Mini 423: Calvin & Hobbes - GAME OVER!


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Mr Stoofer
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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:59 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Vote Count


foobardog: 2 (ubertimmy VitaminR)
Skruffs: 1 (foobardog)
Thok: 1 (Machiavellian-Mafia)
PBuG: 1 (milkman)
EmpTyger: 1 (Skruffs)
remussaidow: 1 (petroleumjelly)

It will take 6 votes to lynch!

milkman wrote:
Mod
: Can you please clarify the Calvinball situation?

I don't understand what you want me to clarify. The most up to date version of the rules can be found here. I don't see how they could be any clearer.
Last edited by Mr Stoofer on Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:03 am

Post by remussaidow »

PJ, I subscribe to the initial american government theory of innocent until shown guilty (slightly modified for mafia purposes). As in, instead of thinking everyone is mafia and working backword, I think everyone is town and I work foward, to see who's giving off tells of non-town behavior. So far, no one has.
Now, life is civilized. Once there was a city, barbaric in its ways. Yet, they were an empire. But even before that, they were two brothers. They fought. Remus said ow, and it all began.
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:08 am

Post by Skruffs »

Yes, PJ, I know.
But I'm not sure why he would want to give a snowman a loboty. His clone I can understand, and girls, in a purely flavor way, I can understand. But a snowman?

I see what you are saying, I took it to the next step and proposed it. Are rosalyn and susie derkins the Real name of the monsters in this game? If so, than milkman, pbug, and PJ are all "not" the scum, because those are their real names.
This has my head spinning. It means something, I think, though I have *no* idea what.

I proposed an idea I thought of. Discuss amongst yourselves.
Personally, I think the more people who unvote from me, the better. Very pro-town of them.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:21 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Skruffs, I'm pretty sure the lobotomies were directly related to
recent activity
- as EmpTyger pointed out pretty much exactly afterwards. The fact that he wants to give a Snowman (me) a lobotomy has nothing to do with the
game
- just recent activity. Please get with the program.
Skruffs wrote:Personally, I think the more people who unvote from me, the better. Very pro-town of them.
Personally, that makes me want to revote you. Stop talking about things which could be true in theory - you have been focusing
way
too much on flavor discussion for my taste. Start focusing on
players
.

In fact,
FoS: Skruffs
. Scum are more likely to stick to flavor discussion instead of player discussion, since there are practically no drawbacks to discussing flavor (and in fact, there may be benefits if you can get the town into thinking incorrectly), and this further allows for scum to not take stances on players which can be later contradicted or would call for explanation, while making it look as if they are contributing to discussion.
Remussaidow wrote:PJ, I subscribe to the initial american government theory of innocent until shown guilty (slightly modified for mafia purposes). As in, instead of thinking everyone is mafia and working backword, I think everyone is town and I work foward, to see who's giving off tells of non-town behavior. So far, no one has.
That may be, but this does not disallow you from
pressuring
people even if you find nothing inherently 'scummy' about them. I'm hard-pressed to believe you haven't seen a single thing in this game that made you go "
Hmmm...
".

How about you take some stances instead of sitting in the background going "I still haven't seen anything yet". If you aren't seeing anything,
make
something happen. Sometimes you have to take the initiative if you want to root out scum instead of sitting idly by waiting for something to happen.
"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:25 am

Post by remussaidow »

pressure vote: PJ


why?

Because I'm sick of seeing skruffs get mislynched, and he almost always does when I'm in the same game as him. Always been town too, come to think of it...

Also, because you're the one wanting me to start creating actions. A vote, for any reason whatsoever, can draw many reactions. By putting a vote on you, PJ, I don't just draw your reaction, but 10 other reactions as well.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:33 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

remussaidow wrote:why?

Because I'm sick of seeing skruffs get mislynched, and he almost always does when I'm in the same game as him. Always been town too, come to think of it...
Explain to me what, if anything, about Skruff's play here makes you think he is town. Do you disagree with my comments on people who stick to theoretical discussion? If so, why?
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:41 am

Post by Skruffs »

Recent activity, right?
Why are you FOSsing me, I'm looking at GAME MECHANICS to see how they work. This is not flavor, this is about real and/or fake identities in this game. Would you discredit a flavor-cop's analysis?
You are being ultra defensive considering I'm pretty much saying that calvin is saying you *aren't* scum. :P

Remus, thanks, but I don't need defending. If PJ wants to FOS me for speculating about public information, when PJ started off the game doing almost the exact samae thing, let him.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:51 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Misrepresentation. Skruffs, pay close attention.

1.)
You
began the game by saying your role-name made you less likely to be scum. You continued in this vein for a few posts - with such things as "why would broccoli be under Calvin's bed?". This is
flavor speculation
.

It was then decided that role-names were
irrelevant
as to who was scum. Calvin even
quoted
these sentiments, and said it was
good advice
.

2.)
You then speculate on a "cootie mafia" which would make some role-names more likely to be cleared, even though you were
just told that role-names have no affiliation to alignment
.

3.)
You then further the point on flavor discussion on "why would Calvin want a Snowman to have a lobotomy?", even though:
->
A.
It was clear from the first Calvin post about players (approval among six-year-olds) that he was refering to activity level.
->
B.
The second Calvin post about players (lobotomies) was also refering to activity level, which EmpTyger pointed out immediately afterwards.

I'm
saying that none of this has to do with the game whatsoever, and the fact that it appears you are continually trying to push discussion into that realm is distracting at best, and scummy at worst.

4.)
My
very early game speculation on why scum would kill King of Mud was based on
players
and possible
tendencies
of types of players, as opposed to
flavor
, which you seem to be stuck on. The two types of speculation are in no way equivalent.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:04 am

Post by remussaidow »

I'm not defending you. Just saying you somehow manage to get yourself lynched alot. Like...

Every game the two of us are in.

For PJ, theory is a decent way to start a game, I believe. In reference to Skruffs, just for ease of reference, since he's on this page with two seemingly similar points...

In post 81, he's right. Flavor cops (if somehow confirmed) should be trusted, and flavor discussion should be based upon that.

However, in 78, he is trying to take discussion away from the actual game and put it into the theoretical game. I believe this has been called "outguessing the mod" and really should be avoided, due to its impossibility of working, since the mod can subsequently start dropping BS to get you off the proper trail.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:09 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Skruffs wrote:Would you discredit a flavor-cop's analysis?
Remussaidow wrote:In post 81, he's right. Flavor cops (if somehow confirmed) should be trusted, and flavor discussion should be based upon that.
Even if there are flavor Cops (which seems fairly pointless in this game, since all of our role-names are visible to the entire town), this point is completely undermined thusly:
Stoofer's Rules wrote:
[16] NEW CLAIMING RULE:
No claiming. You can refer to your character (see first post) but you may not claim, hint at or confirm any power/ability (or the absence thereof). Note that you may still say "I am pro-town" "I am not scum" or any synonym thereof.
A flavor Cop would be completely disallowed from even
hinting
that they are a flavor Cop. So talking about "discrediting a flavor Cop" is completely beyond the scope of this game, or at least so long as this rule is in application.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:13 am

Post by remussaidow »

I never said anything about discrediting flavor cops, and, in fact, I was pointing out the only situation where what skruffs was suggesting would be a decent idea
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:42 am

Post by Skruffs »

PJ, okay,
petroleumjelly, in post nine wrote:A few notes:

2.) That was a particularly quick night in relation to when role PMs were sent out. This suggests to me a fairly organized scum-group.
3.) I have never played with King of Mud, and I would consider him a 'newbie' player. This suggests one of two things:
->
A.
That the scum-monsters were going somebody unlikely to be protected
->
B.
That there are experienced scum-monsters who didn't want to draw undue attention to them early on by killing off other experienced players
4.) I'm undecided as to whether or not EmpTyger [Hobbes] having Calvin's Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs is relevant. Although I
do
remember a strip where Hobbes seems thoroughly disgusted that Calvin can even process so much sugar.
Vote : Skruffs
This was long before I responded to the two votes against me, which were, incidentally, based almost entirely on the flavor of my rolename.

My
question
is
why susie derkin adn rosalyn are even ON the list
. My theory is that maybe two of the monsters under the bed are actually rosalyn and susie derkin. Or at least, if not scu, that they are here in disguise for some sort. There are (AS the rules say) no girls allowed. So if they are here, they'd have to be here
in disguise
.
Otherwise, they are not in this game. So why would they be on the activity list?

And lastly - why would you (petroleumjelly) be on that list at all? Calvin just complimented you for good posting, and you have not been at ALL inactive.
I think there's more to that list than what you are eager to write it off as. I don't know what, though. So I'm going to snoop around and find out.

Maybe the girls are just on there *for* flavor, but in that case, is the whole list just for flavor? It seems incongruous to assume everything immediately about the list - as I believe you've already been asked about for your first post.

We're supposed to be runnig this game based on Scumminess, and I think you are acting scummy, PJ. You are too quick to make asumptions about things you shouldn't know about and critical of others for offering suggestions. The flavor, in the end, means as little or as much as we decide it does, but one thing it is good for is Discussion. Discussing this game is NOT scummy. It's not even distracting from the game, especially this early on. It is, in fact,
the game
.
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:54 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Ugh, this is so simple.

1.) I am fairly positive that Susie Durkins and Rosalyn are on the list because it is
humorous
. Even
if
girls are scum (which is unlikely - the flavor makes it
very clear
that Monsters under the Bed are scum), that
doesn't help us whatsoever
.

In fact, here's a challenge:

If
we were somehow able to determine that "girls" are scum, how would that help you
find
scum? Keep in mind that role-names are meaningless, since even
if
girls are scum, they could impersonate any role-name.

2.) I am first on the list because my
last post
before the Lobotomy Post was not very close in RL-days. I may not be 'inactive', but I was (I believe) the person with the least recent post at the time.

3.) I am the one
not
making "assumptions" - I am basing my opinions from having played in a number of Stoofer games previously, having read past Stoofer games, and taking the word of both Stoofer and Calvin, who have assured us that role-names have no bearing on alignment. I am using information to come to conclusions which actually have support behind them.
"Logic? I call that flapdoodle."
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:49 pm

Post by Skruffs »

It may be simple to you, yes.

1
- I don't see why you infer that Girls are not the monsters under the bed, but, okay. While I see it is possible that it is merely a humorous posting, I think it is strange that, being on it, it doesn't itnerest you any more than that.

Challenge
- Exactly what I am saying! Yes! If the girls can impersonate any role name, than we know three role names they can't impersonate. If that is the case, than you shouldn't say that it doesn't help us. There's no reason to believe it's true or not true over everything else, but acting like it's a false until proven is like trying to prove someone isn't scum day one. :P I guess I'm saying that the challenge goes both ways.
Should it be pushed after until a solution is reached, here and now? No. That's stupid. Is it something to keep in mind? Maybe!

2
. - How sure are you about that?
Calvin's List with names added: wrote: 1. Snowman - PJ
2. Susie Derkins - ???
3. My Clone - milkman
4. Rosalyn - ???
5. Tracer Bullet - Pbug
And here's the list of players in the game, and alive, in order of appearance, starting at Calvin's 'list' and working backwards. wrote:
Skruffs Toxic Waste
thok Capt Napalm
emptyger Hobbes
remus -Tuna Sandwich
milkman -Calvin's Clone

ubertimmy- Spaceman Spiff
MM - G.R.O.S.S.
vitamin R - Safari Al
PJ - Snowman

foobardog - TRex
PBuG - Tracer Bullet ( a very good deal back)
3
. Actually, yes you are. You assumed the list was based on recentness of activity, which does not explain why Milkman is on there but foobardog is not. Also, presumably if it was based on recentness of activity, PBuG would have been first.
As of Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:43 am wrote:

8 posts ---- emps,
PJ

4 posts ---- fooby,
milkman
, MachMan
3 posts ---- remenem, uberT, vittles,
PBuG
, thok
So... yeah.
I don't think it's based on activity. Unless it's criticizing activity that it doesn't like, or, something. You're just acting strangely about this, you are playign it off like it's no big deal but you are cutting me down every time I bring it up. And yeah, this does happen to me a lot day one, and I can't say if the people who always do it are scum, or not. I don't think I'm experienced enough of a player to really know
what
is going on here, but you are starting to remind me of Rumsfeld answering questions about Iraq. Shortly before he resigned. >.>

Anyways. If you don't want me to push it, I won't, but it is a bone to gnaw on until juicy meat wanders by.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:03 pm

Post by Thok »

Skruffs utterly confuses me.

I'm happy with the idea that Calvin's lists are partially based on who han't posted in a while, and partially based on some secret sauce we have yet to determine. This may include doing things like inserting nonsense.

I think I'm going to go back to
vote ubertimmy
, to get him to explain why he likes his foobardog vote.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:07 pm

Post by Skruffs »

:)
I don't mean to confuse people, but it seems to happen. I'm just out there, I guess.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:02 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Again, this is simple.

Calvin
does not know who the scum are
. This is clear from his introductory post to the game - he wants
us
to find the scum. Even
if
girls are scum (which I find highly doubtful),
Calvin would not know if any of the people on his Lobotomy List were duplicates
: for example, it would be possible for Tracer Bullet to actually be Susie Durkins, but Calvin would not be aware this fact.

So although I understand where you're coming from, I think you are reading the completely wrong things into the Lobotomy post.

Also, read again: the Lobotomy post is more directly related towards who had the last posts in the game - not who was being the most active. And I agree with Thok - I think Stoofer was just trying to use something clever in order to show that he was unhappy with three particular people, and wanted them to post more. I will not read anything further into those posts at this time,
unless
there is some indicator in the future that there is something more substantial to those posts. The order doesn't matter so much as the fact that he wants people to stay active.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:08 pm

Post by Skruffs »

Ooooh.
I hadn't considered that *Calvin* wouldn't know. THat's a very good point.
I retract the theory.
You know if you had just said that in the beginning I wuoldn't have pushed it. :P

That's fine, though, I'm satisfied. Thanks.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:37 pm

Post by Calvin! »

Skruffs wrote:My theory is that maybe two of the monsters under the bed are actually rosalyn and susie derkin.
Erk! There are no slimy girls under my bed!


Also, maybe Snowman doesn't need a lobotomy after all:
petroleumjelly wrote:Calvin
does not know who the scum are
.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:49 am

Post by Skruffs »

Thank you, Calvin.

I am glad that point was addressed in a civilized fashion.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:22 am

Post by VitaminR »

I have a feeling the discussion between PJ and Skruffs is pretty pointless.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:30 am

Post by remussaidow »

I agree, VitR
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:44 am

Post by milkman »

VitaminR wrote:I have a feeling the discussion between PJ and Skruffs is pretty pointless.
It's not entirely pointless. It's a good idea to have an understanding of the mechanics of the game we're playing, especially if they become more important later. This is a Calvinball game after all.
thok wrote:I think I'm going to go back to vote ubertimmy, to get him to explain why he likes his foobardog vote.
vote: ubertimmy
, I also want an explanation.

Mod:
I take it that only Calvin can make new Calvinball rules then.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:48 am

Post by Skruffs »

It may have well been pointless, but at least now we Know it was pointless.
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:24 am

Post by Machiavellian-Mafia »

Skruffs wrote:MM - Why? Page one jollies, is why. Two quasi-random votes, and a silly response. Showing I'm here, playing the game, etc.
Flavor speculation usually isn't helpful at all, especially beginning of day 1, and it often causes town to go on a tangent and not focus on scumhunting. And it is often a tool scum uses to make them seem to be participating when they are really just lurking in plain sight. And now you even admit yourself that it was pointless.
Thok wrote:@Machiavellian-Mafia: What do you think of the Skruffs and foobardog wagons?
I don't see anything significant about those wagons, pretty normal to have day 1 wagons.
remussaidow wrote:pressure vote: PJ

why?

Because I'm sick of seeing skruffs get mislynched, and he almost always does when I'm in the same game as him. Always been town too, come to think of it...
You really think Skruffs is going to get mislynched this quick and early in the game?

Also I just noticed PBuG minimal contributions to this game.
unvote, vote: PBuG
The end justifies the means.
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