Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[NorwegianboyEE]

glitch attacks me for the slaving, after i had stopped, and he doesn't even acknowledge that the slaving had stopped by that point (just a little further up the page!). i'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he hadn't seen my vote on cat, but its a bad look.

What do you think the meaning behind it could be? That he’s just not paying attention or something else?

[popopopopopopo]

he either missed it or left it out on purpose

[Nauci]

Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now? That's why we're ignoring it—this slot WILL be resolved eventually but it's not terribly useful to do it today no matter how many scummy posts they make.

That's why I'm shifting gears to Popo and others. That said, it doesn't make sense to me why we shouldn't discuss something just because the majority has just dismissed it for tomorrow. If there's a legitimate concern that truth is scum, Ben the scummiest thing for his scum Partners to do would be to try and just put off the Mason discussion until further notice. It's not like it hurts the town at all to talk about these things. I'm opening up my discussion and evaluations two other players because it's obvious that we are not going to get a wagon formed on truth. But I really don't like your dismissal until tomorrow. I'll come back to that in a little bit and if truth ever what's scum this conversation will be important.

I'm on my way to work and I work in a breakfast and lunch restaurant. Father's Day is generally the busiest day of the year or close second to Mother's Day. Probably won't be back on until late this evening.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that analyzing a slot which will be mechanically solved later in the game is a waste of time on Day 1 at best, and PR fishing to some degree at worst

[Nauci]

Wait, this was the townblock truth was talking about?

No

[Nauci]

This post shouldn't come from town and overall norwee is much townier in the norwee-lion interaction.

Why though?

[Nauci]

I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.

Considering how many of us picked up on that, idk why you'd think it was insincere

You post a catch up on posts from many days ago with no spectacular or original insights and then disappeared completely again without giving thoughts on anything past like, page 11

That's a pretty classic sign of demotivated scum posting this catch up was equally underwhelming and I hope in the next several pages you elaborated on your reads list

[Nauci]

On the one hand, i’d like to entertain the thought of me/GL being TvT. But i also don’t see that many other major leads than him today. So i’d still really like to lynch there.

We had more than 10 days left at the time of this post so what the hell is this sentiment even

If you don't see other leads maybe chase down some

[Nauci]

-You could want to stick with me and see if a popopopopopopopopop mislynch could go through without you, in which case a) GL looks bad and b) you can then play the 'I told you so, GL is scum!!' card on D2

Nah, i would just nightkill you buddy.

this post is weird, not to mention the fact that nking guilty in that scenario might be a bad idea to begin with

im not sure how i feel about glitch. looker has barely posted so i dont have a read there either

glitch in particular has posts that don't really ping me either way, but i should iso that slot and delve in a little deeper sometime soon

nauci might be scum and couldve been trying to pocket me or something, but now that ive voiced that thought she should give up on that front. doesn't mean she's not scum though

not quite sure how i feel about lion and popopopopoopopoopopppop. it's definitely not svs, maybe tvt (unlikely?) but probably tvs. not sure who the scum there is, though. lion has some slightly scummy vibes if we're talking strictly meta, but i'm not too sure there either

both these posts are really waffley and don't take any stances on anything. There's also more problems with later posts which I'll get to in a second

Oh good. 696 pinged hard as scummy to me, but I was worried it could be because of personal bias from the bit about me at the time.

[Truth]

If you don't die tonight, are we expected to believe that a Doctor healed you?

It depends on how many other people died in the night. There might be other roles that can kill people. If no dies in the night, I think it's safe to assume I was protected by a doctor.

[Nauci]

naucy is still playing a very weird game i think though

This comment amuses me greatly

You've only played 1 game with me, in which I was scum, and you were town reading me lol

So you need to elaborate and expand on this post a lot if you want me to believe anything other than that you are shading me without being able to come up with reasons, or that "weird" means different from our previous game together which means I'm playing differently than I did when I was scum

[Nauci]

It's bizarre to me that you think the only possible explanation for this game state is that I'm scum.

If i assume you are town then i have too many townreads and not enough scumreads on the other players.

That is where I was yesterday, so I took initiative to push on a slot that I wanted to know more about

I mean, you've been around here a lot more than I have, right? So why do you keep acting like you don't know how the game is played?

[Nauci]

Nauci's townblock thing was forced A F and didn't feel natural.

i agree with this. it did feel very weird

as i said a lot of nauci's play this game feels very odd

If I could double vote you for this kind of vague-shading, I would

[Glitch]

I saw your vote but didn't realize you jumped ship on Norway. I wasn't tracking whether your votes followed Norway's, I just assumed they all were. I was focusing on breaking down and analyzing your play so far and this post I actually did miss:

@Popopo, can you tell me your actual reads now? Our contract is rescinded.

678 is shit though because there is no explanation as to why you stopped and it looks like "omg the town might lynch me if I don't stop following Norway now," but there was literally nothing added or explanation given, it was like a desperate attempt to just dodge and deflect. And if you're scum you've been planning your easy slide out of sheeping Norway to vote a nice easy one on Cat Scratch as you've planted shallow reasoning for Cat to be on your scum list since 536. Your whole argument is that CSF has more town reads and less scum reads but it's important to have solid town reads in a game too, not just SRs. Regarding my vote, I'm not opposed to your wagon. We have plenty of time to see you actually play your own thoughts out now that you've abandoned this vote slave complex.

[Glitch]

^This post is @801

[Nauci]

Well yeah. If all scum look like town because they are good at writing walls of text and faking genuine looking reactions then town will most likely lynch some town lurker or listen to advice from the scum about a player to lynch. (In which case, obviously they’d suggest lynching a town)

Scum don't have to be the Towniest people in the game to win. They just have to be less Scummy than someone else. That's why Scum push easy things. Because pushing easy things gets those players lynched. Like, if you actually observe the good Scum players you will see they care way more about lynching Town than looking Townie. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either. This stuff is pretty established on many Mafia sites.

You know, Quick, this is the most clear and comprehensible I've ever seen you post and I appreciate the improvement to your play immensely

I hope that everyone in this conversation doesn't use it as an opportunity to devolve into IIOA spam though

[Nauci]

Let’s make it a bet. If Nauci is scum i win the argument. Because they are playing "like town" according to you. But i disagree there isn’t the possibility of scum playing like town to avoid getting lynched.

The way your reads are evolving from "I have a few reasons to be suspicious of X" to full blown tunneling is beginning to feel really suspicious, bro

Like, what do you actually think I've done is scummy, versus just... Not having Towned harder? Because your case went from I might be scum because I townread GL, who you were dead sure is scum, to even if GL is town I'm probably scum because I may have been trying to buddy him? Now, when people point out reasons they town read me, you're tripling down on the scum read because I could be faking the towny posts?

Like, I don't care that you're scum reading me but it's very odd how much you keep taking them from suspicion to full confidence reads for no reason. I mean, are you going to take Osuka's input of "she sounds weird" as evidence? Because she's only seen me as scum, in the one game, and didn't think I sounded whatever "weird" means then.

GL and popopo: is this sort of tunneling typical for NBEE?

P.S. my town block posts were a facetious way for me to hand out town reads. Also I stand by those town reads.

[Glitch]

Spoiler: hit play then read along

Well you can tell by the way I use my vote
I’m a townie boy, no time to stop!

Hunting scum through the days and nights,
try to vote them out,
it's why I was born!

No we can’t stop
Hunting them
Gonna start a bandwagon

Then we’ll try
To understand
The’ffect of all the votes on them

WHETHER YOU ARE SCUMMY OR WHETHER YOU ARE TOWNIE WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

FEEL THE SCUMMIES SHAKIN’ AND EVERYBODY QUAKIN’ AND WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYING ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE WOOOOAHOAH

Well now I read votes and I read lies,
And if I can’t read either, I guess it’s NAI

Got the scum team stringing’ up my noose,
But then I’m saved by doc, I just can’t lose.

It’s alright,
It’s okay,
I’ll live to see another day

We won’t stop
Until they die
Town 4 lyfe until we die

WHETHER YOU A TOWNIE OR WHETHER YOU A MAFIA WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

FEEL THE SCUMMIES SHAKIN’ AND EVERYBODY QUAKIN’ AND WE’RE STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYIN ALIVE
STAYIN ALIVE

AH AH AH AH
STAYING ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE

Spoiler:

me and my sister play mafia in person all the time and we jammed it up with this years ago and I thought y'all'd get a kick

[Nauci]

Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I literally just played a game with scratch scum which ended right after this game started - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go - and they felt way more scummy and bland/intentionally inoffensive there than they do here.

I actually give them a fair amount of towncred for the way they scumread me early because I was posting/efforting so much in the other Blitz game as it was ending and hadn't started doing my thing yet here. That made sense from a town mindset

meta means very little to me, i dont really use it, it can be twisted and manipulated by both the player themselves from game to game and by people using it to back up points.

That post was not about meta though...

He was saying he hadn't effort posted here yet because he was wrapping up that game.

[Nauci]

i felt like nauci had been trying to pocket me for a bit there though and she only started pushing me after i called that out, which i found even weirder

Would you ever like to expand on why you think I'm being "weird" or was supposedly trying to pocket you?

I have no idea what you're referring to. I cleared up your meta so that it wouldn't be easy for scum to push your outbursts as low hanging fruit because that benefits town, but I never gave you a town read or was particularly nice to you

[Nauci]

The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:

You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!

VOTE: popopopopopo

This post claiming issues with my vote is leaving out the VITAL fact that I am norwe's vote slave. In doing that, he completely misrepresented my supposed reasoning for switching votes. The push feels fake and based off a misrep. Norwe was cranking the pressure up pretty hard my man guilty needed a release.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.

i mean who tf knows with this guy. He wants to nolynch, then he wants to quick lynch. Idk his alignment but certified VI

I agree with everything here.

VOTE: popopo

This was quick vote on me i fucked up the tags
I've only played with quikc town. in those games he was prone to crackpot theories, unorthodox pushes like he was going at truth with. BUT This vote is very weak especially after all his other interactions he hops on me with GL because of GLs bad and misrepping post.

VOTE: popo

Lol ill be phone posting all weekend but look at this dudes iso its all townreads and then a naked hop on me. Could be the worst vote on my wagon. This guy is straight cruising and found an easy spot to park his vote but I ain't mislynch bait like that bro.

LicketyQuickety - town lean his vote on me was bad but quick likes an illogical bad push as much as anyone so it doesnt surprise me he voted me. his incessant pushing on truth early feels town motivated coming from this particular player.
NorwegianboyEE - town lean i explained already
Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree
osuka - null town feels like a saudade type player where he just calls people retards and argues. hard to read, but the argument with truth seemed genuine enough
Truth - any read i have is irrelevant, mechanics will sort. im more inclined to believe the claim than not.
Glitch - null seems like a noob. i find this type of player hard to sort. at least looks like hes trying.
Nauci - null his early posts pinged me as forced, he has been posting more thoughtfully since.
Candy Shop - null dont really have an impression of this slot, this is the NL guy right? ok i checked his ISO. idk
ndmath - null no impression of this slot
mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look
GuiltyLion - scum lean i explained
Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game

Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree

Are you talking about this?

Spoiler:

Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever / rozyrozNDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci

Looker didn't even give reads - he just said which slots were good info lynches?

yes thats what I was talking about.

mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look

Why is this weird? He said he was in the middle of catching up earlier.

the timing is suspicious. It could also be a coincidence i grant u.

Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game

Which townreads do you disagree with?

Its less about me disagreeing with them that it is the way you hand them out.

Cat scratch leans town on quick and nauci, then he semi- walks back the nauci read after a light prod by norwe (203). Then he town reads norwe and osuka, and hops on guilty for no real reason

lol this game is going to be a clash of egos huh

I'm townreading Norway and I think osuka is townish. Still think Quick is prob town but he seems to have trouble getting his point across

VOTE: guiltylion

Notice he doesnt call guilty scum here. Doesn't really provide a reason for his vote at all.

In fact cat scratch never calls GL scum, except he does post this

I think Quick and Osuka are TvT right now, and this back and forth is rapidly growing tiring to follow. Why don't we all hug it out and vote GuiltyLion or something

So here there is a push for more votes on guilty. He's never called guilty even scummy tho? But he's voted for him and called for others to vote him. Then he votes for me, with no explanation of either his original guilty read or his new vote on me. He provided a reason for the vote on me when I pressed him.

I'd vote cat but guilty is likely his partner so ill stick with nii chan for now

BTW cats vote on me was sheeping GLs attack on me after already voting for GL and calling for others to vote there. A bizarre turnaround.

So GL OMGUSd me and started a counter wagon to deflect attention and his partner cat hopped on innocuously a couple votes in?
Sometimes its just that easy

vote: cat scratch

GL last couple pages was ok

after sleeping on it and the last back and forth im not as confident on the GL/cat scratch scumteam. Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.

I still think lions push one me is bad, but his aw shucks demeanor and trying to see things from norwes POV make me feel less strongly about it. I'd like more votes on cat his iso pre voting me is very poor as I've laid out.

Considering how all of these posts from popopopopo talk about why he scumreads CSF, I don't think I buy that you genuinely think it was exclusively because he thought that voteslaving would get him lynched that he voted elsewhere, Glitch.

[mavsfan41]

VOTE: Norwegian

I don’t like their progression to Nauci especially since being so keen that GuiltyLion was scum even as recently as 729 & 735. Quickety’s 754 suggests Nauci. This is where it starts. So the progression of Norwegian’s 755 to the eventual vote in 762 just seems forced without looking forced in a way Norwegian could vote but before that, test the waters to see if he’d look scummy. I don’t think town!Norweigan jumps from SR’ing GuiltyLion as recently as 729 & 735 to picking the “safest” option of Quickety’s suggestions and then votes Nauci after osuka’s blessing in 761. This seems forced to me especially with 729 and the development of how quickly he starts suspecting Nauci to how quickly he votes. This would mean that Norwegian now SRs Nauci more than GuiltyLion? Seems weird.

@Truth: as for you 808, if no one dies that doesn’t necessarily mean you were saved. It means whomever the doctor targeted during the night is town (unless for whatever reason scum decides not to make a kill N1 which I highly doubt would be the case). I seriously don’t believe that the doctor would ever target you and I seriously doubt scum is going to NK you.

[Glitch]

That's a cool quote wall but it's a misrep of what I said in 812

And if you're scum you've been

planning your easy slide out of sheeping Norway to vote a nice easy one on Cat Scratch as you've planted shallow reasoning for Cat to be on your scum list

since 536.

popo knew his time was coming to abandon ship with the vote slave drama and if he's town he's genuinely been reading CSF scummy for a long time and therefore voted when he got off the vote slave ship,

or

he's scum and he's been planning carefully how to get off this vote slave ship since 536.

lean scum so my vote stays on him until I go back and re-read through some past stuff particularly on GL that I've been wanting to do for a while, and hopefully I'll be able to get in a full read in of the whole thread tonight.

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.

Considering how many of us picked up on that, idk why you'd think it was insincere

You post a catch up on posts from many days ago with no spectacular or original insights and then disappeared completely again without giving thoughts on anything past like, page 11

That's a pretty classic sign of demotivated scum posting this catch up was equally underwhelming and I hope in the next several pages you elaborated on your reads list

There's no reason for them to be demotivated Scum tho...

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Norwegian

I don’t like their progression to Nauci especially since being so keen that GuiltyLion was scum even as recently as 729 & 735. Quickety’s 754 suggests Nauci. This is where it starts. So the progression of Norwegian’s 755 to the eventual vote in 762 just seems forced without looking forced in a way Norwegian could vote but before that, test the waters to see if he’d look scummy. I don’t think town!Norweigan jumps from SR’ing GuiltyLion as recently as 729 & 735 to picking the “safest” option of Quickety’s suggestions and then votes Nauci after osuka’s blessing in 761. This seems forced to me especially with 729 and the development of how quickly he starts suspecting Nauci to how quickly he votes. This would mean that Norwegian now SRs Nauci more than GuiltyLion? Seems weird.

@Truth: as for you 808, if no one dies that doesn’t necessarily mean you were saved. It means whomever the doctor targeted during the night is town (unless for whatever reason scum decides not to make a kill N1 which I highly doubt would be the case). I seriously don’t believe that the doctor would ever target you and I seriously doubt scum is going to NK you.

It's actually Townie for Norway to sheep me as Town though. Reason being is he hates playing against me as Scum for obvious reasons, namely, that I pushed for his lynch HARD in 2/2 games I played with him where he was Scum.

[mavsfan41]

@Quickety: so it’s not only that he sheep’ed you, that’s just one component. It’s that he switched off GuiltyLion to develop a SR very quickly on Nauci and only voted AFTER osuka’s 761 as a response to that post. I think town!Norwegian votes Nauci before osuka’s post. That felt like he was worried he might appear scummy to vote Nauci but after osuka’s post, felt like he could much easily defend his vote or play it off if challenged on it.