Mini 1,573: How Do You Want to Die? (Game over!)

[Snork]

I

am

voting SSK, ika...

I agree lynching Kitoari is stupid. Which is why I'm not voting him. But if he were to disappear, I would not be disappointed.

I'm having doubts about anti. I think Shroom might be a shiny scapegoat but I'm not sure yet.

[Dr Pants]

Are they scum if Shroomish flips town or if he flips scum? Why?

ah yes, sorry i forgot about this. Since anti and SSK were both on the Shroomish wagon with me and Ika its really unlikely that both are scum. From what Ika has told me, Anti is known to bus, so if Shroomish flips scum I'd go for town SSK and scum Anti. Additionally, since SSK is sheeping its less likely he'd sheep onto a fellow scum then to have Anti bus.

[ika]

1)I

am

voting SSK, ika...

I agree lynching Kitoari is stupid. Which is why I'm not voting him. But if he were to disappear, I would not be disappointed.

2) I'm having doubts about anti. I think Shroom might be a shiny scapegoat but I'm not sure yet.

1) Haven looked at recent vote count.

2) this is why also a shroom lynch pretty much solves the game.

Are they scum if Shroomish flips town or if he flips scum? Why?

ah yes, sorry i forgot about this. Since anti and SSK were both on the Shroomish wagon with me and Ika its really unlikely that both are scum. From what Ika has told me, Anti is known to bus, so if Shroomish flips scum I'd go for town SSK and scum Anti. Additionally, since SSK is sheeping its less likely he'd sheep onto a fellow scum then to have Anti bus.

I dont think i recall me saying anti busses? Maybe it was titus and her scum how she DOESNT bus and instead distances best as possible.

I think anti or SSK lynch is most imformative. Theres a peice of info i think i have gleamed from thinking abou this game that makes me ping with excitement. However to paranoia scums, im going to tell pant tonight and then it can be solved tommorow

Gambit 2 is underway.

[ika]

1)I

am

voting SSK, ika...

I agree lynching Kitoari is stupid. Which is why I'm not voting him. But if he were to disappear, I would not be disappointed.

2) I'm having doubts about anti. I think Shroom might be a shiny scapegoat but I'm not sure yet.

1) Haven looked at recent vote count.

2) this is why also a shroom lynch pretty much solves the game.

Are they scum if Shroomish flips town or if he flips scum? Why?

ah yes, sorry i forgot about this. Since anti and SSK were both on the Shroomish wagon with me and Ika its really unlikely that both are scum. From what Ika has told me, Anti is known to bus, so if Shroomish flips scum I'd go for town SSK and scum Anti. Additionally, since SSK is sheeping its less likely he'd sheep onto a fellow scum then to have Anti bus.

I dont think i recall me saying anti busses? Maybe it was titus and her scum how she DOESNT bus and instead distances best as possible.

I think anti or SSK lynch is most imformative. Theres a peice of info i think i have gleamed from thinking abou this game that makes me ping with excitement. However to paranoia scums, im going to tell pant tonight and then it can be solved tommorow

Gambit 2 is underway.

[Antihero]

Anti I'd actually like to hear your reasoning for claiming when and how you did. Can you explain please?

because i give up on this game.
i knew the claim would either get me lynched or nightkilled tonight.

my perception of this game is that what i called the "trifecta of fail" is going after me because of differences in playstyle / approach to the game. i happen to think this perception is pretty accurate. the only way it's going to get resolved is if i die.

drpants:

i'm not going to include titus, you, or ika in my reads since 1) you two are already claimed and 2) it's impossible for me to be objective about titus.

townreads would include Snork. leaning town on bubbajack and goodmorning (though, i think someone should check one or both of these out). SSK is... well... SSK. scumreads are burningearth and shroomish.

[Antihero]

ah yes, sorry i forgot about this. Since anti and SSK were both on the Shroomish wagon with me and Ika its really unlikely that both are scum. From what Ika has told me, Anti is known to bus, so if Shroomish flips scum I'd go for town SSK and scum Anti. Additionally, since SSK is sheeping its less likely he'd sheep onto a fellow scum then to have Anti bus.

lolwat?
whoever says i'm a busser scum doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Dr Pants]

would anti bus HS though?

im going back and forth on titus and anti. personally i think the best thing right now might be to get that sorted out today or tomorrow. if shroomish does flip scum, then we would have to wonder whether or not anti would be willing to bus someone out when their are other easy targets (like myself) in play.

IMO, yes i could see anti trying to do that overall some of his "SSK is being SSK but snork is not" (or someone he mentioned) is what makes me think SSK is town is anti is scum. This is also why I want to see where this leads to. I'm willing to move over to anti before day is over (we have 6 days), i just want to see how far anti is going to push this

This is what I was thinking of, but its not as strong as "Anit busses", so I guess scrap that part of the argument. It doesn't change the reads though

[ika]

Anti I'd actually like to hear your reasoning for claiming when and how you did. Can you explain please?

because i give up on this game.
i knew the claim would either get me lynched or nightkilled tonight.

this contridcits what you said to me about your claim eariler....

[ika]

Something else that's telling: given how much you v Titus there has been today, why hasn't a wagon formed before now? and now that a wagon has formed, why isn't scum jumping at the chance to get you, who claimed a town PR, out?

well, i claimed at around 5:00 this morning and most players

SIMPLY HAVEN'T FUCKING BEEN ON

your fail logic is more telling than anything

here FMPOV it sounds like you claimed out of just sheer anger and maybe being tired

[Antihero]

what i said to you:

also, i'm just over this game.
though.
done.
that's why i claimed.

...that's contradictory.... how?

my 3 most recent scumgames:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31479
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32351
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31754

in none of them i bus

[Antihero]

here FMPOV it sounds like you claimed out of just sheer anger and maybe being tired

...exactly... the point of the claim was to commit suicide.........

where's the disconnect for you?

[Dr Pants]

@ anti: who should be the lynch today? apart from myself and Ika, who would you want on the wagon? Is there anyone who's vote would deter you from joining a wagon?

[Dr Pants]

also at the very least the fact that we claimed mason keeps you alive for a couple more days if you are town

[Antihero]

townreads would include Snork. leaning town on bubbajack and goodmorning (though, i think someone should check one or both of these out). SSK is... well... SSK. scumreads are burningearth and shroomish.

in terms of whose votes would deter me, it would be burning earth and shroomish (but burning earth has been revving the chainsaws for shroomish for a while now, so....)

[goodmorning]

Supporting evidence in the thread.........

Were you referring to someone's VCA in particular? I didn't see any. But if you think it sucks you should explain why. VCA by itself, as a method, doesn't suck...

I did explain. I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with you if you aren't interested in backing up your opinion with evidence.

I wasn't, though if you want to go there ika's was particularly awful.

[Dr Pants]

quick map of players (mostly for my own benefit):

Claimed:
Dr Pants: Mason, Town
Ika: Mason, Town

Antihero: Role Blocker, could be either town or scum

Others:
Titus: Town read
Good Morning: Town read
Burning_Earth: null read, lurker
Bubba: null read, lurker
Snork: null/town
SSK: scum read, lurker, sheeps
Shroomish: scum read, lurker

Kitoari: not in game

For tomorrow, depending on what the lynch is we need to get Kitoari's replacement and people marked as lurkers more active in the game.

[ika]

Anti: the thing is im looking at it from other perspectives as well The fact you are saying "titus vs you cant be TvS" is fallacy is not really unless if you know titus is town or you are both scums.

Is it possible for you to both be town? yes
is it possible for one of you to be scum? yes

this is why me and pants are trying to solve it and your basic defeatism is not helping. If anything its a basic attempt at ATE, yes it could technacly be your playstlye that casued all this. But at same time we have to take other views (like flips and wagons and several other things that im taking into consideration).

To maybe clairfy:

There are sevral flips that i forsee that will help me solve this game and one of them is you tbh.

p-edit: so to clarify, you would be fine with voting SSK?

Assuming you are town rber. What powers do you think scums have?

Everyone lets have a topic for dicussion: if rber is town what would the scum power be? and vice versa generate some dicussion

[ika]

Supporting evidence in the thread.........

Were you referring to someone's VCA in particular? I didn't see any. But if you think it sucks you should explain why. VCA by itself, as a method, doesn't suck...

I did explain. I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with you if you aren't interested in backing up your opinion with evidence.

I wasn't, though if you want to go there ika's was particularly awful.

Meh, i do what i can with what info i got, it may not always be optimal but it is what it is.

[Antihero]

knowing SC, me you and Pants are very likely the only non-vanillas in this game

[ika]

knowing SC, me you and Pants are very likely the only non-vanillas in this game

Intresting...

Dont claim who you block untill tommorow, im gonna give you a benficit of doubt for tonight.

[Dr Pants]

we've only had 1 night. its possible that there is a third party (probably a SK) and that scum has a doc. or, town has a doc and scum has a strongman. or, perhaps scum has a role cop. there's a lot of different things it could be.

If RB is scum, then there probably aren't other scum PR's, but there has to be other town PR's, since RB against masons is meaningless.

[Antihero]

Anti: the thing is im looking at it from other perspectives as well The fact you are saying "titus vs you cant be TvS" is fallacy is not really unless if you know titus is town or you are both scums.

Is it possible for you to both be town? yes
is it possible for one of you to be scum? yes

this is why me and pants are trying to solve it and your basic defeatism is not helping. If anything its a basic attempt at ATE, yes it could technacly be your playstlye that casued all this. But at same time we have to take other views (like flips and wagons and several other things that im taking into consideration).

Anti: the thing is im looking at it from other perspectives as well The fact you are saying "titus vs you cant be TvS" is fallacy is not really unless if you know titus is town or you are both scums.Is it possible for you to both be town? yesis it possible for one of you to be scum? yesthis is why me and pants are trying to solve it and your basic defeatism is not helping. If anything its a basic attempt at ATE, yes it could technacly be your playstlye that casued all this. But at same time we have to take other views (like flips and wagons and several other things that im taking into consideration).

ok.

prime example of what i'm talking about in terms of playstyle difference.

i don't look at fights and then label them TvT or TvS. with the exception of special circumstances (white flag and other situations where it's obviously not strategically sound for scum to bus), i

never

do that.
the reason is because you can't really tell just from how the fight's going if it's TvT or TvS.

especially

if the fight gets heated. really the best indicator in that those scenarios is to read what's going on

around

the fight (how are other people reacting? are they trying to fuel the flames? how are the two adversaries reading

everyone else

in the game?)
i read the players as individuals and with respect to players who have already flipped. flippantly declaring a scuffle to be "TvT" or "TvS" is counterproductive and (in my opinion) kind of scummy.

[Antihero]

we've only had 1 night. its possible that there is a third party (probably a SK) and that scum has a doc. or, town has a doc and scum has a strongman. or, perhaps scum has a role cop. there's a lot of different things it could be.

mmmmmmmm

i've played SC games and i think he tries to keep them as close to mountainous as possible.

i kind of don't he would use target-side counters.

[Antihero]

i'm going to have to go root through the SC games i've played...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=15386
^This one had a scum BP.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16200
^this one was all goons

other than the scum BP, no target side counters.

[ika]

If RB is scum, then there probably aren't other scum PR's, but there has to be other town PR's, since RB against masons is meaningless.

Thats why im waiting on sevral things

ok.

prime example of what i'm talking about in terms of playstyle difference.

i don't look at fights and then label them TvT or TvS. with the exception of special circumstances (white flag and other situations where it's obviously not strategically sound for scum to bus), i

never

do that.
the reason is because you can't really tell just from how the fight's going if it's TvT or TvS.

especially

if the fight gets heated. really the best indicator in that those scenarios is to read what's going on

around

the fight (how are other people reacting? are they trying to fuel the flames? how are the two adversaries reading

everyone else

in the game?)
i read the players as individuals and with respect to players who have already flipped. flippantly declaring a scuffle to be "TvT" or "TvS" is counterproductive and (in my opinion) kind of scummy.

Then its an agree to disagree overall.

we've only had 1 night. its possible that there is a third party (probably a SK) and that scum has a doc. or, town has a doc and scum has a strongman. or, perhaps scum has a role cop. there's a lot of different things it could be.

mmmmmmmm

i've played SC games and i think he tries to keep them as close to mountainous as possible.

i kind of don't he would use target-side counters.

Clarify the bolded i dont understand.