Mafiascum.net

EBWOP:

My SSBF comment left out one of the quote's I was responding to:

Mina wrote:

Furcolow wrote: Believe it or not, I trust noone with a res kit because of a combination of it suggesting cult getting one in the rules, and SA2 fakeclaim of ressing which fucked the town pretty bad.

I'm not saying GOOD players don't res, but sometimes it can backfire! Having a res kit is null, and I've been reading SSBF back and forth personally. I don't have a strong town read on him.

To me, it's not so much that he's suggesting a "protown" plan (too many players are doing it in this game) as gut and meta. Faraday had a town read on SSBF early on (which I'd found weird, considering Faraday had questioned SSBF about that nonsensical post about the Lost Butterfly and Fate and wagon-hopping). As for me, it's his earnestness. SSBF is always a bit overeager and verbose. I was possibly the only player in ACOK Mafia not to instantly see through SK!SSBF, but still, he was scummier than this there (tried to suck up to people, deflect attention away from himself, parrot easy points, etc.). But I'll give scumvart the benefit of the doubt and check if I agree on SSBF's Bowser vote. :p

I should add that I'm leaning town on SSBF, but not certain of it.

~Mina

Lost Butterfly wrote:going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

So you think you can just say this, and then suddenly you'll be able to backtrack as much as you want without suspicion?

Cool story bro.

VP Baltar wrote:When I finish my reread, I'll go back and quote the things I think you've back tracked on. If I'm reading something wrong, then I'll let you off the hook. Furc = town has been fucking obv. since page three. And I'm pretty certain I just read your argument for that on like page 26 or something like that. I'll check back later for post numbers. Do you deny that you've backtracked several times this game?

In my first post, I offered reasons for Furc being all three possible alignments; since then I've said he was town. You can call it backtracking, I'd call it sorting out my read. I don't see why my read has to be the same from start to finish in a game.

You might think Furc = town was "obvious," but I didn't see you logically proving it to convince others to unvote him.

Regarding post/page numbers;
Post #492 I argue that Drippereth was unambiguous (p.20); I clarify why I think that Furc is town with reference to SA II in #500 (start of p.21). MoI unvoted in #502, citing my argument; SpyreX argued for it being a technical error in #547 (p.22).

AV wrote:You might think Furc = town was "obvious," but I didn't see you logically proving it to convince others to unvote him.

He claimed a fucking ward and a mod error with that ward AND that he didn't hear noise even though he didn't know the rules had changed regarding ward. Does it really take someone spelling it out before people can get that? I don't think there is anything that could be more obvious than Furc's investigator status and I'm suspicious of the people that were trying their damndest to shovel shit on him because they know they can rile him up and potentially get him mislynched.

Re: posts/pages
My point is that it shouldn't have taken actual town 20 pages to figure out Furc is town. You appear to have explained it before SpyreX, which is fine, but that only makes it slightly better imo. I feel that your first post was definitely meant to test the waters of calling him scummy. Why else would you "offer reasons" for him to be all three alignments without taking a solid stance on his alignment? All of the same evidence has been there from the beginning.

RC wrote:

LB wrote: going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

So you think you can just say this, and then suddenly you'll be able to backtrack as much as you want without suspicion?

Cool story bro.

Basically. Excuse making at its finest. "Just because we flop positions to fit the changing of the tides doesn't make us scummy because we're a hydra." ffff

Also,

This is a fight I definitely want to get into and a place people should be paying more attention. I know I'm not going to out word Mina, but I'd like to highlight some important quotes later today or tomorrow so people can see what I'm talking about. In the meantime, wagon ho!

totallynotmafia wrote:

rewq455 wrote:

totallynotmafia wrote:

Wicked wrote:I still want Benmage to try and kill Fate while somebody protects him. This way we can have a confirmed town robbing graves and robbing graves will confirm that they aren't going murderer.

Why do you think that robbing graves means they aren't going murderer? I actually think it would be a good strategy for a murderer, as they can just use that as an excuse for having heaps of insanities.

Which makes me a bit suspicious of ReaperCharlie offering to take the position of grave robber (I kinda like what he said about hito, but it could have just been an opportunistic way to put himself forward as grave robber), I've been thinking he's town but this makes me think he might be going the murderer route, especially coupled with one of his early posts where he felt he needed to say he searched for a resuscitation kit when asked if he warded, rather than just saying no.

I'm thinking RC should prove he has a rez kit by being the one to rez Fate tonight.

I agree with RC using the Rez kit, however the Murderer is a solo win role, so there would be no one covering for their robs, and you can do 2 free actions per night, and the graverob alignments are publicly announced, so there would be 2 robs a night by the robber, making it impossible to:
A. Achieve the win condition or
B. Go murderer
The murderer would not be able to hide insanities when grave robbing, as they would not have any night actions to stalk/kill to get other insanities with. That is why I am for Fate getting (attempted) murdered by BenMage and then being assigned grave robber after that.

I'm not sure I understand you, but are you basically saying the grave robber will rob two graves each night and thus have no room for other night actions? (not sure how you're so certain there will be more than one death each night) My understanding of the rules is that you can only rob one grave each night, and the free action from robbing a grave is for any other action, allowing somebody to rob grave each night and still go about their murdering business, I'll check though:

@MOD: I'm assuming the free action from rob grave is to be used on any other night action, ie you can only rob one grave each night?

Each day/night phase there will be a lynch, and most likely a NK. Hence at least 2 bodies each night, except for the first.

VP Baltar wrote:
Basically. Excuse making at its finest. "Just because we flop positions to fit the changing of the tides doesn't make us scummy because we're a hydra." ffff

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Lost Butterfly

Except that's not really what happened, is it?

The whole paragraph before that quote is also pretty important to the context btw.

Furc 795 - I applaud your effort in posting multiple thoughts in one post. I also enjoyed your misrep about me saying I was too good to answer MoI's question. The biggest thing I'll note is that my plan, however flawed it might be in your eyes, would absolutely guarantee you to not have insanities if you don't. You don't even suggest that it is okay with you for my plan, even though it would completely clear you of what I am accusing you of. Even a Cult Member would say, "go ahead and Book me" if he/she did not have an insanity.

VasudeVa wrote:

MagnaofIllusion wrote:You think I’m not playing aggressively when any number of people have attacked me for being too aggressive regarding Furc? Cool story bro.

It doesn't matter what other people think. What matters is I'm seeing some indications that your Furc-agressiveness may have been faked, and now that Furc's near-unanimously believed to be Town, you're looking for something to do. So you follow on Spy to vote on AV. However, the problem is that lacks the usual MoI Town-aggression I've seen before~. It reeks of buddy distancing, I tellz ya.

Wouldn't the appropriate place for you vote be on the person he is distancing from (AV), since your case hinges on AV being scum?

Lost Butterfly, 799 wrote:Honestly, would people be interested in giant cases from me tomorrow night (I'd saved what I'd written on kunkstar and xvart last night, and there's stuff I'd like to call attention to from other players), or is everyone just overwhelmed by all the wall posting? If it weren't against every fibre of my nature, I'd almost say we should move on with a lynch as quickly as possible just to get a flip and keep the game from stagnating. (If we decide on that route, then I'd direct my attention to players who are being wagoned instead.

I actually thought what you posted was your case; but I would certainly be interested in any more details you might have for the case on me, provided Faraday isn't going to come in on Tuesday and say the opposite.

Lost Butterfly, 799 wrote:

@ xvart and MoI - What do you think of Lost Butterfly? Do their conflicting posts bother you?

You know, I'm debating how much I should defend against this, because I think I'd be more interested in hearing how xvart and MagnaofIllusion answer when they reread.

1

I will say that the questions you should be asking should be:

2

-Does Faraday's 180 on Furcolow OR my consistent defence of Furcolow before and after Faraday's vote have a scum or town motivation? And is either scummy enough to negate the other head's behaviour?

3

-Is it a significant scumtell that Faraday voted before discussing it with me in the QT or waiting for me to wake up?

4

-Is it scummy that Faraday didn't think of how it would look for an account to vote for a player it had just defended before (even if new information had come about)?

5

-Is it scummy that I contradicted him in the thread in order to enforce my own beliefs and/or do damage control?

6

-What scum agenda would be furthered by our switching back and forth like that within a day?

7

-Do you think I've secretly been pretending to be Faraday the whole time so as to fool people?

And maybe Faraday should be the one explaining his own thought patterns and motivations.

But just going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

1

I actually already gave my initial impressions, here.

2

Guided questions are not your friend in this case.

3

If one individual playing under one account were to say "XXX is scum" and "XXX is town" for different reasons it would be called fence sitting; especially during the time that the Fuculow opinions were being thrown out. Just because there are two people on one account is not a free pass and does not excuse having contradictory reads.

4

Is it a significant scumtell? So you agree that it is a scumtell, just not a big one? Also, from everyone else's eyes, this is unprovable (although possibly likely since you two have drastically different timezones); but still, this isn't a solid defense.

5

He should have thought about it, since we had this exact conversation at the end of post game discussion in the game he modded.

6

Yes. The admittance to doing "damage control" is especially scummy. What damage were you controlling and why did it need your immediate attention without consulting with Faraday first.

7

Like I said, fence sitting; which has more scum motivation than town motivation.

As I said in my previous post, I don't think you (Mina) would maliciously game a hydra that way; but with this recent post I'm starting to believe that it was an unexpected byproduct of being a scum hydra in different time zones.

Lost Butterfly, 805 wrote:Except that's not really what happened, is it?

That is exactly what happened: your account flip flopped reads on a lightning rod at the time. I don't think you intended it to occur that way but your defense and guided questions for our consumption and direction is inherently scummy. It's like you got busted for something you don't think you should have been busted for.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

I agree with the town reads on SSBF. I am perfectly happy with him protecting Fate because of this.

SpyreX wrote:Follow me here because I have to be missing something:

Pick 6-7 people to stalk within groups of 2-3 (to prevent wards). Everyone else gets rez kits.

The next night they all take their shots on rez'd targets.

Assuming no one goes murderer, which would be a BAD idea if it went that way, the next day we should have 5-6 at minimum town.

I would prefer not to do this. This seems similar to Adel's plan last game.

ReaperCharlie wrote:I should grave rob because I am awesome and town, and (as I already said) I'm a shining beacon of hope and sanity.

I do believe that you are town, but I would prefer if we had a confirmed town doing it.

totallymafia wrote:Calm down and read the whole paragraph with that sentence again, the sentence is a part of my thought process which I put in quotation marks, it was my thought process when I first read that part in your first post.

I did read the whole paragraph. You don't say anywhere that your thought process changed.

Feysal

Feysal wrote:The blood on the resuscitator unfortunately tells us nothing. Suppose Fate is dead tomorrow, having been killed in the Ritual. If only one player claimed to have used a res kit, this would be meaningless. Benmage might as well have been one of the cultists participating in the Ritual, and got himself bloody that way, or the cult might be trying to frame him. The one player claiming to have used a res kit could be cult or a murderer-in-training, using the chance to earn some pro-town points (not intended as suspicion of SSBF, I'm speaking hypothetically). Even if the one resuscitator was trustworthy, he would not know what type of attack he protected Fate from - was it a Murder, or half of the Greater Ritual?

The way I interprated the rules, if somebody protected Fate from the greater ritual and Benmage didn't try to kill him, Fate and the resuscitator wouldn't get bloody because Fate wasn't actually successfully protected from any of the kills.

Mod: If Player A was chosen to be killed in the Greater Ritual and Player B tried to resuscitate Player A, would Player A and Player B become bloody from Player B protecting Player A from half of the Greater Ritual?

If I am right, then Players A and B being bloody despite Player A being killed by the ritual (in this case, Fate) would indicate that somebody tried to murder him as well.

Feysal wrote:If two players claimed to have protected Fate and he still died, that would still not confirm Benmage. It would appear as though Benmage had to have used Murder, otherwise the Ritual could not have overcome the protections, but either of the two protectors could still be fellow cult, trying to give Benmage an alibi.

Well assuming both the players resuscitating Fate were town, and he died from the ritual, we would know somebody had to have tried to murder him. I am pretty sure SSBF is town, but if he is mafia he is connecting himself to Benmage by lying about his result. I can't see cult going to all the trouble of having 2/3 of their members get an insanity in the greater ritual and having one of their members (who many thought to be town) connecting themself to Benmage such that they would be confirmed cult if Benmage flipped cult. Keep in mind, the only reason they would be going to all this trouble would be to confirm that one of their members is town so they can spend every night robbing graves and providing zero help to their scumteam during the night. I just don't see it happening.

Mod: Can a cultist use corpse dust on the same night that they get it?

If they can, I may need to rethink this, but I still like the plan of one person rezzing Fate.

hitogoroshi

hitogoroshi wrote:Fate
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

That list looks right.

hitogoroshi wrote:Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia

Alright. But, I think that if we go with the Benmage trying to kill Fate plan, Benmage should take the Necrophilia insanity. I also don't think distraction is so bad, but there

are

better ones to take. In addition, I think players that gain insanities

should

look at this list:

Wickedestjr wrote:I think that the best insanities to take would probably be taboo, twitchy, marked, and solist.

hitogoroshi wrote:Whether or not you heard noise
Whether or not you warded, and if so, who?
If you successfully Resuscitated (as in, the target died and you brought them back), and if so, who
Whether or not you gained insanities, and if so, what you chose

Yeah, that seems about right. I think that's how it worked out last game.

I don't like the vote for Lost Butterfly. I think they're town. However, I think that VP Baltar looks townish for trying to start a bandwagon on a player that hasn't been getting much attention.

ReaperCharlie wrote:Also:

@ TNM: LOL! Why would I waste my Res Kit... would it be to prove I'm town? Remember, cult can have Res Kits too.

@ rewq: LOL again! Like I'm gonna let YOU tell me where to use my Res Kit. HAHAHAHA. And on Benmage? LOOOOOL

It would prove that BenMage is town if he murders Fate. Any confirmed non-cult helps town, and by doing so hurts the cult. Do you not want to do something to help town?

xvart wrote:Just a quick check in; didn't get to my reading today.

rewq455, 751 wrote:If you didn't ward, what did you do?

Why do you want to know what Furpants did last night? Why not the other dozen or so people who didn't ward and haven't claimed an action? And why didn't you follow up when he didn't answer?

I'm especially concerned about people that volunteer or jockey to grave rob. It seems like grave robbing would be a bonus for a player going the Murderer route as if they are the only person who robs a grave he/she will get information from grave robbing that will help their agenda (discovering who the other Murderers are). It seems that the added insanities, if wise decisions are made, can effectively be negated by killing their competition more quickly.

VP - I don't like it at all; and I find it frustrating. I've only ever played briefly with Faraday so I'm not really sure how conniving he can be, but Mina does not strike me as a person who would game the system with a hydra and contradictory reads. I need to go back and look at Lost Butterfly to see how those contradictory reads actually affect the game and their stances.

I also want to note that I don't like SSBF's vote on Bowser with the context of his previous observation on Trigalov. I am of the opinion that Trigalov is also guilty of minimal posting and providing content in the flurry and smoke screen of posting and fighting. SSBF notes that Trigalov is coasting and CSL has dropped in activity to melt suspicion (essentially the same outcome for both player slots) but his suspicions of Trigalov has more meat behind it in this post. I do recognize that SSBF has posted suspicion of Bowser earlier, but there is something in his recent post that just doesn't sit right with me and the way it was presented.

xvart.

Sorry, was not paying attention. Everyone who has not claimed their night action yet claim. I will find who those people are later.

Wickedestjr wrote: I don't like the vote for Lost Butterfly. I think they're town. However, I do think that VP Baltar looks townish for trying to start a bandwagon on a player that hasn't been getting much attention.

Couldn't this be scum trying to get attention away from scum?

VP Baltar wrote:

AV wrote:You might think Furc = town was "obvious," but I didn't see you logically proving it to convince others to unvote him.

He claimed a fucking ward and a mod error with that ward AND that he didn't hear noise even though he didn't know the rules had changed regarding ward. Does it really take someone spelling it out before people can get that? I don't think there is anything that could be more obvious than Furc's investigator status and I'm suspicious of the people that were trying their damndest to shovel shit on him because they know they can rile him up and potentially get him mislynched.

So why aren't you questioning the people that didn't unvote UNTIL I had spelt it out? I have spent the last ten or so pages convincing people, who STILL want to believe he stalked or is cult, that he DID actually Ward. You can't call me out on explaining it late in the day when there are still people who DON'T believe he's pro-town.

VP Baltar wrote:Re: posts/pages
My point is that it shouldn't have taken actual town 20 pages to figure out Furc is town. You appear to have explained it before SpyreX, which is fine, but that only makes it slightly better imo. I feel that your first post was definitely meant to test the waters of calling him scummy. Why else would you "offer reasons" for him to be all three alignments without taking a solid stance on his alignment? All of the same evidence has been there from the beginning.

The fact is that those twenty pages took like, what, a day? It's no good commenting on how "long" it took me to comment on it, when it came in what was my proper dedicated catchup post. Sure, if it had taken me a week to make the argument, then fine, go ahead and say I should have known it sooner - but come on, this is a game with a page explosion we're talking about. Not quite the same thing. Or does every thought you have immediately appear in your mind, fully formed, so you don't have to take time to actually think about things and process the possibilities?

totallynotmafia #774 wrote:I'm not sure I understand you, but are you basically saying the grave robber will rob two graves each night and thus have no room for other night actions? (not sure how you're so certain there will be more than one death each night) My understanding of the rules is that you can only rob one grave each night, and the free action from robbing a grave is for any other action

It is not necessary to have two graves to rob every night. Every other night is enough, since Stalk and Murder have to happen on consecutive nights. Also it is in the rules, under Questions and Answers, that Rob Grave can be used multiple times per night.

Triglav #789 wrote:

Furpants_Tom #766 wrote:Re: Feysal's post - are you talking about #504 or #539? I'm not sure I can see the logical inconsistency you're talking about. His position on Furcolow is that the mistake is such an unlikely cult gambit that it virtually confirms his townieness, even if it is logically possible he's scum, right? Where's the red flag?

#539 - look again, makes comment to Seacore saying "Furc is sooooo obv. town, amirite?" immediate next quote responses are agreements with MoI on his points against furc. Reads as defense while straddling lines for later possible shift. Not a fan of it.

Actually, Furpants_Tom has it right. I was defending Furcolow at the time, and that meant responding to the points brought against him by MoI. I read the first point as Furcolow making other posts while avoiding to answer who he warded, and I had to check to see this wasn't the case. I'd misunderstood what MoI was saying, and so I found the point inconclusive. The second point where Furcolow defended himself with timing was just silly, and of course I agreed when MoI called it comedy gold, but I still did not think it meant anything. For the record, I firmly believe Furcolow to be an Investigator, and though there exists a possibility of him having murderous plans, I find it remote.

ReaperCharlie #792 wrote:I do have a question for you, though: What would you think if you rezzed Fate tonight, but Benmage was dead by morning?

Benmage won't be dead by morning. He heard no noise, and thus cannot be killed. If he died, he'd have lied about the noise.

Furcolow #795 wrote:

SCUMSLIP

"you are town play is good Baltar"? Fatescum.
Maybe benmage was right and we should just lynch him(fate!)

You haven't made much sense before, but seriously, suspecting someone because of an obvious grammar mistake? Really.

As for xvart, I'll have to do an ISO on him to see if there's any basis for these suspicions I've seen on him.

Lost Butterfly #799 wrote:Feysal, I agree with your last paragraph that the best idea is for Benmage just not to kill (but SSBF to resurrect Fate just in case Ben decides to be an idiot), but what was the point of writing yet

another

giant wall post with no suspects, but lots more "protown" looking theory?

My best strength is in game mechanics, and so I took a moment to analyze the whole Benmage/Fate situation and posted about it. That was all there was to it. As for actual scum hunting, I admit I've been lacking there. I've only had time for one read-through, and while I did get some reads from it, I really need to do an ISO on a few people to sort out my thoughts regarding them. You can expect to hear my thoughts on Seacore, Baby Spice and xvart in a few hours, once I read through their posts again.

Your initial impressions didn't really say a lot though, hence the clarification questions, it basically came down to you not being sure and needing to check. Incidentally:

I need to go back and look at Lost Butterfly to see how those contradictory reads actually affect the game and their stances.

Have you done this?

Saying we're fence-sitting doesn't really seem accurate either, since the position was pretty clear, then changed. Flip flopped, definitely but hardly fence sitting.

I don't understand why you see guiding the questions as inherently scummy, yet go on to answer them anyway either.

xvart wrote:

Lost Butterfly, 805 wrote:Except that's not really what happened, is it?

That is exactly what happened: your account flip flopped reads on a lightning rod at the time. I don't think you intended it to occur that way but your defense and guided questions for our consumption and direction is inherently scummy. It's like you got busted for something you don't think you should have been busted for.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

Except, the 'tide changing' bit is pretty obviously false, so no.


Has Zach posted for the tribolite hydra yet?

Oh and yeah, V/la untill tueaday as Mina said.

Triglav, 558 wrote:3. First off - clearly had opinion on xvart since voted for him. Maybe you don't agree, but please do not ignore Triglav's opinion by suggesting we have made none. Will note that opinion is still held since his response seemed untownish as it was an immediate turnaround backhand scum accusation assault on Triglav yet no vote on Triglav. Need to double check who he is voting, if anyone, but if xvart feels Triglav's vote is obvious sidelining of vote then xvart should feel comfortable voting for Triglav at this stage. Lack of vote is odd. He hasn't seemed to give opinions on anything else much so, yes.

Your initial vote on me had terrible justifications. Like I said, the list was going to be made, there is no doubt about that, so you voted for something that was not a scumtell. It's not a towntell, either; but the fact that you don't assert with any sort of backup that I was going crazy to be the first person to post the list in an attempt to look town by being helpful or that I needed crazy town points because of evidence A, B, and C does not help your case. As for the "immediate turnaround backhand scum accusations assault"... don't you think that is sensationalizing what I said, just a little bit? Your vote was an easy one, but poorly justified and executed.

Triglav, 765 wrote:Agree with whoever said push on furc was probably scum generated.
Consider two oddest furc commentors to be Seacore (oddly insistent in spite of really solid furctown case) and Feysal (had huge wall post where Triglav could swear he was talking out of both sides of mouth at once, had to re-read to see if we could even understand what stance he was taking)

I find it strange that you did not include me on your "oddest furc commentors" since you have a vote on me and I have been one of the biggest "lynch Furcolow" commentors even after everyone else had moved on.

Triglav, 765 wrote:Mina/Faraday "oops, we cross-posted hydra lol" thing seems very honest and is, at worst, null as town/scum would never want to do that anyway. This head fully appreciates the foibles of dealing with hydra and is unimpressed by the heat for this aspect of their play.

While I'm sure you appreciate the foibles of dealing with hydra, you have yet to come across the same dilemma. Maybe it is because you have only posted three times, but are alluding that you might make contradictory reads in the future? I don't understand the basis for this comment, considering both player slots in totality of content presented.

xvart.

(, Plum, ReaperCharlie, , AurorusVox)
(SpyreX, MagnaofIllusion, Fate)
(Triglav, Furcolow, Lost Butterfly)
(Benmage, Wickedestjr, hitorogoshi)
(, VP Baltar, xvart)
(Trilobite, VasudeVa)
(Baby Spice)
(, Super Smash Bros. Fan)
(manho)
(Andrius)
(Furpants_Tom)
(totallynotmafia)

Not Voting - 6 (Bowser, El Goosuki, Feysal, kunkstar7, , rewq455, Seacore, , )

Wickedestjr wrote:

Mod: Can a player choose Cower, Launder, Ward, or Rob Grave for the taboo insanity?

Feysal wrote:

@MOD: Does the target of a failed kill still receive notification whether he was targeted by Murder or the Ritual? Will he know if he was targeted by both? (Provided of course that he survives.)

totallynotmafia wrote:

@MOD: I'm assuming the free action from rob grave is to be used on any other night action, ie you can only rob one grave each night?

Wickedestjr wrote:

Mod: If Player A was chosen to be killed in the Greater Ritual and Player B tried to resuscitate Player A, would Player A and Player B become bloody from Player B protecting Player A from half of the Greater Ritual?

Lost Butterfly, 812 wrote:

I need to go back and look at Lost Butterfly to see how those contradictory reads actually affect the game and their stances.

Have you done this?

I'm in the middle of it, but Mina's response was enough to warrant my immediate vote.

Lost Butterfly, 812 wrote:Saying we're fence-sitting doesn't really seem accurate either, since the position was pretty clear, then changed. Flip flopped, definitely but hardly fence sitting.

You are right, in the direct context of that; but, unless someone explicitly posts "we are both in agreement now on this" it can easily be abused by saying, once again, that "the other head thought that" so the door is still open to flip flopping back, so more of an implied fence sitting.

Lost Butterfly, 812 wrote:I don't understand why you see guiding the questions as inherently scummy, yet go on to answer them anyway either.

It is scummy anytime someone guides thought processes about their own level of suspicion, especially when most of those things are unprovable. And I didn't so much answer the questions, but respond to them and why they were scummy or contributed to my suspicion.

Lost Butterfly, 812 wrote:Has Zach posted for the tribolite hydra yet?

Relevance?

xvart.

I'd like to line up lynches from whoever has the highest word count in this game, to whoever has the least.

Also, we're not lynching Seacore, because Seacore is seven shades of awesome.

However, I would be willing to lynch the guy with the lemon avatar, because I hate yellow, and that's a lot of yellow.

-DGB

Yellow reads does irritate me.

VOTE: AurorusVox

I meant, "really does" irritate me.

El Goosuki wrote:I'd like to line up lynches from whoever has the highest word count in this game, to whoever has the least.

Unfortunately that puts our basically confirmed Investigator Furcolow right at the top of the list

AV wrote:So why aren't you questioning the people that didn't unvote UNTIL I had spelt it out? I have spent the last ten or so pages convincing people, who STILL want to believe he stalked or is cult, that he DID actually Ward. You can't call me out on explaining it late in the day when there are still people who DON'T believe he's pro-town.

Oh trust me, I don't like those people either. I stated in my post that people who keep pushing it, such as Baby Spice, are incredibly scummy. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be pressuring you as well. How else am I going to be sure of your alignment.

AV wrote:The fact is that those twenty pages took like, what, a day? It's no good commenting on how "long" it took me to comment on it, when it came in what was my proper dedicated catchup post. Sure, if it had taken me a week to make the argument, then fine, go ahead and say I should have known it sooner - but come on, this is a game with a page explosion we're talking about. Not quite the same thing. Or does every thought you have immediately appear in your mind, fully formed, so you don't have to take time to actually think about things and process the possibilities?

Alright, that's a fair enough point. Obviously it has taken me longer to catch up than others, so there is probably time dilation that I should be taking in to account.

LB wrote:Except that's not really what happened, is it?

So, you're saying I should just take your word for it? Especially after both of you saw how Macavity Lock and I used a fabricated disagreement in aCoK to build momentum as we needed? I'm sorry if I'm slightly skeptical. I went back to reread the post game of aCoK to see if I could catch either of you commenting on that, but I don't think either of you did directly. So let me ask you now, you don't see how it could be perceived as scummy for a hydra to pull a complete 180 on previous statements simply because 'people aren't going to agree 100% of the time'? Having seen me do it as a scum hydra in that game, do you think it's an ineffective tool for the scum to use?

Wickedstjr wrote:I would prefer not to do this. This seems similar to Adel's plan last game.

That's what I was thinking too. I was planning to read back over that whole exchange in SAII at some point because I don't remember specifically why it was fail, but I remember it was. Do you recall why? (might save me the trouble of reading even more SA pages)

Also, can you spell out the Benmage killing Fate plan for me? I think I missed the particulars of it in trying to read so fast last night. I get that an attempted murder proves him not-cult, but I think I'm missing how SSBF ties in to everything.

rewq wrote:Couldn't this be scum trying to get attention away from scum?

Is this what you believe? If so, I'd like to know what hypo-scum you think I'm trying to draw attention away from.

Feysal wrote:It is not necessary to have two graves to rob every night. Every other night is enough, since Stalk and Murder have to happen on consecutive nights. Also it is in the rules, under Questions and Answers, that Rob Grave can be used multiple times per night.

This is true and basically what we did in SAII. Once you know the killing patterns of the murderers (which should be completely revealed by N4 at the latest), you can use grave rob to stop their cycles accordingly, thus making them waste a night. That being said, I think you guys keep ignoring the change to the Ward mechanic and how that throws a wrench in the grave rob as roleblock plan. There is a lot of WIFOM involved now.

xvart wrote:While I'm sure you appreciate the foibles of dealing with hydra, you have yet to come across the same dilemma. Maybe it is because you have only posted three times, but are alluding that you might make contradictory reads in the future? I don't understand the basis for this comment, considering both player slots in totality of content presented.

+1

Glad to at least see a little turnaround in xvart's play. Should make him easier to read.

xvart wrote:

LB wrote: Has Zach posted for the tribolite hydra yet?

Relevance?

I can see where they are going with it. It's a null-point.

@LB - do you really feel that there was no shifting momentum toward Furcolow at that time when he shifted to the leading wagon within the next few pages after your vote? I think Faraday was egging him on in his responses and that led to a lot of votes on him at a crucial time. I'm going to read over the entire exchange again, but that's how I felt on my initial read.

finished page 10 now, but i need sleep. will continue the read tomorrow.

Lost Butterfly wrote:Triglav's still scum btw. A multi hydra head (at least 3 it seems ) with only 2 posts at this stage is unacceptable. The fact their first post contained a vote on xvart for a really poor reason 'lol you made a list' is also really bad.

This presumption is based on a concept that all the heads read and post indepednantly in order to generate more posts then a regular account.
We tend to get together in a QT to share thoughts in order to avoid too many "lol different head different opinion lol" posts.
Slows us down.
Your case on us is lurking and disagreement with xvart post - consider the first (especially with volume of this game) null, and the second we see as us being brilliant and certainly can't understand how suspecting xvart suggests we're scummy - care to enlighten?

Hmmm, apparently xvart is on the 'furcolow=scum' wagon too.
This confirms with presupposed conclusions Triglav has already mentioned.

kunkstar shooting up odd super rez Fate plan looks like good town from a couple of angles.
Not sure we understand the AV=scum push. There's a case there?

Am on page 28.
Intend to finish read today.
No 10 page explosions allowed or will break above promise.
Must take break now as eyes have begun to leak a reddish fluid and we suspect that's not healthy.