Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Force of Nature]

I have rereading to do, but I'll ramble a bit about stuff I've been pondering:
Signs both wagons were on scum:
1. Wagonees reluctant to lynch each other.
2. A scumwagon won out (it's difficult for scum vs town with lots of votes on each to result in a scumlynch D1)
3. Lots of attempts to start flashwagons.

Signs Triangle was bussed:
1. Wagon members were scummy players.
2. Yates did that "I'm locking in my vote on Triangle and am now going to be puff the magic lurker until I get some cred from that flip" thing.
3. Several other votes were locked on Triangle forever including Reck (powerbusser extraordinaire), Grimm, Soda.
4. Triangle was a very bussable player and responded to her wagon like a player who was getting bussed (not fighting as hard, etc)
5. Most people not on the Triangle wagon were respectably town.

I'm guessing it was either one on one off or two on with Pinescum.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

@FoN: I've played a good deal with Reck now, and I don't think he'd be willing to consider anyone other than Triangle at this point unless the Triangle wagon dies for today.

If SK were to flip Town, I'd support a D2 Triangle lynch with all of the evidence thus far presented returning in full force. If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle.

Hence why I'd prefer SK, then Triangle or Soda depending on flip.

@Implosion: Yes, good case. Soda is probably scum,

but isn't the lynch for today

Fuck it! There's conditional modifiers attached to the SK-Triangle relationship, and I'm a lot more confident of Soda at this point than I am of either SK or Triangle.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Obvscum first, then probscum, then conditionally-scum.

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum.

SKrew is a good alternative.

Excuse me?

[Force of Nature]

VOTE: Pine

Though Soda isn't totally unreasonable.
THERE IS MUCH TO DO.

[Furcolow]

vote: pine

[Pine]

SKrew scum would have cleared Triangle, but not the other way around.

[Force of Nature]

Uh... Contrapositive

[Pine]

Uh, no. The statement from SKrew that I thought might be a slip was him implying that Triangle was Town. Triangle made no similar statement about SKrew. It's not the same.

[Force of Nature]

You said "If SleepyScum is true then TriangleTown is true"
TriangleTown was revealed to be false, so Sleepyscum cannot have been true without creating a contradiction.

I thought the whole 'sleepy slipped triangle's townhood' thing was dumb in the first place.

[Pine]

Dude, you're way overanalyzing this. And I did

not

say that. SK implied Triangle was Town. Triangle did not do the same. It's a one-way logical deduction that has no bearing anymore.

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not necessarily a square.

[Force of Nature]

"If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle"
Is pretty darn equivalent to "If sleepyscum is true than triangletown is true."
You definitely made a contradicty read-thingy.

[Pine]

No, I didn't. I know exactly what I meant, and trying to rephrase it incorrectly doesn't change that. So fuck off.

[Pine]

I want a response from everyone not listed below on this - When I flip Town, will you go back and re-read my opinions, and lynch Soda, Sleepy Krew, and maybe Triangle?

I say "maybe" Triangle, because if Sleepy Krew is scum as I suspect, then this...

Nah, I'd prefer a scumflip first.

...may be interpreted as a slip clearing Triangle. If you don't see it, you don't really deserve to, but I'll spell it out. By suggesting he wants a scumflip first, he's specifically implying that Triangle

won't

be a scumflip.

Again, I want promises from everyone voting for me that they'll take my reads seriously.

This is the original quote. It does not say anything about what impact Triangle flipping scum would have on my opinion of SKrew. Triangle flipped Town, which disproved my original hypothesis and caused the logical construct to fall apart. The quote from SKrew was not a slip clearing Triangle. Period. All of the other remarkably scummy things SKrew has done still stand on their own. There is no equivalent dichotomy between SKrew and Triangle.

[Furcolow]

unvote

[Furcolow]

I like Pine's defense

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum. SKrew is a good alternative.

This is a bad vote.

Vote: Force of Nature

This is a better vote, but still bad.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

This is terrible.

unvote

This is probably the best thing posted in the thread so far.

[Force of Nature]

You said that if Sleepy was scum, he may have slipped Triangle being town.
This was why you thought Sleepyscum meant Triangle town.
Sure nothing is 100%, but if you say A scum means B town and B flips scum, A is now less likely to be scum.
This is dumb.

So who's scum Nacho?

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum. SKrew is a good alternative.

This is a bad vote.

Vote: Force of Nature

This is a better vote, but still bad.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

This is terrible.

unvote

This is probably the best thing posted in the thread so far.

This is a bad post.

Also, FoN's questioning of Pine is downright fucking terrible.

[SleepyKrew]

FoN, Pine is right. That said,
VOTE: Pine
wtf FurcoNacho

[Nachomamma8]

1. Wagon members were scummy players.

If the Triangle wagon was a wagon formed of mostly scum and the Pine wagon was a wagon formed of mostly town and both wagons were on scum, then the Pine wagon would have won out. Scum would NOT expose a lurky, but mostly ignored, member of their team in order to save Pine, who was already under heavy suspicion (especially if there were AT MOST 2 scum on his wagon). They would also not just stick on a scumwagon and ignore the "flashwagons" that popped up. They would give their support to a TOWN wagon. The only reason they would decide to bus as opposed to switching is if they were actually pushing the triangle wagon along (they weren't), or if they had no opportunities to switch (they did). Why the HELL would any scum player anywhere let their scumpartner get lynched with a ridiculously unorganized town without even an effort to kill anyone else?

2. Yates did that "I'm locking in my vote on Triangle and am now going to be puff the magic lurker until I get some cred from that flip" thing.

Yates is town, but I'll explain that later. For now, this will do:

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

I have a crystal-clear idea of what the scumteam is. Soda-SK-Triangle. I am willing to lynch any of the three of them, and have maintained that for a long time now.

Wait... If you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam being Soda, Sleepy, and Triangle, then why wouldn't you have any reason to think implosion is town? Wouldn't that make him town by default? What in the hay-ell is your motive for trying to keep implosion from looking town when you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam that doesn't include him?

I think I was hasty reading Pine as town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pine

3. Several other votes were locked on Triangle forever including Reck (powerbusser extraordinaire), Grimm, Soda.

Reck, powerbusser extraordinare:

We have 48 hours for this to work. I'm getting cold feet on triangle due to the VT claim but SK's terribad tunneling on Pine is too much to ignore coupled with the complete dissonance in the past few pages

He's desperate for a mislynch and when he couldn't get Pine (who he supposedly thought was scum) lynched, he started aiming for Grimmjow, who is fairly inactive ATM.

This is a powerlynch if I've ever seen one.

I'm getting cold feet on triangle due to the VT claim

clearly I'm not too keen on triangle scum anymore so maybe you just aren't reading

As for Grimm and Soda, they AREN'T powerbussers extraordinaire and had plenty of chances to move off to a flashwagon. Why didn't they?

4. Triangle was a very bussable player and responded to her wagon like a player who was getting bussed (not fighting as hard, etc)

We've established that Triangle was a very new player. Does it honestly surprise you that she just sort of rolled over and tried to lurk out of pressure? Have you ever played a newbie game before?

5. Most people not on the Triangle wagon were respectably town.

Then why the hell didn't the Pine wagon go through? You think that the scum made a concerted effort to save Pine?

[Nachomamma8]

FoN, Pine is right. That said,
VOTE: Pine
wtf FurcoNacho

Oh, sorry. Let's just kill the counterwagon to a scumlynch with the cases from yesterday. That's a brilliant idea.

[xRECKONERx]

Viable Lynches:

FoN
Sleepykrew
Alex

Because so far my viable lynch list has 100% accuracy so why stop now

Not to mention ALL THREE OF THEM were ALL ABOUT lynching obvtown Pine and defending scum hardcore

Also FoN's #750 is just planting the seeds of "oh hey look how easy I can jump to any of the following five wagons today" so he doesn't look scummy in doing so

[Force of Nature]

Haha Reck, you're not going to lynch me today.
I may not have been on the scum wagon at lynchtime yesterday, but even Pine / Nacho seem to be aware I towned pretty hard.

I wasn't mainly voting Pine for his reads-inconsistency, but it is something that bothers me.
And it was definitely worth pushing on.
VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Uphill

Comes into the game, makes an aggressive attack against implosion for "completely ignoring the guy he's voting". Gives half-assed reads on a few other people, backs down after a quick exchange with implosion. Goes on a short lurker hunt without pursuing anyone else, then finally, near deadline, makes a left-field vote on pine without much of a reason, disappears. Has an absolute minimal interaction with Triangle who was the LYNCH OF THE DAY, which is made especially weird considering the lurker hunt he was making earlier. He never really explains the reason why he unvotes implosion, and the switch from kondi to Pine is pretty damn opportunistic, as shown by the fact that there's nothing leading up to it and no follow up AT ALL.

[Nachomamma8]

Haha Reck, you're not going to lynch me today.
I may not have been on the scum wagon at lynchtime yesterday, but even Pine / Nacho seem to be aware I towned pretty hard.

I wasn't mainly voting Pine for his reads-inconsistency, but it is something that bothers me.
And it was definitely worth pushing on.
VOTE: SleepyKrew

Why the switch?

[Force of Nature]

As I said, I have a lot of reading to do. I ISOed sleepykrew and liked him as a Trianglebuddy.
Uphill's next on account of you voting for him.

[Nachomamma8]

Yates:
Yates:

Wow, Triangle. You are pushing pretty hard for no reason and with no evidence. Wait - I put a hyphen in my post. Oh! And an ellipses... Those are surely scum tells. Now I see your rationale.

You'll notice that I didn't have a vote on the board [other than no lynch] expressly because I didn't feel as though there was any evidence to substantiate a vote. I'm not even bothered by people calling me scum or potential scum or scummy or whatever they want. That's how a discovery phase works. While I acknowledge that I'm not a fan of the sarcasm or tone of FoN or Sleepy's posts, I at least understand what they are trying to do. In fact, I believe that their pressure may have borne fruit in exposing YOU.

Vote: Triangle

Suspicious to me at present:
1. Triangle - Looks like you are trying to exploit a general distrust of Yates as seemingly the 2nd or 3rd option for players [190, 215, 224+225, 229+230, 237]. Plus, voting for a noob is the easy way out.

No one is going to defend someone they don't know or particularly care for/about.

This is NOT a response to being attacked by a scumpartner. First and foremost, look at the bolded. It's a me-against-the-world response, which doesn't happen with new scum because THEY HAVE PARTNERS. This post also has the general tone of "I'm playing perfectly, you have no reason to attack me" as opposed to "Wait, WHY are you attacking me?" which is more typical of a new player getting bussed. There's also the small little detail of Triangle deciding to attack Yates under pressure, and new player knee-jerk response under pressure is very, very rarely to vote a partner.

In addition, he is an EpicMafia player, and they usually burn out early in a day phase. This is a pretty typical response, and I wouldn't call it POWERLURKING, especially since his constant reassurances of "my vote isn't moving" means he isn't avoiding the thread.