https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/
His postsIn post 745, Frogsterking wrote:I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.In post 736, Not_Mafia wrote:Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch
It's always possible that someone does something incredibly scummy, or someone posts a new argument that I hadn't thought of, and that that's sufficient to get me to change wagon. It's also possible that we need to scramble to agree on someone as deadline approaches (we only have a few days left!), and it's necessary to be flexible in such situations (often there's a need to compromise). However, I currently have a much stronger scumread on Italiano than on anyone else.In post 732, geraintm wrote:@ call for judgement - this feels like a well meaning post. can you see yourself not voting for Italiano today>
Have you gained any new reads/insight into the shelly/Banana slot since #488? That's quite an old read, so I'm wondering if anything's happened since to confirm your view or to make you re-evaluate (especially as your read on Gamma, in the same post, seems to have evolved somewhat).In post 735, Frogsterking wrote:Also I do think that Nosferatu's recent posts are much more pro town, so at this point while I'm still skeptical of Nosferatu I'm happiest with where my vote is currently at because of my earlier read on Banana.
sarcasticIn post 746, Tayl0r Swift wrote:to be clear nos, my last post was sarcastic. also, is your vote on italiano sarcastic or serious?
Who do you prefer Nos?In post 756, Nosferatu wrote:but tbh i null read italiano so while i would prefer someone else world won't end if this goes thru
What about his posts?In post 750, Not_Mafia wrote:His postsIn post 745, Frogsterking wrote:I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.In post 736, Not_Mafia wrote:Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch
Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.In post 713, callforjudgement wrote:This statement really got me thinking. If you haven't already, I recommend reading Italiano and Walter in double ISO, following how they interact with each other.In post 681, Tayl0r Swift wrote:also worth noting that italiano is taking this opportunity of pressure on him and plausible counterwagon and NOT being opportunistic.
The first wagon on Walter starts at #238 by Nosferatu. Italiano's next post, #266, is denouncing it. (At the time, I assumed that this was Italiano reading the situation the same way I was, and townread Italiano for it. I think I was wrong, though.)
Italiano had previously implied a townread or at least "no reason to think scum" read on Nosferatu (#234).
Walter attacked Nosferatu around the time Nosferatu voted Walter (#249, #257, #278).
Soon after, Italiano was attacking Nosferatu too (#281, vote in #294).
The Nosferatu wagon sits at four votes for a while. Then I derail it, based primarily on a gut read (#367).
Italiano places a (what is to me) surprising scumread on me in #381 and vote in #382. (This is the third vote, after RCEnigma and Nosferatu.)
Walter does not join this wagon (although he does ask lots of questions about it, that's natural when it's the largest wagon).
Eventually Walter calls me "70% certainty" of town (#614); this is technically a mild scumread (assuming a 10:3 setup, a hypothetically town Walter would think a perfectly null read was 75% likely to be town.)
The CFJ wagon sits at four votes for a while.
Then it starts shrinking, as Tayl0r moves to Walter (#634); that wagon's now the same size as mine (N_M voted Walter in #600).
Italiano reacts surprisingly strongly to this (#655), in effect complaining that the wagons should be on me and/or Nosferatu.
Italiano then defends Walter by attacking the wagon (#674, #675).
Walter earlier agreed with me that #655 is scummy (#659), but doesn't vote for Italiano.
As Tayl0r pointed out, there is notable pressure on Italiano but he has no interest at all in the counterwagon on Walter (instead, he's primarily been attacking me).
What I get out of all this is that Italiano is focused quite heavily on defending Walter. Whenever there's a wagon on Walter, Italiano votes the counterwagon (except that with this most recent wagon, the counterwagon to Walter is Italiano himself, and his response is to complain that people aren't on the wagons that previously collapsed!). Basically every time anyone scumreads Walter, Italiano attacks theread(but Italiano has only twice actually called Walter town, placing him top of a townread list in #381, without explanation; and giving a gut townread in #687). The attacks tend to be with weak or no reasoning, too (e.g. #674 attacks a read as "sheeping Not_Mafia", and you can't really sheep someone who never explains).
I think the most plausible explanations for all this are:
a) Italiano and Walter are scum together.
b) Italiano is scum (with Walter town), and wants everyone to think that Walter is scum alongside him, in the hope that we end up voting out Walter and Italiano can end up being vindicated by the townflip.
In either case, though, Italiano ends up as being scum. Unless someone can find meta evidence otherwise, I don't think it makes sense for a hypothetically town Italiano to defend Walterthishard based only on a gut read.
would u say this is the first post from cfg u find to exhibit this qualityIn post 761, Raya36 wrote:Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.
I don't understand what you mean. vig kill italiano?In post 736, Not_Mafia wrote:Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch
I wouldn't say the first but it's the one that shows that quality the strongest to me.In post 763, Nosferatu wrote:would u say this is the first post from cfg u find to exhibit this qualityIn post 761, Raya36 wrote:Actually I don't think this post comes from scum. This shows a true scumhunting mindset that I think would be really hard to replicate as scum, especially in that case knowing that the players in question are town.
How is it not scumhunting? It's a timeline used to introduce and explain a scumreadIn post 767, Nosferatu wrote:it is a totally average NAI post its not even scumhunting its literally a (totally skewed) timeline but yall wanna pretend it totally spews town like uhh what
This post is wrong. For example, in your description of 734 you talk about post 745 and post 760, incorrectly stating that I ask Not Mafia permission to join his wagon, when you can see for yourself in 745 and 753 that I'm asking him to explain his read on Walter, not permission to join his wagon.In post 769, geraintm wrote:thoughts on frogster
had a strong red on nosferatu earyl game, loads of long posts.
then switched and said gamma and banana were...but not the associated long posts with evidence.
back to long log posts on rc enimgma
528 - vague post hinting at scum but not disclosing any actual reads
weird read on CFJ about them being scum, but not wanting to lynch. instead focussing on nosferatu and banana
662 - raya is now scum
734 - wants to look at walter in case they are scum (and later asks permission from not mafia to join that wagon)
overall, they are throwing a lot of scum reads around. sticks with them but quickly moves onto the next shiny thing. not impressed
(tryng to go trough these in order of number of posts)
It looks like you're throwing shade in my direction without reading or understanding my posts.In post 694, geraintm wrote:this feels bollocksIn post 653, shellyc wrote:The unvote didn't alert me. The uptight entrance of "reading" did. The tone to me was almost like reading the thread was a burden to them.In post 652, geraintm wrote:huh?nope, going to call you out too. nothing about looker's post was oddIn post 659, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:Strange entrance by looker but that is one post.
I love reading.
655, is just really weird in that it sorta shows like cfj said a lack of reading/ disengagement.
frog's post 662 - I don't get this. feels a load of hot air, no real substance
Nosferatu - your posts stink.
you tag raya as scummy - twive, and don't go anywhere with that thought.
random vote on the banana slot
random vote on shelly
how bored are you? are you just randomly interacting with this game? I see no content from you at all. be better
at italiano - I don't get why you single out Not mafia as being ok>
has ayone played with call for judgement before? are their very earnest posts typical? do they normally post like this as town/hide when scum?
don't like posts like this. caling out a third of the game and saying there is likely to be a scum in there...well duh. it feels like a post they can circle back later to to say "look, I always thought they were scum"In post 679, Tayl0r Swift wrote: oof yeah i really wanna lynch in cfj, shelly, enigma, or walter. like really really. they cant all be scum but this is some serious opportunism, id be surprised if there arent at least 2 scum in there maybe even all three if walter is scum.
nope you don't get to do this. you don't get to say "we aren't allowed to talk about my very cryptic post". why are so many people in this game being like this??In post 690, Tayl0r Swift wrote:i still feel like cfj will be easy to evaluate after some flips, but is a bit messy today. i am suspicious, but dont want to lynch there today. that said, VOTE: shelly
i dont think its in town's best interest to discuss my vote movement at this time, but im happy to discuss the merits of a vote on shelly or the merits of a vote on walter. im guessing raya will understand what i mean based on past mind-melding at the very least.
This is blatantly a post where you are trying to get someone else to make the case for you to join their wagon. you might not like the way I phrased it "asking for permission" but is the type of post people use where they want to move their vote to another wagon, cant justify it themselves so want to get someone else to write something so they can go "oh yeah, good point, I didn't see it that way, I will join you"In post 745, Frogsterking wrote:I'd be more likely to consider joining your wagon if I understood why you scum read him.In post 736, Not_Mafia wrote:Can flashwagon Walter please, italiano is a vig kill not a lynch
In post 288, Frogsterking wrote:
There was one post from sordoros I thought could be a scum tell because of its potential to be gloating:
In post 471, Frogsterking wrote:Charmander just shot up to FoS #2 for his terrible defense of Nosferatu. Arguably it makes him even scummier than Nosferatu.
In post 488, Frogsterking wrote:It's difficult to imagine, I would start with Banana and Gamma for the strange townreads.In post 482, WaltertheDunce10 wrote:Frog, if nos is town, what are your scumreads?
In post 528, Frogsterking wrote:By the way guys at this point in time I have three serious scum reads and I'll disclose them another time. I also have one other very weak town read I'll ISO now.
In post 619, Frogsterking wrote:I'm down for a Nosferatu or Banana lynch. I also scumread the CFJ slot because of his early interactions
In post 662, Frogsterking wrote:There are three things I wanted to say this afternoon.
#1I realized I have a feeling that Raya is scum
b]#3[/b] In the same spirit of being proactive and risk averse I'll point out a reason why I believe CFJ is scum
^^ to me looks like wants to see Walter as potential scum and shelly is scumIn post 734, Frogsterking wrote:I don't have much new to add except that I'm tempted to do an ISO on the Walter slot because his alignment seems to be a point of contention.
Looker replaced into a slot I had a slight town read on and shelly replaced into a slot I was scum reading and on first glance neither has done anything yet that looks alignment indicative to me.