Mafiascum.net

Everyone,

I'm really sorry to have to do this. I didn't want to. I wanted to get back into this game properly. But there has been a terrible tragedy in my partner's family and I have to be there for him. I love him and it tears me apart to see something like this happen to him. There's no way I could even make an attempt to scumhunt in this state. I wish I could keep playing, I really do, but my heart is just not in it and I do not have the time or energy to maintain my commitment to this game.

I'm actually really sorry to just bail out like this.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:

↑ Iecerint wrote:Chkflp probably would've been my pick if he were still alive due to his having hammered D1 to unlynch Pere, but he's not. My two main gut scum reads of players still alive are RestFermata and HumanDestroyer (latter is mostly relational). Town on VP/Nacho/levi/FT, null on EmpKing.

HumanDestroyer gets townpoints for voting PereV out of the gate after someone else had already voted me going into D2. RestFermata was in favor of the PereV wagon prior to being opposed to it and then voting MsMarangal.

Vote: RestFermata

Give me more than gut reads, please. I don't care about reads that are completely intuition at this point.

I did give you more than gut reads. I started with gut reads to determine who to look into, and then I looked into them to decide who was scum and who wasn't.

Iece, why do you think Nacho and Levi are town?

All my town reads are semi-rational "gut" reads.

Levi is town for the same reason he was town D1. I think his earnestness is hard to fake as scum.

Nacho is town because his center-of-things-ness leans town IMO. I think that's the source of my read in his case.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:Levi, why is HD scum and Iece town?

Iecerant seems like skillful time play while human seems like nothing is out of the ordinary and that kind of bugs me a little coming from a town position.

Hi ThAd. Good to see you again. Been busy the last few days guys, but I will have content for you soon.

Hello all!

Will just read up. 33 pages should take me a couple of hours and I may not finish tonight, but I have tomorrow off so a post will be up then at the latest.

(Just as a side note I'm a huge fan of dark souls, so I'm super excited to be replacing in!)

ok so here are some thoughts as I read through:

- leviathan seems town based on posts like these:

↑ leviathan93 wrote:again. you people are incredibly stupid. READ MY FUCKING META AND LEARN IT BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME!

↑ leviathan93 wrote:town will lose this game because no one wants to do the work it takes!!

Hard to fake that level of frustration.

Is nacho truly being super friendly due to his helpful nature in 86/88 or is he currying favour? Will come back to this if anything else stands out.
(edit: rest pretty much sums up my thoughts here in 113) (double edit: hey, thats me!)

Nacho's 123 seems pretty good though. I don't really see why he thinks rest/me is scum, when he admits to buddying.

Fourtrouble's posts rub me the wrong way. He's asking questions and shit, but not really acting on them and such. Like he's trying to look active without actually hunting scum.

I actually agree with DDD that vpbaltar's reaction test was overrated (see 146/147). Yes tiger did turn out to be town, but it was pretty clear to me that was a fake daykill. If I was scum I would have reacted in exactly the same "gg, I'm town" way. Vp trying to imply he was also town by association is bad in my eyes.

Human destroyer going after empking for some reason. Easy target? I know emp is hard to read but so far he seems to be playing his usual game. If you want to lynch him for policy reasons that's one thing, but because he was wagon-jumping? Not so much.

↑ VP Baltar wrote:levi vs. restfermata seems like a town on town dispute to me. There is a ton of misunderstanding there that doesn´t really seem forced in any way, just like two noobs arguing.

Iec´s vote is :S and makes me question our whole relationship.

I think Peregrine is intentionally not posting and needs to die. So much so, I´ll vote him if DDD plunks a vote down there. Ball is in your court homey.

I get townie vibes from Empking and Nacho, but nothing too firm there yet.

This is good from vp. Obv I know rest/me is town, and I strongly think levi is town so I think he nailed the first part.
I like how he is not blindly keeping the buddy status with Ice, I feel scum would have tried to keep something like that going (espec. if ice is town)
Calls out scum peregrine which is the first time anyone mentioned him in a negative light, so this is also good.

Human destroyer does what he accuses empking of doing, and jumps on the rest wagon. He's firming as my no.1 scum pick so far.

If hd isnt scum fourtrouble would be my pick. subtly defends pere in 216 and pushes hd instead. I doubt they would be scum together, but right now I think at least one of them is.

Something to note is that jason was killed night 1. Now night kill analysis is sort of out of favour right now, which means scum feel free to kill whoever they want, particularly the people who are suspicious of them. Therefore night kill analysis is actually sort of useful in the current meta. Jason obviously went pretty hard after pere and so that is most likely the reason he was killed, although there were certain other people that were pushing pere as well. His only other real suspect that he mentioned early was fourtrouble though.

↑ PeregrineV wrote:

↑ PeregrineV wrote:

↑ tigerzone wrote:as of right now the only people i'll be happy to lynch today are empking and iecerint.

Only saves on my list are Ice, Levi and Jason.

Meh. Add Rest to that.

Vote: SaintKerrigan

↑ PeregrineV wrote:And tiger still more on the town side from early posting.

I realise this will be packed with wifom but scumerine lists the following players as "saves":
ice, levi, jason, rest, tiger.
Of that list jason and tiger flipped town, I know I am town, and I am pretty sure levi is town. Would peregrine have listed only town as people on his save list? Experience and gut tells me he would have slipped in a scum member as well, which basically leaves ice. It's not damming evidence by any means but I'm going to keep a closer eye on ice.

Ok up to page 11. sleepy now...

Back to the read...

hd's jump on to pere was right after nach voted for him, and put him in the lead spot for the lynch. Could be one of those situations where hd felt the tipping point had been hit and wanted to get on to look like he wasn't just distancing himself from pere, but was genuinely going for his lynch.

↑ VP Baltar wrote:Iecerint and Pv for scum team 2013. Calling that shit now.

Interesting call. does he follow up on this?

↑ leviathan93 wrote:

↑ PeregrineV wrote:

↑ jasonT1981 wrote:define 'named ability'

It's an active ability with a name, but it's basically "You can vote."

I believe Peregrine's claim. It seems legit. and i highly doubt he would be scum faking to know so much now. i will not be hammering.

and have Peregrine as confirmed town number 1.

Lol

Oh you!

↑ Human Destroyer wrote:

↑ Empking wrote:

Vote: SK

- L-2

First wagon jump

↑ Empking wrote:

Unvote
Vote: lev

His wself-vote was a ploy; a ploy of the scum variety.

Second wagon jump

↑ Empking wrote:

Vote; Iece

Third wagon jump

NOTABLY SKIPS PV WAGON

Empking wrote:

Unvote, Vote: TOWK

Fourth wagon jump

I thought I'd highlight this post because hd links empking to pv he had flipped and was confirmed as scum. Almost as if he knew pv was scum...
(basically I'm saying hd is pv's scumpartner)

Also if hd is scum empking is town.

↑ Iecerint wrote:

↑ RestFermata wrote:

Vote: SaintKerrigan

Obv not hollow

.

↑ RestFermata wrote:That's the whole point of the flavor...that the town are the "enemies" in the video game while

the scum are the "heroes" of the game

. I think jason is town, though, based on the kinds of questions he was asking PV.

Bold added. These kind of upset my apple cart, especially the second one. Scum being the heroes is not obvious to me.

It's true that the OP can be read that way (now that I look back at it), but that's not the conclusion I came to upon skimming through it originally, certainly not as an obv thing, and my PM doesn't offer any clarification (even after looking back at it).

Am I missing somewhere else where this is made obvious, or what?

It is pretty clear to me, especially in post 3 where sotty writes:

↑ Sotty7 wrote:Can you work together to out The Chosen Undead?

Chosen undead was the "hero" of the game, and the character you play in it.

Vp baltar continues to hound pv (scum) in the face of growing support for a twok (town) wagon. Hard to see scum doing that. Although hd is sort of doing it as well which throws me read on him a bit.

↑ PeregrineV wrote:

↑ Iecerint wrote:It's true that we should lynch VT claims from a theory perspective (for the same reason that everyone shouldn't massclaim at the start of D1), though I've never actually made that argument in my life except as scum, SOOOO.

+1

I'm becoming more convinced Ice is indeed pere's partner. But it almost seems too obvious.
I'm interested to see why ice wasn't lynched day 2 after pere flipped tbh.

↑ leviathan93 wrote:Ok. So I understand your point. but there is also the fact that scum pushed the wagon quickly on Peregrine and the he was saved by town for believing him when he claimed. i don't usually believe people when they claim but this situation i do.

plus we can always lynch him tomorrow if we lynch wrong today either way 1 scum is going to be alive to kill someone during the night. and if he happens to be town if we lynch him today then we are just as screwed if we lynched him tomorrow and he was town.

but if we lynch wrong today and lynch him tomorrow that would be easy to detect if he is scum or not. in my personal opinion.

Yeah levi is town. This post is so ridiculously wrong it could only come from the mouth of (semi-vi) town.

Interestingly when pere comes back in to the game around page 20 with high levels of activity he defends himself against vp and ddd, but not against hd...

Ok enough for now. More later. Up to page 23

↑ Empking wrote:That's an Encryptor isn't it?

mmm.

thad's catch up posts bring no incredible revelations, but will keep reading them

Back to the read:

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:sorry VP, I really am.
i still don't think peregrine is scum. he's been active lurking, but the fact that he's been continuously willing to dance with you while the TOWK slot has been opportunistic as all hell and trying to secure a lynch either way solidifies my vote and i just can't lynch PV in good conscience.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:PEREGRINE FUCKING VOTE THE COUNTERWAGON

Would a scum so obviously defend another scum? unlikely.

↑ leviathan93 wrote:why would there be three scum? i have never heard of that.

I don't think I've ever seen a more obvtown player. I mean he be faking it (if so well played), but I seriously, doubt it.

Oh wow. For some reason I thought pere was lynched day 1, but I guess he was lynched day 2. I read the first post and everything so I don't know how I missed that. I tend to agree with vp that the scum must have acted in some way to "save" pere, either just by shifting votes or by actively pushing another target. Obviously nacho looks bad because of this, but similarly to the interactions pere had with ice it almost seems too obvious. That's a wifom trap I don't want to go down though. Fact is nacho saved a scum and helped lynch a town, and that is bad.

Other people on the mm wagon were: levi (obvtown), ice (scum possibility), emp (no idea as per usual), pere (scum), rest (myself, town), chkflip (town).
In my opinion there is little to no chance pere was the only scum on the wagon. Therefore there is at least another scum out of nacho, ice, emp. Levi isn't 100% confirmed but he basically is in my eyes.

↑ Iecerint wrote:It's pretty weird that they killed someone who had claimed VT. Let's see....

↑ Iecerint wrote:Well, PereV makes a certain amount of sense with Jason dead, I guess. The only other names that pop up are FT and DDD.

Vote: PereV

Also, I think there's a strong chance that one of the leaders is scum -- there's no other way to justify scum NKing VT when strong, unclaimed players are roving about, especially when there'd be more than one obvious, strong, gravitas player still around.

And that makes me think that PereV might be more likely to be town again...

Meh. I'll keep it simple.

Forced question about night kill choice?
Votes pere but still soft defends him?
Ice is firming as pere's partner.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:

↑ chkflip wrote:Why aren't one of DDD/VP dead right now if they were so fucking right?

WHY ARE YOU ASSUMING SCUM SHOT JASON

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:he didn't seem like a good vig shot, but I could see him getting shot by a vig
scum shooting him would be laughable.

I know this is similar to what ice was saying before but it strikes me as more genuine. Nacho and Ice are probably my 2 picks for partners right now, with hd lagging behind in third, but I have ice as way out in front of nacho. I feel there is more stuff that makes me question nacho as scum than ice.

My natural paranoia is creeping in here regarding vp baltar. Now don't get me wrong I think there is only a 1% chance he is scum - I am just amazed by how certain he was that pere was scum, and was even talking on day 2 as if it was a foregone conclusion and that the only thing to do now was start looking at associative tells. Impressive self-confidence more than anything else, I guess.

edit: he expands on this in later posts (710, 712). Makes more sense why he was so certain now.

Totally get ddd's chkflip kill (I'm assuming that was the vengeful kill). If I didn't know he was town I would have thought he was scum as well.

Btw what's an encoder? Looked on the wiki and couldn't find it. (edit: this is sort of addressed in thread but no clear answer is given)

second edit: so apparently it enables daytalk. Is this true?
third edit: maybe not. Apparently that's an encryptor...


Yeah it seems like icerint is really trying to set himself up for the "if I was scum I wouldn't have shot jason, that would have been dumb" defence. See post 759 among others.

↑ Nachomamma8 wrote:thad's catch up posts bring no incredible revelations, but will keep reading them

aw thanks dude! Really appreciate it.

Town:
vp baltar
levi

scum:
icerint
nacho

unsure:
four
emp
human destroyer

↑ FourTrouble wrote:

↑ Iecerint wrote:FT is responding to reasonable page 1/2 stuff with a question that frames Peregrine in a scummy light AND is probably not going to garner interesting information about Peregrine. Presence of clear scum motivation + absence of clear town motivation.

Uh, no. I don't think I framed him in a scummy light... The questions I asked were primarily a response/defense to Peregrine's terrible reason to vote me, and also an attempt to understand the motivations behind Peregrine's shitty reasoning. The town motivation there is pretty simple: is Peregrine's bad vote have scummy motivation or town motivation.

You're vote is worse though, no depth of thought to your analysis whatsoever. You're not considering my reactions from MY perspective.

So we have guaranteed scum in PeregrineV, and an additional scum in Iec/Empking. With that in mind, do I think FT opens up the gate with attacking both partners for opportunistic voting on SK? No, probably not. Even if Empking is the townie out of the Peregrine/Iec/Emp trio, it seems like an odd place to put yourself.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:

↑ PeregrineV wrote:I have no clue (but doubt it). You saw the reasons people are voting her, what do you think?

I already answered your question, obviously. If you "doubt" that everyone on the SK wagon is town, then why the fuck are you voting for me? Your stated reason for doing so was because I was voting someone on the SK wagon even though SK was voting himself... but if you agree that someone on the SK wagon is probably not town, then you have no reason whatsoever to vote for me.

There's this, which is again a genuine response to Peregrine's vote. Peregrine's question in and of itself seems like he was uncomfortable with this situation; FT's response doesn't seem like he was.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:Iecerint, if I express something as a question, it probably means I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying correctly. It is a conversational thing, people do it all the time. It basically qualifies things with, "unless I'm mistaken, you're saying..."

Point is, you're saying Peregrine voted for me because town would not vote for someone on the SK wagon. I'm saying the implication there is that everyone on the SK wagon is town.

I never strawmanned Peregrine, I never even said Peregrine was conscious of the implication behind his vote for me. Hence why I asked him the question in the first place. I was trying to understand the depth of Peregrine's thought process as well as his overall logical consistency.

This is the way I play, there is nothing scummy about it.

this would make FT pretty much confirmed town with an Iece scumflip

↑ FourTrouble wrote:I like the pressure on Peregrine but there are a couple other people that I'm more concerned about, specifically HD. I don't like the way he avoids any real scumhunting with his vote on Empking, then his blatant misrep of RF even after RF explains what he meant, plus using that to justify his vote, as if somehow RF became more scummy after RF explains what he meant. I just don't see where or how HD suddenly decided RF is a better place to put his vote after RF's response.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:I'd be down for a Peregrine lynch but I don't want to rush it,

and then somehow after being plenty of bus happy he decides to pussyfoot the peregrine lynch, which seems a bit weird to me. I mean, distancing in the beginning and protecting later is fine, but distancing in the beginning and then having horrible interactions later doesn't seem quite right.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:Chkflip, you're not making any sense. VP is not saying the fact that scum are given fake claims means PV is fake claiming, he's saying that it has no bearing whatsoever on PV's affiliation. He's calling PV scum for a completely different reason. Now, don't misinterpret this as me agreeing with VP, I'm actually inclined to agree with you PV is probably town and it is definitely premature to be calling for his death. That doesn't mean VP is scum though.

Then suddenly pulls the plug, has natural interactions again.

quote="In post 581, FourTrouble"]

↑ PeregrineV wrote:So, from a townBP mindset, everyone else was scumhunting, but I was not?
So, I'm scum, and VP voted for me. That's cool.
But, when I looked at the six votes on me, townBP immediately saw that as a scum move, because scum try to stay alive, but town do not.
When I claimed, townBP saw my VT claim as scum, or didn't care, or whatever. That's fine.
However, every post I make he tries to reinforce his view that I'm scum regardless of what I actually say and without responding to it. To me, that's tunneling. And I can't think of any town reason day1 to tunnel.

And to ask you, since I don't see it quite as clearly as you, how has BP been scumhunting? What scum has he located that he hasn't called scum through some "association" with me?

You're still not representing VP accurately. The mistake you're making is the assumption that you can defend yourself by telling VP - and everyone else voting for you - that they're wrong to vote for you because of so-and-so reason. If you're town, what you need to do is hunt for scum instead of sitting around doing nothing but defending yourself. Your chain of logic in your defense just misrepresents what VP is saying either way. He's calling you scum because you aren't scumhunting. The rest of his posts are about showing that your other actions make sense from a scum point of view, not that they themselves are reasons to think you are scum. There is a difference here that you're blurring, and that's why your vote on VP is so bad.

To answer your question, VP has done more than enough scumhunting. He has some strong townreads (some of which I don't necessarily agree with but understand where he's coming from), and his tell on Iecerint applies regardless of your affiliation as far as I'm concerned so no it's not just in association to you, and the fact he's tunneling on you makes sense given the way you've responded to his pressure.

I myself can't quite explain why but I have a gut feeling you are town. I really shouldn't, logically speaking you are obviously pretty scummy. I've been trying to understand your thought process because I was hoping maybe you'll reveal something towny for me to latch onto. So far, nothing to see here and you still aren't even scumhunting, and that's a pretty bad sign.[/quote]
this seemed fairly genuine to me.
not to mention he's making this massive noise around the PeregrineV situation, yet not voting the counterwagon. I can't actually figure out the angle scumFT would be pushing here, but I can understand the town mindset.

↑ FourTrouble wrote:

↑ chkflip wrote:LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

↑ Ms Marangal wrote:Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

fair point, more blatant than the rest of his defending would be

other than PV interactions, I don't really see much that FT has done. which could be significant if FT interacts with scumpartners a lot, but I don't know jack and shit about his meta so I will be right back.

no fuck no he chose a buddy to distance from, chose a buddy to protect
i seriously doubt FT is scum here

I believe the admiral is very very town. unless he is just really good scum and then I would applaud his ability, but those few long posts really convince me he is town.

Because he calls you town I assume.

Anyhow, lots of stuff here to work with now. ThAd's analysis posts aren't bad. I do think the clear move today is to lynch Iec. He's the safest bet for hitting scum I believe. What I want to do is figure out who could be a potential PV-Iec partner before the day is out. That will give a clear game plan to follow.

Has Iece claimed?

I have not claimed.

If you're going to lynch me, you should go ahead and lynch me. VP needs to get my flip before all his reads are messed up.

So you've essentially claimed VT, but you're saving your name. So your scum, and that's a pretty poor attempt at AtE.