Death Curse Spectator/Dead PT NOW WITH 100% MORE NERO

[petapan]

noraa absolutely carried her team though

honestly besides day 1 practically stellar scumplay from her

+1

Totally.

3/5ths of her team flaked. that's an incredibly tough hole to dig out of and she made it to the final 3. absolutely amazing effort. it just hurts more when you come agonizingly close to victory than if you get blown out.

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria Cleary hard pushing her perspective was...

??????

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria Cleary hard pushing her perspective was...

??????

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Gloria's conviction, despite it later leading to derails, were /what/ made her valuable for my plays though. Everyone's talking about me being a scumhunting god; I was just feeling the pulse of the town through Gloria, Bell and UNOwen.

Like, everyone has had plays that hurt early on and helped later or vice versa. If I judge anyone on that basis, no player's going to jump past mediocre.

If the play helps significantly more than it hurts -- and I do consider those 3 red hits to have Gloria's stamp on them even despite the friction she put on the wagons! -- I think it's a positive overall.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I'm glad y'all enjoyed it even tho I was just sulking in a corner the whole time.

I think viewing scum games as providing a service to the town members by playing your best game is a good way of looking at it

This is my take, and I hope Noraa considers this more deeply. You're putting on a show, you're the entertainment. It requires a special set of skills, it's exhausting, but encouraging suspension of disbelief and knowing how far you can push your luck are skills that can be honed -- and the /entire/ player list will appreciate the work.

Granted, I have not yet played a scum game ever.

[Cabd]

I'm glad y'all enjoyed it even tho I was just sulking in a corner the whole time.

I think viewing scum games as providing a service to the town members by playing your best game is a good way of looking at it

This is my take, and I hope Noraa considers this more deeply. You're putting on a show, you're the entertainment. It requires a special set of skills, it's exhausting, but encouraging suspension of disbelief and knowing how far you can push your luck are skills that can be honed -- and the /entire/ player list will appreciate the work.

Granted, I have not yet played a scum game ever.

This is my wife's take as well.

You want to win? You fucking well have to fight scum-her for it, then.

[petapan]

my perspective is i want to crush the bastards on the other team

[Cabd]

my perspective is i want to crush the bastards on the other team

I mean that too.

When I draw scum? I want them under my boot, I will burn down the meta, the forest, even my own goddamn legs to pull out a win.

It's only fair, because I expect the others to play to win as well.

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria's conviction, despite it later leading to derails, were /what/ made her valuable for my plays though. Everyone's talking about me being a scumhunting god; I was just feeling the pulse of the town through Gloria, Bell and UNOwen.

Like, everyone has had plays that hurt early on and helped later or vice versa. If I judge anyone on that basis, no player's going to jump past mediocre.

If the play helps significantly more than it hurts -- and I do consider those 3 red hits to have Gloria's stamp on them even despite the friction she put on the wagons! -- I think it's a positive overall.

I <3 you MUSH.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I don't have a competitive mindset in general. But if you twist your brain right, the right kind of cooperation can still give the other side a hell of a run.

No one would play Mafia if the other side always threw the game. The best gift I can give my opposite number is a hard-fought battle, win or lose.

[Cabd]

Sirlin's book "Playing to win" sums up my approach to this sort of thing fairly well.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Gloria's conviction, despite it later leading to derails, were /what/ made her valuable for my plays though. Everyone's talking about me being a scumhunting god; I was just feeling the pulse of the town through Gloria, Bell and UNOwen.

Like, everyone has had plays that hurt early on and helped later or vice versa. If I judge anyone on that basis, no player's going to jump past mediocre.

If the play helps significantly more than it hurts -- and I do consider those 3 red hits to have Gloria's stamp on them even despite the friction she put on the wagons! -- I think it's a positive overall.

Me not reading the whole game has impaired my judgment. I was actually oblivious to Gloria Cleary's influence on the wagons.

[petapan]

my perspective is i want to crush the bastards on the other team

I mean that too.

When I draw scum? I want them under my boot, I will burn down the meta, the forest, even my own goddamn legs to pull out a win.

It's only fair, because I expect the others to play to win as well.

i'm just mean

[Fredrick A Campbell]

But I've hated the alignment since a long time ago. I get a kick out of town wins but I get nothing out of scum games. Perhaps the tiniest bit of happiness. But mostly its just relief that its finally over...

I literally cannot express my hate for this alignment. It's stronger than anything.

You should effort, but keep in mind that you may still lose despite all the effort. As long as you put in the effort though, you have played a good game.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Gloria's conviction, despite it later leading to derails, were /what/ made her valuable for my plays though. Everyone's talking about me being a scumhunting god; I was just feeling the pulse of the town through Gloria, Bell and UNOwen.

Like, everyone has had plays that hurt early on and helped later or vice versa. If I judge anyone on that basis, no player's going to jump past mediocre.

If the play helps significantly more than it hurts -- and I do consider those 3 red hits to have Gloria's stamp on them even despite the friction she put on the wagons! -- I think it's a positive overall.

Me not reading the whole game has impaired my judgment. I was actually oblivious to Gloria Cleary's influence on the wagons.

Honestly, that's less you not reading and more me not showing my hand. I do a lot of manipulation and misdirection in Mafia, and a large part of those wagons was hiding who I was taking cues from to see what people did and run scumreads up off of that.


Gloria's influence was indirect. When she created friction, I took that as a sign that this really needed to be a stronger case, and I calibrated the cases I made off of her reactions. I tested how much I could get away with dismissing difficult slots while wagoning by using her as a baseline (particularly during Shelly). Still, I think I /certainly/ couldn't have wagoned you as hard as I did, Fred, without her help in calibrating the cases to the audience. She was also invaluable in determining who I thought the deepwolves were and piecing together the final townbloc with thoughts to rooting them out in order. (I was wrong, but that doesn't change the intent.)

Bell provided seeds for casebuilding. I knew starting late in Day 1 when Bell started to look town to me that I could look at a scumread of Bell's and build a scumcase on it every time -- part of the way Bell's reads worked meant that there were very few situations with slim cases, his scumreads were overwhelmingly scummy without fail. So if Bell and I matched up on a read, I knew I had found red and I knew I could hit it.

After UNOwen contributed content other than Noraa, I got a strong townread based on the same play coming out of 2028. I remembered UNOwen going down fast there, and not understanding why, which made me feel like he would be incredible to help pinpoint scum that others might doubt. If I wasn't certain how I felt about a scumread of Bell's, I could wait for UNOwen to lay out a scumread and I could usually trust that -- it's what got me certain on DGB, and it contributed heavily to my pre-Fred flip scumread of Shelly.


My razing of the scumteam in the midgame would not have been possible without those 3. By keeping that fact under the radar and making it a Me thing, I let them get way further in the game than I did despite them being the rope holding everything together for me. If UNOwen and Bell had made it to the endgame the way I wanted, I was confident the final deepwolf would go down 100% of the time without too much difficulty. I could have let the town in on the secret before I died, but that would have put them at risk from Titus. If Titus had hit UNOwen or Bell, I think I'd have called it a scum win on the spot.

That said, I still take some credit -- I don't think the average player understands how to piece all that together and build a decision matrix off of a bunch of uninformed townies bumbling around. Particularly when two of the necessary components you don't even have history with, and you do nothing to check their meta.

I play a very unique game of Mafia.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

So, uh, this game is hitting page 400 before Hectic shuts the doors, right?

[petapan]

hectic is in the UK, i believe. he is likely asleep at the present time and will be for several more hours

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Augh, they're going to run out of motivation to shitpost the game to page 400!

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria, ilysm. You made this game really enjoyable. Just ur presence was amazing. The kindness and all. You didn't replace in but u missed out on huge parts of the game and I'll go ahead and just say your reads were influenced bc of precisely that. ~Noraa

<3

I meant what I said, you and Pooky really made the game fun for me. You are probably one of the most fun players ever and I look forward to playing with you in many more games to come.

[Hectic]

Hey, I'm sure we can get it to page 400 during post-game.