Experimental Role Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[MagnaofIllusion]

I mentionned it in my last post before that one. Now if you can stop being a pretentious asswipe I'm sure everyone would love it.

Well that's one right back at you fucking scumbag because my reasons for Tierce being scum have been all over the fucking thread.

You just going to drop in to make stupid, active-lurking posts like this all game?

You so need bullets!

[pidgey]

FakeGod (9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1, DeathNote, bunnylover, Dramonic, PeregrineV, shadowmeh

Tierce (8) hiplop, Vi, Amrun, MagnaOfIllusion, havingfitz, chesskid3, I Am Innocent, Aurora Vox

This is the current situation of the wagons.
The way I see it, i'd prefer to lynch FakeGod over Tierce. But a factor I have is that mane of the people i dont like or have a null read on is in the fakegod wagon.
At this point, im leaning towards Tierce for my vote. Both wagons still are not the best we could have come up with, still.

I'll just reread a thing or two and cast a vote in a bit.

[pidgey]

All this people were on the fakegod wagon at a certain point:

Amrun, FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1, DeathNote, I Am Innocent, MagnaOfIllusion, havingfitz, bunnylover, Dramonic, PeregrineV, shadowmeh

That's... 13 people who have voted him. Some have changed to the Tierce wagon.

[pidgey]

I can actually see the possibility somewhere that MAYBE fakegod is scum and his lynch might be salvaged for a day from the amount of people that have joined the wagon and went out. I doubt he might be scum from his play though. But I doubt it more with Tierce, honestly.

[FakeGod]

There are significant number of people saying leading wagons are not scum who are on the wagons.

Mod clarified that town doesn't need a majority to lynch.

...

...

Let me tell you guys something crazy.

Scum coasting comfortably on the wagons will stay coasting.

[pidgey]

We probably dont have time since day ends in less than 20 hours.

[FakeGod]

im leaning towards Tierce for my vote.

i'd prefer to lynch FakeGod over Tierce.

Am I reading this right?

Are you going to explain or are you going to afk for 20 hours?

[pidgey]

I think you are more scummy than Tierce but I dont like the people on your wagon. It's explained there.

STFU about AFK for 20 hours.

I just think you both are town and this lynch isnt really worth it one way or another. But i still think you have a slightly better chance to flip scum maybe.

[pidgey]

Hey deathnote i see you online. Thoughts?

[pidgey]

Bleh.

I think that maybe Fakegod has a better chance to flip scum due to the amount of people that has voted him.

Fakegod i'll vote for you, so you should claim.

[DeathNote]

Hey deathnote i see you online. Thoughts?

Thoughts on what?

And I just got online after being mostly absent all day.

Been working alot the past two days guys, sorry....

Will catch up as best I can

[pidgey]

17 hours til deadline, ill be back in like 8 hours to see if fakegod has claimed or whatever.

[Shadoweh]

@Shadoweh:
Why are you so headstrong about Tierce been town?
Half your ISO, I think, is claiming what Tierce was doing. Why do you feel you need to clarify what Tierce was doing?
How much meta, I believe you said you played with Tierce before, do you have with Tierce?

Because she is. I feel the need to clarify it because you don't let strong town get lynched. If people weren't trying to lynch her I would not be talking about her.
Uhm, I dunno, a few games we've played together, a few she's played and I've watched, the cameras in.. nevermind!

Why do you care? What is the conclusion to your questions after receiving the answers for them?

I just think you both are town and this lynch isnt really worth it one way or another. But i still think you have a slightly better chance to flip scum maybe.

Pidgey, you are speaking my language. Who do you supose the actual scum are keeping us on the river to the danger zone?

Vi:

[Vi]

Vi- Especifically "Without that assumption, I would rather vote Pine, and unless Pine's flip is single-scumgroup go right back to Tierce D2."
Its like you are saying, we should lynch Pine, but hey if he flips town or "other scum group" (how would you know from a single flip if there are 2 scum groups anyway), then hey lets lynch tierce tomorrow. And since i dont really have a scum read on tierce, it felt weird.

Most of the time mods make it somewhat obvious, whether they want to or not.

I think that maybe Fakegod has a better chance to flip scum due to the amount of people that has voted him.

chenwhat.jpg
I'd love to hear the rational explanation behind this one.

I'm tempted to say something like "wrong finger" right now but I don't feel like it.

[FaerieLord]

@Pidg: For what it's worth, I'd join the Briz wagon with you, but I don't want to risk a no-lynch / Tierce dying. While I still think it very likely that Fakegod is scum, Briz is still worse. But again, I just don't want Tierce to die yet. I just can't see her being scum.

[Vi]

But again, I just don't want Tierce to die yet. I just can't see her being scum.

I'm pretty sure you're misguided at best.

I feel the need to clarify it because you don't let strong town

[Tierce]

get lynched.

Shadoweh on the other hand is just delusional, since he made me type "strong town" and "Tierce" juxtaposed with each other.

[Tierce]

Why would I consider multiball before different scum flips/setup indications that we are in multiball? That's backwards. I overthink things enough by myself, I don't need to add to my own confusion. Why do you think I should consider multiball at this stage?

No the point is you are making reads as if it is a Single scum game (re Vi and assessing Vi’s alignment based on whether there is ‘honest’ scum-hunting there) when you, as Town, should have no reason to have any clue to know which we are under.

If Vi was a scum suspect you should be considering her a scum-suspect (as what you saw of Vi’s play that said “scum” isn’t invalidated by ‘honest’ scum hunting) until that time as you have significant evidence to consider it Single or Multi-ball.

WTF? No. I assume single-ball by default and I have no reason to think this is multiball, so I won't unless there is evidence of such. Your reasoning is clumsy at best and scummy at worst, MoI--there is no reason for me not to create reads with singleball in mind. If we get multiball evidence, I'll restructure my reads accordingly, but until then, what's the point in blind speculation with no ground for it?

What was it again that made Vi a suspect originally. Don't think I've seen that yet from you.

Vi-town doesn't usually keep up the cryptic act for long because she wants to explain things and push her scumreads. The mostly mute behavior was bugging me.

I was not asking the people in the smaller wagons to vote for the larger wagons, if that's the impression you got. I did not like the larger wagons, so I wouldn't want people to vote them. There's no need to nudge them for wagons I don't want people to join, but there's need for everyone to pull their act together.

See this also makes me want to RAGE! Here is what you said at Post 506 –

Should put their votes to good use: sowrd_of_omens, Dram, malthusis-slot, hiplop, PeregrineV... heck, the list continues. This is ridiculous.

You singled out players voting you, Sword, Deathnote, pidgey, Malthusis as not “putting their vote to good use”. All of those directly mentioned were singleton or doubleton votes. What was the point of saying this if you were not pushing them to consolidate? They aren’t voting the same wagons on Fake and Briz that you were calling bad. Were you saying that all those people (FakeGod / Briz / Sword / Deathnote / Pidgey / Malthusis / yourself were all Town?

I called for consolidation. And I pushed an alternative wagon. Why do you assume that my call for consolidation was on the then-leading wagons? I wanted people to push

their

cases instead of lumping together on FakeGod or malthusis, to convince others to join alternative wagons with a higher chance of hitting scum.

Otherwise all you are saying is “Vote who I say you should vote” which is pointless and you shouldn’t have made that statement in the first place unless you are Scum looking to grab ‘Town Cred’.

Sheeping me is fine and more people should do it, but etc.

Not valid reasoning here. I am not using the Ellitell to call him scum as a major reason (neither is Vi w/r/t me). You are saying I'm doing so--when that is not the case. I'm using it to complement a case I have on Pine; it's a good tell, but as with everything, it's not enough for me to say "yep, he's scum". It's the grouping of factors that leads me to the conclusion that Pine is scum.

Yet the only thing you are doing regarding pushing Pine is hammering the ‘Ellitell’ over and over. Somehow I think your explanation here is lacking.

Pine has been ignoring me. The only thing he mentioned was his own activity. He refused to address the rest of my case. I'm not hammering the tell over and over, but if he doesn't post and ignores me, I

am

going to remark on that.

Your case (as shown at Post 635) seems to boil down to the following outside the Elli-tell IMO -

He’s calling FakeGod scum.
Weak FL vote (disagree with this completely, for page 2 it as a very solid early game vote)
He’s coasting and commenting on ‘non-alignment’ things.

If that is your strong case on Pine I don’t see it given that your reasoning could be applied to at least half the game as far as the last point is concerned and calling out FakeGod isn’t a scum-tell AFAIC.

My case on Pine is that he is outlining behavior as scummy without looking at the motivations for this behavior. This is typical of scum wanting to win arguments, not wanting to figure out alignments. In addition, some of the behavior he called scummy isn't even scummy anyway, it's null, so he is making up stuff to sell the town on a fake scumread.

I, like Fitz, have a group of people that feel scummy that I wouldn't mind offing. And that includes the 2 largest wagons currently, so I am in a good place.

This is my problem, I can't see how you are in favor of both wagons. Do you think we're both scum? Do you have any conclusions lined up regarding my alignments or FakeGod's when the other flips?

I'll take my chances that if we mislynch today, that mislynch will give us more answers down the road to catching even more scum. Remember the game is not won until the last mafia is lynched, not the first.

Yeah the thing is that I don't really see you expressing any thinking about this. What actual opinions do you

currently

have about the wagons, the wagonnees, the timing, other than you being 'a good place' with the two main wagons?

Q. "This and later you jumped between FakeGod and me? Do you really think both wagons are on scum?"

A. I thought I caught Vi in a contradication, I was apparently wrong. As for your second question, it is possible. You both currently are voting other players than each other.

In case it hasn't been made abudantly clear, I'm not voting for FakeGod because I don't think he's scum.

So when I said I hope there are claims before there's a day left, I was hoping whoever was in the lead would actually claim before there was a day left. There is a day left. Both the leading wagons should spill since it looks like this is going to deadline. Stop fucking around and claim you pansies before there's a magical 'omg it's the cop' rush at the last second.

If I had anything to claim I would have done so already. VT.

One of FakeGod/Tierce is almost certainly scum, probably FakeGod.

Bleah.
Why? Because of the wagon size and the fact that there are two competing wagons? It's D1 and none of the wagons is being pushed over the other--scum are comfortable to let this go to deadline, they have no need to save a scumbuddy from an impending lynch because neither of us are scum.


pidgey's reads mostly boil down to nulls, but I can see the reasoning behind them--he's thinking dynamically about the game and trying to reach a workable decision at this stage. Still town.

---

Town:
FakeGod
hiplop
malthusis-Shadoweh
PeregrineV
pidgey

Probtown:
AurorusVox
brizingre1
Bunnylover
FaerieLord

Probscum:
havingfitz
Hiraki

Scum:
I Am Innocent
Pine-slot

[TWIN SWORDS OF DESTINY]

Votecount 1.21

MagnaofIllusion (0)
Pine (3) Tierce, Hiraki, FakeGod
Brizingre1 (1) Pidgey
Pidgey (0)
DeathNote (0)
havingfitz (0)
Majiffy (0)
hiplop (0)
PeregrineV (0)
Parama (0)
Dramonic (0)
chesskid3 (0)
I Am Innocent (0)
Vi (0)
Hiraki (0)
FakeGod (9) FaerieLord, pappums rat, Pine, Brizingre1, DeathNote, bunnylover, Dramonic, PeregrineV, Shadoweh
FaerieLord (0)
Amrun (0)
AurorusVox (0)
Tierce (8) hiplop, Vi, Amrun, MagnaOfIllusion, havingfitz, chesskid3, I Am Innocent, AurorusVox
pappums rat (0)
bunnylover (0)
Shadoweh (1) Parama

Not Voting (1) - Majiffy

Deadline is (expired on 2012-05-09 17:00:00)

With

23

alive, it takes

12

to lynch.

Searching for a replacement for Pine.

Prodding Parama.

[Parama]

unvote, vote: FakeGod

A Shadoweh wagon isn't out of the question yet but ehh

[Majiffy]

Oy 8 hours till deadline. I suppose I'll be catching up on the thread during the night phase then.

During a chaotic section of a game, mafia won't stick their head out, being rational and trying to calm the game down. They thrive on town chaos, and let it continue as long as possible.

Wow, how many games have you played? Have they been here? This is just not at all true.

Link in my sig.

[havingfitz]

Bit of a catchup.

In post 506 Tierce provides a lot of town tells but no suspicions that I can see. States who she will not vote today...fine....but also urges several people to put their votes to good use and then proceeds to name off several people who are on the smaller wagons. Unsure if it is because she disagrees with their vote's target or based on the perceived odds those wagons will not result in a lynch. Votes Parama for no stated reason.

In post 508 Tierce unvotes Parama and votes hipop. States willingness to support Vi, chesskid, and Bunnylover wagons as well.

In post 536 Tierce explains to MOI that she initially placed her vote on Parama because he had other votes already (??) and that she

"wanted a wagon with a possibility of engaging and flipping before the deadline."

Note to MOI....this was a response directed at you!

As I point out later...her next two votes following her Parama vote were on wagons that had no support (hiplop. IAI) and never did achieve any traction. And her next vote was the first on an only slightly more supported wagon (Pine). So I still have issue with her voting rationale.

MOI's next post responds to Tierce's post 536 but makes no mention of her

"possibility of engaging and flipping before the deadline."

comment. despite including it in one of his quotes of her.

In post 584...despite listing Bunnylover as a wagon she would support, Tierce appears to give Bunylover some nice coaching.

In post 635...Tierce moves her vote to a third new wagon (Pine) in a row despite only two Tierce posts earlier she claims Pine's

"ISO is on the townier side of things."

WTF?

In post 703 MOI calls me out to explain my

"wanted a wagon with a possibility of engaging and flipping before the deadline."

response to Hiraki. This after I had called out Tierce for the exact same thing in a response she had made to MOI? (see above) I then proceed to mention the

"engaging and flipping"

comment again in posts 618 and 650. Then I get this:

@MOI...I didn't see your question. Your quote from me is a word for word comment from Tierce who has ignored my comments towards her. It was sarcasm. I do think she is scummy and that's why I'm voting her...and iirc I've given my thoughts on her. Don't feel like looking at this time as I'm on my phone.

Then either use explicit sarcasm tags or stop being cheeky. Because what I saw in Post 650 was you specifically stating you were supporting a wagon irrelevant of scumminess.

How about you read closer. I gave reasons for suspecting Tierce prior to my comments above. And why don't you call Tierce out for making the same comment you give me flack for? Which I was already giving her flack for!?

And I'll pass on your either/or request. No one else seemed confused by my post 650 comment.

havingfitz: What is there to reply to in your comments? I've already explained it: I was calling out several players on wagons that were not moving, but the main wagons were on my townreads. Parama was an alternative choice, but that wagon has been tried today, has no traction, and more importantly--I can read Parama better later on. 'Consolidating wagons' does not mean that everyone should vote the main wagons, it means that people need to make their votes count. I've been trying to do that.

Tierce finally addresses my comments directed at her. I can accept her explanation even if I disagree with her reads. As for your "Consolidating wagons" comment that doesn't apply to me. As I push in posts 706 and 711...the people who are on wagons that are not going anywhere (the onesie twosies) need to move their vote...but it should still be on someone they support. I did not advocate people voting you or Fakegod in lieu of someone they suspect...I just stated those were two wagons I supported.

Also Tierce...why am I probscum? For suspecting you?

Also...what are your reads now on Vi, Parama, and chesskid? They were initial wagons you would support that don't even make your current list. And what did Bunnylover and hiplop do to change your reads on them?

tl:dr;

KMA Majiffy regarding my gameplay and/or my join date. Also, I still suspect Tierce. I see a lot of inconsistencies in her play. I'd support a FG lynch as well but of the two wagons (as someone else commented on earlier)...I have a town feel from those on the Tierce wagon moreso than those supporting FGs.

[Majiffy]

tl:dr;

KMA Majiffy regarding my gameplay and/or my join date. Also, I still suspect Tierce. I see a lot of inconsistencies in her play. I'd support a FG lynch as well but of the two wagons (as someone else commented on earlier)...I have a town feel from those on the Tierce wagon moreso than those supporting FGs.

That's not much of an answer to why you seem to prefer sitting back and letting everyone else do the work for you.

[I Am Innocent]

@briz, re: 758, I originally asked you this:

"you announce your town reads of amrun and MOI, then say anyone who hopped on the Malthusis wagon is likely scum. Can you explain how these line up (Malthusis <> town read, but scum jumping on his wagon)?"

You seem to imply scum were jumping on Malthusis, but you don't have a town read on Malthusis? Why do you think scum would be jumping on scum in this situation?

***********

Re: Pidgey's 768: "IAI- 512 was very fluffy. Your 701 is kinda stupid, so you are avoiding pressure by joining which wagon you think is scummy, and just "making things interesting"? How do we know you are not scum just using a dumb excuse? Kinda fluffy overall, and ehh... Null at beast."

Yet in 747 I told pappums, when asked if I found Tierce more scummy than FG, "Slight lean towards no. When I look over the wagons tho, I see both townier players and better scumhunters on Tierce, so that made me feel comfortable about the switch."

How is this any different than what you say later in 782???

"I think you are more scummy than Tierce but I dont like the people on your wagon."

**********

@Tierce's 791
1) You could both be scum, but realistically probably one of you are not.
2) If one of you flip town, I will likely push hard on the other D2 yes. If one of you flips scum, I'll re-evaluate the voting patterns and determine the best possible lynch.
3) Don't you worry, I'll have plenty of opinions on the wagons once a flip is revealed.

FTR, I am much better at town reads and a much better scumhunter late in the game after scum have flipped. I am not Amrun or MOI, and can't typically nail scum D1, that is just not my M.O.

[DeathNote]

@Fitz- You act like Tierce is dilberlatly ignoring you :/

I dont see that at all and your posts is just nit picking on a player who has been all around in this game confronting several players which is probably why people are starting to vote Tierce. Maybe not... but the point is that when you nit pick like that, it just makes me frustrated and think you are tunneling. I am interested in seeing Tierce alignment just for reads on other players at this point.

[FakeGod]

Claim: Even Night Tracker