Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 8:41 am

Post by Formerfish »

I used it on Who n0, I forgot to send in an action n1, and I will confirm that it was used on n2.
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 9:22 am

Post by MTD »

I currently see no reason to assume the double Mr Darcy pick has anything to do with alignment.
Juls confirming part of NS' claim is
nice
but doesn't really help either.
Also, I was already thinking it was unlikely to have FFs
and
NSs role in one game but now they say they
both
"forgot" to send in an action N1? Just what the hell?
still the same old MTD
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 9:32 am

Post by Juls »

I thought NS didn't use it because he didn't know what it did. I think I need to reread this game this weekend!
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 10:04 am

Post by MTD »

In post 752, Juls wrote:I thought NS didn't use it because he didn't know what it did. I think I need to reread this game this weekend!
Uh, you are right, my bad...
still the same old MTD
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 11:00 am

Post by Formerfish »

Ok this is where I am right now. NS is scum to me until proven otherwise. Too much pings for me to let that read go. His reads list from yesterday that he still has yet to talk about, not including a town wincon with his claim, the confusion about some of his abilities, him turning into the only character I sent in (and mentioned in my claim), him waiting til n2 to use the ability on himself, the convenient gun aspect of his role that makes no sense because of the missing battery other than it soft clears himself and LC. And if he is telling the truth he basically became a vanilla when he passed on the ability right? So let's lynch his ass and stop pussy footing about this.

And he is voting me right now? How does that even work with his read on me? Even if he is now unsure is it really town motivated to off a confirmed PR?
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 11:16 am

Post by Empking »

Vote Count Thirty-One: You're a flirty one/u]

Cho (2)- LowerCase, Jul
Nobody Special (1) - FormerFish
FormerFish (1) - Nobody Special

Not Voting: Kagami, Cho, MTD, LoudMouthLee, Belisarius

With Nine alive, it is Five to lynch

(expired on 2014-06-13 07:36:50)
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 3:41 pm

Post by Formerfish »

I'll be here off and on for the rest of the night if anyone actually wants to try and sort some of this shit out.
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 3:42 pm

Post by Belisarius »

In post 736, Formerfish wrote:No I did not.
Then I fail to see how the flavour name duplication is relevant. 1v1 rejected.

I'm a wee bit surprised to see people wanting to hear from me specifically, especially after yesterday's massive wrongtrain on my part. Do you think I'm holding the solution to the game?

I don't even know how to vote yet. I won't be autovoting NS on Fish's say so alone. I sure as fuck ain't voting Fish. Maybe Cho out of sheer lack of inspiration, but that's a shite reason to vote, so I'm not laying a vote down until I get something better unless it's a dlh.
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2014 7:22 pm

Post by Formerfish »

Beli, I wanted you to weigh in on things because games tend to suck when it is the same 4 people playing and making 90% of the posts. Especially when scum are active in that small grouping. Things tend to happen when bad people have the loudest voices. They tend to come off as charismatic and drive others to make bad choices in the name of false prophets. Think Hitler and the Nazis.

Also I'm a little lost as to how me not sending on more than 1 pick makes the duplication null in void. Walk me through your dismissal here.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 5:33 am

Post by Belisarius »

Easy; if both of you only sent in one pick, then how would you
not
have the same flavour name?

I've never modded a upick before, but if I were in a scenario where two players sent in the same pick and no alternatives, that's how I'd do it. The WIFOM thus visited on the players would be of their own making, so nobody could rightfully complain about it, but with any other method, someone could. Give one person their pick and randomly assign a character to the other? The one with the random assignment would see that as unfair. Give both random assignments? If either player /inned for the game specifically because it was a upick, they might complain. Give both exactly what they asked for, and if anyone complains, Emp can just say "you lie in the bed you make."
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 5:41 am

Post by Formerfish »

That would make sense except for the fact that Nobody has already said that Darcy was
one
of his picks. And I've played in two other upicks here, each of them required a list of choices and one would be picked from that list.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 5:48 am

Post by Kagami »

NS claims to have sent in many picks, so it's definitely odd. Normally, the mod would prob just make NS one of his secondary choices.

So far, I don't even see the point of our picks being limited to JA/GoT, nor any reason why there can't be two darcys, so it's not clear to me how that's alignment indicative.

Emp might even have thought it inappropriate to take a secondary pick since he didn't request or receive multiple picks from other players, idk
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 6:04 am

Post by Belisarius »

Ah. Could have sworn NS only sent in one, too.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 6:29 am

Post by Juls »

I don't know how indicative of alignment it is but it may explain why their beginning roles are so close?
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 9:57 am

Post by Lowercase »

My main issue with this line of reasoning is that I just don't see what NS would be covering up.

If we assume he's lying, he must have either targeted his partner or Geists. I don't really see why he would cover up the first one, and it would be pretty baffling for him to target Geists when he was the NK (also, would Geists even flip VT if he was targeted?) I could see it as some sort of attempt at a track dodge, but this would only make sense if he thought both he and his partner had high odds of being tracked.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 10:23 am

Post by Kagami »

The only really alignment indicative explanation I can think of is that NS zapped someone else (scumbuddy) and/or the zapper doesn't actually transform you into your pick. Then NS would have claimed to have transformed into Darcy believing that this is the correct way to claim this, not realizing that FF had already revealed his pick as Darcy.

I just think that's less likely than the possibility that two players were allowed to potentially be Darcy
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 11:19 am

Post by Juls »

Lowercase and Kagami: You may have already addressed this but I have been too busy to go back and reread so I am going from memory. This applies to both fish and NS. Suppose neither is lying about their role. Is it possible for one to be scum and one to be town? I haven't played mafia in a long while but when I would play as scum, I only once or twice flat out lied about my role. More often I would simply claim my role with some details omitted or changed in order for it to look more town aligned.

The thing I am faced with here is that I have an independent town read on fish and a independent scum read on NS so I tend to think NS is the one that's lying. I don't know anything about Mr. Darcy. Is he a type of character that would be two-sided? Or, in other words, have a good and a bad side?
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 11:56 am

Post by Kagami »

Well sure, he's the "pride" of pride and prejudice, which he overcomes by the novels conclusion.

I would think that it's not only possible for one to be scum and one to be town, but likely. I'm trying to think through which one. NS's behavior as town is far from "townish," but that's par for the course for him. I've been in two games with NS (me as scum, him as town in both of them), and he always seemed like an easy mislynch (though I did NK him in one because I thought he was a PR). His role as he's claimed it, which is to some extent confirmed, seems very much like a town role to me, whereas we have no such confirmation with regard to FF's.

Some aspects of FF's play do seem unlikely as scum, but I'm more than a little concerned that he didn't die last night (yes, WIFOM, blah blah blah).
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:07 pm

Post by Lowercase »

I doubt either is lying about their role. The only question is whether NS is lying about his night action. As it is, I see little motive for this and I agree with kagami's point that passing is a town-oriented mechanic.

From a balance perspective, it seems like their roles probably have similar power to inventors. If this is the case, it would suggest a pretty high likelihood that they are cross-aligned. That said, we don't know how powerful the scum-team is and the only thing I know for sure about the effect of their actions is that Fish pretty clearly nerfed me. I could see both being town perhaps, but not both scum.

p-edit: I doubt characters are alignment indicative, and I'm somewhat inclined to believe that the duplicate is just a funny coincidence.
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:19 pm

Post by Juls »

Lowercase, remind me of exactly what you were and exactly what you became.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:22 pm

Post by Lowercase »

I was a gunsmith, became a one-shot snowballing investigator/protective. Night one, I could have reported or bodyguard'd, but who saved the role. Night two, I could doc or track, I tracked LML. My role is now used up.
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:27 pm

Post by Juls »

OK. I though I remembered it being an only N0 gunsmith. So it was a full fledged gunsmith then?
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:28 pm

Post by Lowercase »

Who believed he changed due to a hidden role mechanic, which is why he said N0. My role PM never said anything to that effect.
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:29 pm

Post by Juls »

Did you get to see Who's original role PM?
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Sat May 31, 2014 12:32 pm

Post by Lowercase »

Yeah, just a gunsmith and that after night 0 I got a new role PM.
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