Mini 326- Buffy Mafia-Game Over


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 12:55 pm

Post by JechtMurray »

Twito wrote:Yes she was. She went completely psycho.
But it's hard to tell as she could be on either side. Good or Evil, mafia or town.
I don't think Stevie would claim Faith if he were someone else though.. that's why I find that claim believeable. Unless Stevie knows nothing about Buffy..? :P
I know nothing about Buffy, next to the main characters. I have no issue, however, with someone claiming a part time psychopath. It would be terribly hypocritical for me to attack someone for having a somewhat sinister-but-not-right-now roleclaim.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 1:01 pm

Post by JechtMurray »

notguilty wrote:There were 12 people at the start of this game.

Presumably:
3 Mafia
1 Doctor (dead)
1 Cop
1 Vig
6 Townies (1 dead)

Faith didn't claim Cop or Vig. So:

3/8: Faith is Mafia
5/8: Faith is a Townie

There is a 38% shot Faith is Mafia. Given Stevie's actions that's not enough for me to unvote.
Aelyn touched on this, but I'll say it again: you cannot possibly make an assumption on the set up of this game. I have seen minis with no cops, no doctors, 3 vigs, you name it. You even listed 3 mafia and a vig as killing roles, yet there are two deaths.

And Fritz isn't the vig. 8)
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 1:12 pm

Post by JechtMurray »

Lostprophet wrote:
StevieT92 wrote:I am generating discussion.
I call BS. This isn't Hollywood; not all press is good press. What you're doing actually is copping out of dicussion completely by posting only votes and unvotes, something I initially defended you for. Now, you're just keeping yourself in the foreground without actually saying anything that could be used against you. I'm not going to let you write off reasoning with a "My activity is beneficial to the town," especially when that conclusion is erroneous to begin with.

See that above paragraph? That's called "reasoning." Now, here's the part where I support my opinion with action:

Unvote, Vote: StevieT92
.

See how that works?
I see no problem with generating discussion early on.

With the rapidly changing votes of Stevie, who, honestly,
seriously
thought he was actually trying to get Spamwise, me, whoever lynched?

If you actually thought him voting someone new in response to someone else accusing him of vote-hopping as an act of:
notguilty wrote: FOS: Stevie

Because I have almost no idea what he's doing...
...and because the little idea I do have is that he'll keep
vote hopping till something sticks.
You need a reality check. For example, in games if I feel I have a strong claim/ability/comfirmable in some way, I dance around people, doing little things. Once people start trying to lynch you over nothing much, then you have a strong place to start looking.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 1:25 pm

Post by JechtMurray »

notguilty wrote:Hey sorry. I'll be posting more tomorrow night after I get home from college.
A nothing post.
FOS: Stevie

Because I have almost no idea what he's doing...
...and because the little idea I do have is that he'll keep vote hopping till something sticks.
Fairly non-committal. As I said in my last post, the second line is nonsense. Also, feigning confusion is a common tactic to avoid having to give a genuine opinion on someone's behaviour.
Vote:Stevie
This comes directly after Stevie posted an unvote, into vote for me with nothing else. You know, normally when someone comes under pressure for doing something, they tend to stop when people express concern over it. Vote hopping doesn't happen when you are the only person voting for someone else, you hop on
wagons
, ie people who already have some votes on them.
Well, discussion appears to have died...

Any other defense Stevie?
Being 'helpful' in pointing out that discussion has died, and asking Stevie for more of a defence. What interests me, is that the combination of these two lines achieves. Reading the first line, it is implied that further action is required, and for all non-Stevie players, the second line implies that Stevie is where you want to look in order to get things going. He's not going all out to attack Stevie, but instead it's a subtle push towards him.
There were 12 people at the start of this game.

Presumably:
3 Mafia
1 Doctor (dead)
1 Cop
1 Vig
6 Townies (1 dead)

Faith didn't claim Cop or Vig. So:

3/8: Faith is Mafia
5/8: Faith is a Townie

There is a 38% shot Faith is Mafia. Given Stevie's actions that's not enough for me to unvote.
Yeah, speculation etc. I don't like it a bit.

My suspicions lie firmly on notguilty so far, so
Vote:notguilty


I am working on the assumption that I now believe Stevie to be a strong possibility for town.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 1:31 pm

Post by JechtMurray »

Other notes:
-It's a weakness of Stevie's claim that he did not specify his season first.
-
smack
Aelyn for "Therefore it's worth checking, if Stevie is allowed to comment, if he's Faith from early season 3, later season 3, or even season 7". There is absolutely no reason for outling the options for him here. If it's a fake claim and he doesn't know much about Buffy, he could be forced into making a mistake.
- Lostprophet is
clearly
scum for voting for me twice on the first page. :evil:
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 2:26 pm

Post by notguilty »

Twito wrote: Also you might have noticed that there weren't counterclaim againts Stevie's claim. And yet Faith is a role I would expect in a game like this. We even had Clem so I wonder what makes you so sure of Faith not being in it.
Unless I missed something, no one is saying Faith isn't a role in this game, they're saying 'yeah she probably is a role, but that doesn't tell us if she's pro town.'

I'll answer Jecht's conjecture in a moment.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 2:50 pm

Post by notguilty »

You need a reality check. For example, in games if I feel I have a strong claim/ability/comfirmable in some way, I dance around people, doing little things. Once people start trying to lynch you over nothing much, then you have a strong place to start looking.
Reality check: He claimed townie.
Fairly non-committal. As I said in my last post, the second line is nonsense. Also, feigning confusion is a common tactic to avoid having to give a genuine opinion on someone's behaviour.
But I did give a genuine opinion, which you disagreed with. I personally thought he was vote hopping and would stop when something stuck. You thought this was a bad reason, but I gave one and committed to it. Lynching me because you think I'm feigning confusion would not only kill a townie (me), it would also be pretty silly considering how erraticly Stevie has been acting.
This comes directly after Stevie posted an unvote, into vote for me with nothing else. You know, normally when someone comes under pressure for doing something, they tend to stop when people express concern over it. Vote hopping doesn't happen when you are the only person voting for someone else, you hop on wagons, ie people who already have some votes on them
Exactly?

Stevie hopped on the Spamwise wagon. A bunch of people (myself included) were very suspicious of that hop. And then he immediately jumped off of it with no explanation.
Being 'helpful' in pointing out that discussion has died, and asking Stevie for more of a defence. What interests me, is that the combination of these two lines achieves. Reading the first line, it is implied that further action is required, and for all non-Stevie players, the second line implies that Stevie is where you want to look in order to get things going. He's not going all out to attack Stevie, but instead it's a subtle push towards him.
Wow, way to read selectively. His defense was that he was generating discussion. Then discussion died. This was an all out attack against Stevie's defense. So I asked if he had anything else to say on his own behalf.
Yeah, speculation etc. I don't like it a bit.
Yes, obviously speculation. But with a dead doctor, a dead townie and a vig, there are 9 spots left. Of the 9 at least 1 is mafia, and quite possibly more. With so few people, the percentage of success is high enough for this level of certainty to result in a lynch.

FOS: Jecht
for taking things out of context in making an accusation.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu May 25, 2006 3:03 pm

Post by Adele »

Twito wrote:
Add on the disingenuously "accidental" confusion over timing feeding in to a role-limiting claim
Yeah well it was accidental..
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. In either case, we certainly shouldn't let it play to your advantage.
Twito wrote:
Adele wrote:I say we lynch Stevie today and, if he's scum, lynch Twito tomorrow.
So you think I shouldn't even get a change to RC tomorrow if Stevie turns out scum?
I think it's a sensible gameplan, not a mindless one. Of course, if you look like the likely lynch tomorrow, people should give you the opportunity to claim if you want to. Please quote me where I said "quicklynch without discussion". :roll:
Twito wrote:And sorry for changing my mind after claim. Is that completely againts what you believe in? And bringing up my suspicions, you know there ain't much to go on at this point..
Maybe you would prefer no talk and quicklynches. :P
Your opinion may do whatever it wishes to, but I that doesn't change the fact that what you are saying appears to follow a scummy pattern. The reasons you give are lame. The strength of your suspicions against Stevies seem near perfectly inversely proportional to the strength of general suspicion.
As to the second point, it appears to be general consensus that there
is
something solid to go on: Stevie.
Finally, I'm all for talk; I've hardly lurked, myself, and I've just raised some incredibly fabulous points against you (I think my modesty is my best quality, though :wink: ). Seriously, though, talk is an important part of this game, but so is action. I think it's stalling out because most people are satisfied with Stevie as the lynch. I also don't think that any new relevant info's likely to come up in his defence; I'm waiting on the hammer accordingly. There's nothing more I can do.
Twito wrote:Also you might have noticed that there weren't counterclaim againts Stevie's claim. And yet Faith is a role I would expect in a game like this. We even had Clem so I wonder what makes you so sure of Faith not being in it.
Reread me. You'll find I explicitly stated I believe that Stevie
is
Faith; that he nameclaimed truthfully in case there was a rolecop in the game, but lied about his allegiance. How was I even the slightest bit unclear about this?
Twito wrote:I'm not gonna possibly lynch an innocent townie based on you pressuring me into it. I rather keep discussing and see if we can get more info for today and tomorrow.

Right now if Stevie turns up town who would be next suspect?
So I'm supporting more discussion. And turns out I actually seem to be succeeding in making that happen.
It's actually not you I'm trying to convince right now. My current theory is that you are co-scum with Stevie, you wanted to ease pressure on him, get him out of trouble, I caught you and your only recourse is OMGUS. You suspect LP, you suspect Aelyn, you suspect me.
Of course
you're supporting more discussion if that stands a chance of saving you and your co-scum from the noose. But I think that Stevie's a solid lynch for today with, if he
is
guilty, a solid lead for tomorrow.

If you want to discuss this further, I'll grudgingly acquiesce. I can stand alone by my convictions.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:09 am

Post by Twito »

Adele wrote:
Twito wrote:
Add on the disingenuously "accidental" confusion over timing feeding in to a role-limiting claim
Yeah well it was accidental..
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. In either case, we certainly shouldn't let it play to your advantage.
And I'm not asking for that so what is the problem here?

Twito wrote:
Adele wrote:I say we lynch Stevie today and, if he's scum, lynch Twito tomorrow.
So you think I shouldn't even get a change to RC tomorrow if Stevie turns out scum?
I think it's a sensible gameplan, not a mindless one. Of course, if you look like the likely lynch tomorrow, people should give you the opportunity to claim if you want to. Please quote me where I said "quicklynch without discussion". :roll:
I say we lynch Stevie today and, if he's scum, lynch Twito tomorrow.
And I don't think I'm good lynch for tomorrow in either way.[/color]
Twito wrote:And sorry for changing my mind after claim. Is that completely againts what you believe in? And bringing up my suspicions, you know there ain't much to go on at this point..
Maybe you would prefer no talk and quicklynches. :P
Your opinion may do whatever it wishes to, but I that doesn't change the fact that what you are saying appears to follow a scummy pattern. The reasons you give are lame. The strength of your suspicions against Stevies seem near perfectly inversely proportional to the strength of general suspicion.
As to the second point, it appears to be general consensus that there
is
something solid to go on: Stevie.
Finally, I'm all for talk; I've hardly lurked, myself, and I've just raised some incredibly fabulous points against you (I think my modesty is my best quality, though :wink: ). Seriously, though, talk is an important part of this game, but so is action. I think it's stalling out because most people are satisfied with Stevie as the lynch. I also don't think that any new relevant info's likely to come up in his defence; I'm waiting on the hammer accordingly. There's nothing more I can do.
This is all pure BS ain't it? If you think 100% sure that Stevie is scum doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way. There is more you can do. You can openly discuss other suspicions.

Twito wrote:Also you might have noticed that there weren't counterclaim againts Stevie's claim. And yet Faith is a role I would expect in a game like this. We even had Clem so I wonder what makes you so sure of Faith not being in it.
Reread me. You'll find I explicitly stated I believe that Stevie
is
Faith; that he nameclaimed truthfully in case there was a rolecop in the game, but lied about his allegiance. How was I even the slightest bit unclear about this?
That wasn't directly for you. Didn't have time to check who is voting for what. There are still ppl voting just coz of votehopping. And I mean votehopping, not wagonhopping.

Twito wrote:I'm not gonna possibly lynch an innocent townie based on you pressuring me into it. I rather keep discussing and see if we can get more info for today and tomorrow.

Right now if Stevie turns up town who would be next suspect?
So I'm supporting more discussion. And turns out I actually seem to be succeeding in making that happen.
It's actually not you I'm trying to convince right now. My current theory is that you are co-scum with Stevie, you wanted to ease pressure on him, get him out of trouble, I caught you and your only recourse is OMGUS. You suspect LP, you suspect Aelyn, you suspect me.
Of course
you're supporting more discussion if that stands a chance of saving you and your co-scum from the noose. But I think that Stevie's a solid lynch for today with, if he
is
guilty, a solid lead for tomorrow.
But what if he is innocent? Is he still a good lead for tomorrow?


If you want to discuss this further, I'll grudgingly acquiesce. I can stand alone by my convictions.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:19 am

Post by Twito »

Stevies first post:
StevieT92 wrote:
vote: Twito



SCUM!
My vote on Stevie, 3rd vote on him.
Twito wrote:Me neither..
First voting me, hopping on guy with one vote already(attempting to start bandwagon?) and then hopping on guy who voted him..

unvote
Vote: StevieT92


It's not like we have better leads here..
My unvote on Stevie:
Twito wrote:If I counted correctly Stevie now has 5 votes on him but it's not beneficial for town to lynch him without a RC or anything. So no more votes on him before he gets a change to defend himself.
We can't just go right into day 2 without looking for any additional information.

Even though it seems Stevie keeps votehopping I wanna hear what he has to say.
Just to make sure he really gets that change to defend himself
Unvote: Stevie
I'm waiting for Stevies RC.
Twito wrote:I don't like that defence either but I have unvoted him to give him change to RC. *waiting*
*bored now*

Just so he realizes it FOS: Stevie
I would vote the guy but I think hearing RC first would benefit the town.
Stevie RC's:
StevieT92 wrote:Faith, townie.
I changed my mind about lynching him coz the roleclaim is believeable.
Twito wrote:Ok well that was the shortest claim I've seen but I guess I can believe it if we don't get counterclaim. Coz that really is a role I would expect in this game.
And after that coz I think Stevies RC is believeable and he appears to be pro-town I try to look for other suspects.

Now how does that make me scummy?

Also you are saying that you believe that he is Faith but you think he is Faith in time she was on evil side. Well same goes for many roles. As he claimed season 7 Faith he should be innocent.
Lets think of some roles who could be either town or mafia:
Willow, Spike, Angel, Oz...

Are you gonna lynch anyone claiming one of those roles?
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:30 am

Post by Twito »

But then there is you:
Adele wrote:I’m currently thinking that patterns are yet to truly show; not so’s we can tell with any certainty, anyhow. PBuG and Stevie’s behaviour on page one looks to me like the usual game-start mindless spamming. Y’know? Spamwise’s comments, similarly, look entirely innocuous to my eye, and don’t worry me. But LostProphet’s response then to Spamwise… I don’t like it, not at all. Eh. That does not necessarily imply the scumminess, though, of Lostprophet - or copycat Stevie; their response may be genuine. Nevertheless, I, apparently like PBuG, Spam and notguilty, do feel cautious of stevie and lostprophet. Since lostprophet said what he saw and gave reasoning, I trust him somewhat more.

I don’t know if the above paragraph makes any sense to any of you… suffice it to say,
small FOS: Stevie
Small
FOS on stevie!
Adele wrote:I would also like an RC from Stevie.
You are still not suspecting him, just looking for RC.
Adele wrote:hmmm... remind me, wasn't Faith occasionally psychopathic?

(But then, many mostly nice people were from time to time)
Exactly, many mostly nice ppl were from time to time.


BUT then Post: 55, only 2 posts since your last reply, you suddently vote him and bring him to 1 away from getting lynched.
Now what completely mindchanging happened in those 2 posts? What turned you from "small FOS" to be certain he is scum?

Those 2 posts being Game setup speculation by notguilty (which is kinda useless really) and Aelyn:
Aelyn wrote:Stevie: It would be best to check with the mod if it's OK to answer, but whenabouts in Faith's period are you?

Also, I have a strong feeling he is Faith. But I'm not sure what alignment Faith would be.

Bah.
Seems like you were very sudden on your vote for Stevie. Just those 2 posts convinced you of him being scum. So if he is scum you could just be trying to save your scummy ass as lyching Stevie seems like unavoidable at this point. Or he is townie and you are scummy bringing him to 1 from lynch trying quicklynch when we could still be discussing it and getting more information.
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:32 am

Post by Twito »

Aelyn wrote:
Twito wrote:
Aelyn wrote:Can someone either hammer Stevie or say something incredibly scummy so we can get this game moving again?
Discussion is good for town. Quickly forcing a lynch isn't.
FOS: Aelyn
Agreed, but frankly I wouldn't exactly call this discussion - at least, not the last few days.

I'll admit I said that somewhat out of frustration, but us sitting around waiting for someone else to place the hammer vote doesn't do anything, and I wanted to get the game moving.
Yes there were no discussion and I can understand you feeling frustrated. So nomore FOS on you. But now there is discussion and you could join it.
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:35 am

Post by Twito »

Now it seems we gotta find out whether Stevie is town or mafia so lets find out.
Hammer
Vote: Stevie


And Adele you can be sure I'm after you tomorrow.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 5:59 am

Post by Aelyn »

Twito wrote:Yes there were no discussion and I can understand you feeling frustrated. So nomore FOS on you. But now there is discussion and you could join it.
Yep, there is indeed.

Firstly, Adele's been attacking you by association, saying your actions were consistentwith you being a scumbuddy of Stevie's, and I have to sa I agree with her.

You voted him early, as the bandwagon began to form, but rapidly unvoted him when he began to look in real danger.

You repeatedly reminded him to roleclaim (once when you unvoted, then made a post which was basically "Hey, Stevie, RC") - admittedly this isn't scummy, but as soon as he does roleclaim:
Twito wrote:Ok well that was the shortest claim I've seen but I guess I can believe it if we don't get counterclaim. Coz that really is a role I would expect in this game.
It seems like your main reason for believing him is that you'd expect Faith to be in the game.

You now say that, because he claimed Season 7 Faith, he should be innocent - you don't seem to be considering the possibility he's lying, which has been brought up.

Finally, you made a list of characters who could be innocent or guilty - now, it seems to me that that could well be you setting up to weaken other people's claims in the future, should we lynch Stevie and have him show up as scum.

Frankly, if someone claimed Willow, Spike or Angel, yes, I'd be perfectly willing to
consider
lynching them, if they seemed scummy. Even Oz could realistically be an SK.

And finally, presumably because Stevie's a lost cause, you hammer him. Immediately after inviting me to join the conversation.

Conditional FOS: Twito
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 6:14 am

Post by Twito »

Lets see about Stevie first. Tomorrow feel free to aim all your suspicions on me.

I'm pretty sure I can convince you with RC tomorrow but I'm not gonna do that yet. Hopefully I get a change for roleclaiming and I'm not vigged tonight.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 9:59 am

Post by StevieT92 »

I like the strategy of giving the town a very early lead by generating a lot of discussion about you. someone suggested it to me a while ago, so I thought I would try it.

Good night, and good luck.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 10:03 am

Post by Twito »

Well nice try and it did get alot of discussion. Too bad many ppl though it was scummy instead.

I'm guessing this means that I was right about your innocence after all. Nice effort and imo town did get information out of it.

Btw LP I'm no longer that suspicious about you coz post 22 clearly defended Stevie even though you voted him later on.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Fri May 26, 2006 10:32 am

Post by JechtMurray »

Twito wrote:Well nice try and it did get alot of discussion. Too bad many ppl
managed to make a dodgy argument against you and get you killed.
Post fixed. 8)
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Sat May 27, 2006 9:30 pm

Post by SpamWise »

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't been keeping up. I'll catch up during the night hopefully, assuming Stevie's been hammered.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Sat May 27, 2006 10:17 pm

Post by Twito »

Yeah well it seems our mod has dissapeared.
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[color=blue]We are all innocent townies and the mod is an evil bastard laughing at us lynching eachother![/color]
I'm at M├â┬®xico as an exhange student and abit inactive.

thesheamuffin: I'm off to masterbate
Uber Timmy: CAN YOU PLAY ONE HANDED
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2006 11:10 am

Post by armlx »

Sorry, I typically don't log on from Friday till Sunday...

Vote Count
Stevie- 6 (Aelyn, Spamwise, notguilty, LP, Adele, Twito)
Jecht- 1 (Stevie)
notguilty- 1 (Jecht)

Not Voting: Pug, PBuG

10 alive, 6 to lynch

The town mumbles along, but out of no where comes Stevie. His accusations fly around, and the group forms a circle around him. Despite his claims he is Faith, the lynching occurs. Stevie was
Faith, Townie.

It is now N2. Choices are due by Thursday, June 1st.
Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Mon May 29, 2006 10:58 am

Post by armlx »

I still am missing most of the night choices. Get them in!!!!
Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:16 am

Post by armlx »

The sun rises yet again on another bloody mess.

Twito has been shot through the chest with a cross bow. He was
Role Name: Willow Rosenburg (High School, pre-lesbian & witch era)

You are Willow Rosenburg, the typical nerd. You know, except for the fact that you and your friends kill demons and slay vampires. You really don't do much of the actual fighting though. You are more the type to sit around in the library and research whats going on. And thats what you do. Each night you may chose to research one person and find out some info about them, including if they are evil.

Summary: Cop
Goal: Eliminate the evil
You also find JechtMurray killed in a similar fashion as CES. Neck broken, throat mangled, and less blood than there should be. He was
Role Name: Ayna (Season 5)

You are Anyanka aka. Anya, the ex-vengance demon. You love money, the cash register, making sales, and Xander. Unfortunately, people always think you are a little strange. Maybe you are a little too blunt. Its not your fault you were a demon for a thouhsand years (welll, maybe it is...). Each night, you may chose to chat up someone. They will be so annoyed and distracted they will be unable to perform their night action.

Summary: RB
Goal: Eliminate the evil
It is Day 2. With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:46 am

Post by JechtMurray »

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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:48 am

Post by Twito »

Go Tara!
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[color=blue]We are all innocent townies and the mod is an evil bastard laughing at us lynching eachother![/color]
I'm at M├â┬®xico as an exhange student and abit inactive.

thesheamuffin: I'm off to masterbate
Uber Timmy: CAN YOU PLAY ONE HANDED
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