Town EV is 40%. 11% chance of win D1, 22% chance of lynching 1 scum and a townie, then lynching the other scum, and 7% chance of mislynching then coming back to win.
In the 3-player rooms, I'm not sure that there is any scumhunting because there is no association. Maybe instead of separating the town into rooms, let everyone discuss and vote together but publicly label half of the town as group A, with one goon, and group B, with the other. On the first day, one player from each group must be lynched.
Just because a majority of a group of people decide it's okay doesn't mean it's not murder. - Cobblerfone
↑wgeurts wrote:The Open Game for Large Elemental just ended with a town win, I think as a result of this that the Fruit Vendor should be added again. It weakens an otherwise very powerful tracker in certain situations.
Problem is right move likely will be to never act outside of some counterclaim situations and then you are a named townie which helps town even more.
Guyett wrote:Also all 3 masons cant die over night as one would be wearing the bulletproof vest.
when a mason or mafia group is down to just 1 person left they have to choose whether they want to be smart and wear the vest or be brave and take a shot.
I just am not sure town really has much of a chance. While it may not be a likely occurrence, I have a massive issue passing a setup where town physically cannot win without some crosskills. That many scum factions is going to make any setup swingy, but I just don't like it being impossible for town to win in some situations. Hard I could live with, impossible not so much.
Town EV is 40%. 11% chance of win D1, 22% chance of lynching 1 scum and a townie, then lynching the other scum, and 7% chance of mislynching then coming back to win.
In the 3-player rooms, I'm not sure that there is any scumhunting because there is no association. Maybe instead of separating the town into rooms, let everyone discuss and vote together but publicly label half of the town as group A, with one goon, and group B, with the other. On the first day, one player from each group must be lynched.
Colors are modified because of the colorblind – Aneninen
Day chat happens
Each group (mafia and mason) have 1 gun and 1 bulletproof vest each.
No one person is assigned these items, they can rotate them between themselves.
However one person CANNOT wear the vest and carry the gun at the same time.
Gunsmith only gets a guilty on someone carrying a gun the night of the investigation.
We just finished the first game of it on my other site (we ran it with 5 VT instead of 6 VT and town won)
That is a very interesting Setup. As I said elsewhere a couple of times, Multiballs are inherently swingy, players signing up for a game like this should be aware of it, instead of whining about swingy games. ^_^
I assume if only one member of a certain Mafia/Mason faction is alive, they can choose whether use the Bulletproof Vest or the Gun.
________
However, if we take a closer look on the Setup, it boils down to this:
3
Mafia
3
Mafia
3
Mafia
3
Masons
1
Tracker
6
Vanilla Townies
Day chat happens
Each group (mafia and mason) have a Bulletproof Vest. At Night, each group can choose who is to wear the Vest. Those players who're wearing the Vest can't perform the Nightkill.
With one notable exception:
Tracker gives information about the targetted player too.
________
If we take a look at the Setup now, it seems to be clear (at least, it is clear for me) that Town don't have enough powers to cope with three Mafia factions. 3 Masons with a Nightkill and a Tracker. Crosskills can happen, sure, but the Masons may Miskill too (and yet again, the swinginess).
I would say, Town should get another PR (and by doing this the total amount of players gets 20). For example this:
1
Selective Cop
with a PM like this:
Each Night you can choose a color and target a player. If the player is affiliated with the Mafia of the color of your choice, you'll get a GUILTY read, otherwise you'll get a NOT GUILTY read.
Town EV is 40%. 11% chance of win D1, 22% chance of lynching 1 scum and a townie, then lynching the other scum, and 7% chance of mislynching then coming back to win.
In the 3-player rooms, I'm not sure that there is any scumhunting because there is no association. Maybe instead of separating the town into rooms, let everyone discuss and vote together but publicly label half of the town as group A, with one goon, and group B, with the other. On the first day, one player from each group must be lynched.
With Herodotos's idea it seems to be fun.
I assume the groups are known by everyone, aren't they?
What if the chat is "common" but Group A players can vote for members of their group and Group B players are doing the same?
I also assume the same goes for the Vengekill (eg. if the Mafia of Group A gets lynched, they can only Vengekill someone from Group A).
Should Mafia have a Daytalk?
Also, the Town EV seems to be more than 40% in this case, because of associative tells and the grouping.
Eg in case of a Day1 like this: (players are labelled as A1 A2 A3, B1 B2 B3, where A1 and B1 are Mafia)
– Mafia A gets lynched, Vengekills Townplayer A2
– Group B mislynches, B2 gets killed
A3 player is confirmed Town. It's a 3-player LyLo with a confirmed townie.
Or this:
– Both rooms perform mislynches, A2 and B2 are dead
– The town Kill succeeds, they kill A1
It's the same as above.
Also, I assume there's no Nightkill. If there were, B1 would kill A3 and Day2 would start with two players. So, Town could only win if both rooms lynched Mafia on Day1.
Therefore, it should be named as a Nightless Setup.
It's also good for players practicing LyLos, to a certain extent. ^_^
I think JasonWazza is correct, and I forgot that a townie would be confirmed in Scenario 2. 44% looks very good.
This setup is a lot like another game idea that I can't find but is somewhere in these 300 pages:
There is a mafia group, and the townies are evenly divided between two groups. So the role PM's are like:
2, 3, or 4 x You are a goon with _________.
N x You are a vanilla townie.
N x You are a chocolate townie.
The expected strategy was to massclaim D1.
Just because a majority of a group of people decide it's okay doesn't mean it's not murder. - Cobblerfone
In Herodotus' setup, people in one pod need to be able to discuss the pod opposite. Otherwise, it's not Mafia until day 2, because on day 1, there's no informed minority.
While I still welcome any ideas for my other Setup,
Matrix 14
(check out either this chat or the Wiki!), I present you another possible Setup.
ChargeMeUp!
(1) The basic Setup is the following:
– 3 Mafia
– 11 Townies
(So, it's a 11:3)
(2) In their first PM players get
only their alignment
. By confirming this, each player sends back a PM including
a desired PR
and
a name they wish to Charge-up
– from now on, it's called Pre-Game Vote.
No player is allowed to self-vote in this phase
.
Discussing about this topic Pre-Game in the Queue thread or anyone else must be strictly forbidden.
(Even if a discussion like that would be most probably pointless.)
The PRs players can choose are the following:
– Cop
– Rolecop
– Tracker
– Watcher
– Commuter
– Doctor
– Jailkeeper
– Redirector (Unable to Redirect Desperado)
– Midnight Desperado (has Nightkill (!), but if the Desperado would kill a townie, they die instead)
– Friendly Neighbour (Can target another player who learns their alignment)
– Recharger
– Mystic
Recharger and Mystic are PRs unique to the Setup.
A Recharger can target another player at Night; their target gains an additional shot (regardless of their role).
At Night a Mystic can learn
how many
actions have been performed during that Night, but not the nature of the actions themselves.
(3) Each player are getting
one
charge after each Pre-Game Vote. This means,
all PRs are essentially X-Shot in this Setup
!
However,
the following rules are applied in THIS order
:
– If a player gets no Pre-Game-Vote, they remain Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon (respectively).
– If there are two or more players choosing the same PR, the one who got
less
Pre-Game Vote gets the PR and the other one remains Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon.
– If
exactly
two players have the same PR and the same amount of Pre-Game Vote,
both
of them will get the desired PR.
– If
three or more
players have the same PR and the same amount of Pre-Game Vote,
all
of them will remain Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon.
Is it too complicated?
Here's an example!
(The player names are random, as far as I know there are no players with these names.)
Spoiler:
Player name
Chosen PR
Pre-Game Vote
Amount of Votes
Acquired PR
Amount of Shots
Androsynth
RoleCop
Ariloulaleelay
1
Town Rolecop
1
Ariloulaleelay
Watcher
Syreen
2
Vanilla Townie
Chmmr
Jailkeeper
Supox
0
Vanilla Townie
Ilwrath
Commuter
Mycon
0
Vanilla Townie
Melnorme
Rolecop
Syreen
1
Mafia Rolecop
1
Mycon
Watcher
Ariloulaleelay
1
Watcher
1
Orz
Recharger
Melnorme
0
Mafia Goon
Pkunk
Commuter
Syreen
0
Vanilla Townie
Slylandro
Friendly Neighbour
VUX
1
Town Friendly Neighbour
1
Supox
Doctor
Yehat
1
Town Doctor
1
Syreen
Redirector
VUX
3
Mafia Redirector
3
Umgah
Watcher
VUX
0
Vanilla Townie
VUX
Jailkeeper
Slylandro
3
Jailkeeper
3
Yehat
Midnight Desperado
Androsynth
1
Town Midnight Desperado
1
All the choices were determined randomly
, with the exception of the Mafia team's PR choices (marked by read color, here I left out obviously town-benefit PRs) and the Mafia team's pre-game votes (two voted for a buddy, one voted randomly so as to generate WIFOM).
These players remained Vanilla Townies because they didn't get any Pre-Game Votes: Chmmr, Ilwrath, Pkunk, Umgah. Orz remained Mafia Goon for the same reason.
Ariloulaleelay didn't get a PR because Mycon went for the same PR and he got less votes. (At this point Umgah is ignored because he didn't get any votes at all.)
Both Androsynth and Melnorme got Rolecop because both of them got the same amount of votes. (Both of them are 1-Shot.)
However, if Androsynth had voted for Umgah instead of Ariloulaleelay,
noone
would have gotten the Watcher PR because three players would have ended up with 1 votes.
(4) The Mafia
has
Daytalk and their Private Topic gets opened as soon as they get their Alignment PM. (So, they're able to discuss about their PR choices and votes.)
(5) As soon as everyone sent their PM about the chosen PR and the Pre-Game Vote, the players get informed about the acquired PR and the amount of shots.
No other information
is available for the players.
This means, noone knows who voted for them. If someone failed to get a PR, they won't be informed, why.
(6) The Resolution is the following (from highest to lowest priority):
Targets a player. If the Kidnapper dies, target players dies as well.
Can have a different name, it's unstandardized atm, idea is what counts.
^Can go with this version if the mafia roles just add un-needed complexities.
Edit:
Never mind, this one is best in my opinion. Would it be better if mafia were given more knowledge about who has targeted who prior to choosing their nightkill?
@Anen: I don't really know how to judge your setup. I would get rid of vig, which is just too strong in scum's hands and desperado, since that is insane town power. Bus driver is a chaos-enhancing role, not really sure if you should go for that. I'd have to see how the setup plays out to judge. All in all, I would replace some of the PR's with simpler ones or just leave them out altogether. I know that violates the principle of 1 fewer PR than player slots, but I think it'd improve the setup and steer it away from role madness towards c9++ esque setups.
@Molla: I like the last version best, others seem highly scumsided.
I phrased it badly; fixed. I want less choices than the amount of players so leaving out something isn't a problem.
As for Bus-Driver: I would like to include something definitely scum-benefit
but
not entirely useless for the town. Therefore, a Ninja or a Strongman wouldn't do the trick. Any ideas?
Maybe Vig
and
Desperado are too much together. I don't think Desperado is OP and I would really like to "revive" that PR (as far as I know it appears very, very rarely and it's a cool thing). And I still would like to see a possibility for some extra kills without turning it into a Multiball.
Suggestions?
I think your idea of scum-beneficial but not useless for town is bollocks; town is never going to choose that, so it doesn't matter if it's useless or almost useless for town. I think that you should instead add to the PR's that are strong for scum and moderately strong for town, for instance add a follower (which to some extent is like the existing rolecop).
I'm from mobile so I'll edit the post as I get home. How about removing the Vig and modifiey Desperado to Nightkill instead of Daykill? Plus, a simple Redirector instead of a Busdriver?
