Mafiascum.net

You can't make a case on godscum predicated on me being a shit scum player

So you’re saying you’re not scum because you’re better than that, but I am because?

because i'm cute.

Profil you had me as scum earlier after NSG voted me, what changed?

In post 777, GirlInFreezer wrote:because i'm cute.

Love you too.

wanna lynch profii with me?

I have him as town, so not at this point in time.

In post 778, Kokichi Oma wrote:Profil you had me as scum earlier after NSG voted me, what changed?

well this post turned out to be a bit of a sprawl of thoughts, oops... (advance warning)

mainly, my read on you was pretty early/weak and also that I'm very convinced on Aronis/GIF, obviously there can only be 2.

My read on you was based on that PM Speculation stuff, which is ok when the game is kind of finding it's direction and to see how you deal with the scum read - but it doesn't really warrant progressing if your play isn't alarming as we get going. Whereas the interactions between Aronis/GIF seem clear to me, also the way Aronis has disappeared and the way GIF has no direction despite being a good player seems outrageous to me.

I don't think I've ever played T/T with you which is when I get my best reads, therefore my ability to be certain on you is not great, but you are not a cause for concern right now compared to others. That doesn't mean if I'm wrong on Aronis/GIF that you are next in line, it probably means if I'm wrong, then full reset from me.

I am pretty sure Aronis has gone slightly awol as pressure is on right now and he isn't sure how to deal with it, but he is approaching prod territory so I look forward to that.
Also, there are the mutual scum reads very early between Gif and Aronis, which never really follow through to any real pressure - I'd particularly expect GIF to have honed in on something by now, not just calling me scum whenever I put the pressure on him.

I also refer back to my Creature vote. The time line in my head goes a little bit like this:

3 votes on GIF
GIF gets upset
people remove votes because GIF upset (Really? no one has seen that before?)
I gave GIF an out with a creature vote, given he had been looking towards the inactives at that period in time.
GIF doesn't follow it

to me, the natural thing to do, particularly on day 1 is to wagon an inactive slot and see what happens, hence I am scum reading aronis because he has succumbed to pressure. However, I think GIF didn't want to get on the "obvious town cred" creature wagon, for that reason, the other reason being, pressure on Creature would mean more creature content, meaning one more slot that becomes obv-town - making it harder for scum.

UNVOTE:

I'm a bit zoned out of this game. Need to consult with my friend before we decide who to lynch.

thank you @kokichi and @gif for being willing to reconsider.

starting now, i’m going to fully reconsider everyone based on their iso entirely, with the exception of shoshin — who is strong town — given that my especially strong townreads have proven to be right time and time again.

from the PoE pool, I should have my official scum reads. just like lynchpin, there honestly is not a ridiculous amount of content that seriously has scumpinged me, so I need to reassess everything and find out who here is truly town and see if i can locate a scummy iso that has been neglected/written off as possibly town by me so far.

in the mean time, VOTE: Unvote

In post 774, GirlInFreezer wrote:@shoshin sheep me sheeping you please
@NSG let's lynch profii that last post was awful

Everyone else hop aboard at their leisure

I think high odds of profii/aronis but aronis might be town whereas profii is not.

actually, that last post was pretty awful.

like:

In post 771, profii wrote:I’m not going to push you today because I was amazed that everyone backed off on you when you became the worlds biggest cry baby about being scum read but surely we’ve all seen that boring AtE from you before - it’s so fake

The posturing from you around Aronis is clear to see - you have been saying he could be scum alllllll day but won’t follow up with anything concrete

It’s super super obvious you and Aronis are the scum team but you can be pushed after a JK so people are a bit more immune to your crying later

for one, after newbie 1851 i think it was, profii probably shouldn't be talking about fake AtE coming from you. unless he's making some specific distinction between ate you're doing here and ate you've done before, profii should know that what you're saying here is in no way an inherent scumtell.

plus, i don't think i could ever agree with someone saying that a full scumteam is obvious - at least, in most scenarios, and especially on day one.

I’m saying it’s practically scripted and easy to fake as either alignment so it’s nothing to me

In post 787, profii wrote:I’m saying it’s practically scripted and easy to fake as either alignment so it’s nothing to me

so if it's nai then where does your reason for scumreading gif come in in the first place?

anyways, despite that post being pretty bad i think i kind of agree with creature when it comes to scumreads, although i can't really see where a nicorobin read anywhere separate from null would come in, unless you're looking at role pm choice meta.

He’s picking on the inactives and not finding anything scummy apart from when I push him - there’s enough content to say I want more than that

Also look at how he deals with Aronis as time goes on if you flick through the ISO - There are enough scum reads on Aronis to say his behaviour is legit scummy and not some mislynch push by real scum but GIF never fully commits to it either way - posturing for the flip if you will. I’d expect town to either go “sheep” or “no way guys, this is town meta” etc but lack of commitment overall from GIf

Aronis has gone awol as pressure has been applied which doesn’t help the above points

warning: i have some softball games this evening, so i will do everything i can until then.

let's start with nicorobin

I could see nicorobin choosing scum, as she tends to show more general interest in terms of posts in her scum games. It appears, however, to be consistent with both her scum and town meta not to lay a vote down right when the game starts, and instead not vote for awhile. This makes her difficult to sort.

she created her own role here in mini theme 2008, where her role was mafia-aligned (and notably so was kokichi's in that game), so it is very possible nicorobin would choose a scum role--if available to her. in the game mentioned here, she wanted a role with a nk ability, and was able to secure the exact role she wanted.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=76100

but overall, slight townlean maybe (as in 66% town on first impressions; whereas 34% she is scum), as she tends to post much less frequently in town games overall and reach prod range in them frequently--she already has reached prod range in this game. she has only 8 posts so far; the fewest outside of her is 38 from nsg, so talk about deficiency for us in that regard.

after reviewing all iso's, i will reassess her relative towniness, along with everyone else's based off the ratings i mark down.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
northsidegal: upon reinvestigation, she seems to be very focused on trying to sort players, which i like coming from nsg. automatically figures this to be a hard playerlist to read in her first post. she asks rc about transformers mafia where i was scum in 326; agrees with shoshin's comment of me being town in 330 because she got the impression i am more lamist-y in my scum games, meaning that she was actively trying to sort me there--this does not look like scum nsg to me at first sight seeing this. asks why people are townreading kokichi then in 331 because nsg is scumreading kokichi--which is a good cause for asking. she actively, thus, is trying to sort kokichi there. also don't think nsg scum automatically townreads me because of lynchpin mafia, where scum nsg helped towards lynching me along with creature also helping on D1. 341 she catches up and immediately follows up with reasoning for her scumread of kokichi--which looks like town nsg to me to a further extent--so this is looking like a pretty strong early townread given that i am pretty good as far as track record goes in my few games of experience at detecting which games of hers she is scum in.

another note: i do think nsg's scumread of kokichi is very valid so far, given that kokichi seems to have less strong stances on people being scum as town from my experience there and to generally be a bit more confused and not so... focused on someone being scummy. it seems he may have been parroting an early majority to later hop on my lynchwagon by scumreading me, since i had an early townread of kokichi. then again, i'm not an expert on kokichi, and really don't proclaim to be an expert on anyone in this game tbch.

nsg admits to not being able to read profii well at all in 344, validating again that she is actively sorting people while taking a town stance on profii. additionally, she is attempting to sort him, whereas if she were scum she could be saying she has a null read instead of taking a stance on him because of her history of being wrong on him. i like that she took a stance here!

In post 354, northsidegal wrote:????

i didn't say profii was town at all, especially not

because

of something that i once did as scum... i wondered and put it out there if it was wrong to townread him for having those theories and as a counterargument to my own thinking reflected on how i got townread for the same thing in one of my own scum games.

when you say that i "said that you're overconfident to stoke gif's paranoia", why are you coming from the position of me already being scum? within what i said itself i really don't think there's a reason to interpret it that way - it only makes sense if you already think that i'm scum and so you look at that action from a scum perspective. so where is that perspective coming from in the first place? that is, on its own what i said is decidedly

not

just stoking paranoia - it's just me commenting on something that stood out to me while reading that i agreed with having remembered something from mini normal 2012. (and, this really isn't a useful discussion to get into, but yes, overconfidence was a problem in that game, or at least a contributing factor to a town loss - that's not meant to be a personal attack on you or anything of that nature, it's just me remembering what went wrong during that game).

this comment reads genuine to me--and not like scum being upset at being scumread, it reads like town being upset at being scumread.

In post 359, northsidegal wrote:you're still misinterpreting what i'm saying. never once have i said that he feels town

FOR

doing something that i once did as scum. i said on a gut level i want to townread him for that theory thing,

BUT

i was once townread as scum for doing that.

i don't think scum would ever find a particular player to be a townlean for something they have done as scum (and if anything scum probably scumreads them for it), so this looks incredibly genuine to me and as town trying to sort this particular player. the only exception would be if they take the stance that everyone is town, but nsg is not. so this is a heavily town-looking iso for me, and good enough for me to move on with confidence

shoshin and nsg can be my town pool now while i reinvestigate some other players! i can make a town stance for literally everything nsg has done, so that makes me feel good there.

confidence that nsg is town: 90%+; same general pool as shoshin.

Aronis: says he will be obvtown 24 hours after gamestart in 11, which puts pressure on him to follow through --> although since it is not obvious he is town right now, i don't know what to make of that.

lol 28 and 30: jocularly wanting to quicklynch kokichi by being quickhammer and wanting to lynch kokichi to find out what alignment he is. i think scum is more prone to try and take advantage of statements like this, rather than to actually be the ones to MAKE them because it might make them feel uncomfortable, as assuredly it could be used against them --> so the jocularity of this gave me an early townlean there that has truthfully upheld to the extent that i am not willing to make him the main wagon here. even asks kokichi to self-vote in 55 to make it happen.

158: takes unpopular early stance of gif likely being scum, rather than going with the flow, which looks good to me. however, idk how he thought nsg was town for sure on the basis of one post lmao. but then again, i don't think scum states that, idk. 163 backs up his nsg townread too. so far, aronis reads like unorthodox town to me more than scum.

166, 167, and 170 seem pretty certain about a gif-profii scum team, which is kinda weird lol.

the jocularity of his reads overall just don't seem like scum clowning around to me on a tonal level; and the overall unpopularity of some of his stances support that read, but i get that i am taking an unpopular stance here myself. i could be wrong

and he states profii and nsg being scum in 338 lmao, which is a clear contrast to him stating that he does not scum hunt until like d3. but overall his iso is just too much of a joke in tone for me to scumread him, idk why this is the case, but if he is scum i will be kinda frustrated for not sensing that.

i will state i am roughly 78% sure aronis is town. this leaves 22% room for error.

so, shoshin = nsg > aronis > nicorobin so far in terms of towniness.





my early impression is scum is in kokichi, gif, and profii. will challenge that when digging into their iso's here shortly. i am going from least posts to most posts currently to form reads.


creature --> kokichi --> profii --> gif coming up, in that order

also aronis went from townreading to scumreading nsg based off my vote or sth, so idk what went on there.

can you explain that progression @aronis? i was not actually scum reading nsg when i voted her --> simply just wanted to lay a vote down somewhere!

You're 78% sure Aronis is town? How'd you even come to that number?

In post 781, NicoRobin wrote:I have him as town, so not at this point in time.

Why is Profii town to you?

In post 794, Shoshin wrote:You're 78% sure Aronis is town? How'd you even come to that number?

he's playing a jokily bold game if scum, as it is somewhat easy i guess to attack his play (although i do not seriously see real cause for it), and i genuinely don't think town is the primary reason he is l-2 right now; i think scum is finding him to be a possible mislynch wagon though i am uncertain; 78 is just me quantifying my confidence. i feel he is more likely town than scum, and a serious mislynch option

that said, i will bite it if he flips scum. i would surprise me, a little bit

creature

lol, already an excuse in 31 for not being active

asks about whether he should be worried about towning in 35: if you are town, i would say yes. why not? lol. idk the reason to ask that

directs people to get off my wagon in 215: a bit late, but given he used a wagon on me to win as scum in lynchpin, i do not think scum him asks for people to get off my wagon there.

too much WIFOM in 220, but wow it gave me a laugh, re: "lol if it's NSG and I again."

questions townreads a lot in a way scum creature might perhaps? asks why shoshin should be locktown to me when she asked that to me in 216 (which might be something a scum player would ask in response to that notably), lol's @ aronis's townread of creature wherein he brings attention to aronis liking one of creature's posts by bolding it in 221, questions aronis's town for sure read on nsg in 222. in 226, says he can't work around obvtowning, which is an excuse :-/

directs me to leave nsg for later and not wagonpark there which maybe scum creature does not do, idk, in 293. [post]

upon re-review, i am not all that certain creature is town here. he seems more engaged overall though, so i will put him as 70% town. not as sure as i was initially, but still think he overall is trending towards town.

i am, however, bad at reading creature and rarely take stances outside of him being null, because he is a frustrating player for me to sort. so i am open to being wrong here.


so far --> towniest to least town --> shoshin = NSG > aronis > creature > nicorobin.

now let me sort the 3 primary players who have been pinging me recently.






@creature: i am curious why you are wanting to look into nsg.

kokichi: sets up lynch on creature in 33 if he does not towntell early. why? so a mislynch happens perhaps?

but in post 40, in response to shoshin after i voted creature, kokichi echoes creature is probably town. and if he is not, that will be clear later. idk why 10 pages is supposably enough room for kokichi to advocate a lynch on creature, but it's something i do not like.

115 felt opportunistic to me, and similar of a response to what my scum partner in newbie 1875 -- platfleece -- said to invisibility early in that game of "What do you have to say in your defense, invis?" -- when he was L-2 in rvs. that is the type of vibe it gives me. it feels like it is fishing for information that would have net negative utility to town, but net positive utility to scum.

228: first scumlean is on me--which has stayed oddly consistent so far.

277: expresses concerns of nsg not posting, so as to call attention to her. this has more net scum motive than town motive, overall.

392: sure keep clinging on to the narrative that creature is easy to sort. this has proven wrong for me so far largely, and it seems like you want to possibly keep him alive as mislynch potential later, idk.

477: the irony is this post is pretty aggressive.


492: do not remember this question about nico, but he is definitely way more lurkier as town than scum, so idk what you mean there. it's easily proveable by the number of prods he has gotten in town games.

520: this vote by kokichi on me was a little oddly timed i think, and with no attached reasoning. first vote for kokichi.

607: lol @ her thanking gif for sheeping on me when she herself had no reasoning attached to her vote :-X
i think kokichi is scum here

613: why are you so attentive kokichi to tracking the voting patterns of gif? is it because you are scum partners? or is profii your scum partner? time will tell.
and anyway my post called attention directly to the fact that he changed his vote many times. so what game are you reading there? seems like you are distorting what i directly put in front of you.

614: perfect timing for scum to step in and spread paranoia about my rc/gif vote/stance, so yeah it just seems biased that you are so heavily tending towards the fact that i am scum no matter what, kokichi. i do not think town you is like this at all.


i cannot reason with most of kokichi's content so far coming from town, therefore clear scumlean here. likeliness of being town: 38 %

i will finish this iso later but i seriously think kokichi is scum here after reinvestigating. do not know if partner would be profii OR gif yet.

and i think this is enough for me to VOTE: Kokichi, having acknowledged this now.