Monk wrote:VOTE: DarthYoshi Dinosaur sith are not a thing
This is a good-hearted, honest-natured, RVS-vote. There's no bad tone in it. It has that town tone, the tone of having fun as town.
In more traditional terms, there's also his having missed that the RVotes wouldn't count--his lack of careful reading is a towntell, since I've found that--traditionally--scum tend to scrutinize the ruleset, whereas town just essentially assume everything's pretty much the standard ruleset.
(It might not be to you the strongest town-tell, but it's still a town-tell.)
(Also, to make sure it's clear--I don't consider the inverse to be a scumtell. Just for the record.)
Monk wrote:we're not in pregame jily, let's hear what you've got
This, combined with Monk's earlier statement that they WERE, is reason to believe that Monk is town who is legitimately inquiring into things.
just saying but Ironhead is right on his "RVS doesn't really create pressure" I have never felt pressure in any of my games so far from RVS. but then I haven't felt any pressure from rqs. Jily's playing more or less the same game she has been playing in all her games, I get a null read, nothing particularly out of the ordinary with her posts
This looked like an honest attempt to scumhunt. It admittedly was not a very good attempt, but it had the tone of a newb-town player.
Jily wrote:4) Well, I'm assuming RQS is Random Question Stage. I prefer RQS, because I can get more information. I dislike RVS, because it's too easy to kill a person too early. Oh, and I've only played with RVS, but I dislike it.
This is the kind of assumption I'd only see with a town train of thought. Dislikes what she's seen in the past, and so assumes that the alternative (RQS) is better. I don't think Jily as scum would think like that.
/confirm
Sorry, meant to confirm on my first post.
This is another bit of a town-tell, the fact that she was so intent on playing the game that she forgot to confirm.
"Why's that a towntell rather than a null-tell?"
Because she was specifically looking forward to scumhunting. It's in her tone. If she was scum, she wouldn't go, "oh, goody, I'm so excited I get to deceive the town! This will be so much fun!" and forget. It just doesn't work that way.
Jily wrote:I was just going to post a whole thing about ironhead and some other stuff, and then I realized we're still pregame. I bet this game's gonna turn out well. Especially with all this activity.
The fact that she put the effort into this should tell you she was town. The fact that she was anticipating the game should tell you she is town. The fact that she scrapped it all thinking it wasn't needed should make you realize she was town who simply saw no need to post it.
Jily wrote:Well, I don't feel like typing it up again, so in a nutshell, I pretty much wrote the following:
I don't like RVS either (meaing that although I like spectating, I don't like participating.) And that not liking RVS isn't necesarilly a scum tell.
This furthers the feeling.
Please explain this part of your post, it was basically useless. (I'm sorry if I missed something, I probably did, but can someone explain the point of it anyways?)
Reads as a town tone, this not understanding.
TWIE wrote:RVS. Votes are info.
I can't pin it down. (So call it Gut if you MUST, though this doesn't feel like gut.) But something in here makes this feel town, rather than null. Something about the Tone just seems to be in the mind-set of a pro-town player.
What information related to the game have we gained from knowing timezones, games completed, and projected activity level?
This makes it a little more explicit. It doesn't have the slight condescending/scolding tone I'd expect from scum. It has the curious, puppy-like feeling of a pro-town player legitimately asking, wanting to get a real answer rather than a rhetorical one.
Alright... then based on our responses to those questions who looks the most like scum?
Again, this appears to be legitimately trying to get an answer, to get real info from Jily. Rather than a rhetorical (slightly condescending) question. Tone is everything.
/late to the RVS party
Vote Jily
You couldn't be bothered to rewrite 5 sentences?
Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT a scum way of thinking. Quite the opposite, I've never, EVER seen scum think this way. It's always town. Especially the bolded.
Iron wrote:4. I prefer RQS. It is too easy for scum to fly under the radar in RVS, because of course their votes are not random.
This methodical approach to the game seems like a town take on things. Iron was essentially advocating equal pressure on all players, which RQS generates. Equal pressure-->equal attention on all players-->scum can't slip under the radar. In other words, Iron was quite logically deducing that the best strategy for the town was the RQS.
Why must RVS result in bandwagons? Couldn't it proceed with an approximately equal distribution of votes among several candidates?
This furthers the above, in that Iron wanted equal distribution, equal pressure applied, rather than focusing on a single player via bandwagoning.
By the way, I hate unjustified bandwagons -- another way for scum to fly under the radar.
To Iron, everything must have a reason behind it. And if the reason is invisible, Iron can't analyze it. And therefore, to Iron, it looks bad. This shows a town thought process, in that he's trying to make sense of the game.
Also, since this is not the first time I've worked on an Ironhead is Town case, my notes from last time:
(Abandoned due to Scumhunter Rendering it pretty unnecessary, but still...)
Mastin wrote:Equal distribution. I don't know about you, but to me, this sounds like a logical approach to the game: balance things out equally, rather than tip the scales towards one person. (A bandwagon.)
Iron wrote:I thought I made the connection pretty solid between what wierdalex said and what the implication is. Are you indicting the connection? If so, where exactly did I fail to connect the argument to the conclusion?
Key word usage here. "Connect". Multiple times. In this context, it's very strong.
I think RQS generates more useful discussion than RVS -- besides, not everyone gets pressured during RVS.
This makes logical sense, since Random Votes for Random Reasons are difficult (some say impossible, though I disagree) to decipher, whereas Random Questions and Answers are comparatively easier to figure out. It also creates a valid point about pressure, again bringing up the logical, "balanced" view from Ironhead.
I have asked you to explain your failure to follow my logic (please review post #68) and you have not only ignored it, but you continue to obfuscate. You are not acting in the best interests of the town. If you wish to exercise the town's power to lynch, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate a strong reason. Saying "I personally want to see Iron go first" is not a compelling reason.
I am a stickler for unimpeachable logic (as splitfarvle can attest, as we just finished a game together). If you are going to sling faulty logic through this game, I will identify it as garbage for you. Poor logic in itself is not a definitive scum-tell, but it is not pro-town.
This quote shows both his firm devotion to putting logic back into scumhunting, along with prodding WormyKrew somewhat, testing them, to get a feel for whether they're just anti-town playstyle, or anti-town role. (In other words, scumhunting.)
The point is, the uninformed town can be manipulated by the scum without even knowing they are being manipulated
[*snip*]
and no one can avoid having to take an early stand on some semi-relevant question.
When this is combined, you end up getting a solid town-read from Iron. It's hard to explain. Like it only comes from a town perspective. I'm trying to figure out an explanation for it. It's just a thought process, a thought pattern, a kind of Motivation (I suppose) that only comes from town.
Alex wrote:Was that a serious [pregame] vote (I mean, it won't count, but is it with the intent of voting me when the game starts)? Because I don't see what we would really get out of just voting everybody randomly.
This is one of the possible hints that Alex is town. His curious attitude doesn't read in this post to me as being scum. (In other words, it doesn't seem like "Why Me = Fry Me"*.
)
*
(For the record, that saying was not around when I was a regular at EpicMafia and I don't endorse its usage.)
Alex wrote:Well then, I guess I should come out right now and say that I am considered an active lurker. I don't try to, but everyone says I do. I dunno. And people keep telling me I'm obnoxious. I don't try to.
*link to one of his games*
This seemed good-natured. Like he was being upfront and town, truthfully telling us about himself, being open and allowing us to read into him. Giving off that town Tone, a tone hard to fake.
All I've been is Vanilla Townie, so I have no clue.
This is Alex's town-slip. There's no Weasel Wording. No, "so far" after "been". Nothing to suggest that it's changed in this game. If it had changed, I'd expect something like "Up to this point, all I've been", or "All I've been so far is", "all I've been previously is", "All I have been is", "All I have been in the past", etc. Something like that, if it weren't the case right now.
I didn't see that. I saw someone accidentally soft-claiming VT, without realizing they town-slipped.
@Ironhead: What's so bad about it? You get a few good reads, and it generates enough discussion to get the game going.
This innocence looks legitimate, like it was said with the town intonation.
Agreed. I want to hear what Jily has to say about it.
I have a hard time believing Alex would blatantly sheep a scumbuddy, so Alex is not scum with WormyKrew. Since WormyKrew is my main suspect...
Secret wrote:I find it odd you'd call this "personal benefit".
This is a question which can only come from town.
That said, I've only READ RQS and never been a part of it.
For the same reason this is a town-tell for Jily, it is a town-tell for Secret as well.
Ironhead's post puts way more than weirdalex actually said into his mouth. Trying to paint something as scummy that's totally null.
Immediately comes to scumhunting the moment he can. It gives off that town impression.
Notice how his language changes in between his 2nd and 3rd post. It's an interesting defense, I've never seen it done, but he enhances his language after me and worm got on him, as if that makes him look more town.
I have a hard time believing scum would pick up in a change of tone in posts. It's something a pro-town player would think of, though. It also gives off the town tunnel vibe, rather than the scum tunnel vibe.
Elsa wrote:Town, easily. There's SO much less pressure on me, and therefore much less lurking (such is usually my awful scum playstyle). In all, it makes for a more active/fun game for me.
This gives me reason to believe Elsa's town, since if she wasn't, she'd be more obligated to replace out. Why? She's V/LA and would have more pressure. She's V/LA and would know that'd mean she'd appear to be lurking.
She's V/LA and doesn't want to get out, so she must be having fun.
See where this is going?
Elsa wrote:Hah, I had no idea that votes were not counting yet. I think I saw someone else vote and did so myself, thinking the RVS was upon us.
For the same reason Monk is town, so too is Elsa.
Gerhard is town. The way he handled the RV out of the RVS was done well.
Gerhard wrote:This was a very safe thing to say. You established yourself firmly on the fence without stepping on anyone's toes. I'd expect newbie town to do this, but not someone in a mini normal.
This legitimate scumhunting also solidifies that. His vote was well-placed and his stance was justified.