Magical Girls UPick - Heart of Shadow (Game Over)

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: Titus

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: Titus

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: Titus

[Tana and Ephraim]

Do I?

[Tana and Ephraim]

I finally feel like I'm not dying internally anymore so there's that.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Not feeling like you are dying internally is great

[Tana and Ephraim]

Man IDC I still want a break

I'll be back don't lynch anyone or bring anyone close

[Tana and Ephraim]

Hahahahahahaha

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm the king of the world!

[Tana and Ephraim]

Wheeeeee

[Tana and Ephraim]

All of your mothers wear army boots

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon

[Tana and Ephraim]

Pretend break down?

[Tana and Ephraim]

Bruh Titus you have no idea

[Tana and Ephraim]

I fucking hate mafia

[Tana and Ephraim]

But I joi. Games anyway!!!

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm not even drunk either that's the funniest part

[Tana and Ephraim]

owo uwu

[Tana and Ephraim]

I fucking hate mafia

You hate it because you treat mafia as a competitive game.

I make it competitive or people use it against me

Either to mislynch me or to attack me

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm not going against Tanas views on GIFs design philosophy.

I went against her and was wrong yesterday

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think Tana doesn't detail the wagon lightly

There's still other scum

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: CS

For now

[Tana and Ephraim]

This isn't a because she's my Hydra partner either I have no issues overruling my Hydra partners. I trust her read here enough to follow it over my own.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I am not looking at this shit show anymore tonight

Deuces

Don't actually think Titus is scum btw

[Tana and Ephraim]

\o/

[Tana and Ephraim]

1-shot vig, is probably slightly less likely there wouldnt be a scum redirector, GIF hates to make situations where scum can get a double nightkill tho.
UNVOTE:
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

In FO mafia i had an ability that would make anyone targeting me also target my target, i refused to use it because someone had received an item that made them strongwilled and so we started suspecting bus driver / redirector and i wanted to avoid giving scum a 2nd kill, after I was already dead and spoiled GIF told me that "He would never put a scum redirector when there's a town vig", a town vig had flipped in that game.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

I do believe GIF wouldnt do that ever, the 1-shot vig does weaken my reason a bit, but I think pops role, specially the magic gauge part is more likely town than not. I also told RC that i do not believe CS is scum while motivating Gameplay, but RC says it's possible, and that reasoning is weaker than the reasons i have to believe pops is town, so if he wants to go there i wont oppose very harshly but i'd prefer RCE and to a lesser extent DDL and RC disagrees on those so we're having kind of an internal issue here.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also, not to mention that we're cleared both, by the fact that we got shot by scum (since no one claimed targeting us and i doubt we have 2 vigs) and by the fact that we're dying at the end of tonight anyways.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

I do think that's... quite a lot of clears, but if we got no hard investigative power it may make sense, im not that good at setup spec without more info out on the table and im not gonna request more role info when unnecessary.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also if Kats is conftown i hope he starts doing some magic soon, he's way better than me at finding scum.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

If you want to overrule RC's opinion on the strongman kill, I can redirect

(I'm absolutely not doing that, it'd waste gauge)

You're not 100% in the clear except for mod meta right now for RC, you said whoever you target gets notified that they got redirected so you need to make that happen, as much as it hurts me to ask a potential redirector to redirect something.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

I kind of still think pops could easily be scum.

The extra transformation gauge also helps scum FYI.

Not as much when scum has the backup gauge.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Wow, I didn't think of that

Probably better for everyone if I pick something innocuous to control?

I'd rather you try to make scum shoot themselves, but that may be hard.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also you should probably check with GIF if you target someone that isnt acting or got no active night ability if they get notified of you attempting to redirect them, im assuming no, but better safe than sorry.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

I still don't think the extra gauge is purely a town benefit is what I'm trying to say.

I mean, the redirector with vig in the game is the stronger reason anyway?
I still think that pops not including NK on the spear is more of a PoV slip than scum trying to clear themselves but idk how much pops is capable of faking as scum.
Also there was no CW when pops was driven to an intent to L-1, plus the speed of the wagon, make me think pops is also more likely town than not, but idk who could be scum driving among the voters.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

popsofctown (6): Tana and Ephraim, Titus, gameplay506, Bitmap, Dannflor, Sailor Senshi

+CS intent.

From here probably Dann or CS maybe?
Unless scum is all in the lurkers.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

We are town and dying, titus is 65% town, gameplay's town unless he shot his buddy which requires too many mental gymnastics to assume, bitmap's IC, SS is 95% town.
Which leaves Dannflor and CS.
I'll talk about this to RC, but im not gonna vote anywhere today, i wanna hear more from Katsuki for starters, same from HH, grok's probably scum again, would vote.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

but im not gonna vote anywhere today

today irl that is.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Well I got some piece of juicy info
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

I could've sworn GIF didnt like town Vig+scum redirector but i need to look at postgame chat again, as i cant find it on my DMs with GIF or in the Dead PT. But i did learn that GIF doesnt like redirector + roleblocker, which is interesting.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: Croag
So, she's apparently avoiding this game, she was also scum in gay dance and she didnt post in that game either until she was already guaranteed dying, are we reaching Creature levels of meta here? LET'S FIND OUT!
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

we'd rather

lynch croag and go for a high equity vig

[Tana and Ephraim]

not to sound egotistical but our individual vig shots are better than your collective lynches.

so better to spend the lynch on the slot that obviously has to go and then free us to do our thing.

[Tana and Ephraim]

that streak will be judged not based on the croag lynch but on our vig.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I don't think that HH appreciated us still being alive today.

[Tana and Ephraim]

we can't be docced tonight to prevent the kill yesterday.

idk why gamma ever doesn't protect us last night though.

[Tana and Ephraim]

technically we need to submit our spear before EoD and we haven't done that so

still deciding on that one.

[Tana and Ephraim]

we've submitted.

[Tana and Ephraim]

we submitted on HH.

[Tana and Ephraim]

the block becomes a kill when we're undying, it's the same ability.

[Tana and Ephraim]

you guys better not choke from here

there's no way these flips aren't at least 1-1 scum town

[Tana and Ephraim]

I am the opposite of a roleblocker. I am a role stopper and I can protect anyone I trust so that nothing can be done to them role wise that night

and you're claiming that you did not rolestop us last night, why?

[Tana and Ephraim]

You posted twice on site during that time period as well

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also the fact that you suddenly pop up right now is really sketchy

[Tana and Ephraim]

who is we

Yes because I hadn’t caught up on this thread so I didn’t want to just post a pointless reply in here

I’m currently on holiday with my parents and sat in bed whilst they’re watching a tv show I don’t watch so I just checked in here as I got a PM about dying in another game so now I’m here and I saw everyone was lunching me

????????

you don't have to post in here but you posted multiple times in thread and apparently in hood during the night so you clearly could have submitted an action

either you're wilfully not playing the game which is disgusting or you're scum

[Tana and Ephraim]

we love you croag pls forgive

[Tana and Ephraim]

i am deriving essentially zero enjoyment from this game lol

[Tana and Ephraim]

the possibiliity of lld/kats double scum should definitely be considered at some point in the game.

[Tana and Ephraim]

assuming that we don't flip 3 scum before then

[Tana and Ephraim]

wdym quasiroleblocked hh

[Tana and Ephraim]

you do know that in undying form it's a vig kill, right

[Tana and Ephraim]

it's the same ability, the effect is different

[Tana and Ephraim]

why am i playing mafia

[Tana and Ephraim]

She specifically claimed Rolestopper not Ascetiscizer or however you spell that.
Rolestopper makes the target reflexively roleblock anyone targeting them.
Ascetiscizer makes the target Ascetic, making them be unaffected by any actions other than kills.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: RCE
I'm fine with this.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

ALL OF YOUR MOTHERS WEAR ARMY BOOTS

[Tana and Ephraim]

also hi

'sup losers

[Tana and Ephraim]

also hi

'sup losers

[Tana and Ephraim]

mmm

less insanity

more

i literally do not care about the result of this game

[Tana and Ephraim]

it's already aimed lol HH is dying.

[Tana and Ephraim]

we can only redirect if we lynch HH today.

[Tana and Ephraim]

i'm not super keen on lynching rce but i don't care that much tbh

[Tana and Ephraim]

hrm

i don't have a lynch list

but i do have a way of generating a lynch list

[Tana and Ephraim]

I've brought RC back to sanity, he's gonna be more useful tomorrow, would be nice if a lynch didnt happen yet.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

tomorrow IRL of course.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

hmm

step 1) vocally express a lack of faith in my play and discourage me in a way that's likely to make the quality of my play worse
step 2) my play ends up suffering (assuming you're town)
step 3) see! see! rc isn't that good

it's the mafia equivalent of cutting funds to health care in britain and then complaining that health care doesn't work.

[Tana and Ephraim]

the tryhard head of the rc head of the hydra is back and reading.

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: Bitmap for reasons.

Right now I'm thinking there's at least one scum in Dann/RCE, and I very much want to hear everyone's reads on this.

I really don't like "There must be in scum in subset X" minigames. I feel like it just gives you more chances to mess up, once when you setup the group, then again if you miss as you select within the group.

I'd have to be sold on Dannflor or RCE being independently scummy for the things they've done.

Both of them are. RCE's doing this weird shit with Bitmap and Senshi, and Dann reads very much as instigating. The fact that I've put these two reads together into a larger picture ought not to be causing you distress IMO; though I do understand the broader principle against lynch chaining, I don't think it applies here, since I'm not saying Dann's alignment implies much about RCE's or vice versa.

Except you're changing order of events and actions to fit your narrative which is scummy af.

odd that you didn't vote them in this position.

[Tana and Ephraim]

my immediate read on the game is that RcE/HH is SvS.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I suppose I should factcheck Not!RCRaybells's townreads before I commit to anything.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think that if we do confirm that HH is scum then any sort of townread on CS for the motivate flies out the window because that's the exact kind of play that NotRCRaybells!scum sets up.
I really ought to set up clearer terminology but I don't think anyone really understands the point I'm getting at by differentiating, so.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Alternative take on CW is that rather than look at the overrepresented players, we look at the underrepresented and HH/RcE are both at a resounding zero.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Not that this is super useful given reads that already exist but the two reads by CW on Titus and LE feel like TMI townreads that would be legitimately on town.

The Pops one is really eh and it was scumread before but I also think it's very plausible as a read that he generates on a slot that is 'beard'ing him in Titus terminology.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think that's more MariaR's general perspective of me indicative than scum indicative even though I think that she's scum. (It's true in general and I end up discussing it later.)
Why I think she's scum is actually hugely based on her interactions with me but for different reasons and I'll try to explain that even though I think it's a hard explanation to do justice to from not!myPoV

So, you're Maria. Your previous game with me was Gameshow Mafia, which is hard to do justice in words but like...

1) The game was OBSCENELY, STUPIDLY townsided.
2) I mislynched MariaR very cleanly and suffered very little from it.
3) The entire dead thread got to communicate with the last living townie at the end.
4) The entire dead thread had essentially spoilers because one of the scum outed me in dead, knowing this.
5) I was voted in LyLo by conftown.

In spite of all this, I got conftown to unvote me and vote scum instead and I won that LyLo and that game. It was legitimately like 95-5 townsided.
In fact, in both of my large theme scum games I heavily manipulated people

into

paranoia reading me because it justifies both my mislynches and my continued survival.
She has been privy to me making comments about the role of paranoia in keeping me alive in circumstances like that.

Now, for her to come into this game as town and say that RC is going to self resolve as scum because he's going to get paranoia lynched incredibly strains credulity.

It strains credulity because how the fuck does she believe it after everything she's seen me do.
It strains credulity because she already knows that saying stuff like that isn't going to keep me alive as town but is going to help me if I'm scum.
It strains credulity also because Sakura Hana was obviously town regardless of your thoughts on my head personally.

You flip things and you instead ask yourself what would lead to this post if she's scum and it makes a ton of sense as an approach to the game.
1) If she knows that she's planning to kill me anyway (hint: she is) then she doesn't have to be as worried about a long term negative response from me for not townreading me.
2) Saying that I'm self resolving prevents her from having to fake a read on a player that is exceptionally complex to read and as cited above, if I'm going to die anyway it is in fact self resolving.
3) People universally expect to get townread for taking potshots at me. People universally townread people taking potshots at me, even when the same players as scum have already expressed that they would probably get townread for taking potshots at me. There's a lot of motivation in being the one person refusing to townread me.***

I believe I already addressed the "cops and vigs are going to sort lurkers in a RC/Maria/Katsuki/LLD" lobby which also strains credulity for a lot of reasons.
I'm not in the mood to broadly address other aspects of their game that I have a read on with Maria specifically because this is actually my main thing with Maria.
With the slot as a whole I just independently scumread pretty much everything that Nine posts, and for reasons that I think are highly applicable to them.

Regarding the RcE partner theory, I think that one of her super exaggerated interactions as scum is always another scum and it's the only one that makes sense.
I also independently scumread both as well as the interactions from RcE side so it seems like a pretty safe read.
I'm more sure in HH as of right now, though.


*Seriously. There's this idea floating around that antagonizing me is towny because why would scum do it. In reality, scum universally and systematically attempt to either discredit or mislynch me in every single game that I play without exception. They always bring up this idea that they're going to get townread for it. It happens a LOT from scum and significantly less from town.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I believe this is a somewhat unpopular opinion at this stage of the game but I believe that Dannflor feels town in a way that I'm not surprised he's not a universal townread.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Happy scumday pops!
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Healer Helpers

Tana and Ephraim
Sailor Senshi
Lady Eventide
gameplay506
Bitmap

Pyro Assistant

Lady Lambdadelta
popsofctown

Training School

Titus
Chaos Wind
Katsuki
Croag
Cafe Stile

Dropouts

Dannflor
DrDoLittle
Gamma Emerald

User of dark magic

RCEnigma

the best mathematical way to determine Maria's alignment is to see how many scum versus town are voting her when she gets wagoned
when she's scum her entire scumteam are always on the wagon, when she's town usually she's getting wagoned by town and scum are just letting it happen

You know, this isn't even wrong.
Let's talk about RCEs hop on me.
We already knew Gamma was gonna do it because of Gamma's behavior problem.

How about we don't lynch LE?

@LE I'm fine with DDL

I get wanting to lynch someone to get the day over with and how the wagon would have a ton of information cause I've been there. But, let's not lynch the 1 slot that we can get a ton of info on by them being nice and clear. Yeah? Seems good to me!
VOTE: DDL

Also, how does Maria end up voting DDL right after her top scumread votes DDL?
She doesn't even address that read again for the rest of the day phase.

Particularly when you combine it with the Cafe Stiles commentary in twilight where he calls the wagon scum which makes sense with scum actively pursuing a contrary strategy.
@Katsuki, do you remember the actual vocal tones game where we all townblocked and all of us were voting the ONE town and scum were refusing to hammer?
Cuz I'm kinda feeling the same thing having been the situation with LE yesterday.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also, like all of the jump ons to DDL from the people I don't like in that area are so feelsbad.
They really do feel like this was a strategy they discussed in a scum PT as opposed to any sort of organic development of votes.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I wonder if it signals DDL as scum deliberately being a counterwagon voted by scum.
I should give that a closer look.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I still really really really want to stab Cafe Stiles with pointy objects.

[Tana and Ephraim]

RcE is definitely the least

meta defining

of my reads and I can maybe see him as town but let me think about that.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Look how LAMIST I am

So you think scum realized that LE was going to be lynched no matter what?

I 100% think that this is what scum were thinking at the time.

[Tana and Ephraim]

[DDL/HH/CS] is an interesting solve that I'm currently mulling over.

[Tana and Ephraim]

On a game level: everything that I am talking about is referring to stuff that happened on Day 1 rather than Day 2. I don't think there's readable content from your slot on D2.

you really don't seem to care that you made a newbie's first experience on this site monstrous because you were a dick to her for no reason and rushed a lynch just to prove yourself right.

I played a game to win. I had an incorrect scumread, and I lynched that incorrect scumread. And was wrong. That's mafia. That's life.
I reconsidered several times, including once on confirmed scum and almost certainly at least a few more times on other scum.
You assert that I ruined the game for her. I don't deny that it's possible that I made her experience worse by tunneling her.
But I never attacked her behind the screen. I said multiple times I was really sorry if she was town. I explained why I felt the way I did, even if it took until twilight.
You're acting like I did something wrong and I invite you to explain exactly what it is that I did wrong that doesn't boil down to being wrong on someone who took it badly.

You systematically discredit and eliminate anyone that even slightly disagrees with you and it helps you win both town and scum games

Also this is a really silly thing to say for reasons that I don't believe I should have to be the one to respond to.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I've started and then deleted several different tangents explaining why you were wrong about things that you've said about me and how it's not hard to figure them out.
I instead reached the conclusion that I don't actually care about your opinion about me because it's based on you not knowing anything about me and saying that you do.

I wish for optics reasons that I had placed this vote earlier but I still think it's the highest odds of flipping scum and I'm not gonna not vote this.

VOTE: HH

[Tana and Ephraim]

You really don't seem to care that you made a newbie's first experience on this site monstrous because you were a dick to her for no reason and rushed a lynch just to prove yourself right.

But really I can't see how you make this post from a non-scum point of view. Lynching people to prove yourself right?
You lynch anyone because you think that they're scum. I lynched LE because I thought that they were scum.

[Tana and Ephraim]

"Prove yourself right" even asserts that I believed it, so I'm failing to see what exactly you're criticizing me for outside of being wrong and leading a lynch.

I think RC's comment telling Bitmap to trust others and not think for himself is arguably out of line, but that his push on LE was all in-game and I didn't see anything even borderline. She joined the newbie queue fwiw

I don't. Why can't you give someone the advice that someone else is better at the game than they are? Should I just pretend everyone is equal at the game?
If I'm playing with a player who is consistently wrong on their reads, I don't see what the resolution to that situation is besides not playing to my wincon or trying to encourage them to follow others' reads.

If I was out of line this game it was in my interactions with Sailor Senshi. But there as is usually the case there was provocation.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think that's a really silly assertion on par with Shadoweh attacking my track record with newbies but I would prefer we lynch scum instead of dissect my mafia play.

[Tana and Ephraim]

My read as of right now is that RcE was town by the way, and that it's exactly HH/CS/DDL in that order of certainty.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm gonna try listening to some Polar Express to see if it ups my no longer good mood before I go to bed. Nitey nite etc.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Also I generally trend towards assuming that attacks like the one that Shadoweh just made against me are sincere even when coming from scum but I can't get over the timing of this one.

It didn't happen at the start of the day and didn't happen when I originally submitted against them. It happened now.

This'll be a little roundabout but I went through wanting to quit mafia, declaring that I hated mafia and this game and didn't care about the result after LE flipped town. Shadoweh asserted I didn't seem to care about the mislynch. How do you ever draw that conclusion in a game where my struggling with having lead a mislynch is more on display than ever? Why go on about my 'treatment' of that slot which was objectively fine when I think I actually had a call-outable moment in this game?

Or from another perspective, she's scum and she saw that I was barely holding onto having any sort of investment in this game and struggling and decided to hit me hard when I started to recuperate, focusing on me having led that mislynch (which again I was obviously already unhappy with) and hitting that button to make sure that I stay down.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I say that knowing that it's going to discredit my case bc people always townread people for saying negative stuff to me and drawing attention to that isn't pro people sheeping my read but I'm gonna say it anyway!

[Tana and Ephraim]

We can change our venge but only if we lynch the person that we were otherwise venging, says GIF

[Tana and Ephraim]

I would vastly prefer we lynch HH both today and quickly so no player ends up cornered by a replacement into that slot.

I don't want RcE dead at all

Bad vote and it makes me wonder about you.

[Tana and Ephraim]

It's l-1

[Tana and Ephraim]

We don't have to submit until we see the flip b/c our submitted target was officially lynched.

we're waiting for the flip to decide.

[Tana and Ephraim]

the snowbank misses you

[Tana and Ephraim]

thats hammer right, i'm free?

[Tana and Ephraim]

father... is it over?

[Tana and Ephraim]

I can think of about two dozen examples this year of scum replacing out in exactly the manner Shadoweh did to avoid a loss they didn't want and then taking the moral high ground after the game like someone profoundly wronged them by correctly scumreading them.

Is it possible they're town too? Sure. Scumhunting is hard. Maybe I'm not perfect. But every other respected town player has mislynched more than once consecutively on occasion and it never gets held against them.

This Shadoweh situation is symptomatic of a larger problem.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I would like to think that it's just difficult for scum!HH to empathize with what it's like actually trying to interact with someone playing like LE did as town.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Holy shit, i havent seen force of will in ages, no wonder Reflect/Refrain sounded familiar.

Also yes pops there's no need to redirect if people are going to believe your claim as is.
Ill switch accounts to quote these after im done reading.

[Tana and Ephraim]

thinking flavor is indicative on a game where people choose their flavor?
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Why are you not dead t&e

RC was BSing to avoid getting shot again coz we only die if we get shot twice in a row. Now scum has to waste 2 bullets on us to kill us.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

but why did it do the shit where T&E is dead... Psyche! rather than just give you 1-shot bulletproof or something.

probably coz we arent BP, we... self-revive. We are Undyne the Undying after all.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

You forgot to color pops CS
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

So to make it clear, if we die, we transform and self-revive instead, if we die again then we die for good, otherwise in 1 cycle we revert back to pre-death. This is the condition i was talking about for transforming, we dont control it, we just auto transform if we die.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: DDL

[Tana and Ephraim]

by bullied away you mean i basically did nothing

[Tana and Ephraim]

literally my game plan going into that game was

i have been ridiculously successful as town recently so if i tryhard i'll get boped so i need to find an excuse to not actually scumhunt

[Tana and Ephraim]

ill read this later pce

but ddl's takes so far today have been awful and there was a specific associative that i thought was heavily svs

[Tana and Ephraim]

ill read this later pce

but ddl's takes so far today have been awful and there was a specific associative that i thought was heavily svs

[Tana and Ephraim]

you're scumreading the n1 kill right now so...

[Tana and Ephraim]

really don't feel like that comment requires elaboration.

[Tana and Ephraim]

it really doesn't spew them town.
there was no votecount, i'm not sure anyone ever pointed out that there was an l-1 outside of myself privately to SH, and if both slots are scum anyway...
dann's still town. this is the day phase where everyone decides to start throwing.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Lynch town, shoot scum, Lynch more town.

I hope your dog is ok RCE

For the immediate future she's ok. But she's 8 going on 9 so it's been a wake up call.

VOTE: HH if I'm not already.

wanna explain what all this ~master class spew~ is?

[Tana and Ephraim]

like, which of those posts is "spewing everywhere"

if anything, if they're scum together then they absolutely would vote HH for spew and they didn't do anything else alignment indicative

i would call it more null than anything else but this random ass "spewing everything" doesn't align with the actual contents of those posts.

[Tana and Ephraim]

My gut instinct is that this is not a town ability on RC+Sakura's slot.

I'm just questioning whether I wanna spend like 5 days trying to lynch this slot while being screamed at tbh.

Life is hard rn lol

unlike the lion's share of players on this site you have never been responsible for leading a mislynch on me and your ability to read me has never been tested.
as of right now you haven't proven that you can't read me like the vast majority of other players in existence.

are you sure you want to transition that to 'has led on RC when he was essentially confirmed town mechanically' and never have even the slightest chance of lynching me in the future?

lol how do people even let you get away with that?

RC always claims through his vocal patterns when scum.

hard work and perseverance

[Tana and Ephraim]

pops flip actually helps me an insane amount so even though it's town i can't say i'm sad about it.

[Tana and Ephraim]

And it isn’t hated, but I can put a vote on someone and I’m a double voter. If I put all three votes on a successful wagon kill wagon then I gain a tracker ability

so...

what part of this would have allowed your slot to clear LE exactly

[Tana and Ephraim]

there's literally a flipped scum role that would have killed us in one night.

[Tana and Ephraim]

like... it's not a strongman. it's two nightkills. doesn't that seem strange, doesn't that seem highly likely to have been targeted at something?

i think that from an objective third party view our slot should be seen as clear.

[Tana and Ephraim]

should i expect an answer from you, OS?

[Tana and Ephraim]

And it isn’t hated, but I can put a vote on someone and I’m a double voter. If I put all three votes on a successful wagon kill wagon then I gain a tracker ability

so...

what part of this would have allowed your slot to clear LE exactly

[Tana and Ephraim]

to quote someone from your era of play

"paraphrasing a role pm takes a moment, making a convincing fakeclaim takes an eternity"

[Tana and Ephraim]

ok so we've re-learned what we already knew, that HH were either scum or playing the game in incredibly bad faith.

[Tana and Ephraim]

wow losing bitmap makes this game significantly less desirable for me to invest my time and effort in tbh

[Tana and Ephraim]

Wait, did you also have the option of being a cop?

[Tana and Ephraim]

3rd party serial killer in a game where the wincon doesn't require anything besides the eliminations of all "heart of shadows" makes us a survivor, not a serial killer, and in a game with no unexplained kills.

so...

[Tana and Ephraim]

exhibit B:

MISC. SETUP INFORMATION
This game contains 13 Heart of Light and 4 Heart of Shadow.
There are no third parties in this game.
There are no bastard roles or hidden mechanics in this game.

[Tana and Ephraim]

anyway

VOTE: oversoul

[Tana and Ephraim]

because we don't actually have a vig

[Tana and Ephraim]

we just needed to make sure scum didn't shoot us again

[Tana and Ephraim]

Raybells & Sakura Hana

I"m the cute head, Sakura Hana is the head that's good at mafia obv

[Tana and Ephraim]

We did spear Croag tho.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

It just happened to not be a vig, just the same roleblock (with a bit of an upgrade)
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

Yeah, we submitted that like super early in the day and it was too late to change it.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think it's CS/OS of the remaining players

It's been

likely for me

down to [CS/OS/DDL/Pops] and pops flip also makes DDL unlikely to be scum with what we know of the remainder so

[Tana and Ephraim]

like

RChana
Titus=vig
Gameplay=vig
Katsuki=mason
LLD=Mason
Dannflor=My TR
Sailor Senshi=My TR

Croag = ehhhhhh but i'll call her town for now

DDL
CS
OS

I guess i should do 2/3 associatives in that pool

[Tana and Ephraim]

i am not at all surprised you weren't killed

[Tana and Ephraim]

there's bad stuff in ddl's iso but i do think he's more likely to be town than any of my scumreads.

[Tana and Ephraim]

RC did not want to lynch RCE yesterday. We'd need independent evidence of RC scum before going down that road, and there are better targets tonight, if I transform.

so your argument is that sakura hana wanted to bus and I didn't?

[Tana and Ephraim]

sorry but no other player on site would still have people calling them scum in this situation and i really have no desire to deal with it
we also haven't seen HH's flip and one of my original ideas was that RcE/HH were crossbussing even though I ended up thinking the [whole scumteam mutual defending] theory was more likely

[Tana and Ephraim]

i think it's a really bad observation because rce's flip spews my role town so if we were in fact scum we'd be very much in favor of getting that flip out of the way early
on top of the whole fact that your theory relies on sakura hana wanting to bus and me not wanting to bus, as well as the fact that it relies on HH not being scum as well

[Tana and Ephraim]

like, the head of the hydra that is more adept at general scum gamestate manipulation wouldn't be responsible for us getting caught off of the back of a lynch on someone whose flip looks really good for us.

[Tana and Ephraim]

also important question

1) we apologize for blocking you croag but that was submitted super early in the dayphase while we thought we were lynching pops and you were just high probscum
2) what did you post to CS overnight

[Tana and Ephraim]

also important question

1) we apologize for blocking you croag but that was submitted super early in the dayphase while we thought we were lynching pops and you were just high probscum
2) what did you post to CS overnight

[Tana and Ephraim]

like i feel like anything that i say to point out that scumreads on our slot are really unreasonable will get ignored by virtue of the fact that they come from me
but i really do feel like town should not think that we are scum with the information that they have available to them.

[Tana and Ephraim]

at the very least, our odds of being scum should be probabilistically low enough that somewhere between that and the unlikeliness of actually getting scum us lynched the +ev of pushing on us is vanishingly small and not worth anyone's time.

[Tana and Ephraim]

and that's ignoring all the -ev of pushing on us in the significantly more likely universe where we're town
hey i'm doing what shadoweh called me out on doing and i don't feel at all bad about it ama

[Tana and Ephraim]

I trust katsuki and LLD not to gamethrow. i'm assuming they're the same alignment if they're not masons. it's not worth my effort to consider the possibility of them being TvS
i have seriously considered the possibility of them being SvS but i think the possibility of other people being scum is way more likely than them.

[Tana and Ephraim]

dannflor pay attention to me

[Tana and Ephraim]

i guess i really should consider dannflor scum at some point

[Tana and Ephraim]

i have

still don't feeeeeeel it i think

his rce interactions not great but not sure if scummy

[Tana and Ephraim]

I feel like scum!CS makes most sense in an Illuminati world where gameplay is also scum and shot his partner for town cred. But that feels unlikely for some reason.

i also had exactly this thought at the time

and i don't usually put stock in this tell for most people but i think my associative thought especially on developing this read isn't one that would easily be reverse engineered by scum

[Tana and Ephraim]

heyyyyy

[Tana and Ephraim]

nah i've seriously considered it a few times i just usually go away consciously aware that i don't have

the greatest

reasons to townread you but still feeling like you're town anyway \o/

[Tana and Ephraim]

hm

i need our hydra's "third opinion" at some point

[Tana and Ephraim]

CS
DDL
Dann
OS

this basically

[Tana and Ephraim]

ddl is obvtown btw

you read me right in access point, and the game where i was modkilled Mini 2042 I think, but wrong in cat art and fire on the mountain

this is a fucking strange thing to say in response to a townread on you.

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: CS
VOTE: DDL

[Tana and Ephraim]

ok here goes

Titus: Town
RChana: Town
SS: Town

Kats: MasonClaim
LLD: MasonClaim

Gameplay: vprobtown

Croag: probtown

Dannflor: Null

HH: Scummy

DDL: VScummy
CS: VScummy

[Tana and Ephraim]

CS's self description of having'amazing reads' is really weird and makes me think that they were scum hardbussing and trying to deepwolf.
the fact that they spent the whole game pushing rce and DDL and not really anyone else (and also correctly called CW bad, even if townie bad) is ehh

[Tana and Ephraim]

I think I've been stuck on overly restrictive gamestate ideas as opposed to just lynching the players from scummiest to least scummy since the LE mislynch and it hasn't helped my reads.

[Tana and Ephraim]

VOTE: CS
VOTE: DDL

i think this is it.

[Tana and Ephraim]

I'm townreading Eva so I'm not outing it
And she knows that
Croag isn't playing

A neighbourhood for scum is literally a golden pocketing opportunity and not only she didn't do that, she threw it away

- Hideri

Like maybe she thinks we're not worth it to pocket, which *shrug*
But it's tinfoil I'm not dealing with today

- Hideri

also this is a bullshit read and reeks of tmi.

[Tana and Ephraim]

idk do i really want to case things right now

[Tana and Ephraim]

Tana this is gonna flip town and y'all gonna hafta realize her wagon has probably 2+ wolves and one wolf is literally afk ok

- Hideri

sorry i know you can't accept the fact that people who can detach themselves from the game can have insanely good reads rc

yeah just, i don't think either of these two are the type of people either to have reads so good that they never pushed on town d1 nor to be self-aware of that fact even if they were.
i think their reads the entire game have been bullshit. with the way they're claiming to generate reads i don't think they end up having perfect d1 reads essentially
also, we've lynched the lowest common denominator so far and it's worked and i'm kinda tempted to just continue lynching up which means killing DDL and CS.

[Tana and Ephraim]

whereas them saying 'aite guys ima deepwolf this shiznit', only pushing their buddies, and making a bunch of self aware posts about being super confident in their reads because they "dont confbias" makes a lot of sense.
they're also tonally awful. and their flip strongly points to DDL as well.

[Tana and Ephraim]

Unless Eventide claims Clark Kent and can cop+autovig + revive a dead townie. I'm probably not unvoting here today. Most of her reads/votes are so terrible (e.g. one on Croag when there's so much action; the one on Dann that didn't make any sense, and as soon as dann response, she doesn't talk anymore), but this one takes the cake: there was like 1 or 2 votes on Bitmap + Dannflor was not instigating anything and telling everyone to calm down + needs a Bitmap Dann scumteam, which each by itself is relatively unlikely. I don't even know what to say about it.

i think that defining your unvote condition by a claim (which is effectively nai) is scummy and shows that you're not actually reading for alignment.

HH I want to ask you about RCE-scum

I don't understand your scum read on him. Looping back to your ISO, if I'm interpreting correctly
1 - RCE states the obvious (titus defends herself), or is applying faulty logic (townreading you for scumreading him)
3 - RCE brings up stuff from log time ago.
But these are not smoking guns, and could be very much a playstyle thing (needing to hash all the information). Why is he so big of a scum read to you?

DDL defends RcE as well and in a way that doesn't feel all that good faith

Lady Eventide - They're looking green for me. They're being a bit helpful to twon the way that Sailor Senshi does.

This is how I know you have at most skimmed.

Helpful to town is a gross overstatement. I can agree with there are gems in the rough if you wade through all the dirt but no more

Difference between that and SS is night and day

think this is both S indicative and SvS indicative.

i wonder whether CS giving the shot to you, gameplay, and the gamma shot was forced by CS, so that in EV terms, your shot is more likely to kill town

i think my posited scenario is likely, VOTE: CS

actually maybe not. I still have to figure out this whole CW neighborhood thing UNVOTE:

and then this is just not gr8

[Tana and Ephraim]

cs has actually been tonally the worst slot in the game since very very early on, i got derailed from that on d1 and then have been reluctant because it seemed like their scumreads are scum but atp i think their scumreads are scum because tmi

[Tana and Ephraim]

I can do CS or RCE too

im not too interested in voting pops
VOTE: rce

hmmmm

[Tana and Ephraim]

see like i was momentarily considering townreading that

but yesterday, before RcE flip, both DDL and CS were treating each other like the most obvious scum to ever scum
but then now today after the RcE flip both of them have randomly found reasons to townread each other, are generally going off of the same reads, and are both going after dannflor

kinda feels like there was a discussion overnight of 'okay we are self destructing lets find people to SR that aren't each other'

[Tana and Ephraim]

Kay uh so we motivated tana and eph because non-consecutive

what the hell happened

//

VCA at night actually tells me that DDL looks better
So I'm just looking at like
{croag/HH} for scum
somehow that feels wrong
idk

CS and SS should both be town. Scum would be a bit more careful if its their partner wagoned like that

the posts are even adjacent lol

[Tana and Ephraim]

it's weird but titus weird i think.

[Tana and Ephraim]

no sry misinterpret

[Tana and Ephraim]

tana prefers ddl so we're gonna vote there

VOTE: ddl

[Tana and Ephraim]

there actually was 1 push on presumed???? town from CS onto Titus actually but after that, nah.

[Tana and Ephraim]

also ddl's dannflor read is predicated on the fact that he's a nice fellow? wut

[Tana and Ephraim]

@CS, then the burden is on you to show consistently at most 3 people are diverting pressure away from me. Who are these people?

So your immediate reaction isnt im not scum its you need to prove im scum eh

- Hideri

Bye im going home

did i already quote this

[Tana and Ephraim]

i'd prefer to vote cs but this is ok

[Tana and Ephraim]

I rolestopped Gameplay lastnight.

I'm very confused - Tana and Ephraim said they roleblocked me yesterday day time? Why did they submit their action in day phase? And why did they say they couldn't change it? I don't think thinking me as scum early on in the day is a valid excuse - you can change your action, surely.

I am suspicious of Tana and Ephraim for this reason. I don't think they are town. Not because they targetted me, that's fine, but saying they did it at day time, and also the fact I don't think there would be a roleblocker & rolestopped as both town in this game. If there is, my bad, maybe my role is seen more as a doc?

Because day actions resolve immediately, for our action the target gets the notification at the beginning of the night, this wouldnt be possible with a night action. I asked GIF several times coz the target gets notified at the beginning of the night, but he said we arent allowed to change it after submitting it.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

@Croag: Why did u decide to use your rolestop instead of skipping action to avoid getting hit by the spear?
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

i never got notified - i wouldn't have said this if i did!

Well that's weird.
GIF even confirmed we sent him the action. I'm checking just in case he forgot.
-Tana

[Tana and Ephraim]

dannflor you didn't answer any of MY questions

[Tana and Ephraim]

dannflor you didn't answer any of MY questions

"deepwolf deepwolf deepwolf" isn't a question

yeah but

are you seeing anyone~

[Tana and Ephraim]

CS is online a ridiculous amount of the time that they aren't posting in game.

[Tana and Ephraim]

also citing a turbo as proof of their competence and confidence is @_@

[Tana and Ephraim]

there's a handsome seal i have my eyes on

uwu