Micro 991: Names on the List [game over!]

[Datisi]

Vote count 1.16

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-03 15:00:00).

execution

Radja [3]:

Not_Mafia, Infinity 324, DkKoba

Lostego [2]:

Ahsoka, Raya36

Infinity 324 [1]:

clidd

Ahsoka [1]:

Radja

Not_Mafia [1]:

Lostego

DkKoba [1]:

Gimli son of Glóin

Not Voting [0]:

game state

Doom Counter

is currently at

zero

.
~ With

3

Mafia alive, the Town will be endgamed once they are brought down to

3

members.

Previously published lists:
~ none

mod notes

~ infinity 324 is the new horsewoman
~ beep

[clidd]

I'm back, reading soon.

By the way, welcome Infinity, It's a hemorrhagic pleasure to have you here.

I didn’t look closely at what you typed, but from the format I imagine you must be a perceptive person. This is something I do value.

[DkKoba]

i'll take this

can u use this image for the next one

[Infinity 324]

theres just something that surprised me - > the way you townread me is like different from the way you caught me as scum last time, i.e. I would expect you to point out that I didn't exhibit that tell there.

maybe that games just been so long ago but yeah.

The readslist thing, or the fact that you've kept up your solviness all day phase?

Idk, the way I read you involves a lot of gut and that was the best way I could describe it. I was TRing you before the clidd push but that whole sequence is something I can point to specifically as being very unlikely to come from scum. Clidd said the same thing, but he didn't weight it heavily enough imo.

[DkKoba]

hmmm ok

*climbs into infinity's pocket*

[Infinity 324]

Don't you think it is inconsistent for scum!Radja to not follow a vote in his elimination pool and sound dissonant by voting you?

I read it more genuine than that. Makes sense to want to sort someone null that has some traction right now?

this and the fact that 2 people I'm townreading were voting there at the time.

clidd seems to be the first one picking up on me voting outside of my execution pool. More town points for you.

I can see how like of reasoning is +town a little bit, but it used to be very common for people to give townpoints for guessing reasoning, and this feels similar enough to that. I don't think it's a super weird thing for scum to fake.

[Infinity 324]

Changing the subject, the fact of you voting someone null and not exactly someone in your execution pool is probably the point that I am most sympathizing with my tl on you. It seemed very genuine in the sense that you did not feel obliged to necessarily explain why you were not voting for the execution pool, as it was something that was already on your mind, and as I also unconsciously omit details sometimes that are part of the process of how I get to some conclusions (mostly as town), I believe that we have something in common (which is giving more emotional substance to my read on you).

Ok this read actually feels really genuine. People tend to be biased towards people they have something in common with, so clidd weighting this read more than I do actually makes sense now. The part about unconciously omitting things is perceptive and true in general, although radja did imply that he did it on purpose in 271.

[Infinity 324]

I'm gonna take a break and look at raya later

[clidd]

Gonna attempt to sort some of my unsorted players. Sorry for the long post.

Spoiler:

NM:
Not much to take from his posts. I do find the Radja fixation weird. I know typical NM won't explain any reads D1 so it's pretty tough to follow any progression but there appears to be none on this read. Also don't like the Radja/Gimli/Horse solve. I haven't sorted Radja yet but the other two appear town to me. NM is still null, leaning scum if anything (although this is in part due to PoE, not just the few concerns mentions).

Radja:
Not much here from Radja either. His 251 is alright, however vague. It was early in the game though. I don't really agree with his points on Koba being scummy just because I know Koba would do that as town, but the analysis still seems fine without maybe knowing Koba super well. I still think voting for someone in the idkpool was a good play. I feel like scum would be more conscious of their vote needing to make perfect sense. As well as this scum want to focus on a miselim, not sort their nulls. I wish more came of it though to back this up. It's difficult for me to analyze the post about me since it's just describing why he thought I was town but the reasons he posted made sense and were things I did in fact do. A couple of things there I could have easily done regardless of my alignment but he still makes a point of something that would be harder for me to have done as scum which shows a scumhunting attitude rather than just making up reads. Radja seems fine to me as a light townread. He hasn't done anything substantial but nothing pinged me as scummy either.

Lostego:
I don't remember having strong impression of volxen so I'll just focus on Lostego here. The first thing I noticed in his iso is his reads are very tonal based. "overly simulated", "condescending". Nothing wrong with this as early reads which is what they are. Just taking note of this in case it continues. Those are very easy reads for scum to make to avoid having to actually fake scumhunting and analysis. 399, what was the point in telling NM they can join the scumpool if they unvote radja by p16? If you genuinely think that NM and radja could be partners then why very clearly tell NM what to do to avoid your suspicions. I just don't see the purpose of posting that. I do like the sort of reanalysis being initiated in 407. It could be faked of course but it shows that there is thought going into his reads. I don't quite get the thought of radja being consensus? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I never got the impression he was consensus at any point? I do like the sudden reevaluation of radja thought instead of potentially just pushing for a miselim. The NM vote was bad and encouraging a wagon there was bad, I already explained why. I am assuming lostego is familiar with NM. I really like what he said about gimli and horsewomen in his most recent post. I don't completely agree as I explained already but it does show a deeper level of analysis which is especially better than what I was concerned with in his early iso. Overall I'm not super happy with Lostego's iso. It's not bad enough to call him scum but he's certainly not in my town/townlean pools.

Ahsoka:
Their first few posts were all mechanics or fluff which is NAI to me. 147 is a good take but not AI. I thought at first they might have been a bit overdefensive about not having reads but it seems to be more just their normal tone/playstyle so I no longer think this is the case. In the clidd/Ahsoka interaction I found myself taking Ahsoka's side my first read through which you can see a bit of in my discussion with clidd around then. If this hypothetically was a TvS situation I believe Ahsoka would be the town. I also agree with the points made against clidd during that interaction. The concern of horsewoman pocketing seemed town to me as it shows a natural suspicion town should have when being praised etc. This could just be how horsewoman expresses their points though as I just felt the same way from her in my last catchup. (Kind of unrelated to Ahsoka but seeing that just made me realize that). 366 was a good take as well. More good-play-indicative than town-indicative though. I'm having a hard time reading the bulk of the Koba/Ahsoka interaction. I may come back to it another time. I'm interested to hear more of the Koba/me pairing they mentioned recently. Ahsoka gets a town read.

New list: (all in order of strength)
Town: Gimli, Ahsoka
Townlean: Horse, Radja
Null: NM, Koba
Scumlean: Lostego
Scum: Clidd

Moving here for a bit
VOTE: Lostego

NM is hardly going to leave the null zone unless he does something, I agree. I'm considering resolving it by PoE, depending on the conclusions I have about other players.

Radja seems to be someone who can potentially make mistakes in both alignments, but as I mentioned in post 301, it also depends on whether he shows more dissonance as town or scum. My read on him is a mixture of interpretation of emotional + rational behavior, but outside that angle, I couldn't find any more reasons to expand what I think. He lacks more engagement with the game.

Hum, I need to do an ISO analysis of Lostego before commenting on what I think about your points. This is something I would have been able to do if I didn't have some problems in my energy levels recently. I hope to be able to do it by tomorrow.

Your impressions of Ahsoka are decent, although the presumption of a possible tvs scenario between me and Ahsoka having scum!me vs town!Ahsoka does not strike me as impartial in the third person evaluative sense, but if I consider that I am one of you bigger suspects, it’s normal for bias to point to a scenario that makes more sense with me being scum to you.

[clidd]

clidd i want you to try and refrain from just posting games that im not gonna read as a means of comparison. i want to compare what you're doing now, and the last time we talked you said you lead with conjecture to reach conclusions. this is fine, but the problem that remains is where your conclusions are leading you and what purpose you have behind them. i cannot figure this out right now and its becoming a minor issue, so try and condense all your speculation into one post that affirms to me that youre actually thinking about the events you perceive instead of just writing tall stories.

let koba slank for a bit. i dont want to be shut down on n_m because he will eventually need to be sorted and there are no PRs to do this.

I didn't quite understand what you want me to do, but I'll try to make my process more transparent for you to understand.

Although my playstyle remains a weaker version of what I showed you and I don't think it will change.

[clidd]

I was trying to understand if there was something AI in the secluded form that Dk started approaching Ahsoka when they discovered her identity, but I imagine it must be just respect, regardless of alignment.

[Infinity 324]

Koba, I'm not sure if posts like that ^ contributed to your SR on clidd, because normally I think why would someone post that as town? But I think his style is just posting everything he's thinking.

[clidd]

I don't post exactly everything I'm thinking about, but I confess that many things I post can be seen as difficult to come from a normal town perspective.

In this context, abnormal = scummy.

But I believe that Dk has contextualized other reasons to suspect me, such as my apathy during their discussion with Gimli.

[Raya36]

That's reasonable. I was quite fluffy at the start of this game as well as many others. What do you mean by to the naked eye? Is there some hidden meaning I missed?

Yes, but most people don't see its purpose of creating a stick in the gamestate for people to atmosphere around, and easing pressure when necessary, these ebbs and flow in the gamestate is the key to filtering out who scum is.

Yeah I suppose most people wouldn't look at it that way. An interesting take on fluff. Plus the game does have to start somewhere.

Welcome to the game infinity. Why do you think my read on radja is bad and what do you dislike about my push on Koba?
I disagree with almost everything you said in that entry.

Gonna attempt to sort some of my unsorted players. Sorry for the long post.

Spoiler:

NM:
Not much to take from his posts. I do find the Radja fixation weird. I know typical NM won't explain any reads D1 so it's pretty tough to follow any progression but there appears to be none on this read. Also don't like the Radja/Gimli/Horse solve. I haven't sorted Radja yet but the other two appear town to me. NM is still null, leaning scum if anything (although this is in part due to PoE, not just the few concerns mentions).

Radja:
Not much here from Radja either. His 251 is alright, however vague. It was early in the game though. I don't really agree with his points on Koba being scummy just because I know Koba would do that as town, but the analysis still seems fine without maybe knowing Koba super well. I still think voting for someone in the idkpool was a good play. I feel like scum would be more conscious of their vote needing to make perfect sense. As well as this scum want to focus on a miselim, not sort their nulls. I wish more came of it though to back this up. It's difficult for me to analyze the post about me since it's just describing why he thought I was town but the reasons he posted made sense and were things I did in fact do. A couple of things there I could have easily done regardless of my alignment but he still makes a point of something that would be harder for me to have done as scum which shows a scumhunting attitude rather than just making up reads. Radja seems fine to me as a light townread. He hasn't done anything substantial but nothing pinged me as scummy either.

Lostego:
I don't remember having strong impression of volxen so I'll just focus on Lostego here. The first thing I noticed in his iso is his reads are very tonal based. "overly simulated", "condescending". Nothing wrong with this as early reads which is what they are. Just taking note of this in case it continues. Those are very easy reads for scum to make to avoid having to actually fake scumhunting and analysis. 399, what was the point in telling NM they can join the scumpool if they unvote radja by p16? If you genuinely think that NM and radja could be partners then why very clearly tell NM what to do to avoid your suspicions. I just don't see the purpose of posting that. I do like the sort of reanalysis being initiated in 407. It could be faked of course but it shows that there is thought going into his reads. I don't quite get the thought of radja being consensus? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I never got the impression he was consensus at any point? I do like the sudden reevaluation of radja thought instead of potentially just pushing for a miselim. The NM vote was bad and encouraging a wagon there was bad, I already explained why. I am assuming lostego is familiar with NM. I really like what he said about gimli and horsewomen in his most recent post. I don't completely agree as I explained already but it does show a deeper level of analysis which is especially better than what I was concerned with in his early iso. Overall I'm not super happy with Lostego's iso. It's not bad enough to call him scum but he's certainly not in my town/townlean pools.

Ahsoka:
Their first few posts were all mechanics or fluff which is NAI to me. 147 is a good take but not AI. I thought at first they might have been a bit overdefensive about not having reads but it seems to be more just their normal tone/playstyle so I no longer think this is the case. In the clidd/Ahsoka interaction I found myself taking Ahsoka's side my first read through which you can see a bit of in my discussion with clidd around then. If this hypothetically was a TvS situation I believe Ahsoka would be the town. I also agree with the points made against clidd during that interaction. The concern of horsewoman pocketing seemed town to me as it shows a natural suspicion town should have when being praised etc. This could just be how horsewoman expresses their points though as I just felt the same way from her in my last catchup. (Kind of unrelated to Ahsoka but seeing that just made me realize that). 366 was a good take as well. More good-play-indicative than town-indicative though. I'm having a hard time reading the bulk of the Koba/Ahsoka interaction. I may come back to it another time. I'm interested to hear more of the Koba/me pairing they mentioned recently. Ahsoka gets a town read.

New list: (all in order of strength)
Town: Gimli, Ahsoka
Townlean: Horse, Radja
Null: NM, Koba
Scumlean: Lostego
Scum: Clidd

Moving here for a bit
VOTE: Lostego

NM is hardly going to leave the null zone unless he does something, I agree. I'm considering resolving it by PoE, depending on the conclusions I have about other players.

Radja seems to be someone who can potentially make mistakes in both alignments, but as I mentioned in post 301, it also depends on whether he shows more dissonance as town or scum. My read on him is a mixture of interpretation of emotional + rational behavior, but outside that angle, I couldn't find any more reasons to expand what I think. He lacks more engagement with the game.

Hum, I need to do an ISO analysis of Lostego before commenting on what I think about your points. This is something I would have been able to do if I didn't have some problems in my energy levels recently. I hope to be able to do it by tomorrow.

Your impressions of Ahsoka are decent, although the presumption of a possible tvs scenario between me and Ahsoka having scum!me vs town!Ahsoka does not strike me as impartial in the third person evaluative sense, but if I consider that I am one of you bigger suspects, it’s normal for bias to point to a scenario that makes more sense with me being scum to you.

I'm a but nervous leaving NM fully to PoE. There's a high potential some of my townreads are wrong. But we don't really have much of a choice until he does something as you said.
My town lean on Radja is very weak for those reasons. The town lean so far is mainly coming from him not being scummy rather than being particularly towny. Those in my null list have made me jump between alignments on them and those in the scum pools have given me reasons to believe that they could be scum.
I will admit to probably having some bias from my read on you in that potential tvs situation with Ahsoka. If I didn't previously scumread you from that situation than I likely wouldn't guess at tvs.

[clidd]

Hullo! not much to catch up today so let's just get on with it.

Relax, Gimli. She said she will provide reads, so we can wait and evaluate the content, and yes, Dk playstyle is just like that.

Just so we're clear, my current scumread on horsewoman is based off my interpretation of #665 and not because I think horsewoman won't post her reads eventually. I don't like that she felt the need to promise work instead of doing it, but that's minimal in comparison with her thoughts on koba and, now that you and raya mentioned it, I also find her thoughts on raya in this and 666 to be quite troublesome. The townlean is fine of course, but the strength of it seems off somehow and in many directions.

Speaking of which, I'll post a theory I have but it's not worth to talk about it further because it's an associative read that's more likely wrong than not, but I think dkkoba and horsewoman have a decent chance of being scum together. koba's push on me for my horsewoman read might be the single most surprising behaviour they took this game, and once they decided to pivot from their tunnel koba said me and horsewoman have to have the same alignment. I thought this was very interesting given my more or less universal townread status, as it could be a play designed to help horsewoman go deep by hard associating her with me as her guarantor if you will. I've seen no actual reasoning to why I must have the same alignment as horsewoman instead of e.g. just being wrong about her being town, so I'm very suspicious about this line of reasoning.

Fair enough.

The only point that I think you may be exaggerating is that of Dk + Hw, as I do not find the reasons you mentioned so suggestive to point to a scum partnership between the two. Regarding what Dk said about you + Hw, I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but this is just one of the scenarios they commented on, so I don't think it should be taken so seriously.

[clidd]

clidd is maybe a deepwolf if radja is scum since his reason to TR radja was not good imo, but his posting flows so naturally and his feelings about the game are so detailed that I think he's out of most people's scumranges

koba is town, their push on clidd and then taking a step back and re-evaluating felt really genuine

n_m is town cause I agree with their reads lmao

raya is I think a better pick for a radja scumbuddy as I think her play is more easily faked than clidd's at least, and she also had a bad reason to townlean radja. Also wasn't really a fan of the push on koba. I need to look at this slot more though, I remember her early posting being towny

radja hasn't done a single solvy thing all game

If ahsoka is flavor then I think he's town here because he's not trying to look town/take control of the game but not sure

Literally whenever gimli posts a read it feels like he's glossing over it a bit. It feels like he isn't giving his own reads the time they need to be properly articulated, which is super scummy.

Lostego slot has felt town to me but should probably look at this slot again as well

PEdit: cool

That is a good initial impression about me. You had to look specifically for one of the posts I commented on Radja to get the information from my read about it, something that I imagine you must have seen in my ISO and is generally a positive sign of interest in evaluating me.

I agree about Dk.

Nm is a special case, so I don't think our reads are going to be compatible at the moment.

Spicy, but at the same time, I have a hard time seeing scum!Raya in this game. I would advise you to take a look at her interactions with me, as they seemed genuine in the sense that she maintained a good posture to analyze me in good faith. But, if you didn't get to that part yet, I imagine that this interpretation is, in isolation, from your knowledge of the events around Radja, so I don't think it's bad faith on your part.

I think he tried, but it has not yet had significant success.

This was exactly one of the elements of my read about her, which is based on FL, but I'm still not a hundred percent sure because it is an account with an alternative playstyle.

I really don't like this impression and would like you to expand.

This one I don't have enough information to comment on yet.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Infinity 324

I'll take a long break and be back later.

I still don't have my normal energy levels, but I did a quick read of the rest of the Infinity posts and I am convinced that he is a slot that I have no interest in eliminating today.

[DkKoba]

this list is cursed

[Datisi]

Amélie replaces Radja.

[DkKoba]

hello. amelie ur the consensus probable elim so far what do you have to say

[Amélie]

Hello it will take me some time to catch up but I will try my best. For now, I need to sleep. 2:00 is not a healthy time to be awake.

[Infinity 324]

@clidd I had already read the game before replacing in. But I'm doing some ISOs now to solidify some of my reads. I'm definitely looking at raya and I see what you're saying about her early push on you being towny.

[Infinity 324]

@Raya Maybe I was being harsh about the radja read. His play gives me a strong gut impression that he's presenting things as solving that aren't really solving, which makes it feels faked. I'll try to explain that better later, but it's possible that you disagree with me and the read isn't objectively bad.

As for the koba push, you admitted that you weren't great at reading them, but you pushed them with what seemed to be quite a bit of confidence for a reason which I didn't find to be very strong (they started being aggressive after someone said they expect town!koba to be aggressive).

[Raya36]

Welcome Amélie

@Infinity I'd appreciate an explanation about your thoughts on Radja once you get a chance. As I said, my read is very light so maybe understanding your thoughts will help. I'm also hoping Amélie's content will help figure this slot out and give more to work with.

I definitely am not the best at reading Koba. That's why they're in my null pool. If I'm going to push something though I'm likely to push with some extent of confidence or else the likelihood of the push creating a useful reaction is less. I believe I did say after the fact that I'm unsure if their change in attitude was scummy or anti-town behavior and I think I also mentioned after the fact that it was a weak reason.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that makes sense.