Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Ame]

[Ame]

Ame

, you saying I'm town automatically is not fluff, unless you didn't mean that?

And the rest of the stuff is fluffy, but I'm not going to jump onto a person's ISO and find everything that isn't 100% game content to be full of fluff. You don't register as someone who's filling the thread with content that doesn't provide much.

It's just that that was a good portion of what I had posted by the time you made that statement. Those weren't just posts that I cherry picked. The first 8 or so posts I made in the game were pretty in-your-face contentless despite the game state having moved beyond RVS. So it's off to me that you specifically said that I wasn't posting any fluff at the time and makes suspect that the read was based off insincere reasoning.

[Luca Blight]

I’m feeling a little better about Ame after her recent posting.

UNVOTE:

Pops, Math, Tom. These are the players I’m most interested in right now. I’ll do some more Iso’ing.

[Luca Blight]

The only thing that seemed good from Tom so far was his Paragon case, but as Ame highlighted it was actually saying such and such is scummy without explaining why any of it is scummy.

I’ll try this for size.

VOTE: Aloratom

[Luca Blight]

Tom/Pops would make sense as partners.

[Taco]

I’m gonna pick up where I left off in the morning. TFT and animal crossing have been taking all my time up

[Luca Blight]

I’ve played with Town!tom before and he had consistently good insights and contributions, which have been sorely lacking his game. He has been sitting back and avoiding taking a stance on most things that have occurred unless prodded to do so. The exception is the Paragon/Conspire thing which, again, looks like surface level shade without any deeper thought behind it as to why those things are scum-indicative.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Aloratom, who is your strongest townread and why? Thank you very much.

1

Not much more than a Town lean on anyone right now. Wiisp v Robb seems TvT, but that's not original. Neither seems afraid of confrontation. Pops' "reverse survivalism" puts a label on it.

If you're talking about mine, a more precise question would have helped actually. "I need a second pair of eyes there," doesn't tell me much.

heh, I guess so. Yeah, I just want another opinion on when I began scumreading

Pops

so I can have new context when I re-ISO and I won't feel like I'm tunneling, or unjustly doing so.

Looking at that 1v1 in a vacuum, it looks TvT to me. I understand Pops' principle point about the burden of a good player -- the better you are the more there is expected of you. And looking at it from your point of view, it looked like you were getting lost in the Mafia game jargon. I think there was some miscommunication, but I didn't see any misrepresentations by either of you, just debate.

That’s twice Tom’s put arguments down as TvT. I’ve always found this to be a lazy way of sorting that is often characteristic of scum, as it enables them to skip over most of what’s been said without needing to take much of a stance on it. Tom’s view on Pop has been a bit weird all game tbh, hence my comment that I feel they could be partners.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah I don't know that I'm seeing as much scum in pops as some are. More like obstinate town. She's rubbing people the wrong way, and her copping the post restriction to make a point was odd, but she's right about Fuzzy and about Y'shtola. Fuzzy started strong and has since been MIA, and Y'shtola's role seems to be to stand by and wait for things to happen. Pops may be off-putting, but I'm not scum reading her right now.

I don’t see this view or Pops as ‘obstinate town’. And why isn’t Paragon obstinate town by the same token?

Tom is agreeing with Pops’s view on Fuzzy/Rhul, so why is Tom not pushing these players?

[Luca Blight]

Luca Blight, anything you’d like to discuss?

What do you think about him wanting to lynch Fuzzy?

I’m unsure of the purpose behind this question - it feels as though by asking this question he is distancing himself from a Fuzzy wagon/lynch, but as we saw above he clearly agrees with Pops’ view on Fuzzy.

[Luca Blight]

Aloratom plays very differently as mafia. He likes to buddy people and feels inclined to fabricate reads. Here, he is honest about what's he's thinking and is not presenting and of the aforementioned behaviour. His push on me was in good faith.

Conspire has not posted much, but I really like their style. This might be more of a personality read than an alignment one.

7

You're still doing it. You need to stop both gimmicks. Your self-imposed post cap is just part of a bigger picture.

Sorry, I saw the chance and I had to take it. Why do you think me doing that is scum-indicative? I'm just having some fun.

Giving reads for a player who isn't in the game is not only confusing, it's deceiving those repping in, and it skews how people view your reads as well as their own. If one of us is going on a snipe hunt and insists that others follow them, I can conclude only that they aren't interested in scum hunting but in discouraging others from doing so.

I feel as though Tom is exaggerating the issue here, and is being disingenuous in basing Paragon’s whole play on the gimmick and writing it off as being uninterested in scumhunting, when Paragon has clearly done more scumhunting than most this game.

[eyestott]

What do you think of Tom?

I find that I develop much stronger reads on people when I've interacted with them, so can I answer this question after I talk with Tom?

I feel like I'm at the grocery every time I scroll down to your avatar. I haven't ISOed you yet. Who is in your lynch pool?

To be honest, I'm not sure anymore. My scumreads on Fuzzy, Pops and Paragon have all weakened.

You know, I think I'm the only person in the game now that hasn't been the subject of a serious scumread and associating case against them.
I mean that no one has yet been like "Heres why eyestott is scum: yada yada yada"
It's good in that I can focus on reading people without also having to watch my back, but am I missing out on an integral part of the Mafia experience?

Anyways, hopefully I'll have a bit more clarity with my reads by the end of the night. Let's go!

[eyestott]

Spoiler:

Reasons for my gut scumread on Taly:

• A lot of these are based on tone and are hard to articulate.
  
• I want others to let me know if I'm stupid for scumreading someone for these posts, or if they get similar feelings.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

tElL mE mOrE aBoUt BeInG a ToWn PoTaTo

@tali
Ok Wooper

hehe, do you have more to add than

"I don't do RVS"

and

"tali!"

,

wiiiiiiiissppppppppi

?

Robb -- You feeling this game yet?

Why ask Robb this of everyone?

If you guys are best buds, I need to know now so that I can try and kill you together.

Robb's a good guy. As far as I know there's no reason to lol either of us.

hehe, I can lol you both after I'm done with

Taco

, don't worry

y'all are gettin' some fuckin' homework assignments from me

LOL

I have NOT read a game you're in recent memory. Join date doesn't mean much to me above someone having like 1-2 games of mafia in

Y'shtola's

case. (((I thought you wanted to talk about her vote on

Fuzzy

btw?))))

Paragon

, calm with the role and setup spec... we don't need to give scum anymore information and there's nothing we can do as town about roles at this moment.

This was in response to 205. I don't see how talking about the number of scum in the game (information that is apparent to scum) is detrimental to talk about.

:/ Other than this I'm really just waiting for

Rabid/Fuzzy/Taco/Robb

to engage and

eyestott/Ame

to continue their reads/explanations.

goodnight lovelies, I'm loving the game momentum. It's a good mix between low and high energy that isn't chaotic or unnecessary.

No one has PTs with just the town aligned players, so why are attempts at deception necessarily targeted at other townies and not the mafia?
VOTE: Robbnva for a potential perspective slip.

I also have a post restriction to my role, but it doesn't trigger unless Y'shtola votes me.

Yo, Y'shtola, mind voting Pops and testing this claim?

p-edit

Did two people replace out because I fake claimed a post restriction? I just don't understand

wtf

oh my god

i just got mindfucked

Above 4 posts are

maybe

dumbtelling.

lol I genuinely was writing 479 and asking myself

"is it as easy as

pops/fuzzy/paragon

?"

Fuzzy, Taco, Rabid's replacement should be the three wagons.

LOL, nope. Townread deleted.

Not only is this NOT all the people who replaced, but why are you placing emphasis on low activity slots / replacements? There's tons of information and accusation to absolve in this thread and your first response is to retreat to slots that have the least impact OR suspected you?

I'm not buying it. Plus, why should there be 3 wagons? Aren't we trying to get a consensus on one?

Also, replacements should be given a fair chance to put their stake - why are you emphasizing a preemptive push there beyond sorting their slot any further.

I don't want to lynch outside of Pops/Paragon/Fuzzy today.

@Taly
Fine Lynch, me i dont care... I trying to do the best I can. I m not going to fake reads and thoughts to make yall happy. It takes a bit for me to put my thoughts together/ I know I not super helpful atm. I am not like you and can make instant-reads. If yall cant understand that than just it over with......

Also how am any worse/ scummier then those who are jumping on the easiest wagon available and making zero reason to explain why.???

I think Paragon is newbtown. that is the vibe I am getting from him, I gues he could be newbscum but my potato senses is telling me newb town.

Btw- I was right about Paragon in post 388- (So there that)

Can people stop AtE'ing me at any point I ask for their perspective or tap them?

I don't see anything scummy there, Para. This just looks like emotive language.

[eyestott]

UNVOTE:

I need a reset.
I'm starting my reads from scratch again.
@

everyone

: Let's say that you lose all your memories of what has thus far transpired in this game and all your reads. However, you get to keep one of your reads that you currently have (be it a town read or a scum read), and the reasoning behind it.
Which one would you choose to keep your memory of?

[Paragon]

Paragon, the issue with your scumread on me is that it's purely based off tonal gut feelings that can't be defended against. The fact that you're not even pushing your vote on me while you scumread me is because you're positioning yourself, listing reasons to doubt my alignment without actually engaging with me. It's mislynchbaity.

I know that, and it's why I'm not voting for you. I'd rather have others weigh in, since I may just be scumreading you for completely NAI things.

I have engaged with you; I feel like I've answered more questions from you than anyone else this game.

[Paragon]

Taly, what are your thoughts on NDMath?

The Dancer in Black

[Paragon]

It's mislynchbaity.

Are you suggesting I'm trying to set you up for a mislynch? Several people have you as a strong townread. Why do you get that impression rather me just voicing any concerns I have?

Spoiler:

[NDMath]

He’s got a gimmick. I normally hate gimmicks but this one isn’t annoying

Implied a recruiting ability in 46
Hinted at an investigative in 70
Hinted at Miller in 73
Macho Cop 93
Roleblocker 156
145 in retrospect was Paragon talking to himself and not being clear about asking Wiisp a question
164 was a disingenuous question to me when it could have been cleared up by just saying a mistake was made
197 claims to have a question quota role in a normal game
And 38 is still a scummy post

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the L-1 test, but it all adds up to scummy behavior to me.

VOTE: Paragon

NDMath, could you explain what you found bad about this attack on me? I don't think it implies Aloratom is scared of mechanics like you mentioned, it looks more like Aloratom is suspicious of me for fake-crumbing/causing confusion as scum.

Additionally, do you mind explaining what you found weird about popsofctown's defense of me? You were also townreading me at the time of writing that.

VOTE: NDMath to show respect.

How is that confusing, it's clearly just a play style thing which is easy to ignore? And its really not take-crumbing, more so openly softing. Like a vt doesn't care what anyone's roles is until they hard claim. (When I said that I didn't realize you were claiming the question quota as part of your role.) Then there is no explanation of what about this case is different which makes you scummy. Overall the attack is just a bunch of "he did this" and "he did that" with no justification for why this or that is scummy.
It looked like pops was trying to save you by also claiming a post restriction and then he awkwardly retracted it.
Now I'm more so scumreading you on your reaction to people pushing you for being confusing, and your Tali push. For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

And I think each of my posts the past few pages have fallen on deaf ears aside from

Pops/Alo/Ame

, and I scumread one.

I'm listening. I just agree too much to say anything on them.

[Paragon]

For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

The former:

I've explained and addressed things here. Do you think I was intentionally causing confusion as scum in the hopes to derail discussion? Do you think the negative attention would not offset me from doing that as scum?

The latter:

Taly recently asked to townbloc with me. I posts I've quoted all have a similar theme, in that I read them as

faked

- for lack of a better word. Others don't seem to see what I'm seeing though, so I'll drop that line of reasoning and try not to consider it in my read of Taly.

[Luca Blight]

I can see what you’re seeing, Paragon. I don’t trust Taly yet, but there are bigger fish to fry atm.

[Paragon]

Nice! And yes, I agree.

Could you link me Tom's town-game that you've referred to? The scum-game I've seen of his is very different to this.

[Luca Blight]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81952

[Aloratom]

I’ve played with Town!tom before and he had consistently good insights and contributions, which have been sorely lacking his game. He has been sitting back and avoiding taking a stance on most things that have occurred unless prodded to do so. The exception is the Paragon/Conspire thing which, again, looks like surface level shade without any deeper thought behind it as to why those things are scum-indicative.

I lost my grip on this game pretty early on due to people talking about things that I don't understand, referring to what I presume are games or comics or anime or something -- and using jargon and acronyms I'm not familiar with. In the normal course, I'd ask for explanations, but it's been overwhelming this game, so I've just let it go for the most part. I'm a bit lost. You're absolutely correct that I've been sitting back and letting the game come to me. The two most substantive posts that I've had, as you pointed out, have been about Paragon. The first was early on and listed several things that he did to deceive not just me but the entire Town. As a whole, the items that I listed equated to behavior that stood out to me as something Town wouldn't do to other Town. With regard to the first two gimmicks (the post cap gimmick and the imaginary player gimmick -- not the new LARPing gimmick), after called on both gimmicks, he continued the behavior on the more egregious imaginary player gimmick and had the gall to continue to refer to his alt as if it were a player in this game. That's not Town behavior. It's rubbish deception, and I wasn't the only one hoodwinked by it. By labeling my push on him as shade, you are minimizing the effect of Paragon's behavior and its effect on the game. You indicate that Paragon has been doing more scum hunting than most, and I'll eventually go back and take a look at that. I just haven't been following along that closely because the posting has been ridiculously silly.

Spoiler:

Aloratom, who is your strongest townread and why? Thank you very much.

1

Not much more than a Town lean on anyone right now. Wiisp v Robb seems TvT, but that's not original. Neither seems afraid of confrontation. Pops' "reverse survivalism" puts a label on it.

If you're talking about mine, a more precise question would have helped actually. "I need a second pair of eyes there," doesn't tell me much.

heh, I guess so. Yeah, I just want another opinion on when I began scumreading

Pops

so I can have new context when I re-ISO and I won't feel like I'm tunneling, or unjustly doing so.

Looking at that 1v1 in a vacuum, it looks TvT to me. I understand Pops' principle point about the burden of a good player -- the better you are the more there is expected of you. And looking at it from your point of view, it looked like you were getting lost in the Mafia game jargon. I think there was some miscommunication, but I didn't see any misrepresentations by either of you, just debate.

That’s twice Tom’s put arguments down as TvT. I’ve always found this to be a lazy way of sorting that is often characteristic of scum, as it enables them to skip over most of what’s been said without needing to take much of a stance on it. Tom’s view on Pop has been a bit weird all game tbh, hence my comment that I feel they could be partners.

This is a generalization and indirect accusation that would hold more sincerity if taken up with me directly. Rather than asking me why I took a certain position, you label me as scum in a discussion with someone else because "this is something scum would do." You don't even get at the substance of the matter, other than my stance on Pops has been weird all game. What stance on Pops? My two or so posts, one where I call her obstinate Town and one where I tell Taly that I think their 1v1 was a TvT? Have I said anymore than that about Pops' alignment?

Yeah I don't know that I'm seeing as much scum in pops as some are. More like obstinate town. She's rubbing people the wrong way, and her copping the post restriction to make a point was odd, but she's right about Fuzzy and about Y'shtola. Fuzzy started strong and has since been MIA, and Y'shtola's role seems to be to stand by and wait for things to happen. Pops may be off-putting, but I'm not scum reading her right now.

I don’t see this view or Pops as ‘obstinate town’. And why isn’t Paragon obstinate town by the same token?

Tom is agreeing with Pops’s view on Fuzzy/Rhul, so why is Tom not pushing these players?

I get the impression that Pops is trying to drill down on everyone, although there haven't appeared to have been terrifically strong pushes. I call her obstinate town as she's the type of player to get under the skin of whomever she's engaged with while Paragon is just annoying. Pops' questions appear to shake people more than Paragon's.

With regard to Fuzzy, I could make a push, but why do I need to add to the pile on? I'm not going to do it just to prove that I'm Town. From what I've seen everyone else is doing a fine job taking them to task -- I've got nothing to add. And you've read Y'shtola's posts. Do you know what she's on about? Passive is how I'd describe her. I can't see how that's even an issue.

Luca Blight, anything you’d like to discuss?

What do you think about him wanting to lynch Fuzzy?

I’m unsure of the purpose behind this question - it feels as though by asking this question he is distancing himself from a Fuzzy wagon/lynch, but as we saw above he clearly agrees with Pops’ view on Fuzzy.

eyestott told someone, you I think, that they couldn't get a handle on me until they engaged with me, so I was trying to give them a softball question to work with, to open the door.

Aloratom plays very differently as mafia. He likes to buddy people and feels inclined to fabricate reads. Here, he is honest about what's he's thinking and is not presenting and of the aforementioned behaviour. His push on me was in good faith.

Conspire has not posted much, but I really like their style. This might be more of a personality read than an alignment one.

7

You're still doing it. You need to stop both gimmicks. Your self-imposed post cap is just part of a bigger picture.

Sorry, I saw the chance and I had to take it. Why do you think me doing that is scum-indicative? I'm just having some fun.

Giving reads for a player who isn't in the game is not only confusing, it's deceiving those repping in, and it skews how people view your reads as well as their own. If one of us is going on a snipe hunt and insists that others follow them, I can conclude only that they aren't interested in scum hunting but in discouraging others from doing so.

I feel as though Tom is exaggerating the issue here, and is being disingenuous in basing Paragon’s whole play on the gimmick and writing it off as being uninterested in scumhunting, when Paragon has clearly done more scumhunting than most this game.

I think I addressed this. You can call it disingenuous and/or shade on my part, but leading others to believe that there's another player in the game by conversing with that imaginary player is fraud. That cannot be dismissed with a hand wave, "Yeah, but look at the good they're doing over here..."

[nomnomnom]

This next pagetop is mine

[nomnomnom]

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