Newbie 680: In this town of Cookieland... Over!

[guy0]

Thats not what i meant

Anywhoo, if this ERIC + popsofctown thing catches on, recognize lynching either one of us confirms or denies it. I think ERIC is more suspicious than me, he's slower to justify his actions, quieter, less spineful.

You say that since people think you two are in tandem, that finding the identity of one confirms the identity of another. It is possible that you are using this as a strategy to make yourself immune by saying something along the lines of, "eric is scummier than me so lets vote him out because there is a better chance he is scum than me," while this does make sense, you also say, as per my quoting of you above, that if he is lynched, and found to be town, you are also town.

You could be accusing eric so that we lynch him, find he's town, and then keep you safe for a while, which is why later you decided to

Vote: YOUNG ERIC (this post contains an unvote)

This is by no means a defense of young eric, it may just be something that pops is trying to do.

[Capricious]

The vote on Barros was based on his stunning discovery of "L-3!" L-3 doesn't mean jack normally, and with 2 scum, it doesn't mean anything at all. In fact, I wouldn't care if anyone was at L-1 as long as it is for the clear benefit of the town. Scum are scared, moreso than town, scared out of their tight cupcake pants. It is very difficult for scum to hammer/contribute to hammering votes. in the first few pages, especially in a newbie game.

Anyway, of course, the vote wasn't anything conclusive. But I am glad to see we have gotten out of the random/meaningless doldrums.

[YOUNG ERIC]

Ok I apologize for not posting as much as I should be. I can see how people would put me and pops in the same scummy group seein as we both stopped accusing eachother. I unvoted then voted for pops to spark conversation and it turned into this.

Anywhoo, if this ERIC + popsofctown thing catches on, recognize lynching either one of us confirms or denies it. I think ERIC is more suspicious than me, he's slower to justify his actions, quieter, less spineful.

I think that you are trying to put on a front that you don't care if you get lynched thinking it will help you but at the same time adding to the suspision on me. I'm not ready to vote yet but

FoS: popsofctown

[My Milked Eek]

Looking at My Milked Eek's attempt at a case in post #60, most of what's in there is fairly inane as far as actually being a scumtell.

It wasn't as much as "look at this dude's scumtells" as it was "won't you stop the crap about L-3".

(had to look up inane >_>)

The reason i used the word L-3, was to refute an anticipated argument from Young Eric, that voting for me was the same as any other random toss around vote.

You mean like your L-3

random

vote for UNI?

YOUNG ERIC made an unvote -> vote.

You might have missed it:

2. Unvote after every vote. (Just so I don't get bogged down in technicallities, I will not enforce this rule, but I will encourage you to do so).

Following the wishes of the mod, he unvoted before casting a new vote. Nothing suspicious about following the rules...

I hope you don't think i'm being overly defensive about the number generator, but i want to hammer it under the ground for good, because i think some of the misunderstanding of it comes from a fundamental difference between your personality and that of mine, not a question of strategic play.

The point here is that you don't hammer stuff under the ground in a game, even not from "random phases". Every post tells us something.

That is indeed more likely, and indeed slightly increases our chance of getting scum. Now that i see that... i feel better about not waiting around.
Just to superglue my feet to the soapbox though... in the case that the absentee is not scum, advancing to voting without everyone present is still disadvantageous, because that absentee can't help you find scum.

We are not finding a scum in two days. Or (s)he should screw up big time.

Why we shouldn't wait for replacements:
- extra time and possibilities of getting reads on people instead of waiting and posting stuff like "still waiting". Of course there are exceptions, such as 5 inactive people who need to be replaced, but we're not waiting for 1 player.
- even if the replacement is a scum, we get a read on other players.
- it's not as if 8 people are going to interrogate the other player all at once.

Why we should wait:
- we need the replacement for questions about the player slot.
- too many replacements at once.

I encourage everyone to read this quote of me defending ERIC in context. It's a kneejerked reaction to Barros aggressive vote on ERIC, in a tone that sounds pretty much ready to drop a hammer.

The context, from your end only and in my eyes, is
- "put UNI at L-3 (random)"
- "waaaa L-3 vote from Eric on me"
- "wee bit town eric vibez"

I'm with Moratorium on this.

If ERIC was lynched and clean,

The thing is; I feel that since you tied yourself to Eric and not vice versa, and in the case we should come to Eric vs pops or just a hypothetical situation, I feel that we should lynch you first.

guy0's post #75 expresses the same concerns there iirc.


Capricious; what do you think of pops?

mod

Replace martin, his last post on this site was Sept 21.

[popsofctown]

I've accepted the argument about waiting around. You've won. We shall not wait around.

If ERIC was lynched and clean,

The thing is; I feel that since you tied yourself to Eric and not vice versa, and in the case we should come to Eric vs pops or just a hypothetical situation, I feel that we should lynch you first.

mod

Replace martin, his last post on this site was Sept 21.

That sounds good and musical, but i don't actually see logic behind it.

I either tied myself to Eric because he's fellow scum, or for some other reason. If i did it because he's scum, it does not matter who you kill first. Doesn't matter at all. You kill one of us, he confirms the other. Town wins.

If i tied myself to Eric for any other reason, tying myself to Eric is no longer a tell. Being tied to a random townie isn't a scumtell.


I mean i can see where you get the initial reflexive feeling of, popsofctown breathed the words that caused suspicion, therefore he should be lynched. But in this specific case, that's not actually true.

Anywhoo, i don't think i've been doing enough to deny the relationship altogether (mostly because i'm afraid it's too entrenched). But if you look back at the incident in question, I blow up at Eric over a flippant vote. If i was fellow mafia would i be so concerned about that? Would i be expecting Eric to leave his vote there? No.. I probably would have made a joke vote of my own in some other direction maybe Capricious or Barros.

[popsofctown]

Oh, happy Scumday to Capricious!!

[Moratorium]

Your entire argument, everything you've said, everything that comes out of your mouth, is WIFOM. Making statements like

If i was fellow mafia would i be so concerned about that? Would i be expecting Eric to leave his vote there?

The answer is: Who cares! You could be, you know,

pretending

. That's kind of the point of the game.

You are consistently making arguments that go "Hey, if I was mafia, wouldn't I be doing exactly X, then Y, then Z? I'm not doing that, so obviously I'm town, right?". It's patently ridiculous.

[popsofctown]

ugh.... yeah it is kind of WIFOM.
I wanted to make some argument denying the link between me and ERIC... and there's not any that aren't WIFOMish, which is why i've mostly given up on fighting it.

I, however, have not consistently been making arguments that say i would do X, Y, and Z if i was mafia. I've used other hypathetical situations, but none of them are about what i would have done, they are what the town should do in each case.

[guy0]

The WIFOM argument you made just proves my theory so much more applicable. in post 79 you say

I either tied myself to Eric because he's fellow scum, or for some other reason.

If i did it because he's scum, it does not matter who you kill first. Doesn't matter at all. You kill one of us, he confirms the other. Town wins.

This is not true at all, like i said previously, you could be scum and not eric, meaning that if you convince us to lynch him, and he turns out to be town (which you hypothetically had known since you were, hypothetically, scum), you get granted immunity. You know that he would turn up as town since you would, hypothetically, be scum, thus ensuring yourself a case for your town loyalty.

I think i'm going to have to put a little more pressure on you and see what comes of it

vote popsofctown

[YOUNG ERIC]

you now seem extremely suspicous

vote popsofctown

[guy0]

pops is at L-1 right now, if anyone hammers him before he has a good chance to respond you will feel the heat of the fires of suspicion!! DO NOT HAMMER POPS YET!

[Capricious]

This whole wagon on pops smells heavily of cupcakes. Pops has posted the most of anyone, and granted, his posts are filled with WIFOM. This implies to me that he cares much about this game, which could be read differently depending on later events. However, he has not committed anything I read as scummy. The play of Young Eric is especially alarming, as he has committed the classic scum play, and I had initially felt YE was townish based on his aggressive play out of random phase.

[Capricious]

All on pops wagon: Point out case to me

WIFOM - NOT good case, everything is WIFOM reduced to purest forms

"Link with Young Eric" - Seriously? Links are 95% of the time (made-up stat) more subtle than that. Am I linked to Barros and pops because I didn't have a hammer-good reason to vote for them?

[Moratorium]

Scum are scared, moreso than town, scared out of their tight cupcake pants.

This whole wagon on pops smells heavily of cupcakes.

Your self-imposed post restriction is amusing. Assuming it is self-imposed... <?>

WIFOM - NOT good case, everything is WIFOM reduced to purest forms

If everything is WIFOM, all cases are WIFOM, hence all cases are not good. QED. Mafia is Hard!

I don't have a case against pops based on post #81. That was an expression of my incredulity at his gameplay. My case right now is nothing more than "I don't really like what I'm seeing from pops". I do, however, appreciate the information I am getting from the vote switches and bandwagon hopping I'm seeing without much justification.

[popsofctown]

The WIFOM argument you made just proves my theory so much more applicable. in post 79 you say

I either tied myself to Eric because he's fellow scum, or for some other reason.

If i did it because he's scum, it does not matter who you kill first. Doesn't matter at all. You kill one of us, he confirms the other. Town wins.

This is not true at all, like i said previously, you could be scum and not eric, meaning that if you convince us to lynch him, and he turns out to be town (which you hypothetically had known since you were, hypothetically, scum), you get granted immunity. You know that he would turn up as town since you would, hypothetically, be scum, thus ensuring yourself a case for your town loyalty.

I think i'm going to have to put a little more pressure on you and see what comes of it

vote popsofctown

Read the bolded quote from me again, you'll see that it's unarguably true. The precondition: "If i did it [protected Eric] because he's scum" - by necessity means that both Eric and I are scum.

However, I understand what you are saying, and i now get that that is what you were saying in the first place. You're saying, if Eric is lynched and clean, everyone will probably be like "whoa, were we wrong", and then i would probably get a disproportionally low amount of attention for a while.
Of course, now that you've mentioned that, you should offset that effect i think, suspicion would linger on me.
After following this excercise in thought, I realize how little information we as a town get from killing Eric. (or me..) All it does is dispel one conspiracy theory, and as you've now shown it doesn't even dispel all suspicions about my actions. My main reasons for wanting to vote him were that i think he's exhibited some scum tells, so i felt like "me or him, well Eric has done some iffy stuff i might as well go with the flow on this", but you've kind of shown me that's not really fair. He's exhibited some scum tells, but I'm not sure if i'm being fair any more. He isn't any fishier then Barros, and i'm partly pushing Eric in this "OMG get out of my sinking rowboat" kind of way. Is that really fair? i dunno right now.. It doesn't sound any purer than OMGUS votes, maybe it is purer somehow, but I'll revote Eric when i figure that out (or when i actually think he's the most suspicious player)

unvote

@moratorium: I think you are kind of saying "I vote for X, Y and Z" and in post #81 you were just saying: btw, i hate bad weak playstyle. (and you don't cite post 81 as part of your case against me) Is this interpretation correct?

@YOUNG ERIC: would you like to clarify what made me go from suspicious to extremely suspicious?

@Capricious: You deserve a cupcake because it's your scumday! (I don't really have any questions for you right now.)

@everyone: REMINDER: THE GAME IS CURRENTLY L-1
it's been mentioned but i want to be safe.... It's a newby game, and some of our late returners might be tempted to skim

[popsofctown]

@Capricious: Sorry i do have a question but you can finish your cupcake first: can you explain some of Eric's actions to me? Like i've said, he makes me suspicious but i don't see bald-obvious reasons he's scum. And Moratorium's case earlier on Barros seems equally convincing as the suspicions on Eric.

[popsofctown]

EBWOP: i didn't mean "can you explain some of Eric's actions to me"... that would be accounting for someone else's logic and is obviously not possible. I meant, can you explain how Eric's actions are scum tells?

[guy0]

I've noticed that although pops is seeming to be trying to direct the gunfire towards eric, we've overlooked eric's recent actions, like his vote on pops with a simple "he seems suspicious now" to get him to L-1. He may have been thinking that someone else would hammer pops and he wouldn't be blamed.

big FoS: young eric

[Capricious]

Moratorium, this is a newbie game, and there are no flavor considerations involved. Plus, does it seem reasonable that scum must say cupcakes in every post?

[YOUNG ERIC]

I do all of my typing and reading from my iPhone so excuse me if my posts tend to be short.

I have been trying to confuse and misdirect people in the game on purpose. In all honesty. I don't like popsofctown trying to imply that we're together so my last post was mostly a omgus vote. But because of some of the other comments you have made I have the strongest inclination that you are scum.

I will keep my vote

[Save The Dragons]

Seeking replacement for martin413 at the moment.

[My Milked Eek]

First, if I haven't already, I'd like to apologize for my big posts throughout the game. It appears I am from an entirely different timezone than everyone, so I can only post once to an entire batch of posts. I hope you understand =)

I either tied myself to Eric because he's fellow scum, or for some other reason. If i did it because he's scum, it does not matter who you kill first. Doesn't matter at all. You kill one of us, he confirms the other. Town wins.

If i tied myself to Eric for any other reason, tying myself to Eric is no longer a tell. Being tied to a random townie isn't a scumtell.

A scum wouldn't "tie" himself to another scum, that'd be stupid, or a big gambit. The point here is, as the others said, this is reduced to wifom. Don't type that much, just say "wifom", lol. Saves us all a few minutes.

popsofctown breathed the words that caused suspicion, therefore he should be lynched.

Do I smell some appeal to emotion? I don't think we're ready to lynch yet and I hope the others feel the same.

you now seem extremely suspicous

vote popsofctown

I'm not liking this.

This implies to me that he cares much about this game, which could be read differently depending on later events.

Caring != protown

His post frequency doesn't prove anything imo. And most of them are double/triple posts.

However, I do agree with you that this wagon shouldn't have made it to L-1 (yet).

"Link with Young Eric" - Seriously? Links are 95% of the time (made-up stat) more subtle than that. Am I linked to Barros and pops because I didn't have a hammer-good reason to vote for them?

Despite links being more subtle

most

of the time, you cannot deny pops tying himself to Eric there, which is, unrelated to his alignment, a doubtful thing to do.

And for the case; as Moratorium somewhat said it; it's fun to see the people jump on and even L-1 him without much reason, apart from "the others said so". Fun in an informative way mind you, not a sadistic way.

My main reasons for wanting to vote him were that i think he's exhibited some scum tells

Ok, tell us these tells.

but I'll revote Eric when i figure that out (or when i actually think he's the most suspicious player)

unvote

The dude put you at L-1 without a solid reason, other than "yeah... what they said". You don't think he's suspicious? I'm surprised no one else (except cap) is taking Eric's votepost the wrong way.

I do all of my typing and reading from my iPhone so excuse me if my posts tend to be short.

All

of them?
Don't have another access way to the internet?

I have been trying to confuse and misdirect people in the game on purpose.

What?

Honestly, what were you thinking when trying to confuse us? And how? Why?

This alone could have you lynched, LaL (Lynch all Liars), which I'm sure could include deceivers.

I don't like popsofctown trying to imply that we're together so my last post was mostly a omgus vote. But because of some of the other comments you have made I have the strongest inclination that you are scum.

You were afraid that we might have lynched you first, like pops subtly (ok not subtly) suggested. That's why you omgus'd and L-1'd him.

'

some other comments

'? Do elaborate.

Look, I don't like your recent cupcake nor the last two posts.

So I'm going to

uncupcake

because I don't want the day to end right now.

And I'm going to

cupcake: YOUNG ERIC

reasons being
- disturbing L-1 vote
- deliberately (did I get that right?) "deceiving" people

These are, at least to me, more disturbing actions than tying yourself to someone or using wifom as a defense.

[My Milked Eek]

Seriously dough, mod...

That was

Unvote. Vote: Eric

.

[Moratorium]

Moratorium, this is a newbie game, and there are no flavor considerations involved. Plus, does it seem reasonable that scum must say cupcakes in every post?

I was being facetious, Capricious. Stop being so specious.

[Moratorium]

Finger of Deliciousness: YOUNG ERIC

I'm digging the pops+Eric scumbuddy theory right now, but I'm willing to see how things evolve here.