my comment about gen wolf and RVS. He makes a comment that his desire to quicklynch on page one of day 1 was because he hates RVS and wanted to end it early. But he also said it was a joke. And he also said it was a reaction test. And he also said it was the secret password to the land of narnia... Ok, I added the last one.
But my point was, antagon had hit a serious vote down and the paranoia stage that always follows RVS was in full swing when gen wolf pops up with what he says was a joke (outside RVS) to END RVS. If anything joking when it's already ended is trying to return to RVS. So he is either lying about it bring a joke or that it was to end RVS. The reaction test comment is a cheap trick to cover scummy play by saying you wanted to provoke a reaction with a provocative comment.


"Yes, he's scummy. What do you think it would happen if he flips scum, and what if he flips town?"

Don't quite see the relevance if this question at this stage. I will answer this as the game progresses if gen wolf enters L-1 territory. Right now everyone should be looking at identifying a top three suspects list. Don't clear anybody and guaranteed town, the ones slipping up on their words occasionally are more likely town than the completely clean players.
Townies don't vet their posts, scum do more often than not. So a town player won't realise or care to notice if a comment seems scummy, a mafia player will ensure every comment has purpose.

But what do I know, I'm a n00b