I have looked long and hard at this post, and the "Yuck!" bit is what pings me the most. Getting on the Arthur wagon , including the reasons for doing so, aren't that bad and certainly no worse than votato's equally-likely-to-be-scum-motivated post and vote below.In post 124, brassherald wrote:Hey, guys, don't vote me if I'm acting like Scum, that's just how I naturally play. Yuck!
VOTE: Arthur
It's L-2.
First thing that caught my eye.In post 786, Micc wrote:I get why you might feel empathy in this situation, but transitioning that into a read is a mistake. LQ can have all these playstyle based things that make him look like mafia when he's town, but he'll also have them as mafia. He can claim, and he has, that he's so good at playing as mafia that none of those things are present, but it won't be true. At the end of the day, your empathy for LQ doesn't affect his alignment, it just adds to your baseline for what LQ may be thinking at any given time.
i'm not going to deny this was an awful vote on an awful wagon. if this is the thing that you ultimately base your decision on I won't have a problem with it. At least we'll be able to agree in post game that the second half of day 2 is the point where town lost the game.
Are you waiting for a response from me? Or is there more to come from you?In post 802, LicketyQuickety wrote:First thing that caught my eye.In post 786, Micc wrote:I get why you might feel empathy in this situation, but transitioning that into a read is a mistake. LQ can have all these playstyle based things that make him look like mafia when he's town, but he'll also have them as mafia. He can claim, and he has, that he's so good at playing as mafia that none of those things are present, but it won't be true. At the end of the day, your empathy for LQ doesn't affect his alignment, it just adds to your baseline for what LQ may be thinking at any given time.
I don't think Tl is actually going, "I really feel empathetic towards LQ so I think he's Town." That seems like a gross mischaracterization of how Tl is getting his read on me.
Let's start there and see what happens.
More waiting to see if Micc would combat what I said. Don't necessarily "expect" a response.In post 804, Town looter wrote:Are you waiting for a response from me? Or is there more to come from you?In post 802, LicketyQuickety wrote:First thing that caught my eye.In post 786, Micc wrote:I get why you might feel empathy in this situation, but transitioning that into a read is a mistake. LQ can have all these playstyle based things that make him look like mafia when he's town, but he'll also have them as mafia. He can claim, and he has, that he's so good at playing as mafia that none of those things are present, but it won't be true. At the end of the day, your empathy for LQ doesn't affect his alignment, it just adds to your baseline for what LQ may be thinking at any given time.
I don't think Tl is actually going, "I really feel empathetic towards LQ so I think he's Town." That seems like a gross mischaracterization of how Tl is getting his read on me.
Let's start there and see what happens.
So where do you interject empathy exactly? Like why does it have to be this thing about "empathy"? That kinda seems manipulative pushing a narrative that isn't really thereIn post 806, Micc wrote:didn't he literally explain that while there is mafia motivation and inconsistencies on the way that LQ made that push, he understands that it could come from town!LQ. Part of the reason he thinks this is because he himself is prone to making similar pushes as town. And all of this came as a response to me questioning the read he made based on meta that you were town.
and my response to him was: sure, just be careful because no matter what LQ tells you, the pushes he makes when he's mafia are at least as likely to have mafia motivation and inconsistencies. No one is inherently scummy as town and not as mafia. So at the very most these playstyle things you've pulled from the meta aren't good indications of alignment, can you try something else.
Don't see the word "Empathy, Empathize" or its variants here. Where did you pull that from?In post 785, Town looter wrote:There is a bunch of stuff, but it mostly comes back to me empathising with someone who seems to have similar play as I do. Not similar in approach or style, but similar in the sense we both seem to be regularly read as scum. I found myself thinking that any case I built on LQ would be, in a sense, identical to the one he built on me - and there is a case there (minor scum motivations, little inconsistencies, etc.). So I am sort of applying some super dodgy logic that if his case can be semi-legit, but wrong, its possible mine can as well.
So then if you step back and think about motivations, Scum!LQ doesn't really have any interest in throwing shade at me. The easiest path to his win condition would have been stay consistent with the reads he had earlier in the game, and pocket me. You would've fought him, but you are fighting him anyway, so the risk of him being outplayed in a 1v1 was largely moot. Conversely Town!LQ has every reason to investigate and pressure me. He doesn't know I am town (well, he does now), and there was a real scenario based on vote records that I was scum (I wish I was that good...). On the surface it looks very much like proactive scum-hunting.
On the other hand, you haven't really bothered to pressure me at all. You have largely tunnelled LQ and, at times, white knighted me. This kind of aligns with a Scum!Micc scenario.
That being said, there is lots of WIFOM here, and this isn't LQs first rodeo, so I am feeling like its about 60/40 right now.
Okay, so here it is. But uh... Not sure how you mean to say Tl has built a case out of that?In post 785, Town looter wrote:There is a bunch of stuff, but it mostly comes back to me empathising
In post 812, Town looter wrote:@MOD:It may have been covered, but I couldn't find it anywhere, would Mikul be informed his action failed due to being roleblocked?
Ok slightly different question. If I wasn't town-confirmed, would you be reading me as town or scum (assume we are just prior to me being confirmed as town), and why?In post 815, LicketyQuickety wrote:It feels weird to just... IDK, make a case on command?
I feel Micc has been more or less manipulative in what he is saying and isn't actually looking at what people are saying and tends to put an emphasis on putting his own spin on things that gives him a more favorable narrative.
/shrug
I think it was more that I was SRing Micc more at the time.In post 818, Town looter wrote:Ok slightly different question. If I wasn't town-confirmed, would you be reading me as town or scum (assume we are just prior to me being confirmed as town), and why?In post 815, LicketyQuickety wrote:It feels weird to just... IDK, make a case on command?
I feel Micc has been more or less manipulative in what he is saying and isn't actually looking at what people are saying and tends to put an emphasis on putting his own spin on things that gives him a more favorable narrative.
/shrug