Mini 742 Monopoly Mafia - Game Over!

[ac1983fan]

I'm pointing out this post of Jebus again, because there is no earthly way he investigated Alabaska J on N2.

Jebus played irrationally for a cop. Nevertheless, I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the mafia has a framer or there was bussing involved. If the mafia switched Alabaska for one of their own, the investigation would show guilty as the target switches to the mafia, and the cop would VERY likely not be informed of this.

But then, one would assume that the "tracker" would track them to the person who was actually targetted after the busdrive. That is what I would think. I've never played an mscum game with a driver, and the place I have, it works very much differently.

[The Fonz]

Jebus played irrationally for a cop. Nevertheless, I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the mafia has a framer or there was bussing involved.

If the mafia switched Alabaska for one of their own, the investigation would show guilty as the target switches to the mafia, and the cop would VERY likely not be informed of this.

No. If a player is busdriven, causing a cop to investigate someone who wasn't his original target, he is given the name of the player he actually has a result on. To do otherwise is major modding malpractice.

IE

Cop: I'll investigate Clean Dean please

(Mafia busdriver switches Clean Dean and Dirty Denzil)

Mod to cop: You find Dirty Denzil guilty.

[Nightfall]

No. If a player is busdriven, causing a cop to investigate someone who wasn't his original target, he is given the name of the player he actually has a result on. To do otherwise is major modding malpractice.

IE

Cop: I'll investigate Clean Dean please

(Mafia busdriver switches Clean Dean and Dirty Denzil)

Mod to cop: You find Dirty Denzil guilty.

I don't think that that is true at all (as I have said before)

I think it would be more like this:

Cop: I'll investigate Clean Dean please

(Mafia busdriver switches Clean Dean and Dirty Denzil)

Mod to cop: You get a guilty result

I've been a cop in quite a few games before and I think it depends on the mod how the cop is told the results. i.e. "clean don is innocent" or "you receive an innocent result".

I would believe that normally one wouldn't be told about a change in their target as that would give away the fact that a busdriver or some other switching role was/is in the game.

[The Fonz]

But to not do so compromises their results.

I'll try to dig up the MD threads, but suffice to say, I don't think a mod should ever allow an investigator to be switched without telling him.

[Zilla]

I agree with Nightfall. Other roles are not informed that their target was led astray, cops shouldn't be any different.

[Zilla]

I'm more apt to believe the tracking would lead to who was actually investigated, though that isn't necessarily true either. If the cop "visits" Alabaska but he had been switched with scumperson, the cop still went to Alabaska's "house."

[Zilla]

Lastly, I find this all irrelevant.

[The Fonz]

I agree with Nightfall. Other roles are not informed that their target was led astray, cops shouldn't be any different.

But other roles ARE. Well, other investigative roles. The usual tracker result is:

'You saw Fonz target DGB' or 'Fonz performed no night action.' Therefore, if the person you are targeting is switched, you'd get it switched to 'You saw Zilla perform no night action.'

Not telling them leads to innocent players, and then cops, getting lynched for no fault of their own, and that ruins games.

[ac1983fan]

I think it is kinda bastardy to have a bus driver effect someone the way nightfall thinks it would; the whole point of a bus driver is not to mess up night results, it is to allow the scum a way to kill a power role, which I think is odd in a game with only a one-shot doc...

[The Fonz]

And to stop themselves getting vigged.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'll try to dig up the MD threads, but suffice to say, I don't think a mod should ever allow an investigator to be switched without telling him.

I believe you are completely wrong here.

[The Fonz]

Why?

Imagine for a second you're a tracker.

If you targeted X, and he was switched with Y, saying 'you saw X target Z' is directly lying to the player. Saying 'you saw Y target the player' is true, because it tells you precisely what was intended- your tracking, with the caveat that it wasn't on the person it was targeted to.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why?

Imagine for a second you're a tracker.

If you targeted X, and he was switched with Y, saying 'you saw X target Z' is directly lying to the player. Saying 'you saw Y target the player' is true, because it tells you precisely what was intended- your tracking, with the caveat that it wasn't on the person it was targeted to.

No, you get "guilty" or "innocent." Period.

[ac1983fan]

Why?

Imagine for a second you're a tracker.

If you targeted X, and he was switched with Y, saying 'you saw X target Z' is directly lying to the player. Saying 'you saw Y target the player' is true, because it tells you precisely what was intended- your tracking, with the caveat that it wasn't on the person it was targeted to.

No, you get "guilty" or "innocent." Period.

A tracker doesn't get "guilty" or "innocent"...

[Zilla]

I hadn't heard of the mod confirming your selection in your result post, just the information. i.e. the result would be "They visited <player>." And this:

the whole point of a bus driver is not to mess up night results, it is to allow the scum a way to kill a power role, which I think is odd in a game with only a one-shot doc...

I think is wrong; the whole point of a bus driver IS to mess up night results. I have no idea how a bus driver "allows the scum a way to kill a power role" any more than their actual NIGHTKILL ability.

Again, why is any of this all that relevant? Firstly, I believe the bus driver can lead to a guilty result on an innocent person, so I believe if Jebus targetted Alabaska and the bus driver targetted Alabaska for substitution, he would get a guilty result and DGB would see Jebus targetting Alabaska. If I were modding, that's how I'd resolve it. The driver's supposed to be a stealth role that messes up night roles, they always add confusion. Even if I believe that, I find a scum tracker more likely, and I find DGB scummy for completely separate reasons than her roleclaim.

[ac1983fan]

I hadn't heard of the mod confirming your selection in your result post, just the information. i.e. the result would be "They visited <player>." And this:

the whole point of a bus driver is not to mess up night results, it is to allow the scum a way to kill a power role, which I think is odd in a game with only a one-shot doc...

I think is wrong; the whole point of a bus driver IS to mess up night results. I have no idea how a bus driver "allows the scum a way to kill a power role" any more than their actual NIGHTKILL ability.

Example: The game has a claimed cop, an unclaimed doc, several townies, and two maf, one of whom is a bus driver.Normally, the cop would be protected by the doc. In this case, however, the maf drive the cop with someone else, and kill the other person who they drove. Now, the doc's protection will be driven to the other party, and the maf's kill will be driven to a cop, resulting in a dead cop despite a living doc.

[DrippingGoofball]

A tracker doesn't get "guilty" or "innocent"...

"home" or "not home" or some such equivalent then.

[Zilla]

I've never seen bus driving used like that.

Regardless, I want to know why we're even talking about it. It's only remotely related to the actual case here, and either way it goes, it doesn't establish guilt either way on DGB. All it does is potentially make her claim more or less believable.

[CrashTextDummie]

Am I the only one to notice that DGB hasn't reacted to being at L-1 in the slightest? Some kind of defense would be apropriate. Or a hammer, actually.

[The Fonz]

I hadn't heard of the mod confirming your selection in your result post, just the information. i.e. the result would be "They visited <player>."

The first occasion that springs to mind for me is when I, as tracker, busted DGB's alt in a fakeclaim: the message, to the very word, was:

Toaster Strudel performed no night action.

I've included trackers in a number of my games, and been trackers in others, and I've never seen a message without the name of the target in it.

[The Fonz]

Am I the only one to notice that DGB hasn't reacted to being at L-1 in the slightest? Some kind of defense would be apropriate. Or a hammer, actually.

Well, since it's LyLo, we're at DGB-is-scum or both scum are on the wagon. Will take a look to see if the latter is plausible before hammering.

[Nightfall]

It's only remotely related to the actual case here, and either way it goes, it doesn't establish guilt either way on DGB. All it does is potentially make her claim more or less believable.

Potentially more believable could be a difference maker here though. That's why I wanted to examine it. It seems like people are pretty split on just how possible it is though.

DGB? Anything else that you can think of to say to defend yourself?

[The Fonz]

Well, Nightfall isn't scum with anyone but DGB.

The other three I've already said- I don't see more'n one scum in that group.

[The Fonz]

Nightfall, before a hammer falls, should I declare a roleblock target?

My thinking is this:

1) If that person is scum, they can't kill
2) If that person is town, scum can't kill anyone else without confirming them
3) If scum kill them,

I[/i] survive.

Worst case scenario, 4-1 with a basically confirmed town player. Any other scenario buys us an extra lynch.

[The Fonz]

A tracker doesn't get "guilty" or "innocent"...

"home" or "not home" or some such equivalent then.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaang on... wait a second, you're supposed to BE a tracker in this game. Surely you know what format results are in?

Vote: DGB

Hammah Time!

I will be RBing CTD.