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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:38 pm
by the director
Majiffy wrote:
the director wrote:Also his "flow chart" business seems to have been swept under the rug with little to no explanation.

?


For a good portion of D2 you have been a parrot screaming "flow chart!" over and over. And then that seems to have gone away.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:38 pm
by pirate mollie
the director wrote:
Majiffy wrote:Thanks for reminding me how scummy you are, LS. Those posts are gold mines of bussing.


LS you probably should answer this cause Majiffy knows a thing or two about bussing. Also his "flow chart" business seems to have been swept under the rug with little to no explanation.

Pirate - for now I'm going to respect you keeping your cards close to the chest about your pet theory, but eventually you are going to need to reveal it. Maybe a teaser?


This game has become stagnated again ... I might have to *gulp* effort post again. Every time I shake the tree the same few names fall out, and I'm at the point I don't care which of those names is flipped.


*le sigh*

I am not keeping anything close to my chest. I have pretty much laid out my thoughts. on this very page. I think fe fucked up with his town list and his panic afterwards shows it. it is the very same thing that you responded to so in my eyes we are either both being retarded town or we are onto something.

what is throwing me for a loop is that maenara is a pretty good player IMO. this is shit play for her. she never came under fire in the newbie game we played together but she did in myko's game. I want to see more of her not less.

@ majiffy I believe I asked you a question.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:44 pm
by Majiffy
the director wrote:For a good portion of D2 you have been a parrot screaming "flow chart!" over and over. And then that seems to have gone away.

It'll come back around eventually, when the mood strikes.

pirate mollie wrote:@ majiffy I believe I asked you a question.

Usually people will quote or re-state the question if it was missed. :wink:

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:56 pm
by penguin_alien
@Nachomamma8, upon thinking about it, I originally posted just thinking about how Kmd4390's analysis seemed to have confirmation bias in line with his previous posts, which was what reduced its utility to me. In considering it now, if Kmd4390 was scum making these arguments, I'd expect to have fewer targets spit out, given that there are two scum left and he generates four suspects. If he is scum, his leaving pirate mollie as a town read after pointing out why by his own logic she shouldn't be makes me think they could be the rest of the team. I suspect that if Kmd4390 were scum too, he wouldn't go through quite so much PbPA for all of this, preferring more nebulous cases he could back out of or tear down after the fact. So I'm going to have to go with his analysis displaying confirmation bias from a town perspective, and his refusal to backtrack on his read of pirate mollie follows if he's feeling overwhelmed by the number of 'scum targets' he's dug up in those posts and doesn't want to seem uncommitted under pressure. It's also consistent with his pushing his read on Fizz last phase in the face of the Fe wagon, i.e. not inclined to change his mind when he has a read.

Actually upon further reflection, my main problem with his analysis posts would be his take on pirate mollie. There are a lot of scummy ways to interpret that, from buddying to WIFOM if he flips scum to soft-bussing a partner.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:35 pm
by the director
pirate mollie wrote:
*le sigh*

I am not keeping anything close to my chest. I have pretty much laid out my thoughts. on this very page. I think fe fucked up with his town list and his panic afterwards shows it. it is the very same thing that you responded to so in my eyes we are either both being retarded town or we are onto something.

what is throwing me for a loop is that maenara is a pretty good player IMO. this is shit play for her. she never came under fire in the newbie game we played together but she did in myko's game. I want to see more of her not less.


So you like to mix super retarded posts with serious posts in order to get reads. Dammit woman, I kind of want to lynch you. Also never say "le" again, unless you are on /r/circlejerk.

Majiffy - if you and your scum ilk win this game, it is because the laziness of the town is approaching 9/11 levels of disaster. Your flow chart business was pure BS, but apparently you have charmed the idiots to follow you like sheep. I mean it is pretty clear, your first scum read (KMD) stagnated so you then drove the mindless to the second (Maen whatever the eff), so now you are fishing for a third. I suggest LS, because in no way have you not telegraphed that future move.

This game makes me question my faith in humanity.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 pm
by Majiffy
But I'm not scum :(

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:45 pm
by the director
Majiffy wrote:But I'm not scum :(


A truce lynch is Nacho, FYI.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:47 pm
by Majiffy
Why is Nacho scum?

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 pm
by the director
Majiffy wrote:Why is Nacho scum?


The hammer, mostly.

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:03 pm
by pirate mollie
the director wrote:
This game makes me question my faith in humanity.


your face is making me question my faith in humanity.

no seriously we are either both retarded town or we should be doing a hard reset. problem is that I have not been given an answer why we should do that.

what do you think of maenara

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:48 pm
by Nachomamma8
pirate mollie wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
pirate mollie wrote:what would this have to do with a nk choice?

You can leave town leaders alive if they are leading the town off a cliff.


but majiffy caught scum on d1 and today you are sheeping him so

catching d1 doesn't mean you're going to catch scum d2.
i've had a game where i executed scum d1 then was kept alive to lead the rest of the town to fucktard land.

the director is hilariously town, living in his conspiracy world

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:12 am
by borkjerfkin
director and mollie are town as shit, and I have fuck reads on most everyone else. I guess penguin can be town. Nacho's play is way different today than it was yesterday (it's better today), but I'm hesitant to say that makes him town. NS probably needs to be policy lynched at some point.

#691 is about the only thing that's keeping me off the Maenara wagon. I don't expect that response from scum.

UNVOTE:

I'm not comfortable with any of my scum reads right now, and I need to devote more time to this game.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:48 am
by Lastsurvivor
the director wrote:
Majiffy wrote:Thanks for reminding me how scummy you are, LS. Those posts are gold mines of bussing.


Lastsurvivor wrote:So I'm scum because I POSSIBLY could have bussed Fe? That's a bullshit tell.


I stand by that statement unless anyone wants to explain how pushing for someone's lynch based solely off of an accusation of bussing is valid.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:46 pm
by Majiffy
It's called associative tells. And we have a scum flip.

Congratulations! Scumhunting 101!

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:33 pm
by the director
pirate mollie wrote:
what do you think of maenara


See below.

Maenara wrote:I'm being voted for gut and for twisting KMD's words to put him on the spot. The latter is not a lie, I did do that (Though I didn't make him out to have said something he hadn't), and the former has that lovely property of being totally unaccountable.

Of course, there's likely to be some scum on me, but I strongly doubt both are there. After all, why not gain town-cred by not being on the wrong wagon?


This whole post is pretty terrible, actually.

She says she was voting on gut but she was calling for KMD's head. Usually when one gut votes, they aren't looking for a hammer but more reads on a person they for some reason they find suspicion on to either prove or disprove said gut. Calling for a hammer is nearly on the same level of actually hammering, and who the hell would hammer with the reasoning "it was gut?"

Second paragraph reads like a speech at a trial. "Friends, family, fellow mafiascum players, if I am killed for crimes that I did not commit ... I want you to find those who are responsible. Please look on my wagon for one, and off my wagon for the second. Because surely [dramatic pause] ... one of them is not on my wagon." In other words, AtE.

----------

Actually as an aside, Maenara, why didn't you stick with your KMD "LETS FREAKING HAMMER THIS KID" if it was a genuine read? He has posted quite a bit since you called for his head, but you stopped responding and analyzing what he was saying. It seems like you were more concerned that your KMD wagon push was making you look scummy and went into spin mode rather than do what a town would do, which would be continuing to push a scum read.

----------

That being said, I did read KMD's two walls, and it actually contains a lot of good analysis, especially where Fe calls Maenara's former slot (Aether) scum, which KMD indicates that Maenara might actually be town, and that is a powerful argument. Will post reactions to those two walls shortly.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:01 pm
by Maenara
I've stopped commenting on KMD because that got a bit too muddled, and I need to clear my mind on him first. I haven't stopped reading what he says. As for Mollie, she just isn't behaving the way she usually does.

Also, get your abbreviations in order. How is saying that 1/1 is likelier than 2/0 on a mislynch an appeal to emotion?

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:31 pm
by the director
Maenara wrote:I've stopped commenting on KMD because that got a bit too muddled, and I need to clear my mind on him first. I haven't stopped reading what he says. As for Mollie, she just isn't behaving the way she usually does.

Also, get your abbreviations in order. How is saying that 1/1 is likelier than 2/0 on a mislynch an appeal to emotion?


- meta reads are weak and mostly useless. Most players change their style from game to game no matter what alignment they are.
- I'll explain using your second paragraph as an example, since at least there you finally came out and said it. The use of the word "mislynch" is an appeal to emotion, to spark fear in those on your wagon and considering to vote you that they are about to assist in killing a town. In the first example, the idea that you were a "mislynch" was heavily implied.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:40 pm
by pirate mollie
Nachomamma8 wrote:
pirate mollie wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
pirate mollie wrote:what would this have to do with a nk choice?

You can leave town leaders alive if they are leading the town off a cliff.


but majiffy caught scum on d1 and today you are sheeping him so

catching d1 doesn't mean you're going to catch scum d2
.
i've had a game where i executed scum d1 then was kept alive to lead the rest of the town to fucktard land.

the director is hilariously town, living in his conspiracy world


obviously not, but scum can only know that in hindsight.

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:28 pm
by the director
VOTE: Lastsurvivor

Based on KMD's walls and my very painfully long "this feels like homework" analysis of his posts, the following are cleared town:

The fizz slot
Majiffy
Breakfast slot
Mae
bork
pirate

You better reconsider your play style, Mae, because your town cred was due to literally nothing what you said (it was due to the fact to the dude you replaced literally a month ago did nothing). In fact, your poor play was so anti town I was kinda considering pushing your lynch just to send a message that if you suck epic sausage, you are going to be nailed no matter what alignment.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:31 am
by Maenara
Considered wall-post.

Decided not to.

Considered Majiffy/Director team.

Decided this was too silly.

Re-read KMD's longposts.

Decided that own reads suck.

TL;DR: Will mull further & sheep KMD.

VOTE: UCT

Is good scumblock.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:32 am
by penguin_alien
Why is pirate mollie town based on Kmd4390's analysis? He points out pirate mollie doing something he's condemned others for but allowed it to pass in that case due to thinking that pirate mollie's other play was good, not in the same vein as the other players in question at all.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:33 am
by Maenara
Just for the sake of argument, this was what I'd written when I realized that I was a :cool: n idiot, and heading down the wrong track:

Spoiler: Wall of Crud
...

Okay, listen here, chucklenuts. If anybody is going to tell me I suck, it'd better be my own damn self, or at least some other person not currently riding the express train to Crazy Town.

You want changed playstyle? You'll have your fucking changed playstyle.

Let's take your problems with my previous post first, shall we? "An appeal to emotion", you call it, because I dare speculate upon the scum distribution on my wagon. Because I, in my own words, call it a mislynch. Well, champ, there's a wee fucking problem with that; namely, the fact that
any
conscientious townie would call the wagon on them a mislynch, because that's what it'd bloody be, by merit of them not being scum! "Aha," you might then say, "But how can we know that you're town?" Well, dearie, you can't. For now. But chances are, or at least were, that I might end up hammered anyhow, and if that were to be the case, I figured that perhaps I'd get a few thoughts jotted down before one such event took place, as you'd then, later, know for a fact that these opinions did not, in fact, originate with any person playing as scum - I'd be dead, but I'd also be a confirmed townie, so you'd have that to work with.

Elementary? I dare say, yes.

Now, on to the actual game itself. Let us start with the person whom I am currently voting, shall we? Pirate Mollie, yes:

I thought, at least initially, that she'd be town, if only due to her absolutely ridiculous reaction to the "Daykill", but I have seen almost no investigative scumhunting from her side. "How do you think this person looks?", "I think that so and so", "IMO this is that" and so on, and so forth. There is no substance to her posts, no proper arguments, no solid positions she's taking. It feels as if she's doing her outmost to stay on everyone's good side, which is just not what town ought to. She's reacting to others, yes, but where is her own initiative? Look at her ISO, just skim it if nothing else, and consider what I said.

But fine. If y'all think she's stupidly town, so be it. At the moment, I'm trying to find arguments for anyone being scum, and conversely, for why they're not - Town constantly goes bugfuck insane by focusing on one person, and being unable to ignore them until they're dead. That's good, if they're scum, but more often than not, they aren't. So let us say Mollie is town, then, for now. And let us look at others.

KMD, I believe, has already been covered, so I'll ignore him for now. Nobody Special is hard to say much about, as he hasn't said much himself. I would leave him be for now, and hold him accountable tomorrow instead, for I reckon that will prove far more beneficial. Fe is dead, and hardly merits much comment, and thus we come to you.

You haven't been too consistent, lately. [This is when I tried to find arguments that supported this, found none, decided to shut up and multiply]

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:35 am
by Maenara
Maenara wrote:when I realized that I was a :cool: n idiot,[/spoiler]


I do not know where that smiley comes from. I did not put it there.

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:56 am
by penguin_alien
Who are you talking about at the end there, WRT not being consistent? The rest makes sense I guess, but I'm not sure why you'd abandon your read on pirate mollie so easily. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really buy this talk that only scum pay attention to the set-up and so town would think there was a dayvig running around more than scum. I'm relatively new here, but I thought the whole point of the Open Games subforum was to play in situations where you know the set-up in advance precisely. And if you think pirate mollie is scum, what are the persuasive arguments made by others that are making you concede your read? Kmd4390's incredibly weak argument at the end of his wall?

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:01 am
by the director
@Mae - That was a pretty epic wall of crud. Glad to have you back in the game.

Also, there is no such thing as a mislynch, its a made up word. If a town gets lynched it is their own damn fault for not playing better.

I laughed at your express train to Crazy Town, first because I love using the phrase crazytown myself, but also because this crazytown gets results. It isn't personal, I just need to get under people's skin to see what comes out.

@penguin - unless pirate was superduper long-bussing Fe, she wouldn't have called out her buddy for jumping on the Aether wagon, especially giving the context of the game at that point in time. Same goes for Bork.