Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Glork]

Oh, and my question about nightkills is this: If you think that Casesar's death ending the game is valid due to flavor reasons, then what is the flavor reason behind "Casear is stabbing people at night"? The conspirators stabbed Caesar to death on the senate floor, remember? Why would Caesar be killing people off under the cover of nightfall?

[El Destructo]

I meant what I said: Based on what I knew, I could not find a logical argument that Caesar did not represent the imperial threat to Rome. But something felt off about the balance if that is true, so I thought that might be a gap in my knowledge, and I asked other people for their input. Des' explanation makes sense. It is not some tangential piece of flavour like you seem to be making it out to be, it's

the wording of the town win condition

.

Glork, would you agree that if charter is town, Caesar is in the game? If so, what do you think would happen if we lynched Caesar? Logically, if Charter is town, you're saying lynching Caesar wouldn't end the game -

why is the 'imperial threat' not ended with the death of Caesar? This is the part I don't understand

. I agree that something feels 'off' about the game possibly ending on day 2, but I can't find a logical argument against it.

And what you've quoted is a LONG WAY from trying to convince other people in the manner you've said; you specifically said that I was trying to make people believe it, and then quoted me saying I was unsure about it and asking for input. Hurr?

On nightkills, I have no idea what you're getting at. It's Rome, a dagger is easy to hide, the scum stab people. There's no kind of inconsistancy that I can see. What are you even asking?

Elmo

[Glork]

There is NOTHING in the wording of the win condition to indicate anything one way or another.

The ONLY way I can see you going from "Imperial threat" to "Caeser dying implies a town win" is through a flavor connection.

Furthermore, the part you quoted isn't saying "I don't know one way or another" -- the context implies that you are criticizing me for NOT agreeing with you that Casear's death would mean the end of the game. Look at what you said:

you're saying lynching Caesar wouldn't end the game - why is the 'imperial threat' not ended with the death of Caesar? This is the part I don't understand.

"Glork is saying that the 'imperial threat' does not end with Casear. Why would that not be the case? This I do not understand."

You are completely full of shit, and we both know it.



My question about flavor of nightkills stemmed from this post as well. My point was that if you are arguiing that you can interpret Caesar to be "the imperial threat," then how would you explain Casear killing people if, historically, that was not the case.

[Glork]

Okay, Elmo, if I'm not being articulate enough, let me make my question PERFECTLY clear:

How exactly did you get from the observation of "imperial threat" in the town win condition to "Casear's death means the end of the game"? Does your reasoning draw from flavor or not?

[Glork]

By the way, if I absoltuely have to jump to EA to get a lynch today, I probably will (though truth be told, I wouldn't be adverse to no lynching and getting to an odd number of players), but you can bet your ass I'll be right back on El Des tomorrow. I have almost zero doubt in my mind at this point that El Des is scum.


Also, I currently suspect that El Des' scumbuddy is among {Assmaster, Tuber} mainly because he has avoided interacting with either of them as muchas possible. If it's not one of them, I'd put my money squarely on EA.


And Elmo, you didn't answer my questions about Ass/Tuber, lurkers, and mountainous scum interactions. Des, feel free to answer as well, if you get here before the deadline.

[Tuberkulos]

@ Glork:
I think you missed the part where I said that I think post 13-30 (or whatever it was) are random... I were just trying to see something that

someone

could believe is there. However, those posts doesn't interest me at all.

I'm actually a bit surprised that El Des doesn't mention me, especially since he called out on me before.

Those are kind of the big two on my mind. Tuber and charter both seem to have gone by without a lot of prodding. I think charter is ok so far, but I have a bigger question mark about Tuber. I don't really like what he's been posting, but it's a pretty vague feeling - I'd be curious why Glork said he felt better about him (at some point?). Probably needs a reread.

Obviously you have found something about me that made you change your mind.

No one have really called me scummy or made a serious case (or vote) on me, but finding myself completely absent from your scumlist was unexpected. Since I know my own alignment and since Charter have struck me as quite pro-town I'm glad to be out of that list. But I still which you to explain what exactly made me look pro-town.

[charter]

Where did I say you struck me as pro town? You strike me as a lurker.

[Tuberkulos]

I meant that

I

believe that

you

are pro-town.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch

Erratus Apathos: 3 (Incognito, charter, dahill1)
El Destructo: 1 (Glork)
Incognito: 1 (Erratus Apathos)
dahill1: 1 (Tuberkulos)

Not Voting: 2 (El Destructo, Assmaster)

[Glork]

Mod:

Assmaster hasn't posted since January 28, and was prodded on February 2. Have you begun looking for a replacement for him? Is there any chance whatsoever of you extending the deadline while you look for a replacement?

[OhGodMyLife]

Assmaster requested replacement. The search is ongoing, but the deadline will not change.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: EA

, since I probably won't be able to get online before the deadline tonight.

[Incognito]

So deadline's in about 2 hours. El Destructo, Tuberkulos: Either of you care to hammer?

[Tuberkulos]

vote: EA

[Erratus Apathos]

GG. Incog/Glork/Tuber, I assume?

[Simenon]

you guys are morons

[charter]

How do you guys know the game is over?

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch

Erratus Apathos: 5 (Incognito, charter, dahill1, Glork, Tuberkulos)
Incognito: 1 (Erratus Apathos)

Not Voting: 2 (El Destructo, Assmaster)

As Erratus Apathos is fallen upon by his fellow senators, he cries out in vain at those who strike him down. "Its you, isn't it! And you! And you!" Well, now he'll never know. But what is going on?

Erratus Apathos -

Conspirator

- Lynched Day Three

It is now Night Three. Deadline for night actions is 72 hours.

[OhGodMyLife]

charter takes a step back from the body of Erratus Apathos and sighs, absorbing the implications of another failure. But he doesn't get the chance to do so for long. With a sickening crack, he can see the point of a gladius emerge from from the center of his chest. Turning his head, he can see the emotionless eyes of a soldier on the face of the man who has stricken him with a mortal wound.

Now safe to come out in the open, dahill1 pulls his sword from the broken body of charter and swiftly turns on El Destructo. Tuberkulos and Assmaster try to flee, but the way is blocked by Glork and Incognito. Incognito's face is blank, but Glork can't seem to help but sport a satisfied smile. dahill1, the only armed man in the room, is cool and efficient as he dispatches the remaining senators, barely giving them time to cry out in fear.

charter -

Brutus, Conspiracy Leader

- Killed Night Three

El Destructo -

Conspirator

- Killed in Endgame
Tuberkulos -

Conspirator

- Killed in Endgame
Assmaster -

Conspirator

- Killed in Endgame

charter drags himself away from dahill1 as the latter approaches to finish his work. Incognito puts a hand on dahill1's shoulder to halt him, and approaches charter himself, kneeling before the dying man.
"I.. know your face.." charter chokes out, before his eyes roll back and he expires. dahill1 wipes the blood off of his blade, and Incognito stands and turns to his two compatriates.
"Gentlemen, I welcome you to the Roman Empire."

dahill1 -

Mark Antony, Imperial Mafia

- Survived
Glork -

Gauis Octavius, Imperial Mafia

- Survived
Incognito -

Julius Caesar, Imperial Mafia

- Survived

Imperial Mafia Wins! Congratulations!

[dahill1]

This was one of my worst games so far, I apologize to both groups.
I REALLY, REALLY need to work on my scum game.

[charter]

Good game guys.

[Incognito]

First of all, good game, everyone, and I apologize for all my lies.

This game was scary. And I mean REALLY scary. When I first opened my role PM, I cursed because I'm usually not very fond of scum roles. And with the Ether/Patrick hydra in the game (Ether and Patrick are two players who know my playstyle extremely well), I thought I was doubly screwed. Interestingly, I did find myself enjoying this game and feel like I played OK throughout it, though there were moments where I thought we were completely screwed. The biggest challenge we faced was that our entire scum team was completely dependent on one another. If dahill1 died, we would lose the ability to NK so when he got rung up during Day 1, Glork and I were pretty much forced to try and protect him and deflect attention away from him because he really was unbussable. So yeah, that was that. I felt bad for Xtoxm because I enjoy playing with the guy but it was either him or epic lose and well, it had to be him lol. Sorry, Xtoxm.

Then Glork and I were also dependent on each other because at least one of me and him needed to be alive at endgame in order to win the game. So yeah, again, neither of us could really bus one another except for maybe further along in the game. I enjoyed playing with everyone, I was really happy to have Glork on my scum team since I was familiar with him from Mini 594, Satin Doll - he pretty much called the entire set-up from the get-go in the QT - and I'd love to play with any of you again, except hopefully next time I'll be town. Oh and when El Destructo replaced into the game, I thought "SHIT, that better not be Elmo and destructor" and well, it was haha. destructor knows me better than anyone else on the site and Elmo knows me very well too so yeah, I figured they would know I was scum and yeah, they pretty much did.

Good game, all and thanks for modding, OGML. =)

[OhGodMyLife]

Nonvanilla Role PMs:

charter:

You are

Brutus

, leader of the conspiracy against Julius Caesar. Each night you may investigate one player, and you will be told if that player is Caesar.

You win when the imperial threat to the republic is ended.

Note: Positive investigation on Julius Caesar and Caesar Augustus

Coriolanus:

You are

Cicero

, the great orator. You'll land on your feet no matter what happens, so long as you survive this crisis.

You win if you are alive when another faction fulfills its win condition.

Incognito:

You are

Julius Caesar

, leader of the imperial mafia. Your allies are Gaius Octavius (Glork), your great nephew and heir, and your liutenant Mark Antony (dahill1). The mafia may only kill so long as Mark Antony lives, and the imperial dream would surely crumble if both Caesar and Octavius were to fall.

You win when the mafia equals or outnumbers the remainder of the town and at least one of Julius Caesar and Gaius Octavius is still alive.

dahill1:

You are

Mark Antony

, lieutenant of Caesar and a member of the imperial mafia. Your allies are your commander Julius Caesar (Incognito) and his great nephew and heir Gaius Octavius (Glork). You are the only member of the mafia who may make a night kill, and the imperial dream would surely crumble if both Caesar and Octavius were to fall.

You win when the mafia equals or outnumbers the remainder of the town and at least one of Julius Caesar and Gaius Octavius is still alive.

Glork:

You are

Gaius Octavius

, great nephew and heir of Caesar and a member of the imperial mafia. Your allies are your great uncle, Julius Caesar (Incognito) and his lieutenant Mark Antony (dahill1). The mafia may only kill so long as Mark Antony lives, and the imperial dream would surely crumble if both Caesar and Octavius were to fall.

You win when the mafia equals or outnumbers the remainder of the town and at least one of Julius Caesar and Gaius Octavius is still alive.

If Caesar had died while Octavius still lived, he would have recieved the following:

In order to honor your fallen uncle you have taken the name

Caesar Augustus

.

[Glork]

I was so sloppy on days one and two, it wasn't even funny.

But honestly, the town has nobody to blame but themselves. Xtoxm imploded Day One, and Yos led the charge against him, for the most part. Then Yos imploded on Day Two. And that made Day Three mostly elementary.


The one thing about my playstyle -- namely my defense of Dahill. I

hate, hate, hate, HATE

going out of my way to defend scumbuddies. I've never even come CLOSE to defending one as hard as I defended Dahill, but the fact that he was our only source of nightkills made it imperative that he stayed alive. My hope was that somebody would run me up at some point, then any of the half dozen players who know me would go "if Glork is going to go balls to the walls defending someone, that someone would almost certainly be protown."

I made some assumptions about the game setup before we even got started. I had initially projected that the town was either entirely vanilla, or that there were a couple of weak (I suggested one-shot) roles. We figured that there wasn't a regular Cop, Vig, or Roleblocker, which left very little as far as standard roles went. During Night Two, we decided to gamble on it being a vanilla town, and we took out Corio. Once he flipped Survivor, and Charter said that he wanted to claim last, I nearly crapped my pants, because I thought my assumptions were hideously wrong... but things worked out about as well as we could have hoped. We figured that the town would assume two scums (and thus not LyLo) and were just trying to see where we could find two (or more) townies with the same suspect.

[Simenon]

you guys are morons

Seriously, town was really bad this game. I would have won, too, if the bastards didn't dick me over: either I would have helped push a dahill lynch, which would have given the town a great chance, or I would have won with the scum.

Also, Incog was *incredible*. Best performance by a scum in a while.