/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Vi]

I don't really see why Vi is being singled out here

The alternative is CES finding another Townie to mislynch. Also, I'm the one with a wagon.

[Empire]

Okay re-made it through the first 10 pages and think that ces/wicked are good votes. If either is scum, the other works...

How so? And what happened to your Wicked townread from D1?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

A ton of people suspected Johhog despite him making that post and despite Tammy pointing out the PR possibility in her wallpost (and even I was wavering on the Johhog townread at the end of the day). I don't really see why Vi is being singled out here, especially given that this roster is fairly competent and should have caught that/considered it more.

Apart from the Tierce-Vi thing, it felt like a very natural accompaniment to my vote.

[Faraday]

Day 2, Votecount 3

OhGodMyLife (1) - Tierce
Vi (3) - Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum, Tammy
Cogito Ergo Sum (3) - Llamarble, Empire, Vi
Benmage (1) - OhGodMyLife
WickedestJr (3) - Shadoweh, Nachomamma8, Konowa

Not voting (2) :

Deasvail, Wickedestjr

• With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 21st of March at 11:15pm GMT
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-21 19:15:44)
  
• WickedestJr is V/la

[Shadoweh]

..Oh, he's on V/LA. -_-
Vi, can you sum up your vote in a way that doesn't sound like Oh My God CES You Suck? And I honestly would never have caught that Johhog thing as a PR claim. As saying he meant he was busy or something, but I'm surprised it was obvious to anyone.
I am also refraining from ranting about the kills only because it's not topical anymore, but suffice it to say I believe the deceptive thought patterns are bad for the future.

[Tierce]

Still alive.

And not drunk, I promise.

I'll brain about this game later.

[Benmage]

I'll read tomorrow.

[Vi]

Vi, can you sum up your vote in a way that doesn't sound like Oh My God CES You Suck?

Well if you want to get down to brass tacks I wouldn't say CES sucks because that would imply that he's Town giving a good-faith effort. In the medium term what he's doing is working out well from a scum POV.

CES has spent the entire game thus far tunneling on four people, all of whom are actually pretty likely to be Town and all of whom just happen to have been the major wagons going on without his input. Three of them were targets of opportunity (Llamarble, N, penguin_alien) and I was just an easy pick along the way to lynching N and penguin_alien.

Now consider that Johhog softclaiming his power role sounds a

whole lot

like why he was killed (feel free to come up with an alternative explanation; I'll wait). Now you get to choose whether you believe I'm spinning webs of elaborate fake confusion about why he was killed, or if I was actually left out of the loop entirely AKA not scum. I'm legitimately surprised that people who have read a whole lot more of this game than I have (well, the Townies, anyway) have not picked up on this yet.

[Vi]

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

(L-3)

Though to be fair to all parties this was a bad vote.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

(L-3)
#YOLO

Much better.

[Faraday]

Prodding Llamarble and OhGodMyLife

[Tammy]

Okay re-made it through the first 10 pages and think that ces/wicked are good votes. If either is scum, the other works...

How so? And what happened to your Wicked townread from D1?

Scrapped it. I scrapped most of my reads from day one other than the ones I felt confident about and am reassessing, especially since being horribly wrong about johhog. And my wicked town read was admittedly for a pretty silly reason. He mentioned that the CTD/Shadoweh thing felt like bussing and because I had gotten a little paranoid over the same thing thought he was town for demonstrating my thought process. But, CTD/Shadoweh weren't bussing, and Nacho made some really good points regarding wicked that I had been overlooking by that point. Anyway, both are good votes to see what comes of it regardless.

[Empire]

I was more curious to see why CES/Wicked can work as a team, given that post you made.

[Tammy]

Oh sorry. In Post 103 he makes sure to follow up with Ben why he called CES scum. Benmage had previously called both Empire and CES scum in Post 42 without any reasoning for either, so why is CES the only one that wicked mentions? (He also does a similar thing with wondering why Tierce thinks N is scum in Post 248)

Both of these seem rather throwaway and don't seem to serve a real purpose than to be commenting on someone for the sake of it. Also, they both are in the list of people that CTD didn't really mention/mentioned in throwaway posts, and I know the mafia traitor role is a tricky one for us to make sense of on how they would treat their partners, but it's something I want to look into.

[Tammy]

Vi, Tammy, T/S

You've seen a lot more Tammy-scum than I have, and from what I've heard I'm not going to be good at reading her.

With that said, T.

But why though? At this point even empire, who should be good at reading me, didn't feel really comfortable calling me town. Why did you, even with the caveat?

[Tammy]

Vi, CES, T/S

Short answer: S

I said D1 that I thought CES was Town; his means of coming around to suspecting me seemed logical and supported by a surprising amount of thought (specifically "any that he chose to share"). At this point it seems evident to me that CES is tunneling me as an end to itself; if you understand what he's said about me Today, please tell me. Something similar happened with {Vi, N, penguin_alien}; notice that not only did CES coax both of the two wagons,

but he deliberately didn't choose until his vote would hold the least accountability

("just put one down for the sake of avoiding No Lynch"). Now look at this exhaustive list of people CES has pushed over the course of the game:

This doesn't seem like a very valid point. I've only seen CES!scum a few times, but none of those time did he deliberately try to avoid choosing a vote so that his vote didn't have much accountability. He might still be scum here, but this is a weak.

Luckily, I said a fair amount more than you bolded.

The bolded was all I took issue with >_>

Or anyone else who takes the time to read Tammy's walls.

That definitely implicates you more than me.

Sympathy for the reader.

unvote
vote: Vi

We're talking about CES; it's more like this.

If it makes you feel better, I've not read several peoples' walls. (If that doesn't make you feel better, etc.)

The inspiration for my post!

It never makes me feel better to be lumped with everyone else

[DeasVail]

Vi, I wasn't sure whether what CES was saying about you having particular reason to read Johhog's posts was correct. Maybe that isn't such a valid point though.

But then there's 807, where the whole 'spinning webs of elaborate fake confusion' feels exaggerated because I'm pretty sure it's the type of thing scum would want to do, and without much difficulty either.

Eh, Vi seems kind of town from her ISO, but I actually find that post scummy.... I'll sort it out later.

So, I was distracted and am running out of time again, and the busiest time of my week is coming up, so I'll say the stuff I want to say now.

Vote: Konowa

as he's probably my most solid scumread. I maybe support the Vi wagon too. CES is leaning town (maybe I'll ISO him later to check, but I'm pretty sure that's where my read is). Wicked has been someone I've put off actually trying to read and I guess it's the same again today (sorry!), but from what I remember I think he could be scum? I'll work this out too.

[Llamarble]

It's hard to casemake about CES.
I want to say how he treated me this game is funny, but it's different from the Revolution mafia buddying because he voted me for a non-bad reason first.
PoE is part of my vote. And CES' voting does work from scum.
I've disengaged for long enough that I will probably mindchange considerably when I reread tomorrow, but we'll see.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vi, can you sum up your vote in a way that doesn't sound like Oh My God CES You Suck?

Well if you want to get down to brass tacks I wouldn't say CES sucks because that would imply that he's Town giving a good-faith effort. In the medium term what he's doing is working out well from a scum POV.

So you're just arguing mild suckitude, is what you're saying? Mafia is a long-term game

CES has spent the entire game thus far tunneling on four people, all of whom are actually pretty likely to be Town and all of whom just happen to have been the major wagons going on without his input. Three of them were targets of opportunity (Llamarble, N, penguin_alien) and I was just an easy pick along the way to lynching N and penguin_alien.

I think a lot of people are acting townish, so I'm not too surprised that my suspicions would align more with the general populace this game (+2 of the 4 are likely scum). Calling yourself a pre-existing major wagon is inaccurate and suspicious (also the only way of making what you said make a lick of sense). "Easy pick along the way to lynching N and penguin_alien", yeah, that's just the accountability garbage then. Have you even ever executed a convoluted plot like that?

Now consider that Johhog softclaiming his power role sounds a

whole lot

like why he was killed (feel free to come up with an alternative explanation; I'll wait). Now you get to choose whether you believe I'm spinning webs of elaborate fake confusion about why he was killed, or if I was actually left out of the loop entirely AKA not scum. I'm legitimately surprised that people who have read a whole lot more of this game than I have (well, the Townies, anyway) have not picked up on this yet.

Did I really need to spell out that faking ignorance is a perfectly legitimate play?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Just help me lynch Vi, I'm totes bussing.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

And Tomorrow if there's no obvious safe push you just go with whoever winds up with the wagon. It's not that difficult when on a meta level there's no expectation for you to positively contribute.

I got BoPed in Revolution mafia because the town wouldn't let me bus Kanye and that was ages ago. This isn't even close to true.

You have lost all credibility by tacking "and suspicious" on. You wasted words on that feeble attempt to drive home your irrelevant point?

I'm not one to let a "overestimating one's own wagon" scum tell pass by unnoticed.

Given how much :effort: I've put into this game I think it's an unlikely one.

It doesn't take much :effort: to say you didn't know something. It's not a particularly intricate play.

I gots ta say, though, you're really stroking my ego about my scum game. It's a lot better than what I remember people (and Tammy) saying.

See, I was actually worried your scum play seemed unreasonably bad at first. Good to know.

[Konowa]

Obv prod dodge. This happens after work.

[Vi]

Vi, Tammy, T/S

You've seen a lot more Tammy-scum than I have, and from what I've heard I'm not going to be good at reading her.

With that said, T.

But why though? At this point even empire, who should be good at reading me, didn't feel really comfortable calling me town. Why did you, even with the caveat?

Because I had no reason not to except what I said.

So you're just arguing mild suckitude, is what you're saying? Mafia is a long-term game

And Tomorrow if there's no obvious safe push you just go with whoever winds up with the wagon. It's not that difficult when on a meta level there's no expectation for you to positively contribute.

Calling yourself a pre-existing major wagon is inaccurate and suspicious (also the only way of making what you said make a lick of sense).

News flash: Sometimes I don't make sense and sometimes that's actually not intentional.

You have lost all credibility by tacking "and suspicious" on. You wasted words on

that

feeble attempt to drive home your irrelevant point?

Did I really need to spell out that faking ignorance is a perfectly legitimate play?

Given how much :effort: I've put into this game I think it's an unlikely one.

I gots ta say, though, you're really stroking my ego about my scum game. It's a lot better than what I remember people (and Tammy) saying.

[Tammy]

Am I hallucinating or did ces just respond to Vi a couple hours before he actually made that post? I think I need to go back to sleep.

[Tierce]

Am I hallucinating or did ces just respond to Vi a couple hours before he actually made that post? I think I need to go back to sleep.

Clear scumbuddies who messed up their staged play!
(The board was borked up for a while earlier today.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Am I hallucinating or did ces just respond to Vi a couple hours before he actually made that post? I think I need to go back to sleep.

I would've responded sooner but board didn't let me post for a few hours.