Mini 1,573: How Do You Want to Die? (Game over!)

[Snork]

Why are you telling me how to be a mason? I know how to play different roles. That's not what I asked you but it's irrelevant anyway. Questioning your claims at this point is worthless. If you guys are truly masons, then you're a decent threat to scum and they have to kill you.

I agree neither of you should have said anything or played any of this "hurdur i've got a sekrit" nonsense. You spent time confusing our reads on you for nothing.

Anyway... resetting my reads and junk.

Top two scum reads and why, pants?
Top two town reads and why (excluding ika)?

[Dr Pants]

i dont have that much time right now so Ill just give names. Ill provide an argument for why later

scum:
shroomish
antihero/SSK (depends on what shroomish flips)

town:
GM
Titus

I have my reasons for trusting Titus over Anti and I'll put them in a larger argument later today.

also sorry, I'm not trying to teach you how to play mafia, I was just trying to answer the question

[Snork]

k.

Curious about the GM townread.

Also, why are Anti/SSK dependent on Shroomish? In order for this to make sense, Anti would need to be bussing. I don't see the connection with SSK being dependent either, so that is a bit puzzling.

[ika]

may i aslo remind you that

you were a fucking mason who let scums hammer a townie

and never took the game seriously?

when i was clear as day that dagon was town?

then yes by all means we can spam this thread and have a lecutre on each other about it, seriously, all you did in that was be "trolllolololololol, im obvi town"

indirect claim of mason

Bleh i come back and nobody has anything for me to work on.

MORE RQS:

If you could have one person be town who would it be?

DR pants

everyone:

Ask someone a question.

Dr pants: whos the most town to you atm?

Hinting dr was mason with me

i got an idea for kicks,

reinoe: lets say dr pants is town, who would you suspect next?

another indicator that pants was mason with me

titus, dont even try me. you will quickly bark up the wrong tree

this ones more for titus, that is why i was telling you to not try me


also if you look at my actions toward pants, i have heavly hinted he was town most game

I'm on break and have a short one from work so this is breif atm:

VOTE: unvote

pants unvote as well when one of us dies we get townfrimed so we need eveyone else to do the voting if anything we should be tailend voters to maximize vote count analsis.

I suggest evryone justifies their votes on people right now and give a read list of town/scum (excluding us) this way we dont have scums trying to just sheep us.

I have more but time is short. I will lay out a full plan later

[goodmorning]

Obligatory "VCA is [usually] stupid" post.

As far as reads, I've pretty publicly sorted everyone except Anti and Titus (except, perhaps, BE, who I currently have at Null-Scum based on his recent posting).
I don't plan to sort them today.

[Snork]

we need eveyone else to do the voting if anything we should be tailend voters to maximize vote count analsis.

Best thing you've said all game.

Those crumbs are also garbage. Both of yours and Pant's crumbs are absolutely horrendous. Don't ever call stuff like that crumbs ever again.

Also, GM, VCA is never stupid. I have caught more scum that way than using any other method. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you, but trying to discredit analysis is fucking atrocious.

[Snork]

It makes you sound like those crazy idiots who don't "believe" in vaccinating their walking timebomb children.

[goodmorning]

The only kind of VCA that is acceptable is the kind that analyses the timing of the votes of an individual.

To attempt to guess how many Scum are on a wagon and where is a baseless and WIFOM-y waste of time.

You are perfectly welcome to stop lecturing me on a subject I am rather intimately acquainted with.

[Snork]

I'm not lecturing you. I'm telling you that

1) You are not the authority on what works and what doesn't.

and

2) You attempting to discourage wagon analysis is scummy as hell.

One can absolutely make logical assumptions based on available information. It's what allows people to test those assumptions and solve the game. (If it wasn't clear, uh.. that's also

science

- are you saying scientists are stupid too?)

[Snork]

I mean, really.. who the hell are you to determine what is and isn't acceptable forms of analysis here when you have done fuck all in regards to any analysis period.

[goodmorning]

And you are said authority? Do tell.

I'm telling you simply that I have seen many people attempt VCA. I have seen little accomplished from it, if anything. I've seen it used by Scum to hide behind as an alternative to meaningful scumhunting. I've seen it manipulated by nearly everyone who uses it, so that it will say what they want it to say. I've seen people unconsciously bias themselves in their interpretations. I've seen Scum manipulate it by planning coordinated voting patterns. I've seen all-Town wagons. I've seen wagons with multiple Scum in a row on them. I've seen countless configurations of votes, and I can tell you once more, VCA has only ever been useful when used as part of the analysis of the individual.

If you have evidence that X is far more likely to jump on a Town wagon early/in the middle/late as Scum and X did it here, that's great. If you feel that Scum in general are more likely to jump on a Town wagon early/in the middle/late, you're making assumptions. And you know what they say when you assume...

[Snork]

I never said I was the authority, but I'm also not trying to act like it either. You're saying that wagon analysis is worthless because of the possible scenarios but you're ignoring the existence of supporting evidence that narrows those down. I never said to base a case solely on wagon analysis; I'm not sure why you think that's what I mean.

[goodmorning]

I didn't say you said to base a case on wagon analysis alone.
What supporting evidence?

I'm not going to address whether either of us is attempting to act an authority.

[Snork]

Supporting evidence in the thread.........

Were you referring to someone's VCA in particular? I didn't see any. But if you think it sucks you should explain why. VCA by itself, as a method, doesn't suck...

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: unvote

There is nobody playing under that name.

[Dr Pants]

UNVOTE:

I like the idea Ika

[Dr Pants]

analysis incoming in a bit

[Snork]

VOTE: unvote

There is nobody playing under that name.

i lol'd.

[Dr Pants]

Alright, lets go:

scum reads:

shroomish:
There are a few reasons Shroomish stands out. He parked his vote on Reinoe early day 1 (4 pages into the game) and proceeded to lurk the rest of the day. Day 2 Shroomish opened with a series of statements on B_E, Ika, Titus, and Myself.

Spoiler:

@MOD- Are you sure it only takes three votes to lynch?

Well what did you think I was gonna do, B_E? That was highly unnecessary. Fucking opportunistic of you.
Pants is grasping at straws that aren't even there.
Titus' entry to today was weird as fuck to me.
Ika is pinging in every possibly way for me.
VOTE: IKA

However left his analysis at statements and never followed them up with any evidence. When pressed on this, he gives the following evidence for Ika being scum.

Spoiler:

@ika
Your continual push for RQS at the beginning
You say you have a plan, tell everyone just to know that you have a plan, and expect us to trust you, and I just caught your "crumb".
Your post seem to have a "superiority" attitude.
Titus' entry was weird, but he has good reasoning for voting which I like.


Why was Titus' entry weird as fuck? Person who said I was going off gut and some other shit- Yeah, this was gut. It felt weird. My gut is either spot on, or way off. I'm thinking it's 100% accurate.

His reasoning for his Ika vote was for pushing RQS, having a "superiority" attitude, and for talking about the plan. While suspicion of Ika isn't scummy, the fact that Shroomish can't articulate why Ika deserves a vote makes him scummy. After this he proceeds to lurk until post 639, where he switches his vote to Snork before immediately switching back to Ika. Antihero was right to say that Shroomish doesn't have the right to come in at the last second and act like he's been participating, because Shroomish hasn't been. Shroomish is my pick for lurky-scum.


SSK:
SSK is another possibility for a lurky-scum player. Analyzing SSK is basically impossible because all he has done is vote, without really explaining what his thought process is. SSK was absent all of day 1 except the beginning and the hammer. Day 2 he sheeped the wagons on Shroomish and Antihero that Ika and I were on. Unfortunately my position on him is mostly gut because there's nothing else I can analyze. I'd wait on an SSK lynch to see where his vote ends up by the end of the day.

Antihero:
Antihero is a harder one. Obviously, he's a good player, so finding inconsistencies and odd patterns like with SSK and Shroomish really isn't the thing to do. Specifically my read on Anti is based in part on his claim and his interactions with me. One of the mafia theory tidbits I was first told was that if someone claims RoleBlocker they should be lynched. The logic behind this is that RB is not an alignment indicative role, and as a town PR can actually harm other town PRs. As a scum PR, it can only harm town PRs. The fact that Anti claimed as well to visit Grey Ice is pretty convenient. Why tell us this now, and not when someone comes forth challenging him on this? Additionally, the fact that he made a huge fuss of "you're playing to scum's win-con" is BS since its not an alignment indicative role. On a more personal note, discussions between myself and Anti tend to be Anti telling me why my reads/arguments are wrong. Contrast this with Titus, in discussions I've had with Titus she's been trying to push me out of bad habits/play, essentially steering me towards more stable reads. Anti on the other hand has been attacking my play, and used this discrediting to push any argument I had of him being scum aside. When asked if anti would be willing to compromise, he said no because he doesn't "negotiate with scum-bags" (this last part may just be ego on his part).

Of these 3, I think the scummiest is Anti, followed by Shroomish, followed by SSK

town reads:

GoodMorning:
Upon reviewing day 1 GM looks pretty good. She called out what was going on with Reinoe correctly, and was basically one of the few who was actively defending Reinoe. The one knock I have on her is that she didn't push for a counter wagon, but it did seem like she was taken off guard by SSK's quickhammer. Day 2 she's been pretty reasonable, she didn't manage to get caught up in any of the 1v1's that were going on, which is a plus.

Titus:
I need to confer with Ika because their is history between the two, but Titus has seemed solid today. She read Ika until she caught on to what Ika was doing, shifted focus to Anti, and stuck with it. She's been willing to work with other people in order to mediate.

For both Titus and GM there reads get solidified by both of them being off the Reinoe wagon. Depending upon how today works out can strengthen/weaken these as well.

[ika]

UNVOTE:

back, snork, shut up, you dont like the crumbs, cry me a river you take it or you leave it. I have played a lot more games so I know what I'm doing.

As for my plan i was thinking about this game and sevral things occured to me. However i will keep my thoughts all to meself atm. I will colaberate with pant tonight to see what i now know. I think i figured this game mostly out off sevral indications.

Heres what I am going to do. I am going to be more passive in giving anysis and more question based. That way come nightfall i can tell pants what i have found in event i die. I suggest pants does likewise.

We have plenty of time for this game so i will check back later.

@snork: what casued you to go from anti=scum is lurking to anti is town?
who are you willing to lynch?

i will have more when i get back i have sevral other things going on atm but im pretty sure theres something i now know, all i need is everyone else imputs.

p-edit: pants, ill confer with you tonight on titus. as for our votes i consider us to be hammer/l-1 voters for now ignore our reads and who we want o lynch that way we can maximize effecency on scum hunting. us wanting to hammer or lynch someone will make it easier for scums to smokescreen in a myslynch. If we stay out of it we can essesaly force scums to work it out

[Snork]

Anti

I'd actually like to hear your reasoning for claiming when and how you did. Can you explain please?

Pants

I hope you'll understand that I take your reads/analysis with a giant grain of salt... considering. Earlier you said that Anti/SSK would only be scum based on Shroomish's flip. Actually.... lemme quote that sucker

i dont have that much time right now so Ill just give names. Ill provide an argument for why later

scum:
shroomish
antihero/SSK (depends on what shroomish flips)

town:
GM
Titus

I have my reasons for trusting Titus over Anti and I'll put them in a larger argument later today.

also sorry, I'm not trying to teach you how to play mafia, I was just trying to answer the question

k.

Curious about the GM townread.

Also, why are Anti/SSK dependent on Shroomish? In order for this to make sense, Anti would need to be bussing. I don't see the connection with SSK being dependent either, so that is a bit puzzling

.

Are they scum if Shroomish flips town or if he flips scum? Why?

[Snork]

I have played a lot more games so I know what I'm doing.

actually you havent

k going back to reading the rest of your post.

[Snork]

@snork: what casued you to go from anti=scum is lurking to anti is town?
who are you willing to lynch?

the bit about anti is scum for lurking was somewhat of a joke. it was meant to get him to engage, which he did.

I'd lynch Kitoari or SSK today I think. Kitoari mainly because it really fucking pisses me off that a slot is entirely null because the asshole who signed up to play the game isn't fucking playing. I was serious about blacklisting him. If he's town it's just so incredibly selfish and rude and he should be severely punished in some way. That said, I'm paranoid the slot is town and as much as I hate the fucker I really want someone to fix it for me and be there and be readable. I'm losing my patience though. SSK over Kitoari for sure, and I did explain it somewhere a few posts back but his voting record, and I don't just mean the hammer vote, it all just sucks and reeks of opportunism.

[ika]

I have played a lot more games so I know what I'm doing.

actually you havent

k going back to reading the rest of your post.

I have played off site a lot more so yes i do know what I'm doing. You can act all butthurt but still idc.

@snork: what casued you to go from anti=scum is lurking to anti is town?
who are you willing to lynch?

the bit about anti is scum for lurking was somewhat of a joke. it was meant to get him to engage, which he did.

I'd lynch Kitoari or SSK today I think. Kitoari mainly because it really fucking pisses me off that a slot is entirely null because the asshole who signed up to play the game isn't fucking playing. I was serious about blacklisting him. If he's town it's just so incredibly selfish and rude and he should be severely punished in some way. That said, I'm paranoid the slot is town and as much as I hate the fucker I really want someone to fix it for me and be there and be readable. I'm losing my patience though. SSK over Kitoari for sure, and I did explain it somewhere a few posts back but his voting record, and I don't just mean the hammer vote, it all just sucks and reeks of opportunism.

What about anti/shroom anyone else?

Lynching kitori is stupid btw if anything it leads to no info if town.

Also if you are fine with lynch SSK why not vote him right now?

[Snork]

I have played off site a lot more so yes i do know what I'm doing. You can act all butthurt but still idc.

Yes I know where you come from. You and Titus. And I can guarantee that I've played more games than both of you. Not sure what there's to be butthurt about; you're the one who didn't like what I said about your crappy crumbs. In any case, I like you so there's that.