Tales of You (Endgame)

[CarbonFiber]

Nacho, you still feel like scum. Why are you tying yourself to me?

[CarbonFiber]

@ Beli, let's roll with The Fox and The Hound.

Also, you should trust my read on PA. I am even more surer than Ffery.

[CarbonFiber]

You can't actually be serious...

If anyone actually thinks DV has a point and want me to respond, tell me that you want a response. I could probably make a response almost ENTIRELY of quotes because the conversation basically going like this:

DV: *makes an argument*
F-16: Discuss it and points out the problem
DV: *makes the same argument again*
F-16 Discusses it again and tells DV to read the thread
DV: *makes the same argument yet again and whines about being an easy mislynch when I'm the leading wagon and not him*

----

Tl;dr

1) At the time I said "vig me if RBD is town," they had claimed miller. I didn't buy that there would be two millers in the game and was right. They probably shouldn't have fake-claimed, and got counterclaimed by the townie with their role.

2) Not caring about getting AP lynched is bullshit. I'm still happy to lynch him now but DV won't vote him.

This as good as confirms DV as scum

. DV is interested in tying people to AP, not getting him lynched.

3) Justification for the reaction was to get a read on PV and others in the game. DV is incapable of reading or is simply ignoring things. I'd be shocked if he is town here.

4) Suspecting DV is not a scumtell especially when he is playing like scum.

[CarbonFiber]

@ Beli, JSU, PV, and Nacho (if you are town), let's consolidate our efforts on DV today.

[CarbonFiber]

RG, be my rock in this game.

[CarbonFiber]

PV, Nacho is very likely not getting lynched today. Vote Fox with me. If the tide turns, I'll vote Nacho with you. That and you can always vig him tonight. I am much more certain about Fox at the moment.

[CarbonFiber]

Votecount 4-6 (unchanged from 4-5)

With 11 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch or no lynch.

Red Gyarados (1): Breakfast With Stalin
Penguin_Alien (2): magenta_thegreat, CarbonFiber
magenta_thegreat (1): Just Sheep Us
CarbonFiber (2): , AngryPidgeon, Penguin_Alien
Titan (1): Red Gyarados


Not Voting (4): Nachomamma8, The Fox and the Hound, PeregrineV, Titan

Yeah, we have time.

Mod Note: None at the moment

Deadline is set at 12 days: (expired on 2014-05-25 04:32:54)

[CarbonFiber]

Yeah, we have time.

[CarbonFiber]

@ Tammy, I didn't read the Gundam Seed game because I was lazy. I don't think my play in this game has been good by any stretch of the imagination. I felt tuned out of this game and at the point of just giving up. I partly gave up playing this game because no matter what, it is just not getting any better. I am really, really sad to see you discouraged from playing this game, more so because I know I contributed to it, not just at the beginning of D1 but by just being prickly and irritated for most of the game. Everything I've tried this game ended up failing massively. I tried testing PV to see if anything comes out, and it just resulted in more paranoia everywhere. I tried to develop reactions from people after you said you were going to head out for your graduation thing but that turned out badly as well.

I genuinely didn't feel like putting effort into this game anymore but if you really think I can help make more sense of this game by giving you my thoughts on DV's meta, I'll do it.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, why did you want to be lynched earlier?

[CarbonFiber]

Also, AP, Fox, and PA are three of my top suspects in this game. I don't see what's there to like about any of their posts (well, I'm not saying I dislike Penguin's posts, but rather think that they are scummy).

[CarbonFiber]

Also, why did you want to be lynched earlier?

Never mind this. I missed the part where you explained it.

[CarbonFiber]

Falcon - Here's DV's iso in Gundam Seed

I thought the way he went after majiffy was pretty strong. It didn't have the flair, but it had a bit of certainty.

So, I looked through his early push on Majiffy and I can't help but notice a lot of similar patterns to his push on me. I am probably at a stage where I am biased because I'm scumreading DV but I don't know.

He's doing a lot of the same stuff that he is doing here. Misrepresenting posts and even after it is explained to him, continue arguing the same thing as opposed to develop his argument or engage the player. His push there and his push here came across as him trying to find something to push rather than legitimately figure out the affiliation of the player he is pushing. I probably didn't notice the similarities for his push on Rancid because I was scumreading Rancid at the time.

What are you thinking? I want to hear your thoughts about it.

[CarbonFiber]

OK. Basically caught up (sorry, lots of IRL stuff to resolve), and we have a goddamn scum lynch for today.

VOTE: CarbonFiber

a) There is absolutely no way in hell town-F-16 was reaction testing obvtown-Titan for that long.

b) I completely believe that he's scum who wants town-Tammy dead via lynch today and no later.

I'd lynch magenta or JSU, but I think CF's the scum flip that's going to break the game open for us. And really, JSU would be for information to confirm AP and BWS.

Tammy, I'm assuming when it's not 2 AM your time and you have a minute we can chat, but for the love of absolutely everything that is holy, stop trying to get yourself lynched, FFS.

Also thinking this is town-Nacho. I want to think I'm seeing PV-town here in the way he's presenting his thoughts, but I'm not sold yet. And even though info from a JSU flip is a thing, I really still want to town read them, so I have zero problem lynching a supposed miller who spent absolutely ages trying to lynch Tammy while cheerleading other town mislynches and not voting them. There's a difference between being slow to vote and goading other people into voting in your stead.

So town reads on Nacho, BWS, AP, JSU, Tammy --> scum = CF, magenta, RG...PV/F&H? Not sure about the fourth slot, but I'd lynch any of the first three happily.

...and posting this, incoherent as it is, because I'm zonked and just glad to be done dealing with V/LA stuff.

P-edit: Tammy...talk to me when you're not toasted.

Penguin is scum for this post and this post alone even if all of her other posts feel townish (they don't).

[CarbonFiber]

AP is scum because of not seeing the obvious - his reads are ridiculous and absurd beyond belief. Claiming that I am scum for testing PV is just one in a long line of rubbish posts coming from him.

[CarbonFiber]

Everything Fox says in the following post is inflammatory, intended to provoke reactions, manipulative, and overall rhetorical bullshit.

It is the single biggest example of a purely scum motivated post I've ever seen a game.

Pen or Pencil?
Old gen console or latest gen console?
What are you doing right now (other than responding to this)?

GTKAS <3

You and DV on the other hand, scumread me for scumhunting you, throw in discredits, and try to position yourself against me. If you are town, I don't even know what to say.

See, this kind of stuff is just ridiculous. I haven't even voted for you, and I explained why I thought your reasons for suspicious us didn't make sense, and I really don't get how it's unreasonable for me to investigate this further. I'm not relentlessly tunneling or doing anything else that I feel could require this 'if you're town I don't know what to say' stuff. And you're the one complaining about discredits!

I'm not positioning. I'm saying what I think about different posts. This is how I play mafia. Eventually it all, in theory, adds up to an opinion.

This is exactly how I am. <3

It could not possibly be more boring?

Scumreading me is never boring.

Thank god, someone that actually makes sense posted. You should have killed AP N2. Anyways, PV, give me a quick update on where your reads are at.

Unless the last 30 pages contain mystical answers to as yet asked questions,

Town-me, you, JustSheep

Not first choice for scum -
Breakfast
FoxHound

Used to think was town before replacement
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal

Leaving 4 scum by PoE & play

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) <--most likely
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) <---I know this is unpopular, but I want empirical evidence of townhood, not circumstantial
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) <----This may be switchable with the 2 categories above it.
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) <-----because I still have a null-read 7000 posts into the game. Experience says that it's probably scum.

This makes a lot of sense and feels town as fuck.

Thank god, someone that actually makes sense posted. You should have killed AP N2. Anyways, PV, give me a quick update on where your reads are at.

Unless the last 30 pages contain mystical answers to as yet asked questions,

Town-me, you, JustSheep

Not first choice for scum -
Breakfast
FoxHound

Used to think was town before replacement
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal

Leaving 4 scum by PoE & play

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) <--most likely
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) <---I know this is unpopular, but I want empirical evidence of townhood, not circumstantial
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) <----This may be switchable with the 2 categories above it.
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) <-----because I still have a null-read 7000 posts into the game. Experience says that it's probably scum.

Thisthisthisthisthisthisthis. So fucking this.

Just look at this post, see how much sense it makes.

I was getting really confused and lost with all the latest posting but I'm glad PV jumped in and actually started making sense and looking at the game in a way that I can understand. Thank god you are in the game.

I am so confused.

And I applaud that your scum team is going to get me lynched, but considering I'm actually going to argue for my own lynch today unless something weird happens, it's whatever.

Tammy, if you have something that you really really think makes lynching you a good idea (I'd like penguin's thoughts on this too actually), then I'm happy to do it. But if it's even so much as partly because you're frustrated with the game or think scum is going to get you lynched anyway, then there's no way I'm going to touch you. I've decided that unless something really odd happens I'm just going to assume you're town and do away with any semblance of paranoia. I know you don't trust me, but unless I really believe that you genuinely think lynching you is a good idea, I'm going to fight against your lynch regardless of what Ceph thinks.

Now CF, my immediate reaction to your posts was more confusion than actually finding you scummy, but your posts were strange enough that I think it's pretty reasonable and even expected that Tammy would scumread you for it. So, after everything you've gone through with Tammy this game, I don't understand why something that is not even scummy causes you to completely revert you read, especially from someone who has insulted my townplay because I pressure people who suspect me. You've even voted for Tammy previously in the game, so having such a problem with Tammy voting for you doesn't make any sense! Please explain this to me.

Go read Carbon's first 50 posts. If you still think he is scum, come back and explain why.

I read what was probably their 50 posts last night. I thought they were pretty town, but they're not nearly as amazing as you seem to be implying.

NotScience, can you explain why you prefer not to lynch Tammy when she asked to be lynched? That implies a certain role that benefits from being lynched, doesn't it?

If I can tell that this is probably at least partly emotion-based and not necessarily the best course of action, then surely you can too. I mean, she's even voting for you.

Woah, what is going on?

Vote Tammy please or explain in detail why you won't.

I'm not voting Tammy because I have no idea why I should (I'll read up soon though).

Okay, let me know when you are ready?

I take it back.

I have no interest in hydraing with you.

Tammy, if he's scum then he's doing all this because it's to his win condition and is probably hating it as he's doing it. If he's town then he genuinely thinks you're scum. Please don't make this a thing outside the game.

Gah, pretending to suspect Tammy always ends in disaster.

UNVOTE:

Ok this feels pretty fake.

Hmm, I'm once again conflicted on CF, and I don't think I'd vote for him without reading all of his posts anyway, so I'll do that and then make a decision.

What I do think though is that what CF did is the kind of thing that looked really scummy and was bound to be considered suspicious. So, wanting to see who would jump on doesn't make any sense because I feel like that's what town would do. I actually think it odd that RG didn't react to the whole CF thing despite having CF as a scumread. I know that I was trying to think of ways how CF was not scum and coming up short, and didn't even consider that it might be a reaction test. Theories about RG & CF being scum together with this being a ploy to enable CF to townread RG convincingly (and maybe get RG townread by others too) are going through my mind, but I'm not sure how likely this is.

1) Why am I not voting the Nacho wagon is a stupid accusation. We are nowhere near deadline. We're not lynching right now. Who I am voting is irrelevant.

But you know after previous events in this game that often lynches are essentially decided way before deadline (e.g. Mastin, Cupcake), so this doesn't make sense.

CF, AP's reaction test, although not a very good one, made a lot of sense based on a post he made before it (I forget exactly what it was). Although the apparent lack of scum motivation is what's causing me to be cautious about this whole thing, I don't understand your reaction test at all, not your conclusions, your expectations nor your behaviour. The PV thing makes sense, but the Tammy stuff? I feel like town just nips it in the bud as soon as it starts to go downhill (e.g. what AP did), not try to continue it. That feels like scum that tries to fake a town reaction test, but that doesn't know the best way to make themselves look good out of it after.

AP, don't do this self-voting thing. Although I don't feel the same way I do about Tammy, there's no way I'm going to support some lynching you scheme to prove that CF is scum when it actually does nothing to achieve that anyway.

I've kind of skimmed some of the most recent posts, but this is too much for me right now. I'll be back a bit later today.

[CarbonFiber]

p5, if you think I'm town, even without reading the game, you have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum if you vote Fox and Hound with us instead of letting scum push through a mislynch onto F-16.

JSU is right PV.

There is such a miniscule chance that the Fox and The Hound are town this game even if just through POE.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm not really sure what to say to that.

Can you explain where I am going wrong on them?

[CarbonFiber]

Regarding your scum games, I didn't do it when we were having our discussion. It happened much, much earlier, a long while ago. I simply pulled up that list as an explanation for why JSU may have been paranoid because your scumgame is not bad at all.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, PV's scumread of you is dumb, dumb, dumb.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm not really sure what to say to that.

Can you explain where I am going wrong on them?

I think that my reads list in which I think everyone is some sort of scum is indicative that I don't even know if you are wrong on them. I feel like you are, but I don't know. You post a post of theirs that isn't even inflammatory or anything but yet overlook how 90% of P5's posts to me and about me are inflammatory and full of rhetoric. He literally used that because I don't have a record of getting lynched a lot as scum, ignoring the context of everything, as reason I should be lynched in this game. Yet your lockstep group is kissing his ass.

So, for me I see a mental disconnect, I can't see where you're coming from, and it looks like rhetoric from you to me.

You might be town, they might be scum, but you're not convincing me. And I really just don't care enough about this game anymore to go back through and analyze it.

This was

exactly

the problem I've had this game and probably why I was so paranoid before I came to my senses. You say Fox's posts make sense but all they've done is shoehorn a scumread on me - at least I feel that way. Same with AP whose suspicion of me makes literally zero sense. Penguin as well who should know better. In the post I quoted, she just willfully misrepresented what happened and no one besides Nacho has even bothered to point it out, townreading her even.

Yeah, PV's suspicion of you doesn't make sense. I get it. I've been telling him repeatedly how it doesn't make sense and how it is dumb. I don't think I've ignored it. Heck, I am not even sure he is town right now and I even have latent paranoia of him. I did try to leverage his townread on me telling him to trust me that you are town because he thinks I am town.

I guess I could have called him out on it every time he posted his crap read on you but I was fed up of the game as it is, had my hands full with dealing with AP, Fox, and Penguin, and trying to sort Nacho that I didn't know how much more effort I could put into telling PV that his scumread of you was incredibly, incredibly dumb. I just got more frustrated when you kept backing up all of them and saying that anything that anyone of them have posted in this game made any sense.

I do think that PV's posts towards you as well as AP's/Fox's/Penguin's posts towards me didn't make sense. I just had my hands full dealing with the latter three.

[CarbonFiber]

Elaborate then. I feel like as long as I am missing your point, I can't get anywhere. But I feel like we can still salvage the game. It is something Nacho was saying in the neighborhood: when the game gets tough is where the real test comes in and he still believes that somehow, town can win this game and as tired as I am and as frustrated as I know you are, I think we can still win this.

[CarbonFiber]

I think the biggest problem this game is that people are being really apathetic about it. Especially considering the inactivity and barely anyone posting at this point. We really need to work on getting somewhere and achieving a lynch. I really don't care to wait till deadline and in fact, what exactly is the point of sitting around until deadline and voting then as opposed to now? We are not really having any productive discussion.

Votecount 4-7

With 11 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch or no lynch.

Red Gyarados (1): Breakfast With Stalin
Penguin_Alien (1): magenta_thegreat
magenta_thegreat (1): AngryPidgeon
CarbonFiber (2): Penguin_Alien, The Fox and the Hound
Titan (1): Red Gyarados
The Fox and the Hound (2): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us,
Nachomamma8 (2): Titan, PeregrineV


Not Voting (1): Nachomamma8

Mod Note: None at the moment

Deadline is set at 12 days: (expired on 2014-05-25 04:32:54)

Beli, Magenta, AP, RG, Nacho.

Deadline is coming soon. You are voting a wagon of one. Please move your vote and let's speed this game up.

Magenta

, I agree with you that Penguin is likely scum. But we don't have the support to lynch her today. Let's lynch FoxHound instead and get her tomorrow.

Beli

, join me in the FoxHound lynch. I am just not seeing NotScience as scum here and it is unlikely he will be lynched today. Look at all of Fox's posts and see that they are obvscum here and help me drive this lynch through. I need you right now, Beli. Let's turn this shit around and repeat PYP again.

AP

, I'd tell you to vote FoxHound but I'm pretty sure you'd rather have your dreamwagon (me). Do something. If you are town, now is a good chance to re-evaluate and lynch FoxHound. Surprise me.

RG

, Notty, you are doing a pretty damn good job of being obvtown. Now also help me lynch scum. You've played with me in Wicked, you know what my scumgame is like and you know for a fact that this is not fucking it. Help me drive this wagon through and turn this game around!

Nacho

, so you claimed that you thought FoxHound was scum. Back it up and vote them.

[CarbonFiber]

FIGHT THROUGH THE APATHY PEOPLE. THIS IS A GAME THAT WE CAN STILL WIN NO MATTER WHAT.

[CarbonFiber]

Im just sort of fading out again.

@BRO: Anyone in that list other than Penguin is fine with me I guess. I lean town on Fox and RG a little but Im probably wrong about one of them.

VOTE: magenta

Go with Fox then considering you are the only one voting Magenta.

[CarbonFiber]

Beli, how are those townreads stale and not Nacho?

Nacho's push on Mastin pinged my towndar hard, but you and Fox haven't said anything that's given me any insight into your alignment lately.

Lots of words, words, words, but so little that's been helpful fmpov. Nothing, actually.

In your case, I had you in my townlist at least partially due to bias; after that JerryArr game, I really, really wanted you to be town so we could auto-win, and here we are one lynch away from xylo and zero scum down. Wish fulfilment reads don't make sense this close to endgame. Not when it's going to take a miracle or a genius to bring home a town win.

You know why I was scumreading Mastin as hard? Because a lot of his posts didn't make sense. It is obvious now and I should have seen it from a town POV but look at some of the posts I'll quote so you can hopefully understand why I pushed the hell out of his lynch:

[CarbonFiber]

That post
it blows

^

This post (it is a longer post that I snipped out for the relevant part. Doesn't make any sense. Specifically, look at the part where he just agrees with Rancid without even thinking. He doesn't even know what he is agreeing with.

Go back and look at the post that Rancid said "blows." It is the one below:

I think

Mac

is town from a re-read of the thread. I like his initial engagement with the game and the way he meta-dived FourTrouble in Post 67 while discussing the read with zMuffinman. I like his picking up on how FT is more aggressive as scum. I initially wondered why he didn't just wait for FT to make more posts but I can see the impatience from a town POV as well. Looking through how Mac discusses reads as scum, in Post 25 of Mini 1525, the first Tales game, he says thanks and puts it aside saying he will check the meta later. I also liked the actual difference he picked up regarding FT's opening tone. I usually read FT based on his openings so I think Mac is going about it in a productive way. ffery, do you agree with my assessment that Mac is playing more to his town meta. You played with him in the first Tales game and in AA:MFA when he was scum and town respectively.

My townread on

RedGyarados

is solidified after looking through his towngames to see that early and easy townreads are not features of his towngame and are at worst null. The rest of his play feels very transparently town.

Town (Strong -> Weak)

: Titan, Red Gyarados, Lord Business, The Fox and the Hound, Mac

Spoiler:

TOWN:
1 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
2 Lord Business
3 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
4 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
5 Mac

EVERYONE ELSE:
6 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
8 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
10 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
11 GuyInFreezer
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
13 Cupcake Panda
14 PeregrineV
15 Clyton
16 orcinus_theoriginal

~ F-16

Basically updated reads and analysis. Nothing about it blows and it definitely made sense to Ffery and Bork. But for some reason, Rancid decided that the post "blows" and thought they'd leave it at that. They were literally trolling the game.

And then Mastin jumps in agreeing with the post.

I ask Mastin what about it he didn't like:

1) What didn't you like about my townread on Mac?

I don't remember?

And that's his response. It was like he wasn't even trying but was trying to create a narrative.

This held true for most of Mastin's posts. Whenever someone scumread the same person, he did, he would agree with it, encourage them, egg them on. Didn't give a shit about the actual reasoning and couldn't back it up when questioned. That's why I had a hardcore scumread on him. I was amazed he flipped town because I couldn't believe town posted like that... but MASTIN. I should have realized that it was his playstyle but I played with him before in two of his towngames and this wasn't the way she played. So, I scumread him. I rarely scumread someone this hard and been so horrendously wrong. I've been wrong plenty but not so certain and so wrong.

Hopefully that makes sense as to why my accuracy rate is so shit this game while it was so much better in JerryArr's game.

I don't normally play this and I don't normally tunnel the crap out of people and I am not normally as abrasive even if you look at any of my completed games, town or scum.

But yeah, if you expected me to be as good, then sorry to disappoint. You are not person I disappointed in this game. But you were quite sure that Mastin would flip scum too and hopefully this explains why I pushed that mislynch. It felt like Mastin/Rancid were trolling for the heck of it and trying to get a rise out of people for no reason at all.

[CarbonFiber]

EDIT
*I don't normally play like this
** and you are not the only person I disappointed.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, AP, F-16, Beli:

Do we have overlap anywhere in {penguin, magenta, foxhound, RG}? There should be someone in that group that all 5 of us have overlap on, and that's who we need to lynch today.

Yes. On RG and Fox/Hound, the former more than the latter.

Ffery trusted p_a and I'm sheeping that read for now due to how sure she sounded to me.

I still am bet-the-farm sure about townOrci.

Let's go with the latter and turn this game around.

[CarbonFiber]

F-16, I realize that at this point whatever I do you're either going to interpret it as scummy or playing to my town meta as scum because you're convinced I'm not town here. But seeing as Tammy's freaking out and I'm getting increasingly lost, can we try resetting?

I really don't get your push on Tammy if you're town. Explain it to me like I'm an idiot, please.

And explain to me why F&H is the lynch for today. Because all I see are walls and walls, and at the end of it I have no idea who's sincere and who's spamming up the thread.

I'm kind of hitting the wall here in terms of brainpower to figure this out, and I'm stressed and tired. Throw me a bone here.

Okay, well I explained this a ton of times which is why I am surprised but okay, I'll do it again like you are five.

1) I was getting increasingly paranoid of PeregrineV. Like I didn't know how he was so certain that I was town. He never doubted my affiliation. I wanted to see how he would react if I interacted in a strange/off way with him.

2) I didn't want to push on him as I didn't believe it would net me a useful reaction. I figured he might OMGUS me regaedless of affiliation which is useless as far as alignment-indicative responses go. So, I buddied him instead and said that perfectly null posts were the epitome of towniness. He didn't react even a bit.

3) Tammy suspected me in the middle of this, voted me, and said she was about to head out. I knew others would be expecting me to react in some way so I just voted her to see what happens. It is not her reaction that I was looking for, I didn't even think she would be there. It was to see how others reacted, especially PV who was hard-scumreading Tammy. PV gave me no good reaction. I thought town-PV would be excited as fuck that me, his townread am voting him scumread Tammy. But nothing. That just fueled my suspicion of PV even more. On the other hand, I also got an incredibly, insanely townie reaction from NotScience so I was happy with that.

4) I explained what I was doing and the results I got out of it.

---

I have no idea why you jumped on me for it. Why don't you explain to me like I'm five what the issue was.

[CarbonFiber]

Being treated this way is possibly the most frustrating thing that can happen in a game of mafia.

Yeah, no shit. From the beginning of the time I suspected you, your responses have been the most frustrating things I've ever encountered. DV acting like a sweet, innocent person while constantly twisting and manipulating everything I said. And hey, no one is bothering to even the fucking thread so you can get away with it.

CF is blatantly scum. I don't know what to say to anyone who can't see that right now. The stupid fucking appeal to everyone mastin impression posts make me want to actually stab someone.

I'll appeal to everyone to get scum lynched. I had forgotten Mastin did it but it irrelevant.

I can't tell if I want to stop playing mafia, or just avoid certain people, a break is certainly in order either way, but this game has been pretty brutal... I guess on some level I know my life will be overall better when I'm done with it but that somehow isn't enough to make me want to be :/

I'd love to see CF get lynched tomorrow when he pulls a fake emotional breakdown over being wrong about us even if we ultimately lose anyway

I think a lot of us feel that way and this game has been annoyingly irritating and frustrating to deal with. Best way out is to fight through all the apathy and lynch your cheeky scumfuck ass and turn this shit around and put town on the path to victory.

[CarbonFiber]

*No one is bothering to even read the fucking thread.

[CarbonFiber]

I don't even know Penguin, if you are town. Please, please, please help me lynch this scumbag. If you are town, you are just wrong about me. I thought you had a good idea of my playstyle. You know I am logical and analytical the majority of the time but occasionally really OTT. This happened in both a town and scum game you played so I don't even know why you think this is alignment indicative.

I am frustrated with this game. Everybody is. Pretty sure JSU is as well. Tammy is too. DV and Ceph are at least pretending to be as is AP. So is Nacho. The only people that aren't are probably you, PV, Magenta, Beli, and RG, the last three of which have nearly checked out of this game. PV has definitely been getting on other people's nerves and frustrating them. If you are town, that's a credit to your playstyle that you remained unruffled through this shitstorm of a game and I admire that. I need your help. I really do. I really, really wish you'd talk to me more than laying down your case and then go to the neighborhood and tell Tammy how scum I supposedly am.

[CarbonFiber]

Stop.

Stop trying to simultaneously play the victim and gloat about how you're going to get us lynched. That doesn't even make sense.

Stop accusing DV of things he didn't do.

And most of all, just stop fucking talking to me.

I have never played the victim nor have I gloated.

DV on the other hand has been ranting on and on and on about how he is this supposedly juicy mislynch and how he needs people to protect him and the load of crap emotional blackmail he's pulling on this game.

I never claimed to be an easy mislynch. I am neither easy nor extremely hard to lynch. I occasionally get mislynched. Shit happens. Now might be one of those times. If I do, I'll make sure I contribute as much as possible to the town and help as much as I can because my words will soon be those of a confirmed townie. Ideally though, I lynch scum. It may or may not happen but I am going to try. And if I fail, it is not going to be due to lack of trying, it is going to be because my best was not good enough - that I can live with.

[CarbonFiber]

Nope. There is not going to be a future breakdown although I appreciate your attempted needling as well as your whole "victim" act when you know that it is still going to take a LOT of effort to get you lynched today. Like, your playing the victim card makes literally no sense since you only two people's votes on you - the exact same number of votes that are on me.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, bet someone is going to fall for this fake emotional crap that Ceph is pulling.

[CarbonFiber]

I really, really fucking hope you get lynched and no one buys into your fake ATE and self-victimization but odds are, the rest of your scumpartners are going to pile their votes on me so unless I convince an extra-ordinary number of townies to vote you... Six votes to lynch. Seven townies in the game. So, I need to convince every other townie to vote you. Wish me luck. Zero influence is kinda bullshit when your posts apparently are the only ones that don't make at least one person groan upon opening the thread.

I have no idea why the hell you are continuing to respond if you don't want to talk to me.

[CarbonFiber]

Well, there are three ways this day is going to go:

1) I get lynched - awesome! Only four more days of having to deal with this game and I am out. In the dead thread reading all the massive insults from Muffin.

2) You get lynched - awesome! We find your buddies. Town are happy with a scum lynch. Some of the frustration, paranoia, and anger eases up.

3) Nacho shows up at deadline again, claims we are both obvtown and lynches some lurker - I'll want to kick a chair.

[CarbonFiber]

Yeah, totally agree. I'm headed off to bed. I've had it with this game. When the rest of you log on, the people on the one-man wagons, please just vote whoever even if it is me. Move this game forward and quit apathetically sitting around and doing nothing.

[CarbonFiber]

Yeah, totally agree. I'm headed off to bed. I've had it with this game. When the rest of you log on, the people on the one-man wagons, please just vote whoever even if it is me. Move this game forward and quit apathetically sitting around and doing nothing.

[CarbonFiber]

What are you trying to say?

[CarbonFiber]

So am I.

So is everybody else.

I'm starting to think the sooner this day ends or takes a massive turn, the better. No one is actually enjoying it.

[CarbonFiber]

I am 100% sure on Titan-town. It is PV that worries me.

How likely do you think PV is a scum-vig?

[CarbonFiber]

I am 100% sure on Titan-town. It is PV that worries me.

How likely do you think PV is a scum-vig?

And AP obviously.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm here.

[CarbonFiber]

UNVOTE:

Need to think some more. I still don't think FoxHound are town but I want to hear from Nacho first.

[CarbonFiber]

I can't come up with another way CF would do something this ridiculous as scum, so that's what I'm going with.

If you can't think of a way why I would play the way I'm playing as scum, it means I'm TOWN, you idiot.

Anyways, what hapenned to your Nacho scumread?

[CarbonFiber]

I won't discount Magenta throwing in a bus vote on FH hoping to distance or discourage their lynch.

I think the following players are obvtown: Titan, JSU, Stalin.

That leaves 4 scum in the remaining 7 players {AP, PV, Penguin, Fox, Nacho, Magenta, RG}

RG is the one I find the towniest of the seven and leaving PV alive to confirm his role is optimal although I have concerns about him.

If we are all convinced on Magenta, it is not a bad idea to kill them first.

[CarbonFiber]

I was about to head to bed but lying in bed, I just remembered something so I needed to come back and type it out.

Re-evaluation of reads:

Let's say one of Mastin or Rancid flipped town and called the other obvtown, then yes, I'd re-evaluate reads there and wonder if I was wrong about the other since I was wrong about one.

On the other hand, I had Mastin, Rancid, and AP as scum. Mastin and Rancid both claim that AP was the scummiest scum that ever scummed. Then they die and flip town. That only strengthened my scumread on AP not weakened it.

So, the "re-evaluate reads" mantra that Fox and the Hound are drilling into everyone just doesn't make any sense. They claim that reads ought to be re-evaluated and people are scummy for not doing so. Yet, the gamestate hasn't changed in a way (for me at least) to require re-evaluation of reads based on Mastin/Rancid townflips. Because Mastin and Rancid were hard-scumreading my remaining scumread from D1 and we know now that they are town and that their suspicion was genuine.

Pedit: getting to Brian's wall now.

[CarbonFiber]

I've only read bits and pieces of this day. And although I don't want to read the entirety of it, I feel like I'm going to end up doing it because I really want to see how AP/JSU managed to backtrack away from an AP wagon.

It's like, Katsuki claims a straight up counter-claim towards AP's night action. AP rushes the counterwagon through and all of a sudden he's no longer eligible for a lynch? I really have to find out what kool-aid you've all been drinking.

And I've seen JSU's response in thread. I don't really care. I think JSU's scum anyways. And barring AP flipping some godfather role with a night action, I'm completely okay with lynching JSU if it leads towards an AP lynch. Nacho is also an acceptable lynch for me. But I know this town won't lynch him.

Like, I really don't understand how you let AP rush a 1v1 counterclaim and just let him walk away, barring some role madness nonsense like a bus driver or whatever. He's probably just scum. Like, really.

Thank fucking god. Finally someone that makes sense and restored my faith in this game.

The bolded is so fucking true and if there is one person I absolutely want to lynch, it is AP. But no one else besides the two of us are going to vote him so tough luck there. We'll have to lynch other scum first.

I actually think there is a pretty damn good chance Fox and Hound are scum with AP. First they accuse me of not pushing AP hard enough going so far as to say that AP and I could be scum together. Then when I try to get their help in lynching AP, they dodge my questions saying they don't have a read on AP. Then, later on, they change their read on AP to town and claim that I am scum because I am not trying to get town-AP lynched and am not taking a leaderhip role in driving lynches. This again is bullshit because I have done so D1 and D2 and it is not like my alignment changed mid-game.

Secondly, they've been townreading me most of the game, but when I express suspicion of them, DV does a massive charade of going through all of my posts, claiming my early posts are townish, then that my later posts are scummy, and finally "concluding" from his massive amount of shit analysis that I am scum. Like, the whole thing feels so contrived and fake like pretending to be thoughtful and towny.

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, and also Muffin's flow bussing theory about Cephrir and AP re-inforces my belief in Fox/AP team besides all of their rubbish about how I am AP's buddy.

[CarbonFiber]

Beli

, now is a bad time to let your paranoia get the better of you. You are voting me because my play doesn't match up to PYP which is reasonable but I am not as good as you think I am. Read any of my other completed games and I rarely have perfect reads. PYP was an exception and it was one of my better games. I don't really mind your paranoia but I need you to work with me. If you suspect Fox/Hound, now is a good time to help me push this wagon. Don't check out of this game, come back and vote someone because they're not as good as you thought they were. Work with me and compromise and vote FH.

Brian

, trust me, if you get even two other people to vote AP, I'll join you on that wagon. But right now, we need to consider viable alternatives.

Nacho

, still waiting on hearing from you.

[CarbonFiber]

I see CF stepping back lasted all of four seconds. Perhaps his scumbuddies reminded him he needs to lynch us today.

{magenta, foxhound, RG, penguin}

We lynch in that group.

Beli, get the fuck off the miller who knew that the other miller wasn't a miller because he was a miller.

...Or because his fakeclaim was miller.
It baffles me that this is hard for you to come up with.
I really expect you to think less linearly than you have this whole game.

Okay, enough with the snark. You think Nacho is scum. Will you help me lynch him today?

[CarbonFiber]

Mara's

townread on Nacho bugs me. She pointed out how in NY169, Nacho was playing to specific people which is something I elaborated on in-depth in the dead QT after scumreading him in thread. I think it was mostly me and Pieguyn pushing the angle that Nacho was appealing specifically to certain players.

But here, I am scumreading him pretty hard and she hasn't really engaged any of my points. I even made a case about how he is scum. It just feels weird that in NY169, Mara townread Nacho, I go bit by bit through her reasoning and point out why I disagree and that he is scum. Here I scumread him, and she still townreads him without wondering why I am scumreading him.

On the other hand, Penguin too townread Nacho and brushed aside the read without spending a lot of time trying to refine it which isn't how I would expect Penguin to read Nacho after being fooled by him in Wicked.

@ Brian

, I see you online and I am eagerly awaiting your updated thoughts. My current thoughts are that Nacho/AP/Fox are three of the scum and those I feel decently confident about and I'd love it if you be awesome and work with me and help me lynch Fox today since there is a larger wagon on them. I will help you lynch Nacho tomorrow. Oh, also as for why you are town, I think I elaborated on it before - your read on me felt genuine and you were using similar reasoning to what helped you catch me in AoT in that I as town do tend to defend easier lynches like PV a lot. I also liked your catchup walls which I pointed out when I responded to them. I think that a lynch of the Fox and The Hound is a fantastic way to move forward. A lot of their recent plays, I just can't see coming from town. A quick summary:

1) DV's response to me suspecting him was the most ridiculously scummy thing in this game. He immediately casts doubt onto his townread of me. Then does a massive "re-evaluation" where he goes back through my initial posts, justifies his townread and then goes through more posts to beautifully show how his read has morphed into a scumread. All this happens right after I push him. It is bullshit. It is a presentation that is made to look good and like a thoughtful townie going back to consider every possibility. It feels extremely unnatural and faked. The timing of it doesn't feel genuine either.

2) DV has accused me of not taking a leadership role this game day. This is bullshit because a) I have been trying my best to get their slot lynched and b) My alignment couldn't have changed from D1/D2 where he claims that I was trying to lead the town.

[CarbonFiber]

That's not what I said. I said DV's effort to look town felt unnatural and contrived.

Also, I am scumreading Magenta and Nacho as well. Magenta's vote on you feels like a bus vote to make your wagon look bad but I'll take whatever.

[CarbonFiber]

I also feel adamantly opposed to a Fox lynch right now just because AP/JSU want it to go through.

Actually AP doesn't. Check out his chainsaw in 7663.

I might still end up voting that slot, though (I just find it extremely unfair to them that I've been ignoring their slot's posting for most of this game).

Then do it. It'll feel awesome when we force through a scum lynch. Then I'll help you lynch Nacho. By then, people will wake up and see AP as scum so we'll lynch him too. Then we'll find the final scum.

[CarbonFiber]

I can't be bothered arguing anymore.

I ask with everything I have for us to lynch CF. If it gets closer to deadline and a CF lynch is obviously not happening then I'll settle for some other not-us lynch (Ceph can choose if this ends up being the case as I've probably embarrassed him enough with my antics), but I can dream.

More bullshit from Fox. It looks as though plenty of people want to lynch me and DV paints it like a scumread he is sure about but no one is listening to poor DV! (After several people expressed wanting to lynch me). It feels like fake fatalism, fake self-victimization, and fake sincerity.

[CarbonFiber]

NACHO

, quit lurking, I see you online.

[CarbonFiber]

Why am I a superb lynch Tammy? And who is HF?

[CarbonFiber]

Jesus fuck, quit attacking us every time we post

^ another scummy post where Ceph paints himself as a poor victim being attacked by big bad CF who nobody wants to lynch (even though plenty of people want to lynch me).

[CarbonFiber]

I dislike your tactics but I'll live.

Ceph, point out a towngame where someone tried to lead a lynch on you and you resorted to emotional blackmail and personal attacks.

[CarbonFiber]

Nacho, you said FH was scum. Back it the fuck up.

[CarbonFiber]

Who?

[CarbonFiber]

If you are town, the scumteam is Magenta/Penguin/AP/Fox (as long as PV can shoot again to confirm his role).

[CarbonFiber]

But this isn't the way you talk as town. This reminds me more of Molla's Micro 252 where you showed up upon being called and gave the names of two of my scumreads. Nothing like any of your towngames.

Why not Fox? They are cheekier scumfucks than Magenta and Penguin.

[CarbonFiber]

You are seeing what you want to see. FoxHound are attacking me as well but that's okay because they are a townread and I am a scumread. They are also resorting to malicious emotional manipulation which isn't worthy of comment but me calling Ceph an idiot is. Why not just vote me and get it over with?

[CarbonFiber]

If Nacho is derailing everything you are doing, why is he town?

I am not having a pissing contest with AP. It is Fox's lynch I've been pushing.

[CarbonFiber]

I dislike your tactics but I'll live.

Ceph, point out a towngame where someone tried to lead a lynch on you and you resorted to emotional blackmail and personal attacks.

I haven't had a lynch led on me in a rather long time, but you'll be hard pressed to find me reacting this way as any alignment, because rarely have I been harassed quite this effectively

But this isn't the way you talk as town. This reminds me more of Molla's Micro 252 where you showed up upon being called and gave the names of two of my scumreads. Nothing like any of your towngames.

Why not Fox? They are cheekier scumfucks than Magenta and Penguin.

you are the cheekiest scumfuck that ever cheeked a scumfuck

You are seeing what you want to see. FoxHound are attacking me as well but that's okay because they are a townread and I am a scumread. They are also resorting to malicious emotional manipulation which isn't worthy of comment but me calling Ceph an idiot is. Why not just vote me and get it over with?

It's not fucking malicious, it's an honest reaction to what basically amounts to bullying

Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
More playing the victim here, calling me a bully and a harasser. Somehow everyone is missing this crap.

MORE VOTES ON FOXHOUND please.

[CarbonFiber]

You really need to take a step back, disregarding both your alignment and mine for the time being, and realize that that actually describes what you are doing perfectly

Quit pretending like you are taking some sort of high road, scumfuck. Everything you did this game is emotional blackmail, manipulation, playing the victim, and personal attacks. I'll be disappointed even if you win as scum this way because you make me sick.

[CarbonFiber]

And I'm saying this as a friend and not as a player.

Telling that to me without calling Cephrir out on his crap just feels like empty words.

[CarbonFiber]

Hey CF remember 169 and how scum did this exact thing to me and it worked

I think you do

What did scum do to you? Try to lead a lynch on you? Well, yeah it happens. Scum and town both try to lead lynches on other players. I am not even sure how it is meaningful.

You never descended to the level of calling anyone a bully though or claim that they are harassing you.

[CarbonFiber]

W/e,
UNVOTE:

I don't want to lynch Fox/Hound anymore. I doubt Ceph would say what he did as scum and he actually winds up scum here, I won't be congratulating him at endgame.

[CarbonFiber]

I'll have to double check the game where Bulbazak was pushing a lynch on him and most people were like "there is no way Ceph can do that as scum" but he was scum with Ceph in a different game and knew he could do anything so continued pushing the lynch to make sure what Cephrir is capable of. But I'll add him to the town pile with Titan, JSU, and Stalin (and conditionally Peregrine if he vigs a second player to prove that he is not a scum 1X vig). That leaves AP, Nacho, Penguin, Magenta, and maybe RG who I am reading as town. I think the first four are a good bet for the scumteam. Nacho could be bussing Orc. AP/Nacho makes a ton of sense. Penguin brushing aside her Nacho read makes sense from scum-Penguin, and Magenta's lack of paranoia over Nacho again makes sense from scumMara.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Pedit: I haven't been fucking antagonizing you. I'm responding to your endless crap and bullshit that you've pulled this game.

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, and every time I see a post from you or AP, it makes me want to jump in front of oncoming traffic, so you are killing me this game. Well done!

[CarbonFiber]

I've obviously been reading and responding to your posts as you posted. I just realized now that if you were scum, this wouldn't be the way you would want to win. There were several other things you could say other than "you are harassing me," "you are a bully," and "I don't want to play with you." And I don't think that's how you would want this game to turn out. If you were scum, you would be winning anyways and the way you played (if it was deliberate) would have just been in bad taste.

[CarbonFiber]

This game is really driving me up the wall and annoying the crap out of me. It started out fine and at a slow pace and I was even reading the thread multiple times to try and develop reads. And then AngryPidgeon replaced in and everything went to shit. He started spamming up the thread with Mastin arguing endlessly inane and pointless crap and the two of them went way overboard with the spam and I lost all desire to read and re-evaluate this game because the only thing that's left is a massive pile of shit. I am dreading even going back and linking and referencing past posts. Even my readslist was crappily done with no links whereas usually I am a lot more precise with links and quotes. The behavior of other players didn't help as well. I have nothing against Mastin but she was spamming way too much along with AP making the game nearly impossible to get through. And then posting stuff like the one I pointed out to Beli which was literally manipulation in disguise. I get that Mastin is manipulative as town, she even wrote an MD article about it saying that town need to take in elements from their scumgames and I think she went way overboard and was basically playing like scum early D1. She changed it up D2 but the damage was done. Rancid didn't help either by fake-claiming our role and continuing to attack everyone pushing Mastin not to mention the constant vitriol coming out of their slot as long as they were alive. I'm just glad they were gone on D1 which is one reason I think PV could be town because if scum, there are way better targets to shoot that weren't being a distraction.

And there is AP. Spamming and manipulating every step of the way. I don't at all get the sense that he was being collaborative or helpful. He's been the least collaborative person in this game and was the main cause of me not wanting to read the game anymore whereas before his replacement, I read the game about ten times. And DV and Ceph basically acting like only scum scumread them which is downright ridiculous. I accused both them and RG of being scum. Notscience responded by offering to work with me and help me figure out the game while Ceph and DV take it basically as a personal attack to be scumread. There is still a lot of stuff that doesn't add up. The way they are buddying Titan all game and the manipulative way in which they are responding to posts and their positionality. DV's refusal to lynch Nacho, and the way they brushed AP under the rug. It just doesn't make logical sense but I'll go back to my suspicion of Cephrir in NY169 and I don't think it is alignment indicative maybe. I just don't want to believe he would act like this as scum.

Between AP and Fox, I've had it with this game. I don't feel like playing anymore and trying to get the town to fight through the apathy. Brian is right that if we continue to ignore how AP pushed Katsuki and townread him based off of a supposed "clear" without taking into consideration that Mastin called him scum, and that Katsuki caught him, and that his behavior has been scummy as all fuck, then town probably deserves to lose. I don't want to lose since I think at least some players have put in enough time and effort but I have no intention of forcing the town to win.

Anyways, here's the deal: Fox, if you are town, vote Nacho. Brian, let's push the Nacho lynch through. That will be five votes out of six. BRO, realize that Nacho is undermining you because he is scum. Beli, you are probably the remaining town in the game. I think you are wrong about Nacho.

I almost half don't want to lynch Nacho because of his posts in the neighborhood and I'll probably miss him even if he was scum but I can't let that influence my vote.

[CarbonFiber]

Tl;dr, I don't even know why I am continuing to post in this game, and NACHO NEEDS MORE VOTES ON HIM, LIKE NOW. I'd hate to wait till deadline again for no reason. I want everyone in their next post to unvote whoever they are voting and vote NACHO and I am impatient as fuck about this.

Brian

, please, please vote Nacho when you next show up. You post like once every day and I am really getting impatient that each day you talk about how you might vote but not actually doing it. Like an actual vote for Nacho would be super awesome right now.

Cephrir

, I am not scum here. You are wrong about me. Even if you don't want to believe I am town, help me "bus" Nacho then at worst, and work with me to lynch him at best.

[CarbonFiber]

And before Beli claims that I am scum for trying to lynch multiple people in succession, there are four scum, and I just changed my mind on Cephrir in a pretty huge way.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, I have more posts than AP now (inb4 anyone points that out), everything I'm doing has the intention to moving town towards a specific goal as opposed to AP's junk posts so yeah, I still hold that he is spamming the thread. Also most of my posts are very recent ones when I just gave up on trying to control the noise.

Also, Nacho needs more votes.

I am going to check out of this game for a while. Lynch Nacho by the time I get back.

[CarbonFiber]

The only suspicion I've taken as personal attack was yours, because it was one (and continues to be, you're still doing it...)

I want to vote Nacho but I wish someone other than you was telling me to do it. I guess bussing happens.
I feel bad ignoring DV but he's not been very communicative lately :S

DV, if you see this remind me to chat with you about something role related and why it makes me feel like the below is something we just have to do at this point
VOTE: nacho

p-edit: tammy we are not lynching you, lynching scum would solve the problem so we should just do that instead

I at least haven't descended to your level of emotional blackmail combo with playing the victim and personal attacks at the side. Please stop doing it.

Yeah, continue to believe I am bussing, I could give a crap. I guess that's the best I can expect from you.

[CarbonFiber]

There were no personal attacks in the post above, just a description of what you were doing this game and I am asking you nicely to stop. I feel like you are trolling me at this point.

[CarbonFiber]

You'll be hard pressed to find me reacting this way as any alignment, because rarely have I been harassed quite this effectively.

It's not fucking malicious, it's an honest reaction to what basically amounts to bullying

It is a description of what you are doing and I am asking you to stop. I don't get what your problem is. It feels like you are prolonging conflict for the sake of it.

[CarbonFiber]

Lynch Nacho by the time I get back.

I'm back and he is not dead yet.

*disappointed*

[CarbonFiber]

UNVOTE:

*more disappointment*

Not you too, Tammy!

[CarbonFiber]

Never mind.

[CarbonFiber]

Please do go to sleep and refresh yourself. I'll have our first scum lynch ready for you by the time you return.

[CarbonFiber]

Unvote: Nacho

Can we

please

not do this.

I told JSU in the neighborhood thread to hammer Nacho and they probably will when they log on. (Unless you want to be the hammer in which case feel free but at least post more often).

[CarbonFiber]

Yay. JSU! He IS scum. Do you think the gamestate would be at this much shit if Nacho was town?

Also, he is not even pushing at anyone or working with anyone to drive a lynch through. He is happy with the gamestate. Go on and hammer, I can't wait for this day to end. I really, really, really want it to.

[CarbonFiber]

Hammer while Cabd is still here and let's see the flip.

[CarbonFiber]

So, I've read through this game again overnight as I had a renewed interest in it after the first scum lynch to see what I can get from Nacho's and Bork's interactions with other slots and just got hit with a massive pile of my bad posting and I was thinking about it during the night.

Spoiler: FoxHound

Cephrir (and DV as well), regardless of your affiliation, I am sorry about my posting D4 where I pushed for your lynch . I think I was wrong (I feel you are much more likely town than scum at this point though). I guess most of me personally attacking you came after you said I was harassing/bullying you, which I wasn't and that only triggered my desire to see you as scum and I was hoping, maybe, maybe that you were scum and the whole thing was orchestrated just so that you could get out of being lynched and discredit me. At this point, I am pretty sure, that town or scum, you are not faking it so there is no getting around it or hoping that you are scum pretending to be annoyed at me. I probably shouldn't have pushed as hard as I did (especially on town which I am leaning towards you being right now). I think mostly Tammy's posts made me realize that I was probably in the wrong with you since I know she's not out to get me. I made the same mistake with Muffin and Nat in that I didn't want to believe that all of their insults came from town so I just hoped that they were scum. What I missed was that they were good enough scum players that they didn't need to resort to insults to dodge a lynch and were genuinely frustrated. I am not making that same mistake again. I guess my irritation with your posting started mostly after your very unnecessary comments D3 after Tammy and I had an argument and figured out we were both town at the end of it and I felt you and DV continuing to poke at it long after it was over was irritating. It was something that was resolved a while before either of you logged on and obviously wasn't something I want to continue discussing nor did I want your opinion about it. It didn't involve you and it is not something you are going to develop any sort of read out of. I'll assume you had the best of intentions when you quoted posts saying "I still think you are town but etc" as if it would benefit the town but I certainly don't see it that way. It is not an argument that you or DV needed to get involved in and it isn't helping at all nor is DV making a quote-stripe asking for elaboration. In general, getting in the middle of a conflict to take a side is rarely helpful and I never at any point was thankful that you or DV stepped in and never thought that either of you trying to make sense of it was the least bit beneficial and it would have been better if you had not commented at all. If you are town, I feel it is best to move on.

Spoiler: AngryP

AP, I shouldn't have said that your posts are bad because they are not. I just didn't like them because most of them involved suspecting me. I don't know if you are town or scum, but if you are town, I shouldn't have posted what I did. I can maybe see you as town and I guess JSU clearing you counts for something. If you are a scum godfather, meh, I don't care as much if we at least make some strides in lynching two of the scum which is better than what I thought was possible.

Spoiler: Tammy

Tammy, I know you are really mad at me and very disappointed and I understand why. The shit state of the game isn't AP's fault, or FoxHound's, or Mastin's, or Rancid's. It is mine. None of them decided to vote you D4 before you headed off to graduation, I did. And I think I was the last person you expected to do that because I've played with you enough and I should know better and I am sorry. I was annoyed at not being able to help, irritated that you were not talking to me and I did stupid things impulsively to shake up the game. I also shouldn't have said that your posts didn't make any sense when DV agreed with them. I was angry at the suspicion towards me, that someone was agreeing with it when I knew myself to be town, and mostly I felt I was inadequate in being town enough and lashed out at anyone pointing it out for me. It is not your fault for pointing it out and I probably acted the way I did because I thought I wasn't meeting your standards for being obvtown. Your suspicion was reasonable and you were right to probe further. I just wished I could make my affiliation obvious like you do but I realize now I'm not as transparent. I also should have listened to your reads (FH in particular). I am convinced now that you were right and if I listened to you like I would in any other game instead of ignoring your townread there, the gamestate wouldn't have been so toxic last phase. But it was your (and Nacho's) posts towards me that made me realize that I was the one at fault here and it was pretty stupid to think that you were seeing what you wanted to see. I guess I wasn't ready then to admit that I was in the wrong yet. At several points in the game, I could tell that you were looking to me (and Nacho) to help you make sense of the game. Possibly even more than you did for other players. You even went so far as to continually say that you enjoyed playing with me even when I played like shit and kept testing your patience and unwittingly doing everything possible to make you change your mind on whether you like playing with me. I am sorry for disappointing you and letting you down as badly.

You asked me before who was frustrating you and who wasn't and I never really responded to it. I was the one frustrating you by freaking out on you D3 for a simple vote, by not working with you when you posted that Gundam Seed link to DV's scumgame and then expecting you to work with me, by pushing the FH lynch out of frustration not taking into account the fact that you said their posts were good, by voting you on D4 when you voted me, by saying that your suspicion of me didn't make sense, and by telling you that you were seeing what you wanted to see when you with all good intentions told me to quit the dumb push on FoxHound. Neither AP nor FoxHound did any of that nor did they attack you for mind-numbingly stupid shit like PV so I think they've been more collaborative to play with. You were right about everything. I don't intend to let any of my frustration seep through into this game anymore (or any other game for that matter although it has been confined to this one). I want you to hold me to this and tell me that if you see me annoy you again, you'll quit interacting with me for the rest of the game because I really love playing with you and I'd hate to do that. Also, do you still feel after Nacho's scumlynch that town doesn't deserve to win?

[CarbonFiber]

Also, for the first time, I found something in this game to be happy about. I never figured we'd be able to lynch scum with the rate we were going but we did and that's awesome and I think even if we lose, we are going to go down fighting and not roll over and give scum a perfect win.

My biggest suspect right now is Magenta the great.

1) Nacho's push on Orc D1 smelled so much like a bus especially since Orc could only self-govern D1.

2) Mara's lack of paranoia over Nacho was weird as well as her lack of interactions with other players who read Nacho better in NY169.

[CarbonFiber]

That's a nice way to put it but if you are town, past you is wrong. If I recall correctly, past-you had two suspects me and Nacho and Bork.

What do you think of Magenta?

[CarbonFiber]

DEAD

1 Lord Business, who was Kreed Grafyte, Town Sealed Persona-Roleblocker, was lynched day one. (Possibility of re-entry into game)
2 Mac, who was Ricardo Soldato, Town Paranoid Bodyguard, was Killed Night 1 (also rolestops target)
3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman + natirasha), who was Sword Dancer, Town Battleseeker was Killed Night 1 (A modified gladiator)
4 MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK), who was Ruca Milda, Town Bulletproof Re-incarnated god, was lynched day two (Voteless till LYLO)
5 Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn), who was Tear Grants, Town Evolving JOAT, was killed night two
6 CupcakePanda, who was Chelsea Torn, Town Modified Delayer, was lynched Day Three (Has a oneshot magnet ability)

7 Nachomamma8, who was Arietta, Mafia Wild Child Beastmaster was lynched Day Four. (Alternating commuter-roleblocker)

8 PeregrineV, who was Yuri Lowell, Town Lone Wolf was killed Night Four. (1X Delayed-Flip Vig)

Town

:
1 CarbonFiber - Town. Just town
2 Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dayne) - Obvtown
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon + Desperado) - Town
4 Belisarius - Tammy says town, I think town, and IF AP is town (which I am on the fence about), he confirmed Beli

Leftovers

:
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies + notscience)
6 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir + DV)
7 AngryPidgeon
8 Penguin_alien

Scum

9 MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)

I think the remaining two scum are among the leftovers obviously but I want to get rid of Magenta first.

[CarbonFiber]

I think I was the first vote on nacho. I took it off to troll falcon, makes me feel less special that way.

Also I now feel less like a bitch about my rants to Bork about not doing anything and all that jazz, cuz he was scum.

[CarbonFiber]

Bork had me 100% fooled though.

[CarbonFiber]

AP, the way the wagons were going wasn't really like two counterwagons where half the people vote one player and half vote the other. There was a lot of vote switching and last minute wagoning so I won't really say Fox was a CW to Nacho or JSU is suspicious for voting there.

[CarbonFiber]

Why do you think he wanted to get lynched? I mean, he probably didn't put as much effort into avoiding a lynch like he did in Wicked but he was still trying to get RG to unvote him.

A weird thing that happened in the neighborhood was Nacho asked me what I thought of Ceph relenting so quickly and voting him. It felt like an attempt to manipulate me to go back and attack Ceph. He also flat out told me a while ago in the neighborhood to attack DV.

[CarbonFiber]

I want to see Nacho do more than play wise mediator for Tammy-CF. I'm particularly interested to see what he does with me (yes, self-centered, deal with it) given how he played me in Wicked. I also can't remember my last game with town-Nacho (NY 164?), but I know that scum-Nacho always takes me a while to find and then I doubt myself horribly (HP: CoS, X-Men)

I remember nothing from RG or F&H. That can change any time, please and thank you.

Current reads:

Town: BWS, Tammy, PV (for claim; I'm assuming we'll get an explanation for the lack of shot timing issue)
Lean town: JSU, Cupcake (pending where he's going with all this capsrage)
Null: RG, F&H
Lean scum: magenta, AP, Nacho
Scum: CF

Oh dear lord, notscience. Read the game and put your vote somewhere useful.

Although after all the attention Nacho showered on me in Wicked, I'm feeling a bit slighted here. Not sure what I'd do with Nacho anyways, since his 'reads me right when he's town' and 'makes at least a cursory attempt to lynch me when he's scum' moves are officially out of date.

Also thinking this is town-Nacho. I want to think I'm seeing PV-town here in the way he's presenting his thoughts, but I'm not sold yet. And even though info from a JSU flip is a thing, I really still want to town read them, so I have zero problem lynching a supposed miller who spent absolutely ages trying to lynch Tammy while cheerleading other town mislynches and not voting them. There's a difference between being slow to vote and goading other people into voting in your stead.

So town reads on Nacho, BWS, AP, JSU, Tammy --> scum = CF, magenta, RG...PV/F&H? Not sure about the fourth slot, but I'd lynch any of the first three happily.

All of the times that Penguin has mentioned Nacho in her ISO.

[CarbonFiber]

Penguin, please explain your townread on Nacho in-depth.

[CarbonFiber]

I might go back and check all of his mentions of them but off the top of my head, I said that something DV said was scummy. Nacho responded by telling me to attack that post. This was a while ago at the time when you voted yourself and said that town should lynch you and then I told everyone to lynch me. I also told Nacho in the Neighborhood thread to vote me. He said that he wouldn't, offered a lot of inspirational words, told me how to approach a lot of players and to attack Fox's posting.

Much later, just when he was about to be lynched D4 and Ceph voted him at my request, he asked me whether I found it odd that Ceph relented so quickly and voted him. I guess it is possible he wanted me to think Ceph was town or it is also possible he wanted me to unvote him and attack Ceph again and continue that flame war.

[CarbonFiber]

I might go back and check all of his mentions of them but off the top of my head, I said that something DV said was scummy. Nacho responded by telling me to attack that post. This was a while ago at the time when

you voted yourself and said that town should lynch you

and then I told everyone to lynch me. I also told Nacho in the Neighborhood thread to vote me. He said that he wouldn't, offered a lot of inspirational words, told me how to approach a lot of players and to attack Fox's posting.

Much later, just when he was about to be lynched D4 and Ceph voted him at my request, he asked me whether I found it odd that Ceph relented so quickly and voted him. I guess it is possible he wanted me to think Ceph was town or it is also possible he wanted me to unvote him and attack Ceph again and continue that flame war.

This was at AngryPidgeon btw.

[CarbonFiber]

Going to check Yoloville now.

Also, Tammy how do you feel about AP and JSU right now?

[CarbonFiber]

Also, do you think it's a coincidence that Nacho directed the day-1 lynch onto Orc, of all the lurkers?

No?

I didn't think so either.

VOTE: Magenta

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to come in and say. Nacho's actions at the end of day 1 suddenly make all kinds of sense. I need to review his posts as well for connections, but that's mostly to hunt down the last two because there is no way magenta is town. I do agree with what someone said about Nacho probably thinking his team is in a good spot, because I saw Casso and I know he can not get lynched when he wants to not get lynched.
I said exactly that a few posts earlier.

Also, for the first time, I found something in this game to be happy about. I never figured we'd be able to lynch scum with the rate we were going but we did and that's awesome and I think even if we lose, we are going to go down fighting and not roll over and give scum a perfect win.

My biggest suspect right now is Magenta the great.

1) Nacho's push on Orc D1 smelled so much like a bus especially since Orc could only self-govern D1.

2) Mara's lack of paranoia over Nacho was weird as well as her lack of interactions with other players who read Nacho better in NY169.

So, I wonder why you commented on JSU's post as opposed to mine. The paranoid part of me makes me think you did it because you didn't want to agree with me since you need to keep me as a viable mislynch after the Magenta lynch. This is sort of what I was referring to with you being positional and I don't know if it just your playstyle to be that way and whether you do it as town. Was it intentional on your part to skip over my post?

[CarbonFiber]

Quotefail

Also, do you think it's a coincidence that Nacho directed the day-1 lynch onto Orc, of all the lurkers?

No?

I didn't think so either.

VOTE: Magenta

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to come in and say. Nacho's actions at the end of day 1 suddenly make all kinds of sense. I need to review his posts as well for connections, but that's mostly to hunt down the last two because there is no way magenta is town. I do agree with what someone said about Nacho probably thinking his team is in a good spot, because I saw Casso and I know he can not get lynched when he wants to not get lynched.

I said exactly that a few posts earlier.

Also, for the first time, I found something in this game to be happy about. I never figured we'd be able to lynch scum with the rate we were going but we did and that's awesome and I think even if we lose, we are going to go down fighting and not roll over and give scum a perfect win.

My biggest suspect right now is Magenta the great.

1) Nacho's push on Orc D1 smelled so much like a bus especially since Orc could only self-govern D1.

2) Mara's lack of paranoia over Nacho was weird as well as her lack of interactions with other players who read Nacho better in NY169.

So, I wonder why you commented on JSU's post as opposed to mine. The paranoid part of me makes me think you did it because you didn't want to agree with me since you need to keep me as a viable mislynch after the Magenta lynch. This is sort of what I was referring to with you being positional and I don't know if it just your playstyle to be that way and whether you do it as town. Was it intentional on your part to skip over my post?

[CarbonFiber]

NotScience, how do you feel about Magenta the great?

[CarbonFiber]

Also, I think NotScience and Fox should claim.

[CarbonFiber]

NotScience, how do you feel about Magenta the great?

Same question to Brian.

[CarbonFiber]

Sorry, I feel like I am extremely dim or a five year old. Did you just claim? What is your role?

[CarbonFiber]

Never mind, you said you'd claim after Fox.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, I went through Yoloville (lol at the good old days where Nacho did giant quotestripes, they make me nostalgic).

Spoiler: Yoloville

Subject: /in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[quote="In post 1519, "Nachomamma8"]

Basically, I'd expect confusion from my post and a desire for clarification rather than "DV is scum!", which I think would be more likely from scum.

I don't really like this. DV's opening was easily explainable and this practically sets up people to townread him.

My other scumread is probably Johhog for saying that I'm basically concocting new reasoning for my first post (which means I'm scum or just really strange town and although I'm a little strange, I don't think I'm that much!), which I think is kind of bad, but

And of course his two main scumreads are a wagon that Empire sold him on, and someone who called him scum because of his gambit.

OGML- I think 832 is scummy though.

This is strange and the only townread he decides to attack while calling him town.

but I'm kind of resorting to what I'd do as scum with them and trying to actively look for anything I can attack, and I can't think of anything then either.

What can you find to attack in my ISO now, DV?

Llamarble: I remember liking something about his reaction to the wagon and the stuff about trying to play in a new way felt genuine to me. Other than that, his most recent posts seem a lot more like him trying to work out the game than trying to look town. I don't know if I can explain it properly, but it does feel like more than gut to me.

CES: I think the way he attacks Vi is really town. Not much apart from that, but just generally feels town I guess? I think he may be less involved as scum too actually (from what I remember of Mafia and the Kitties anyway).

OGML- Mainly N's play not matching what I'd expect, and I thought his attack on Empire was very town-like.

Shadoweh- Not much apart from her just saying stuff that I think she'd say as town (I mean just general entertaining Shadoweh-type things). I've never played with her as scum though, so I'm not really sure if I'm able to distinguish that well.

Benmage- I'm worried this may be naive, but I actually think his recent lack of involvement could indicate not-scum. I guess I'm kind of sheeping on him mainly though, as I've heard he has a good scum game. He's another 'generally feels town' person as well.

I know DV can do better than "feels town, feels town, feels town".

And yeah, I probably won't vote for CES.

What happened to the earlier CES read?

Overall though, I still think N's play is not how he'd approach the game as scum (I think there would be more effort put into looking town) and his attack on Empire is another thing that I think is townish.

rereads N, doesn't change reasoning even a little bit

Actually, to those on the CES wagon, why him over Nacho?

No responses...

Would anyone have a problem with me hammering?

Doesn't matter, goes for the hammering anyways. It's almost like he was looking for someone to give him an excuse to hammer, but decided to go through with it anyways.[/quote]
Subject: /in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

Ok everyone, I think it's time for a...

S

C

U

M

R

E

A

D

C

O

N

T

E

S

T

!!!!!

Here's how it will work:

You each get a... certain period of time to convince DeasVail that you have the best scumread! The winner gets the fabulous prize of...

DeasVail's absolutely amazing persuasive skills, as well as his vote, on their side!

Your time starts...

NOW!



Note: This IS a legitimately fun contest, despite what any of you may think.

(Deas loves having people give him excuses to jump on wagons as scum.)

Some things I was thinking about:

1) Nacho's DV case came close to deadline. I don't think he wanted DV lynched in any way and I think he was playing at the general suspicion on DV and thinking that pushing in a new direction would help him avoid the noose as well as distance from DV. I agree with Llamarble that Nacho is a good enough scum player that he knows that the best way to avoid a lynch is to push in a different direction.

2) Another interesting thing: CES and Nacho were both scum that were crosswagoned. Instead of pushing CES, he pushed in a whole new direction (at his last remaining scumbuddy) which after both lynches might have given the feeling that since Nacho/CES were scum/scum, Nacho's new push must be onto town so that he and CES can avoid getting lynched. I didn't read the whole game but how certain was everyone else at that point regarding CES? Do you think it was inevitable that both Nacho/CES would have winded up dead pretty soon?

So, compared to here, he didn't make a show of going after DV. Mostly, he had DV as a scumread that he never pushed. I really don't understand his motivation in D1 to come out saying that he isn't townreading DV and I have no idea if that suggests Nacho-DV scumteam or scum Nacho trying a different tack with town-DV. If Fox were town, I think Nacho as scum would have expected blowback D1 because he should be well aware that DV's natural response is to suspect people that attack him. I wouldn't discount it being a distancing tactic early D1 though. Nacho enjoys being scum with DV as he said in the endgame of Yoloville and might try the distancing thing if they both wound up drawing scum.

The other player I wanted to investigate his interactions more in depth with is Notscience.

I'd like your thoughts on Nacho-Notscience interactions and how you feel about them in this game. I played a game before where Nacho (in a hydra with Bert) was scum with NotScience (it was a Mentor-Mentee game though (see the ruleset if you haven't played one before) where if the Mentor (NotScience) is lynched, the game ends, but if Nacho was lynched, it wouldn't). Here's the scumQT and here's a link to the game.

Some quotes in the scum QT from Nacho to Notscience:

i'm gonna clog the fuck out of F-16's metadar by actually being batshit insane; the more that I can focus attention of everyone on me, the less attention they will pay to you. meanwhile, i want you to bus the living fuck out of me. it won't be hard because I will be being erratic as fuck, and I'll try to avoid the lynch for as long as possible with as much charisma as possible and as little logic as possible, which means that i might last longer than I should

but I want you screaming at me, I want you going "no way in hell town nacho would act like this, he's scum as fuck", make cases on me every 5 pages, threaten to replace out, pull literally every tool out of your arsenal to make this the WIFOM-carnival of lunacy this game deserves to be

But if you read the game, NotScience didn't actually bus him much at all. Brian was in the game too btw, he was town with me.

[CarbonFiber]

So, I don't think it looks similar at all here. He kinda avoided giving comments on Fox Hound and sort of brushed his suspicion of them under the rug which would be more consistent with them being town who Nacho wanted to make look like his scumbuddy.

[CarbonFiber]

Magenta The Great, please clear this stuff up:

1) What is a "pedophilic" /roleblock/rolestop? What does the pedophilic mean?
2) Do you both roleblock and rolestop your target or do you get to choose one?
3) Who did you target each night of the game?

[CarbonFiber]

Beli, during N3, were you told that your action failed? Can you go over the messages you received from the mod each night and any differences there might have been.

[CarbonFiber]

Cephrir, I see you online. Come and claim.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, so are you a child/adult/beast? And which game is your character from?

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I think it is a good idea for everyone to claim child/adult/beast as well so we can keep track of all the info. I am compiling a list of actions and want to make sure.

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, and also male/female and whether you are a citizen of something. For instance, mine says I am a citizen of Aldurant.

[CarbonFiber]

Your gender should be in your role PM.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, AP are you a child/adult/beast? And Male/Female?

[CarbonFiber]

If your name has any question marks next to you, please answer whatever it is. If I made a mistake, let me know. I'll post the full list once I have everything.

Spoiler: Incomplete List of Claims

DEAD

1 Lord Business

was lynched day one.
Name of character: Kreed Grafyte
Role Claim: Town Sealed Persona-Roleblocker (Possibility of re-entry into game)
Age: (unclaimed)
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of Hearts

2 Mac

was Killed Night 1
Name of character: Ricardo Soldato
Role Claim: Town Paranoid Bodyguard (also rolestops target)
Age: (unclaimed)
Gender: Male
Game: Tales Of Innocence

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman + natirasha)

was Killed Night 1 (by vig)
Name of character: Sword Dancer
Role Claim: Town Battleseeker (A modified gladiator)
If they battle a beast, it's a normal gladiate; no modifications.
If they battle an adult, and win the duel, they can choose whether or not they want to govern the person they gladiate (and the day ends in a no lynch)
If they battle a child, the duel ends with either their lynch or the child hitting L-2 (the game returns to normal if the child hits L-2)
Age: Beast?
Gender: (unclaimed)
Game: Tales of Symphonia

4 MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK)

was lynched day two
Name of character: Ruca Milda
Role Claim: Town Bulletproof Re-incarnated god, Voteless till 9P
Age: (unclaimed)
Gender: Dual Gender
Game: Tales of Innocence

5 Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn)

was killed night two
Name of character: Tear Grants
Role Claim: Town Evolving JOAT
Age: (unclaimed)
Gender: Female
Game: Tales of the Abyss

6 CupcakePanda

was lynched Day Three
Name of character: Chelsea Torn
Role Claim: Town Modified Delayer, (Has a oneshot magnet ability: target one person during the game and have their actions redirected to him). He says "Nag doesn't work on Beasts" in Post 6016. Not sure what that means.
Age: Child
Gender: Female
Game: Tales of Destiny
N1: Targeted MastinSSK
N2: Delayed AngryPidgeon's action

7 Nachomamma8

was lynched Day Four
Name of character: Arietta
Role Claim: Mafia Wild Child Beastmaster (Alternating commuter-roleblocker)
Age: Counts as both Child and Beast
Gender: Female
Game: Tales of The Abyss
N1: Likely commuted
N2: Likey used a roleblock
N3: Likely commuted

8 PeregrineV

was killed Night Four
Name of character: Yuri Lowell
Role Claim: Town Lone Wolf (1X Delayed-Flip Vig)
Age: (unclaimed)
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of Vesperia
N1: Killed Rancid Broderick Drake

ALIVE

1 CarbonFiber

Name of character: Luke
Role Claim: Town Replica (Miller) + Neighborizer
Age: Adult
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of the Abyss
D1: Neighborize Tales of the Abyss (CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, Nachomamma8, Yggdra Union)
D2: Neighborize Tales of Xilia (Titan, Penguin Alien)
D3: Neighborize Tales of Rebirth (Stalin)
D4: Neighborize Tales of Vesperia (Magenta, PeregrineV)
D5: Haven't taken an action yet

2 AngryPidgeon

Name of character: Calcedny Arcome
Role Claim: Town Lawful Commander - Modified Cop (Submits three names, mafia team selects one to get either replica or not replica on, becomes VT after there are nine or fewer players left in the game). On any one night he can enhance his normal ability. He has an airship called Lianheit and on any one night he can also keep his target in jail overnight in his ship.
Age: ?????
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of Hearts
N1: Targeted {Peregrine, Orcinus, and Nacho} no result. (Nacho must have commuted)
N2: Targeted {Peregrine, Orcinus, and Stalin} - Stalin, Not a Replica
N3: Targeted {Stalin, Magenta, and RG} - "Action Failed" (Also used the jail ability which he knows was used on Stalin)
N4: Targeted {Peregrine, JSU, and RG} - PV, Not a Replica

3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon + Desperado)

Name of character: Van Grants
Role Claim: Instructor Master (Even Night Tracker). Their ability will fail against replicas.
Age: Adult
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of the Abyss
N2: AP visited Stalin
N4: No result on Penguin

4 Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dayne)

Name of character: Milla Maxwell
Role Claim: Town Determined Warrior (Anti-roleblocker). Had to decide before the game started who she was going to attach herself to and can't change it unless the person chosen first dies.
Age: ?????
Gender: Female
Game: Tales of Xilia
N0: Chose Nacho
N4: Chose ?????

5 Belisarius

Name of character: ?????
Role Claim: Amnesiac Follower - Follows a player and sends results to another player. Checked with Cabd about whether role has target restrictions that weren't made explicit. And the answer is no, that he would make that sort of restriction known to the player in their role PM.
Age: Child
Gender: ?????
Game: Tales of Rebirth
N1: Followed AP and sends result to CF (CF got a message saying that AP did nothing)
N2: Followed katsuki and sent the results to orcinus. Got back a message from the mod that role explicitly failed on night 2
N3: Followed DV and sent the results to JSU, but got no report
N4: Followed CF and sent the results where???? No Result/Action Failed

6 MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)

Name of character: Ragou
Role Claim: Town D1 Self-Governor + Pedophilic roleblock/stop
Age: ?????
Gender: ?????
Game: Tales of Vesperia
N1: AngryPidgeon
N2: ?????
N3: ?????
N4: "Who I targeted last night should be pretty fucking obvious at this point and with the revelation of this role, I don't know how you think RG is lying, or why he would be doing so if he was scum."

7 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir + DV)

Name of character: Tenebrae
Role Claim: Flavor Cop, also **can't be roleblocked by children**
Age: Beast
Gender: Male
Game: Tales of Symphonia
N1: Yggdra Union - Evolving Fonic JOAT (no idea why fonic isn't in their flip)
N2: RG - Artist
N3: CF - (they were blocked)
N4: PV - (Ability did succeed)

8 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies + notscience) - Full claim please

9 Penguin_alien - Full claim please

Failed Actions/Roles not working as they should be

:
N2: Katsuki's action failed (if AP is town)
N2: Beli's action failed

N3: AngryPidgeon's action failed
N3: Beli sending a report to JSU wasn't received (Accounted for by AP jailing Beli)
N3: FoxHound's investigation on CF was blocked

N4: Beli's action failed
N4: JSU got no result on Penguin

As far as accounting for the failed actions go:
1) We know that Nacho probably roleblocked someone N2.
2) Mafia might have multiple roleblockers.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, just to be clear, you should have visited me N4 and found out my role because that's what Fox did N3? And it turns out you got nothing?

Do you think Fox is lying about their role/night actions? From your POV, they correctly found out that you were an Artist. Where do you think the issue is?

[CarbonFiber]

Sorry, I wasn't getting through the typos clearly. You made RG unblockable?

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I get it now. I'm still not sure I buy that Fox targeted no one N3 and then lied about it. It is possible but unlikely regardless of their affiliation.

You said on D4 that you thought that Fox was town but might end up voting them anyway. Why?

[CarbonFiber]

Magenta, does your roleblock stop kills as well or just non killing actions?

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, thoughts on these Nacho posts from the #Yoloville scum QT: http://quicktopic.com/50/H/DqKBwjYaap4u

ces i will bus the fuck out of you if you so much as touch deas
i will bus you to the motherfucking ground

On the one hand, I see his immediate attack on DV weird and on the other, I wonder if it is WIFOM because he knows you would look at their interactions in that game since you've seen them as scum together.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I have a few other thoughts:

1) Unless Penguin is claiming cop (I don't think she is but

Penguin, please get in here and claim now

), I actually seriously doubt AP and Fox are in a scumteam because my role confirms multiple cops. AP's claim actually makes a LOT of sense as town. His role is incredibly weak (unless he picks three scum, it is unlikely he'll get a guilty), and AP LOVES fake-claiming guilties on townies and his restriction on his role not working with less than 9 players is so non-AP-scum-like but I was reading him as scum-scum-scum and Mastin thought he was scum so I am leaning more towards Mastin being wrong at this time. I am fairly certain that Muffin was Definitely wrong about his flow bussing theory because role-wise, I can't see AP-Fox scumteam.

2) Magenta roleblocking an Amnesiac Follower is just WTF. That plus the lack of interactions with me/Tammy/Pieguyn about Nacho felt off too. Magenta is the one I feel best about being scum. I think Penguin is a good bet for the second with AP/RG/Fox being the third. I might be wrong about Penguin but I don't see how she got that Nacho townread. Hey, Tammy if you are still here, do you find anything off about Penguin's Nacho townread after misreading me and Nacho in Wicked? Also, her certainty of a read on me after the Wicked misread?

[CarbonFiber]

Pigey
Gary
Stalin
Stalin

Wait. Am I reading this right?

You're claiming to continuously block Stalin, a claimed ascetic follower?

Nevermind.

What was the revelation that you had that made you say "nevermind?" I am still scratching my head as to why Magenta has roleblocked a claimed ascetic follower on N3 and N4.

[CarbonFiber]

That's what I was told.

And I stand by my accusation of Fox being lying scum.

Okay, but are you down with lynching Magenta today and coming back to that later?

[CarbonFiber]

If you're wrong, we go to Lylo with an unresolved CC.

What do you have on Magenta?

Well, the thing is I don't see it as an unresolved CC. I think it is possible one of you/AP/Fox are scum just through sheer POE as I am strong townreading everyone else.

Magenta case in a nutshell

:

1) Mara was fooled in a grand fashion by Nacho in NY169: Mara's EPIC XD Failure to read Nacho where she persistently townread Nacho and was left alive late game as a confirmed town Mason. Tammy, Pieguyn and I were scumreading him in that same game and Mara never thought to interact with any of us to refine her read.

2) Mara lacked paranoia of Nacho and seems too sure about her read (basically what Tammy said earlier).

3) Nacho pushing Orc lynch D1 as a feel-good lynch when we now know that Orc was a D1-only governor feels really slimy (basically Tammy fucking called it as Nacho bussing Orc).

AP will say I am buddying with Tammy again but meh. If this flips scum as I think it will, there's only one person I can really credit for this lynch so yeah.

4) Magenta roleblocking Stalin is seriously scum motivated. Although tbf, I don't know why they would claim it. They could have just shut up and done nothing. But then again, everyone was suspicious of Magenta so they might have thought WIFOM would help, I don't know. But their night actions still don't make sense from a town POV.

[CarbonFiber]

Now that I think of it, I don't know. It is vaguely similar to why I didn't see Katsuki as scum, what's the scum motivation to lie?

So, with Fox, I am not saying it is impossible that they are scum but even if they are, why do you think they would lie about their role/night action? We know that they are not lying about their role entirely since they know you are an Artist. Saying that one of their buddies have their role is a bit of a stretch since scum tend to claim their own roles (if they want to be truthful) as opposed to their partner's roles which makes no sense. They could be a flavorcop that lied about visiting me but why would they? If they visited no one and are X-shot, they could have just said so instead of planting a useless lie.

[CarbonFiber]

Magenta case in a nutshell:

1) Mara was fooled in a grand fashion by Nacho in NY169: Mara's EPIC XD Failure to read Nacho where she persistently townread Nacho and was left alive late game as a confirmed town Mason. Tammy, Pieguyn and I were scumreading him in that same game and Mara never thought to interact with any of us to refine her read.

2) Mara lacked paranoia of Nacho and seems too sure about her read (basically what Tammy said earlier).

3) Nacho pushing Orc lynch D1 as a feel-good lynch when we now know that Orc was a D1-only governor feels really slimy (basically Tammy fucking called it as Nacho bussing Orc). AP will say I am buddying with Tammy again but meh. If this flips scum as I think it will, there's only one person I can really credit for this lynch so yeah.

4) Magenta roleblocking Stalin is seriously scum motivated. Although tbf, I don't know why they would claim it. They could have just shut up and done nothing. But then again, everyone was suspicious of Magenta so they might have thought WIFOM would help, I don't know. But their night actions still don't make sense from a town POV.

This is pretty convincing.

But if I give you Mara, I want Fox's head.

I'm not ruling out Fox as a possibility and I will consider them. I am curious, what convinced you now that didn't convince you the first time?

[CarbonFiber]

I am curious, what convinced you now that didn't convince you the first time?

Their claimed actions.

Okay, but why did you say "nevermind" as opposed to continue to press them on why they blocked the claimed Amnesiac follower?

[CarbonFiber]

I asking about Magenta. My case on Magenta was a rehash of the points that me, JSU, and Tammy and already put forth at the beginning of the day. So, if you were reading closely, you'd have already been convinced. But then you asked for what I had on Magenta and I just repeated those points and you said you were convinced. I want to know why repeating the same points a second time convinced you when they originally hadn't.

[CarbonFiber]

I do, and when I get done doing what I need to do for the night I'll try to talk about it.

It's still part of me kinda thinking I need to be the lynch.

You are saying you want to be the lynch because PA could be scum that placed a delayed kill on you. If that's a possibility and we suspect her, she should be the lynch. If you are asking to be lynched because you don't want to risk lynching town-Penguin, you really shouldn't be because Penguin is town, then we know she didn't put out a delayed kill and there is no reason to lynch you.

[CarbonFiber]

Am I talking to NotScience or Brian right now?

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, I wondered because you weren't speaking in walls. Who do you think is the scumteam right now?

[CarbonFiber]

Brian, your demeanor just seems off to me for some reason. You seem so sure that Fox are scum (I don't think that's unusual considering I was screaming from the rooftops that Rancid were scum when they claimed my role), but you seen okay with lynching Magenta (who you don't have a strong scumread on) instead of Fox as long as I give you Fox tomorrow. But you've only negotiated with me. What if we're wrong on Magenta and it's LYLO tomorrow and some other townie (not me) votes you as opposed to Fox, it is game over. I'm still hoping we were on the right track and Magenta is scum and you are town, but I am not absolutely certain. If you are scum with AP/Penguin, it would make sense to mislynch Magenta today and lynch Fox in LYLO once I say I would vote them over you. And maybe Nacho didn't care too much about his lynch because he knew he was setting up a Magenta lynch to follow.

[CarbonFiber]

I am doing my best to help you figure it out but it would help if your push actually made sense. As for why you couldn't copy their role. I don't know. But it is far from a guarantee that Fox is scum.

Not sure, but I'm thinking Fox could be scum here.

You list out your actions here and then say that you aren't sure. What changed since then? They had claimed to have visited me and then you "cc'd" them in this post but you weren't sure. So, I am not sure why you don't understand

my

lack of certainty now.

Okay, just to be clear, you should have visited me N4 and found out my role because that's what Fox did N3? And it turns out you got nothing?

Do you think Fox is lying about their role/night actions? From your POV, they correctly found out that you were an Artist. Where do you think the issue is?

No? If my target uses a night action (role PM says active ability), then I get to copy that action and use it myself on the next night. So, I was supposed to get what I think is a rolecop to use on D4. It doesn't say I have to do what they did with it (and I wouldn't have bothered using it to check you, there are other unclaimed/need to be confirmed roles out there).

But my action didn't fail as far as I'm aware of and I got nothing. Just an empty PM and a burned shot. And Cabd told me that as long as MY action succeeds, it doesn't matter what happened to my targets actions.

The issue with Fox's claims is him claiming to have targeted someone N3

.

So, here you bring up your issue with him and you are not all excited about it or anything.

Errrrr. So you knew you were blocked on N2 because you still had your 1-shot left? You didn't after N3, but you also didn't get to take any action? They knew your role name though so the only way they are BSing is if they are scum and someone else on their team is actually a flavor cop? Which seems..unlikely?

Something interfered with my shot on N2. That's the only reason why I got to keep my shot. If I target someone that doesn't have a night action, that just burns my shot and I get nothing. You claimed to have tried to cop three people that night. So if nothing had interfered with my shot, I would have had a 3p cop check or whatever your role is to use on N3. Since I got to keep my shot, I know something interfered with my action. Plus, Cabd told me my 'role failed.'

I used my shot again on Fox N3. They claimed to have targeted Falcon. If their claim is true, I should have been able to copy and use their night action on N4. Instead, I didn't get anything. Which means they're lying or there's some mystery effect I'm not considering that you think is in this game.

Yes, they're right about me being an Artist. Which makes me think they're claiming something like flavorcop or rolecop.

If Fox is scum, then they probably have one on their team.

But that doesn't mean they have to be one themselves.

The bolded is a pretty big stretch and it concerns me that you are putting it forth as the most likely possibility. If someone else on their team was a flavorcop, don't you think that player would be the one to claim that role?

You said on D4 that you thought that Fox was town but might end up voting them anyway. Why?

I thought they could be town. But it was because I was tunneling the Nacho/AP/JSU scumteam I had in mind. And I wasn't reading their posts. But outside of those three, I thought that one of PA/Fox could have been the fourth member.

I was suspicious of Fox, but I had limited information. There was always the possibility of them being an even-night role like what JSU claimed to be or some other reason that might explain my role failing. But they're not claiming that here.

You answer my question about Fox but still no footnote saying "but they are scum now so let's lynch them." This only happens much later when I call you out on it.

Pigey
Gary
Stalin
Stalin

Wait. Am I reading this right?

You're claiming to continuously block Stalin, a claimed ascetic follower?

Nevermind.

What was the revelation that you had that made you say "nevermind?" I am still scratching my head as to why Magenta has roleblocked a claimed ascetic follower on N3 and N4.

That they claimed some sort of combined JK. I could maybe see them wanting to protect a townie if I squint hard enough, and that's why I said nevermind.

AP already claimed JK on them earlier. So it could just be them looking for a convenient excuse.

Also, I straight up CC'ed Fox's night action.

Why is it one of AP/RG/Fox instead of one of RG/Fox?

This felt like a pretty weak push for someone that you are cc'ing.

That's what I was told.

And I stand by my accusation of Fox being lying scum.

If you're wrong, we go to Lylo with an unresolved CC.

What do you have on Magenta?

Well, the thing is I don't see it as an unresolved CC.

Why? What's the issue here?

I hope you understand, that regardless of what happens with Magenta (who could be scum, and I wouldn't mind lynching), I'm going to continue to push my CC against Fox.

I asking about Magenta. My case on Magenta was a rehash of the points that me, JSU, and Tammy and already put forth at the beginning of the day. So, if you were reading closely, you'd have already been convinced. But then you asked for what I had on Magenta and I just repeated those points and you said you were convinced. I want to know why repeating the same points a second time convinced you when they originally hadn't.

I don't know. Wasn't paying attention the first time.

Fox is still scum

.

You have a high degree of certainty that Fox is scum while at the same time considering a Magenta lynch. I don't know where this certainty came from. When you cc'd them, you seem unsure and I can't follow how this gradual buildup of certainty came to the point that you are now so sure that Fox is scum. You have the same information now as you did when you first cc'd them.

Fox.

Don't care who the other two are. One step at a time. I really believe we have scum here. Could be Magenta or PA I guess. Can't be more than two of AP/JSU/Beli, so there's definitely at least one town there. Maybe all three are town. I don't think it's you/Titan.

Right now, I just want to lynch Fox. They're scum to me.

Again, the same certainty here. And the timing of it is odd. I keep pushing you and now you decided to vote them. Unlike me, I didn't peg you for someone who is really slow to vote, especially on cc's.

Vote: Fox

When you guys stop circle-jerking with your "I just don't understand why they'd lie about their action or role if they were scum," come talk to me.

Brian, your demeanor just seems off to me for some reason. You seem so sure that Fox are scum (I don't think that's unusual considering I was screaming from the rooftops that Rancid were scum when they claimed my role), but you seen okay with lynching Magenta (who you don't have a strong scumread on) instead of Fox as long as I give you Fox tomorrow. But you've only negotiated with me. What if we're wrong on Magenta and it's LYLO tomorrow and some other townie (not me) votes you as opposed to Fox, it is game over. I'm still hoping we were on the right track and Magenta is scum and you are town, but I am not absolutely certain. If you are scum with AP/Penguin, it would make sense to mislynch Magenta today and lynch Fox in LYLO once I say I would vote them over you. And maybe Nacho didn't care too much about his lynch because he knew he was setting up a Magenta lynch to follow.

Okay, now you understand why I only want to lynch Fox.

Thank you.

I don't give a shit about anyone else right now as long as Fox dies. I don't see any reason why they could be town. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, Fox is scum. If there is anything wrong with what I'm seeing, you should be helping me figure it out. Not sitting there with your "oh Brian, do you want to lynch Magenta and go for Fox tomorrow?"

I'm trying to figure you out and track your thought process.

[CarbonFiber]

Falcon, no matter what happens today, YOU WILL be lynching one of Fox/me. But if I get lynched, I WILL flip town and YOU will be lynching Fox afterwards.

This isn't a discussion. This is an ultimatum.

I'd be more convinced if this happened very quickly after you cc'd them as opposed to after being prodded about it.

I still don't understand why you think it is likely that they are claiming a buddy's role even allowing for the fact that people are often uncharacteristically certain about role results that they get.

[CarbonFiber]

VOTE: titan

serious vote is serious

Not happening. Voting you would be against my wincon and I'm not going to play against my wincon. Try again!

[CarbonFiber]

And the reason isn't something you are willing to say openly?

I don't want to lynch you because I need your help to solve this game.

[CarbonFiber]

I mean if you don't want to lynch Penguin just yet, that's fine. We could lynch different scum suspects and lynch you later on when the game's about to end. I am not really sure why or how lynching you is going to help so I don't know if I can go more in-depth into it.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, it's going to be okay. Don't worry about posting analysis or anything. I know how this game has turned out and I understand why you feel lost. If you don't want to post, that's fine. I'm about 100% convinced you are town right now so you could prod-dodge for the rest of the day and no one will vote you. Don't feel obligated to help either. You've done more than anyone else did this game (1000+ genuine scumhunting posts). You've done more than enough.

I am still not sure I understand your role. If Penguin placed a delayed kill on you, it makes sense to lynch her and not you, doesn't it?

As for whether I think Penguin is scum, I am leaning scum, yeah based on what I know of her play. I am not sure though and I was looking forward to hearing what you wanted to say about her.

[CarbonFiber]

I'd be more convinced if this happened very quickly after you cc'd them as opposed to after being prodded about it.

You're seriously giving me shit about this

I asking about Magenta. My case on Magenta was a rehash of the points that me, JSU, and Tammy and already put forth at the beginning of the day. So, if you were reading closely, you'd have already been convinced. But then you asked for what I had on Magenta and I just repeated those points and you said you were convinced. I want to know why repeating the same points a second time convinced you when they originally hadn't.

I don't know. Wasn't paying attention the first time. Fox is still scum.

no it's not trust me.

if you think there's even the slightest chance penguin is scum you need to lynch me.

^When shit like this continues to happen in this game?

Well, Tammy is functionally an Innocent Child so I don't feel the need to comment on it. Not sure what your point is there.

Seriously, Falcon? I still stand by the inconsistencies between my role and Fox's claim.

But until Titan seriously explains to me what the fuck is going on, I still think Fox is scum. Because I can't think of any logical explanation how my role's result and Fox's N3 action can coexist.

I get that the inconsistency hasn't been explained. I still think a better way to go would be Magenta.

We know Titan/Stalin/JSU aren't scum. I'm not scum and you seem to agree. That leaves five players out of which are three scum. One of {AP,Fox} at the most but not both based on my role saying that there are multiple cops. Two of {RG, Penguin, Magenta}. So, it actually makes more sense to lynch Magenta.
We know AP/Fox aren't scum together

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, and if you don't believe that JSU is conftown, it is still one scum at most from {JSU, AP, Fox} since we know there is more than one cop.

[CarbonFiber]

What do you think of the rest of my logic?

[CarbonFiber]

Then shouldn't we lynch Penguin? I don't care about the extra kill if we lynch scum. If she does happen to be town, then there is no extra kill because you are saying it is possible she placed one on you. (Unless I am misunderstanding how her role works).

Also, since she hasn't shown up, do you mind claiming what her actual role is?

And you said before that town-me would want to talk to you about your frustration. You were right.

[CarbonFiber]

All of that is still dependent on Penguin being scum. So, if we lynch Penguin and she is scum, we won't be at LYLO tomorrow. We'll still be a lynch away from LYLO. If she flips scum, then we can revisit this conversation. If she is town, then she didn't give you anything and there is no extra kill. So, we have 9 players: 3 scum, 6 town. Two scenarios:

1) Penguin is scum: We lynch Penguin. It will be 2-6. Scum nightkill someone. Titan dies through an extra kill. We will be at 6 players (2-4) MYLO. That's not too bad. If you are not dead yet, then we'll be at 7 players (5 town, 2 scum). If you suspect you'll die upon using it, then don't use it.

2) Penguin is town: We've just mislynched. We will be at 3-4. LYLO. There'll be no extra kills. We scumhunt to find scum.

I am still not seeing the benefit to lynching you over Penguin. Check my math.

[CarbonFiber]

Unless you are saying you don't want to risk mislynching town-Penguin from a personal/emotional standpoint and would rather lynch yourself just to avoid it.

[CarbonFiber]

I won't discount Magenta being town and it would make sense for Nacho to die quietly if that's the case. Perhaps it is best to not rush into a lynch then and consider all options. What are your reads on me and JSU at this point?

[CarbonFiber]

The game hasn't been great I know and it is probably one I want to forget soon after it is after. But watch this, it is pretty awesome.

[CarbonFiber]

* soon after it is over.

[CarbonFiber]

Do you want to talk about it?

[CarbonFiber]

I should head to bed as well. It is 4:30 AM where I am. I don't know what I am doing playing mafia at this time.

Pedit: (or what Cabd is doing)

[CarbonFiber]

Magenta, so you are basically claiming modified jailkeeper since you roleblock and protect your target. In addition to that, you also prevent other player's roles from working on your target.

I find it really OP and it is very similar to Mac's role as well.

You also haven't really responded to the case on you and it is worrying that you are not really addressing my concerns beyond quoting the case and voting me for not voting you when you know based on NY169 that I am a slow voter. I'd be shocked if you are town here.

VOTE: magenta_thegreat

Brian, Beli, let's do this first and get back to the others later.

[CarbonFiber]

You said earlier that you were willing to compromise. What changed now? (Except that I called you out on compromising?)

[CarbonFiber]

Whoa, calm down, Brian. This is what I was referring to:

Magenta case in a nutshell:

1) Mara was fooled in a grand fashion by Nacho in NY169: Mara's EPIC XD Failure to read Nacho where she persistently townread Nacho and was left alive late game as a confirmed town Mason. Tammy, Pieguyn and I were scumreading him in that same game and Mara never thought to interact with any of us to refine her read.

2) Mara lacked paranoia of Nacho and seems too sure about her read (basically what Tammy said earlier).

3) Nacho pushing Orc lynch D1 as a feel-good lynch when we now know that Orc was a D1-only governor feels really slimy (basically Tammy fucking called it as Nacho bussing Orc). AP will say I am buddying with Tammy again but meh. If this flips scum as I think it will, there's only one person I can really credit for this lynch so yeah.

4) Magenta roleblocking Stalin is seriously scum motivated. Although tbf, I don't know why they would claim it. They could have just shut up and done nothing. But then again, everyone was suspicious of Magenta so they might have thought WIFOM would help, I don't know. But their night actions still don't make sense from a town POV.

This is pretty convincing.

But if I give you Mara, I want Fox's head

.

[CarbonFiber]

Where the hell is foxhound. Can the people who actually give a shit about this situation have a power hour and figure out what exactly is going down? Its like Fox is mostly apathetic to this all going down, RG is convinced their role works a certain way that seems unlikely, and I have no idea what CF thinks of RG's whole spheal right now, but Im not going to deal with what happens if we lynch Fox and they are town unless we are beyond any doubt that Rg is just making this shit up in that case.

I'm here and I've been trying to get to the bottom of this for quite a few rl days now so.

I am not sure what the scum motivation for RG would be if they are scum to hard cc another player a day away from LYLO.

But then I try to look at it from a town POV, and I just can't follow the reasoning of them saying that one of Fox's scumbuddies is a flavor cop. But okay, even if I buy that town-Brian can come up with that reasoning (using my reaction to Rancid as a baseline and realizing that people will go to great lengths to push when they have role results incriminating a target), I still don't get the initial hesitation and the sudden certainty about Fox being scum.

[CarbonFiber]

The above post feels very town though.

[CarbonFiber]

But Fox seriously needs to get in here and offer their take on the situation.

[CarbonFiber]

I'd like to hear your off the cuff thoughts right now even if you dont like them yet.

Off the cuff: Scum have daytalk. This would be very easy to coordinate in a scum/scum situation.

I guess I could see it? ITs sort of making me want to lynch outside them.

The thing weirding me out is Fox's general apathy and RGs flip-flop on how important this is to him.

Why does the possibility of it being scum-scum make you want to lynch outside of them?

[CarbonFiber]

AP, why do you want to lynch outside RG/Fox if you think it is scum v scum?

[CarbonFiber]

Ah, okay. That makes more sense.

[CarbonFiber]

Since we are all agreed that Magenta is scum, AP, how do you feel about lynching Magenta today?

I have no idea yet what to make of the cc's. All I know is I have a stunningly strong scumread on Magenta based on Mara's post about Nacho not to mention other interactions.

[CarbonFiber]

Also, Penguin it will be awesome if you show up and place your vote somewhere useful.

[CarbonFiber]

@ Brian, so here's my deal: I will consider your case on Fox tomorrow, really really consider it if you help me lynch Magenta today. There are many more votes on Magenta right now and you agree with my case and it is really quite obvious that they are scum here. I know that you think Fox is scum but think about it from the POV of someone who doesn't know whether you or Fox are lying and realize that from the POV of the rest of the town, Magenta is the better lynch. I wanted to lynch Fox D4 but we worked together and went for Nacho instead. Let's do it again and go for Magenta.

[CarbonFiber]

Penguin, what happened to your suspicion of me?

And also, if they self-hammer, then GOOD. We have a scum lynch. 324 pages. I could give a shit for more discussion to be entirely frank.

[CarbonFiber]

Vote now and indulge my impatience to see a second scum lynch and I'll send you and Cabd a giant vase of exotic flowers.

[CarbonFiber]

There you go!

[CarbonFiber]

Brian, Beli, AP, hammer's all yours. I want to see who gets it first and it'll be awesome if we get it tonight.

[CarbonFiber]

I thought I did. Our role name is town replica.

[CarbonFiber]

I am waiting on RG to post and crossvote. I am 100% confident Titan and JSU are town and I know I am town. So, {3 scum, 1 town} in AP, Fox, RG, Penguin. I'll post more thoughts after they vote.

[CarbonFiber]

What do you make of RG's vote on you?

[CarbonFiber]

Angry Pidgeon.

Nachomamma8.

magenta_thegreat.

Red Gyarados.

There is your scumteam.

Good to know for amusement purposes.

[CarbonFiber]

thank tlaloc peng is town this time.

more in a bit.

Should I trust this or be super arrogant about my own read?

Ffery's advice is to always be arrogant so I'm probably going to get Penguin lynched somewhere down the line.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, so I thought about this enough times and in several different permutations and combinations and I am pleased to announce that the receiver of my vote today will be The Fox and The Hound for several reasons:

1) NotScience if he really is scum has put up a pretty fantastic performance of his "obvtownness" and every time he posts, tonally he feels town. I have concerns (I'd be lying if I said I didn't), I am concerned that he is willing to write Penguin off as town. I am concerned that Brian's read on Mastin became more and more opaque as the day went on, I am concerned that Brian so strongly believes the Fox are lying about their night action and that some other scum have the role that they do. And not many of Brian's posts screamed obvtown. I do like the way he sorted me out and I do like how he townread both and PV earlier. He could be buddying me but I am thinking he is more likely than Fox Hound to be scum. I don't like his maneuvering around the Magenta wagon but on the other hand, I also don't see how a lot of their play makes sense as scum.

2) Cephrir's early posts in the game felt different from his posts in NY169. I guess I positionally agreed with a lot of them but I do feel that everything he is doing is positional and meant to fit a narrative. BRO is right that most of his initial posts are buddying Tammy and I agree with Tammy's early D1 concerns that Fox were being manipulative. The carefully crafted structure of their posts, the way they took the positions that they took, attacked the people that it would be popular to attack all feels like a massively well-crafted scum game. It is agenda-driven.

3) DV's attack on me for trying to figure him out contrasted sharply with the way NotScience tried to work with me. This may be based on playstyle and it somewhat makes me feel bad to compare and contrast here but I'd feel less bad if RG runs away with this game than FoxHound who I found overwhelmingly scummier than I did RG throughout the game. If they are town and the scumteam is RG/Penguin/AP, well I think they played pretty well. Sure AP had the GF thing going for him but overall, nice performance.

If you are town, then sorry everyone for screwing this up. I thought about this quite a bit and overall if I had to pick one more town out of AP/Fox/RG/Penguin, I probably wouldn't pick Fox.

VOTE: The Fox and The Hound

[CarbonFiber]

Oh, and Brian, I'm giving you Fox today but I want Penguin tomorrow.

[CarbonFiber]

I'm town, Tammy. I'm fucking TOWN and I'm not evil enough to put you on a guilt trip for pegging me as scum.

Oh god, I knew I sucked this game at looking town but

that

horrible?

W/e, I'll

UNVOTE:

for now since you don't like it but I expect you to pick up the pace and do something tomorrow or whenever you are out of V/LA and can find time for this game. If I'm wrong about Fox, there is only one possibility that makes sense which is an RG/AP/Penguin team and they haven't hammered because Penguin hasn't been online since my vote.

[CarbonFiber]

for now since you don't like it but I expect you to pick up the pace and do something tomorrow or whenever you are out of V/LA and can find time for this game. If I'm wrong about Fox, there is only one possibility that makes sense which is an RG/AP/Penguin team and they haven't hammered because Penguin hasn't been online since my vote.

that logic applies for any team with PA on it.

That made sense in my head where Tammy is a mod confirmed innocent child treestump and JSU are masons with me.

[CarbonFiber]

So, AP: any reason you posted plenty in the Speakeasy thread and elsewhere since my vote and unvote but no posts in here in the in-between time?

[CarbonFiber]

AngryPidgeon, what is your read on Penguin at this point?

[CarbonFiber]

One idea I had was to just lynch Penguin today and choose between Fox and RG tomorrow.

[CarbonFiber]

Because it is harder to decide between Fox/RG than it is to get a solid read on PA as scum.

[CarbonFiber]

Okay, do some POE yourself then. What is bugging me is that you are keeping every option open. You still think there is a chance Tammy is scum after all the stuff that happened in this game, and you are still considering JSU as scum although this one is a little more reasonable. Both of them are as good as conftown to me. I just wish I could feel that way about one other player and it would be game solved.

I do think Penguin is the second scum even without POE. If nothing else, the way she hopped onto the Magenta wagon felt scummy when viewed from the knowledge that Magenta is town. I don't even know how she developed suspicion of Magenta other than by seeing that Magenta was under pressure. She agreed with it, let herself be gracefully persuaded and then voted when asked.

[CarbonFiber]

Is more time really going to help, though? I'd rather get it over with one way or the other.

I agree. I actually prefer not to drag this out for five more days till deadline. I'm just waiting for JSU to sync up, for Tammy to get back into the game and Penguin to do something other than post just to say that she won't vote because "scum might hammer."

[CarbonFiber]

What is bugging me is that you are keeping every option open.

And? This isn't bugging you about Tammy. I'll waffle if I wanna. I'll leave my friends behind.

I've felt demotivated ever since Katsuki flipped town and the site outage just sort of made that even worse since I actually forgot things that happened on top of that. The magenta mislynch just got us a ticket to lylo and I don't have anyone that I'd be willing to bet money on being town right now. And the odds of winning this look really abysmal and I expect to die tonight even if we do lynch correctly Today.

You are calling people conftown and.. ok? Im the only conftown in the thread unless you want to tell me JSU is scum with me and {RG/Fox}.

Forgive me for not seeing shit from your perspective when you have JSU as more town than me (wtf).

This is based on play, not results.

[CarbonFiber]

Well, this at least confirms that AP and I aren't scum together if RG is town.

[CarbonFiber]

they aren't town though

Ugh, I want to just vote them. It'll confirm a bunch of people if they don't hammer and if they are scum, it'll confirm them as scum pretty soon.

[CarbonFiber]

I want waffles next time.

[CarbonFiber]

Tammy, what do you think about JSU?

It feels like you are the only other player in the game not loltown reading them.

I'm concerned about jsu. But a couple of their things don't make much sense from scum. Idk.

How about AP?

[CarbonFiber]

I'm looking at everyone cross-eyed.

I do think there's a very very good chance that at least one of ap or pa ha! Are scum. They're the only ones left off the nacho wagon, so either the whole scum team bussed or one or both are scum.

I think his suspicion of me today feels weird considering he's spent most of the game calling me town. Also the "you aren't dead yet" thing feels off. He is supposedly confirmed town and isn't dead yet, so that's just weird.

I thought it was weird as well although I don't know why scum-AP would bother doing that since no one is going to buy it anyways.

What do you think of NotScience's initial posting and wagoning you early to sort you? You said then that it made you think he was town. Do you think he is unlikely to fake it as scum?

[CarbonFiber]

I'd expect you to be sympathetic to me not really wanting to call anyone town right now.

Ah, so THAT'S why you'd fake suspicion as scum.

[CarbonFiber]

That's fine. What I am getting at is that suspecting everyone makes sense from Tammy's POV because she's obvtown. Suspecting everyone doesn't make sense from anyone's else POV because they have at least one player that's obvtown as an anchor so I wouldn't expect similar mindsets which is why your paranoia bothered me.

[CarbonFiber]

Caught up but still being indecisive here. Fox & Hound aren't making me think they're town, but then RG isn't doing much at all. I'll figure out where to go when I have time in a few hours.

Really now, Penguin? When FH had two votes on him, you say that you are leaning towards them but don't want to vote because scum might hammer. Now that RG has two votes on them, you lean back towards them and hedge massively, and say you'll show up later. I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't draw scum here.

[CarbonFiber]

Really now, Penguin? When FH had two votes on him, you say that you are leaning towards them but don't want to vote because scum might hammer. Now that RG has two votes on them, you lean back towards them and hedge massively, and say you'll show up later. I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't draw scum here.

You think PA/RG/ ?? Me?

I think it is Penguin for sure. And then two of AP/Fox/RG but I don't know which of you.

Setup-wise, I think RG has to be scum because my role PM says that I appear as a replica to all cops so I'd be pretty surprised to see only one town cop and two scum cops. But I can't bank anything on that but setup indicates it is probably not you and Fox together.

[CarbonFiber]

Well if you think JSU is town and consider the possibility that RG is town, why isn't RG hammered?

I don't know. They're probably not town though.

[CarbonFiber]

I am going to wait for Penguin to actually show up and vote before I figure out what I want to do with my vote.

[CarbonFiber]

Well, that's the game. I wish we went ahead and lynched Fox but meh.

[CarbonFiber]

Well, THANK GOD THE GAME IS OVER.

[CarbonFiber]

So, the reason I wanted Fox dead was to set up an AP/CF/RG LYLO after we lynched Penguin next. That way, I'd convince RG to vote AP and have them crossvote and take my time figuring it out in 3P.