Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think it's funny you are too lazy to even post a case on why I'm scum but you try to pretend like you are engaging me in good faith

just ridiculous

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

btw this is why I had a pretty strong suspicion you and SS were scum even on D2 before DSJ flipped.

DSJ is full of honesty and feels like he means what he says even though he's a total noob. So many of you and SS's posts are just total BS that feels fake af

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

great now you've made me waste time talking stupid shit to you

congrats I guess, another derailment

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Skitter,


I’m not sure how to begin this letter to you, it’s been a pretty wild game. I’m sorry for many of the things I’ve put you and the town through. I’ve done many stupid things this game and I deeply regret them, I shouldn’t have pushed aldus out on D1, that was an error in overconfidence on my part. I shouldn’t have fake-claimed vig without checking with the moderator, it was sloppy and dumb but done with the intention of hopefully getting the mafia to nightkill me - I had no idea they had some stupid MFD ability to bypass me in the first place. I should have stood harder on my dsj-town read but I allowed myself to get caught up in wishful thinking. Most of all I regret not pushing harder for my own lynch on D2. I think if I had flipped town bomb on D2 it would’ve put TW’s roleclaim in much more of a dire condition and hopefully give dsj the breathing room he needed to survive at lylo. I guess I was selfish - I didn’t make the right play there and now I find myself stuck being the LHF-lynch at lylo. A lylo set up by TW/SS who engineered the dsj lynch over me. I feel tremendous regret over many aspects of my play this game. The fact that I’m sitting here at 5:00 AM writing this letter to you over a stupid internet game should really speak to the volume of how badly I feel for having misplayed my hand here - because my lynch here tonight really is the end for the town.

Why do I care so much about this loss? I really don’t understand it myself to be honest with you. I should’ve stopped checking in to this game a while ago but I feel a deep sense of resentment almost at TW/SS who have not really presented much of a case against me/raven and continue to snipe at us in the thread with their fake smiles pretending to engage us in conversation when they are just using logical fallacy and thinly veiled bullshit to make us run in circles. It’s so incredibly frustrating playing this game from my position and raven’s position and I’m not sure you understand how we feel. I think I honestly would’ve been better off replacing out of this game on D1. I wrote the PM out to Micc several times during the first wagon of me but I didn’t send it - it was a pretty bad choice - another one that I regret. I think I might just be addicted to arguing with people online - I’m quite shy in real life and tend to not have the same confidence I feel when I’m typing things out from behind a computer screen - it takes me a while to get comfortable enough to talk to someone and this I guess is a form of therapy for me.

I know you are very suspicious of me from the things I did in coalition, Datisi was as well from the start of the game and I was unduly harsh on him as a result of that. I regret my actions from D1 deeply, I should not have lashed out at him the way I did - he is genuinely a good guy and did not deserve that. In many ways I think the game would’ve progressed much better if I had been replaced out or lynched on the first day - I would’ve spent much less time on this game and the town would have had the distraction of me around for not nearly as long. Another mistake that I made, I guess.

You know I am a very dangerous scum player because I can do a number of very tricky things to win the game - I am very good at faking emotions and tricking myself in a way to think I am town. However I am a planner first and foremost - I enjoy board games and deeper strategy games where you have to plan complicated things out over the long run. If I was scum here - my partner is almost certainly not Raven - it would be someone else that I had worked with to set up to win in the endgame. You know from coalition that I asked aldus to set himself up opposite from me from the very beginning - I played the entire game with my scumpartner hard-bussing me for the entire duration of the game, increasing the difficulty of my own survival because I enjoy the challenge and because I knew it would ultimately lead to victory if I could convince enough townies that I was town and they would look bad in the endgame.

When the endgame for coalition actually began, I did not put up much of a fight, it was only 40ish posts - enough to make the town think I was fighting it but not heavy enough to make them think SS could be not aligned with me or really think out the possible game-states. I told Aldus to hammer me as soon as it was feasible for him to do it because that is the optimal play in that situation.

That is nothing like my play in this game - because I am not scum here.

I have no partner set up to win the game.

I was a clueless 0 info-townside player just like yourself into today. Before Datisi declined to hammer me I had serious doubts to his guilt.

I am fairly close to over 400 posts here - I know effort =/= alignment but you have to consider whether I would be going this hard unless I was a town who knew that my lynch would immediately result in the loss of this game for us. I would not have set up an endgame where myself and my scumpartner raven are sitting ducks to get lynched 1 after the other. I would not spend hundreds of posts hammering you over and over to think about which person makes sense as my partner if I was scum because you figuring out the correct game state means my team would lose if I were scum.

You have thought a long time about this solution as to my partner - you’ve settled on Raven but you know it doesn’t fit. The interactions do not make any sense.

Bugspray doesn’t accidentally near-hammer his own partner in the first hours of D1 - that’s just not an EV-positive play despite how TW/SS keep insisting that bugspray just wouldn’t care and would just randomly hammer his own partner. If that’s the case can they find a single game where bugspray showed up and near-hammered his own mafia partner on the first day of a game? Let alone the first DAY of D1? I don’t think they can.

Raven’s interaction with me also doesn’t make sense - put yourself in her shoes for a moment - your idiot scum-partner Pooky just fake-claimed vigilante and has been exposed by the moderator to be a lying idiot. Is your immediate reaction to be like “well let’s just lynch DSJ instead” or to bus pooky hard and fast? One action makes sense, the other does not, keep in mind that DsJ had raven as a hard town-read so it doesn’t even make sense for her to get rid of him anyway. If the team was Raven/Pooky, Raven would hard-bus Pooky there 100 times out of 100, even if her own instinct was not to, I would be literally begging her in the Scum PT to bus me hard.

You know the other solutions do not fit as well, I’ve gone over the points over and over and if you need me to go over why any other partner does not fit, I am happy to take time to go over it again with you. The fact is I do not have a partner. I am on your side in this game.

Lastly there’s the interaction from page 181-186 where me and raven and Datisi had a discussion that was uncomfortable for all of us. I accused Datisi of some things I should not have and he’s shown himself to be an upstanding gentleman - I was wrong yet again this game in my judgement of a player. I caused emotional duress unintentionally to Raven and I am deeply sorry for what I did to both of them, the actions were stupid and I let myself become overly emotional because I was in a bad place at the time and I deeply regret them - yet another thing I regret doing this game. But if you look at that interaction as uncomfortable as it is to read, it is really too far of a stretch to believe that Raven and I decided to create some scum theater to mess with Datisi.

I think I’ve said enough about why I am not scum here and if there’s something you think makes me very likely to be scum that you think I haven’t addressed - I am more than happy to go over it with you. I’m not sure if you read to the end of this extremely long post but I would be tremendously grateful if you consider my words and give me a chance to change your mind here.

It's been extremely enjoyable playing with you, and I thank you, Datisi, and Raven for having given me the opportunity to try to dig myself out of this hole I've created. In case I wake up and find myself dead, here's a cute Tigger and pooh gif for you. I hope I have the opportunity to play with you again in the future.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- bugs isn't some scum mastermind. honestly i've thought about it some more and give my experience with scum-bugs like i can kinda see him doing that. in my last scumgame with them (i.e. we were partners), they lolhammered day1 like 24 hours into the day and fucked over the gamestate and i got tilted to the point where i repped out cuz i couldn't figure out where to go from there after they messed with the gamestate in like three different ways and actively ignored in-thread what we talked about in the scum pt. so uh yeah. after reviewing that experience not sure their e-1 vote on u is clearing.

yes I can see bugs lol-hammering on D1 but they don't do that to their own teammate do they? sure they ignore what you told them in the scum PT but do they ignore your existence and just lol-hammer you in the first hours of D1? It's a pretty big stretch from scum using their meta to try to get away with a lol-hammer and scum lol-hammering their own partner.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but i'm not sure where else to vote and ss saying that if pooky is town we've also kinda already lost is kinda compelling too

I don't get why we have already lost if I am town.

I think if you conclude I am town here - the only possible scum are TW//SS and we will win if we elim them one after the other

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- i'm p sure i'm the main reason dsjstr went through in the end (uh, sorry) so the quote above about tw/ss engineering it is revisionist

Yes you were the main push behind dsj, raven helped as well, but both TW and SS supported pushing out dsj over me.

Think for a second about this game from TW's shoes - why would TW decide to push DSJ over Pooky at that point? A Pooky red flip makes him almost certainly town since the town would have only 1 PR if he was scum - why would both SS and TW decide it's better to push DSJ instead?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I have literally nothing to say to you.

I know you are scum.

If you want to make a case to skitter then make it on your own time, don't interrupt me in the middle of my posting and try to knock me off course with random distracting posts.

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING TO YOU AT ALL.

If you want to make some case to skitter - then do so yourself and I will stay offline until you are done talking then I will resume making my posts.

I do not want to interact with you in any way.

I'm sorry about this post but I really had it up to here with SS/TW making snipy 1 comments to derail my thoughts when I'm already well on the way to losing.

In FTF mafia and the old days, usually scum had the decency to let the victims of lylo make their pleas without trying to make bad-faith one-liners to distract and deflect.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i followed coalition quite closely while it happens and there's several things that happened there that mirror what's happening here (i quoted in the spoiler), and that's not something i can just ignore

I'd like to think there are some pretty obvious differences between my play in coalition and my play here

the most obvious difference being that I offered myself up for lynch on D2 with a conditional solve depending on night actions - I never did that in Coalition, I pushed whatever mis-elim I could push every day.


the other difference is that today in lylo I've made nearly 10x as many posts as I did in coalition because I am in a state of desperation here whereas in coalition I don't really care nearly as much.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- i actually kinda believe you would not have let this scum-raven/scum-pooky endgame to play out ... but i find the other possibilities to be even less likely so this is where i'm at

Why do you find a TW/SS scum-team even less likely? I don't think you've ever articulated that and I really don't get what in their play makes them so "townie" to you. Even before today on D2 they were my top pick for the scum-team - before DSJ even flipped or Datisi showed he had to be town by not hammering me and Raven went all in on defending me today. So I'm really confused why they are sooo much more unlikely to be the scum-team for you?

Yes Koba played very well in the first 2 or 3 days they were here but I don't think 2 or 3 days of play is enough to carry an entire game? What independently have TW/SS done that make you think "this can't possibly be the scum-team?"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- raven going after dsjstr and not you during hte bomb thing is a point in favor of partners, not against it

"Your scum-partner's fake-claim has just been debunked by the Moderator in public, do you immediately bus him or push a different player as the mis-elim?"

I think if you gave that question to 1000 mafia players - nearly every one of them would pick to bus. It is much better EV for scum to bus in that scenario and DSJ is not really a priority elim for Raven, the fact that DSJ locktown'd Raven meant that she would never really be in a threat from his slot anyway and she was one lynch outside lylo - there is really no reason for her not to sacrifice me at that point.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- bugs isn't some scum mastermind.

this is exactly why bugs wouldn't near-lol-hammer their own partner in D1 - they don't make those kind of plays.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

pooky my read on u is tghat u care about scum like 10x as much as u care about town, and that you're really passionate/driven and will do whatevr u can to win a scumgame, whereas u don't care as much about town
and that in coalition u didn't care about getting hammered cuz aldu was set up to win if u get voted out

i kinda think it's time. i'll address whatever's on this page cuz i'm bad at not answreing things but i really odn't think i'm changing my mind at this point

I can show you a town game in which I really tryharded really recently if you think that would change your mind.

I also did not try-hard at all in that scumgame where I replaced into Koba's slot

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What I try-hard has to do with where my focus is - not on what my role is. If I don't get into a game, I am just not going to try-hard it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yes that's my point - in coalition I didn't really care because the hammer on me isn't the end of the game like it is here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry i had to get the pagetop. anway i've been rereading around page 126 where mod confirmed pooky's claim was fake and idk raven's reaction seemed a biiiiit... tmi? in like "i still want to execute dsjstr, but let's see what pooky claims now" and like idk?

pooky claims (4673) that he first asked to get executed in 3435 and that it was risky but shorty after the vig/bomb fiasco but before that post the tides were pretty turned around against dsjstr...

theoretically i could mabye see an s_s/raven team deciding "oh shit pooky's gonna be a great misexecture tomorrow let's get dsjstr today and pooky in lylo" but like... is this s_s/raven??? i don't think it is?????

do you really think raven is lying today about how she feels super ignored trying to save me and nobody wants to listen to her? I really don't think she's lying here - there's just no reason for scum-raven to make this play unless she thinks there's a real chance I survive today or if she thinks she needs to act like a plausible partner to Pooky in order to secure the Pooky-lynch. But I just really don't see her playing it that way.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

town game in which I really tryharded really recently if you think that would change your mind.

plz

ok I msged the fogey section mod to give you access but this is the link:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=82687

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry i had to get the pagetop. anway i've been rereading around page 126 where mod confirmed pooky's claim was fake and idk raven's reaction seemed a biiiiit... tmi? in like "i still want to execute dsjstr, but let's see what pooky claims now" and like idk?

pooky claims (4673) that he first asked to get executed in 3435 and that it was risky but shorty after the vig/bomb fiasco but before that post the tides were pretty turned around against dsjstr...

theoretically i could mabye see an s_s/raven team deciding "oh shit pooky's gonna be a great misexecture tomorrow let's get dsjstr today and pooky in lylo" but like... is this s_s/raven??? i don't think it is?????

don't think raven in ss/raven decides to align with pooky to push ss in lylo
and agree with u on raven around the bomb/vig thing, i quoted that a few pages back

yes but there is just no way raven as my partner decides to not bus me there instead of pushing dsj instead - it's just unfathomably bad play if she and I were scum together.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh didn't realize it was that game

I played a few games in the fogey section before venturing out into the main site - I was invited by some friends from back in the day to play mafia with them when the pandemic first started - but the game where I try-harded and the game where I got lynched in lylo are different games.

I have the tendency to really be able to focus on one thing at a time and I won't put nearly as much effort into multiple games. If you look at my scumplay between coalition and nomination mafia, they are completely different because I only cared about the coalition game - I don't really choose what to care about - some games just feel more important to me. This really is not alignment indicative in any way. I think my commitment to this game far exceeds what I put into coalition and it's not because I'm scum here - it's because I'm town and my lynch is going to end the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the fact that tw mechanically is very likely to be town and the fact that you're a smart dude but you're pushing for this anyways

I don't understand how TW mechanically is very likely to be town.

I haven't played much of the modern meta so I can't claim to be some kind of mech genius but could you please explain again why mechanically speaking TW must be town here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I can talk thru the mech with datisi then? I know TW/SS are the scum pushing the lie here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like here's the setup as I understand it.

The moderator randomly selects 9 games, he then creates a game with roles from those 9 games.

A lover without a lover is functionally equivalent to a vanilla townie
A neighbor without a neighbor is functionally equivalent to a vanilla townie
A neighbor bodyguard without a neighbor is functionally equivalent to a regular bodyguard.

Since none of the roles are from the same game - they would not form "hoods" or "love-pairs" The existence of a neighbor or a lover does not imply or not imply the existence of another lover/neighbor.

Claiming "neighborless bodyguard neighbor" is just a fake claim like any other - it has no real reason to be more or less likely to exist on purely mechanical reason. Please tell me what I'm not seeing here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dats what are u thinking rn?

i'm thinking about going for a walk and trying to forget about this game for a little while longer, why?

enjoy your walk dats

stay safe

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

yes it's weird from a townie but it's beyond suicidal dumb if we were S/S together.

Like I wanted to lynch myself that day and I KNEW what my role pm was.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

well the bg bit apparently, the neighbor bit is just icing on the cake given that dats is claiming loveless lover

apparently we need the bg to be balanced against mfd

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and like... i think he's town on mechanics. i think the bg claim is town and makes more sense with mfd than a bomb and the neighbourless neighbour is like ~symmetry~ and i guess kinda ~poetic~ with a loverless lover and i know that can be a fakeclaim but it just strikes me as something scum simply isn't likely to fakeclaim???

Why isn't scum likely to fake-claim neighborless neighbor? there is no risk to it, it's an added detail that makes the lie seem more real.

Also the scum knew about the MFD so they knew a BG claim would not really put them in the spot where town could go "hey you didn't protect XXX you must be a bad person!" like they knew they had an out if they failed to protect skitter...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because they are Roles That Come In Pairs. like idk how else to explain it. my existence doesn't 100% imply his and vice versa but but it's... idk nice in a way? like i don't know how else to explain it but it just seems like too much of a coincidence for scum to fakeclaim pairless pair role and here to actually be a single pairless pair role in town???

why would the mod put in 2 roles that come in pairs and allow the town to conf 2 more town when he already put in a conf town FN?

That would be 3 conf town roles in a 9p vs 2 scum?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

i didn't really think about it, i'm not good at mechanics and usually let other people work that bit out

ok but if people really thought that only 1 of me/TW was going to be a TPR and the game makes more sense with 2 TPRs than 3, the correct play on D2 is to lynch one of us to determine the other.

Like a red pooky flip heavily implies green TW and vice-versa.

a green Pooky flip doesn't mean TW must be scum but it puts tremendous pressure on him to protect successfully or face getting wagoned

that's what I was trying to go for with the self-lynch on D2 but I didn't put it exactly in those terms because I choked hard that day,

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm gonna quote a mastina adage: scum like to try to make the possible ~probable~

like techincally scum!tw could have been informed of loverless!dats and known about the mfd and come up with that exact fake-claim
is it probable tho? not really

I don't think scum!TW knew about loverless dats

I think that was a stroke of luck for TW.

However there was no downside for him to add Neighborless to his BG claim, or the only BG in the safeclaim games they were dealt was a BG Neighbor.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

TW knew he needed a good claim if you conf-towned yourself

he couldn't kill you because if you flip green he's likely to get pushed D2 so the line he played was to claim BG as its a role thats unlikely to be pushed

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wow if only there weren't people hard pushing for dsjstr!!!

well you and I were both trying to get me lynched and I tried to defend dsj as best as I could but I failed.

You really should think about why TW wanted DSJ lynched instead of me - that play really makes no sense from his POV if TW is town tpr.

because from TW's POV

1) If 3 TPR is unlikely - then he knows Pooky is scum far more likely scenario than DSJ->scum

2) Pooky flipping red makes TW green basically guranteed since the game is unlikely to be balanced with 1 TPR

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think the reason why TW/DSJ both ended up wanting DSJ lynched over Pooky was because they knew Pooky flipping green would mechanically make TW's position in the lylo much much weaker and make it harder to lynch DSJ as the other mislynch since Pooky defended dsj.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

walcc time. i'll be back at some point in this century.

have a good walk

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if there's no other pairless paired role in the game, does neighborless neighbor look more scummy? I don't see why it would - the moderator is selecting games at random - if he selects a game with all paired roles, by definition there would be a pairless pair in this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like Datisi's point about 2 pairless paired roles in this game feeling "poetic" isn't really mech in nature ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

(2) what if there were actual neighbours in the game??? tw fakeclaims neighbours then??? how does he talk himself out of being a neighbour in no hood??

like this point here.

If there was actually a neighbor role in this game, it would really have no bearing on TW's neighbor BG claim would it? Like 2 neighbors pulled from 2 different games wouldn't be automatically put into the same "hood" that doesn't make much sense mechanically at all.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok let's ask the moderator then

@Micc

if there are two or more neighbors in the game picked up from different Micros, would they be put into the same "hood" ?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and is this not the same from your POV...? and even moreso, because you apparently read dsjstr correctly? wouldn't have it made more sense to push tw since the red flip there basically conftowns you?

well I wanted myself to be lynched. I wasn't completely sure if TW was town or scum but I was going to give him the night to prove himself by giving him the chance to protect skitter - that's why my proposal for self-lynch included this:

lets say i am lynched today.

assuming tw dies in the night and flips bg and someone else confirms skitter as FM tommorrow, then I think the scum would be SS/Raven in the endgame.

if tw doesnt die and skitter dies- I think there is a strong chance tw/SS are the scum.

if datisi dies and tw lives - I also think it would be tw/SS as scum but this is the hardest scenario imo.

From TW's POV he should've also wanted me to be lynched in order to show that he is definitely green.

If the actual belief is that there should only be 2 TPRs to balance the game, then it should make sense for TW to push me as D2 lynch - not DSJ

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but this is the case with me, not with duck... his game had "normal" "unpaired" roles... like if i was the only claimed unpaired pair role sure, but if he was then you wouldn't be able to make that argument...

look you know the scum have roughly 7 games to make their fakeclaims from according to the last YoM - and you know TW is doing a TPR claim to protect himself when skitter conf-towns on D2 so he doesn't get pushed. If the best TPR to fake-claim in those 7 scum-games is a Neighbor Bodyguard, why wouldn't he do it? They have the MfD to give him an out when he fails to protect..

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sigh. the actual answer to that doesn't actually... matter? it's a theme game.

my point is that i think it's fairly intuitive to conclude "hey if there are two neighbours in this game, they are going to be put in the hood together" and the fact that you're arguing that that's actually mechanically counterintuitive just feels... bad faith.

I don't know mechanics that well, I literally just started playing contemporary forum mafia a few months ago - my confusion about whether neighbors would be put in the same neighborhood is not some bad faith bs.

and if TW was making a fake-claim as BG neighbor do you really think he wouldn't ask the moderator this question in private?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but... scum!tw actually gains much much more by having you executed day two instead of pushing dsjstr?

because he can still mark skitter (therefore has an excuse why the bodyguard ability didn't get used) and someone like you who's pushing him is dead and also i look way way worse upon your green flip AND dsjstr is still there in the day three lylo and also raven who's dead tunnelled on him is there and...

no because my dying case is that TW/SS are the 2 scum if TW doesn't successfully protect skitter.

you know my opinions are coming from a town person because I flip green and I feel strongly enough about them to die to verify them.

Also having me flip green TPR makes his TPR claim much much weaker and SS then can't say that the existence of a MFD means BG HAS to exist because there would literally be a flipped green bomb role in the dead pile.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but that's not what we were talking about? you were arguing that "if he claims an unpaired role from a game full of unpaired roles then it's not necessarily scummy" and i said that's not the case because 930 wasn't that setup so why are you turning the conversation over to this now?

I think you misunderstand my original point about unpaired roles existing in this game.

like I'm saying that the moderator can put any number of unpaired roles into the game - but the existence of 1 unpaired role does not imply the existence of other unpaired roles...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he probably would? i don't know?

but like... the solve two neighbours in the game, not being put in the same hood...

Ok so if TW asks the moderator this question, "would neighbors from different games be put into the same hood"

and the moderator response was "no"

then there really is no risk for TW to claim Neighbor BG right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My point is that if the town believes that 3 TPR is too much for this game and there should only be 2 TPR then me flipping green TPR makes TW look pretty bad in the lylo no?

and you death-tunneling me from D1 and me flipping green doesn't make you look worse imo because it doesn't make much sense for scum to go full death-tunnel on a town player in D1

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like if anything it made way more sense to lynch me yesterday than today.

1. You resolve the Pooky - TW TPR issue

2. DSJ hadn't flipped Green like Pooky said yet

3. Pooky had just fake-claimed Vig/Bomb

4. You didn't know of the existence of an MfD which makes Bomb as a role make much much more sense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

there was still risk that we would call bullshit on his neighbourless neighbour claim, considering he was fairly scumread at the time.

but that's the same risk that exists for any role right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Dats I don't want you to get frustrated talking this out with me - we are on the same team here.

But is there any actual mechanical reason why TW has to be town here? Because I don't really see anything from you other than you think it would look "nice or poetic" as you put it earlier to have 2 pairless roles in the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My point is that if the town believes that 3 TPR is too much for this game and there should only be 2 TPR then me flipping green TPR makes TW look pretty bad in the lylo no?

and you death-tunneling me from D1 and me flipping green doesn't make you look worse imo because it doesn't make much sense for scum to go full death-tunnel on a town player in D1

*if*. the main word is *if*. the town *doesn't know* how many TPRs there are. i've seen a town believe that 4 town PR claims are true. lylo is one hell of a drug.

and even if tw gets executed in lylo. then what. you *still* have me looking kinda shit from that tunnel and you *still* have raven tunneled on dsjstr.

I was honestly hoping that me dying would somehow dislodge raven from dsj(because I claimed he was def town in my read) and dislodge you from the tunnel on me. It's a long shot but I think it was better odds than what's happening today

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm not frustrated. the fact i'm conftown to you and you can't spin this around into a push on me is keeping me calm.

ok but I'm not trying to win an argument here - I'm just trying to get you on my page because we share the same win condition and it's hard when I feel you dig in more every time I explain things and I don't know how to reach you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But is there any actual mechanical reason why TW has to be town here? Because I don't really see anything from you other than you think it would look "nice or poetic" as you put it earlier to have 2 pairless roles in the game.

i literally already said that, when talking purely of mechanics, there is nothing making the worst 100% undeiably undoubtably guaranteeing town like

ok that's basically what I was going for - because skitter thinks TW is mech-town based on your mech read.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh gee i wonder why you claimed bomb

I'm really a bomb.

If I was setting up a fake-claim with a MfD to make it more believable I wouldn't fake-claim vig first.

My entire play in regards to the fake-claim and softing TPR is to try to draw a NK so I could blow up scum. I had no idea scum had some kind of MfD move to bypass bomb completely.

Like if I'm scum - I really wouldn't set up my bomb fake-claim with a vig fake-claim first - that's just insanely dumb to do and usually leads to auto-lynch on the spot.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

we all kind of share the same life here

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my friend gave you access to the fogey section if you want to read my tryhard town game skitter:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=82687

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but that's really just guessing at what role the moderator would include in the game

and if its mechanically the more sensible role to have in the game, its also mechanically the more sensible role for scum to claim.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am extremely moody in games that I get irrationally committed into

it comes from an incredible lack of emotional maturity

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you should see how many uh stupid moody explosions I have in that game as town

it's kind of ridiculous -.-

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but you see how I do try-hard as town too right? my effort level is not alignment indicative - I will focus hard on a game if I am interested in it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

did you read my other emotional blowups from that game? it's quite amazing how worked up I can get over a stupid internet game

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

right, but you're not really making endless pages of bad-faith arguments there, and as best as i can tell, you aren't going as ~hard~ there either (although, tbf, that might be a function of the sort of game it is

well if you look at the activity overview from that game, I had almost 100 posts more than #2 and 300 more posts than number 3. I had to actively restrict my posting so it wouldn't be too much for the town to read because most of them were not playing as actively as contemporary mafia players would.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and you keep saying this thing about bad faith but you have to understand in my mind this kind of stuff does make sense to me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this blowup is a doozy:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11790682

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this page where i begin going after ambic is also pretty bad:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1075

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no because they did prefer dsj to pooky - in the game you are reading the scum were happy to mostly sit on voting nobody

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why are we even talking about emotional blowups again

because you said one of the reasons for suspecting me as scum was

pooky my read on u is tghat u care about scum like 10x as much as u care about town, and that you're really passionate/driven and will do whatevr u can to win a scumgame, whereas u don't care as much about town
and that in coalition u didn't care about getting hammered cuz aldu was set up to win if u get voted out

I'm showing you a game where I cared tremendously about winning as town to show you that I do put massive effort into playing town well.

The emotional blowups are proof of my emotional commitment to a game where I am town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no? if scum-tw and scum-ss town has been lurching from from one dumb wagon to the next and town is nowhere close to lynching scum

the game was set up yesterday as dsj/pooky being the Low hanging fruits that would be lynched in order to get to a scum win. The scum did not really have to do anything - hence why ScumSS/TW do not really put much effort into solving the game.

When I suggested that I should be lynched on D2 and that my dying wish was that you guys see DSJ as a town and SS/TW as the 2 likely scum - that throws a wrench into SS/TW's plans - hence why they both end up supporting DSJ-lynch on D2 over Pooky lynch.

This doesn't make sense from TW-Town perspective because if his role was actually BG and he susp Pooky of being red, he'd want Pooky flipped since he knows Pooky red would clear him and his own role makes it more likely that Pooky is a red.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you're really passionate/driven and will do whatevr u can to win a scumgame, whereas u don't care as much about town

This statement really could not be further from the truth.

If you really take the time to read that game I linked, you will know the level of effort I put into winning as town when I am invested into a game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok fair
but like ... your'e spouting bad faith arguments and you're capable of, like, not

i make a lot of what you would call "bad faith arguments" in the game I linked as well

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

If you really take the time to read that game I linked, you will know the level of effort I put into winning as town when I am invested into a game.

i'm not reading an 80-page game for a game taht's already 200 pages. sorry

ok fair but given that I was the highest post count player in that game and I pushed both exec'd scum out including the scum-ledger holder - correctly IDing him:

And this is very interesting. Because, up and until the Mathcam posts where I asked Pooky point-blank what he would do about Rosso if Mathcam flipped Scum or Town and he would not answer. I tried again and took the line that Mathcam was out and out scum (and in the process Mathcam even suggested I go ahead and vote him for it) and asked Pooky what happens regarding Rosso. Pooky's answers make me worry that he is scum, and unconcerned about Mathcam (either as scum buddy or as town), and in that situation Pooky is the flagbearer without question. Or he is protecting Rosso. There would be a big degree of irony if my Shield strategy that I suggested in the middle of melting down turned out to be correct. But occams razor says that its not correct, and I don't want to become guilty of spiralling again.

I have 3 scenarios in my head and these are the probabilities I am assigning to them.

A(70%) - Mathcam is flagbearer - game over town wins

B(28%) - Mathcam is scum and he vengekills me - You guys figure out the rest - I caught 2 scum and I think it's fair to say I did my part.

C(2%) - Mathcam flips town, I'll take a backseat and follow along with whatever I think the best case is, you and farside can drive the bus. I doubt this is the case.

That kind of implies I put a ton of effort into this game and was very interested in winning it as town right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what's a bop?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Burden of Prociency - you're apparently capable of leading two scum lynches so why haven't you (provably) found scum here yet?

i did... it's TW/SS

I literally said to lynch me yesterday and go after them D3/D4.

That's the most weight any town player can put into a scum-read. Offering his own death to certify his suspicion.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh you're talking about actually leading the lynch of them? well that's because the people in that fogey game have been my friends and played with me for long enough to be convinced when I am in ranting raving pooky mode and you guys clearly do not believe me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like what chance did I have to get TW/SS lynched?

You weren't going to listen to me on D2 - so I offered myself as sacrifice in the hope that you would listen to me on D3 but that didn't work out - you didn't listen to me about DSJ and he bit the bullet instead.

Now it's D3 and I think I'm trying my hardest to get TW/SS lynched but you guys still aren't listening to me.

So it's really unfair I think for you to BoP me and ask me "why haven't you gotten TW/SS lynched yet then?"

I haven't gotten them lynched because you and datisi do not believe me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea cuz SS wins right now when pooky flips green

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

'_'

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

good talk tw

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry dats

i really wanted to win with you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Datisi/Skitter/Raven

imagine yourself in TW's shoes on D2.

You have a BG-role. Pooky has fake-claimed vig, and then switched to bomb. - is there any way you don't hard push the shit out of Pooky and lynch him?

If you think there is only 2 TPRs in the game, the only logical push is to push Pooky.

because

1) You being a TPR means Pooky is not a TPR.

2) Pooky flipping red confirms you as a green in the next day - the game would be severely unbalanced with only 1 TPR so Pooky flipped red is as good as confirming you.

3) You don't have the same worry about being roleblocked and framed if Skitter dies under your protection the next day. What if there is a strongman or a roleblocker on the scum team? Because of (2) you are absolutely safe from mislynch the next day.


Instead TW doesn't choose to push to resolve my slot - he instead goes for low hanging fruit dsj instead - opting to leave Pooky - the other TPR alive for lylo.

This is a huge red flag.

This is not what Town!TW does in this scenario.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh like
I don't know
pooky has clearly identified his win condition as surviving & pulling off a miselim today. that is consistent with the fact you and pooky look aligned and you have tried your absolute hardest to push anything but pooky. I don't really know when you might/might not have thought it would be better to bus?

pedit: yeah sorry it clicked; I'm not really sure I have a strong opinion on it

Raven could easily have bussed me on D2 when the mod said I was lying about my role if we are partners together.

It makes literally 0 sense for her to push her chips in to push a town mis-elim instead because that townie was lock-towning her to begin with and not a threat in any way.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- my super genius 3d chess clutch claim to get out of having conftown!skitter likely waiting for me at the start of D2 is to claim probably the most dubious fakeclaim of all time... I'm not going to self meta why this claim isn't scum!me

if the fakeclaim was dubious then skitter and datisi would not be believing it right now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

- in deciding between towsjstr and pooky I decide that no I don't want to push Pooky over the cliff, I would rather elim dsj. This leaves dsj, who is self claimedly infamously miselimable in xylo dead and pooky, who is transparently heavily invested in the game, alive and ready to push back on me in xylo

Pooky is already mistrusted by the majority of the town - you know datisi has wanted to lynch Pooky since D1.

Also if Pooky is flipped on D2 as town bomb, then your TPR looks a lot worse and DSJ looks a lot better since Pooky hard-defended him even willing to sacrifice his own life.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so if you're town you're also playing this pretty badly.

in which universe is Pooky scum and Raven town and SS town? Can you even come up with a game-state where this makes sense?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so give a scenario where those three things are true - you have just suggested they are right?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea you don't really believe it's Datisi/Pooky, that's like legit not even possible.

Datisi is about 3 lightyears outside his scum-range at this point in terms of fake-able emotion.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the game is over today either way

if you flip me it ends here


if you flip ss, the other one will get flipped tommorrow for sure.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

not useful information, but just saying Datisi would not have to suffer that f3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thats just wifom tho


if scum duck shoots skitter on N1 - duck hangs on d2 for sure

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

btw i reread the end of day 1 and came to a revelation.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so I was going over SS's ISO again to try to build a better case against him and I noticed his read-list at the end of D1 was:

My readlist is like

lilith, pooky
Datisi, Raven
duck
Dsjtdhvgkbcd
Skitter Thirty, Alduskkel

So I went back to this post and began reading around it to try to find a way to poke a holes in it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and I re-read the interactions you had with TW during end of day on D1 where TW was pushing you very hard and Aldus had voted you.

At that point you had been voted by Aldus/TW and SS signalled he was willing to vote you over Aldus - Raven had also began to turn on you a bit.

Datisi unvoted Aldus and might have switched to you - TW was pushing me hard to switch my vote to you. Lilith was also possibly going to switch her vote to you as well.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you made this post:

fuck it, i'm Tired

i've been trying to walk that line between 'scummy enough to not be n1'd' and 'townie enough to not be lynched', which is not super easy to do for me
and hoping that i can catch out scum along the way for being 'weird' for me, which is fun when i can manage it with this sort of pr (see: banner)

i've been softing for a while (and i would argue that the past few posts of mine are me basically jumping up and down and trying to tell you to back off) but have been trying to avoid outright claiming
(cuz, like, me being obv or conftown is great, but i also just die in that universe so like, so not sure how much is actually gained vs. me claiming tomorrow)
but eh

to spell it out: i'm saying that i'm a provably town pr

i currently think that all scum is in {tw, raven, aldu}.

for everyone saying that me/tw aren't tvt ... if i'm provably town, what does that make tw ?

after lilith kind of signaled she was considering to go along with SS:

SS prefers executing you and I’m inclined to just go along with unless I get something that helps me read you better

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this is the reason why lilith got killed on N1

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like it's always been bothering me why the scum chose to kill lilith of all people.

and why did they not use MfD if they had a MfD as it bypasses certain town abilities.

I think the reason is because in D1 you had expressed strong feelings about Lilith as conf-VT and also conversed with her about waiting until tommorrow - the scum took this to mean that you would visit her.

Now I know it's a stretch to assume the scum knew you were a FN - but Koba did say he had an entire spreadsheet with all of the roles in every micro and I don't know exactly what the range of confirmable town prs are - but if they deduced you were a FN - that nightkill choice would make sense.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like how many town PRs can confirm their own innocence at night out of the ones in the micros and also make sense to put into this micro? I honestly don't know the answer to this but if the range is not big and the scum figured out you were likely a FN - that would make their NK choice on lilith make a lot of sense - it also makes their choice to use a normal kill instead of MfD make sense since they do not want lilith to say that you visited her at night.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

think about how good of a position TW/SS would be in on D2 if you had visited Lilith on N1 -

Instead of getting confirmed by Datisi, you would have to say you are a FN who happened to visit the person who scum killed. TW would run you over with a bus at that point - esp with all the work that TW had put into trying to rail you out of the game on D1 - esp towards the end when he put on that push where he had Aldus/himself/SS/Lilith all voting/leaning towards voting you with Raven/Datisi kind of on the fence.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you were trying to mis-elim skitter on Day 1 before she claimed FN

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You had almost enough votes to push skitter out on D1-

Aldus/TW were voting Skitter.

SS said he was leaning towards voting skitter.

Raven was thinking of voting skitter.

Datisi unvoted aldus and was thinking about voting skitter.

You told me you wanted to push skitter before Aldus - you wanted me to vote with you too.

Lilith said she was thinking of voting with SS and offing skitter as well - that's when skitter decided she had to hard-claim confirmable town TPR.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Skitter, have you at all addressed the paranoia about you/duck? (like, in a serious way?)

not really
can i, like, give a serious answer on this tom?
i promise i'll address it tom if we're both still alive and it's still an issue

this post is why you guys decided that skitter was most likely going to visit lilith and night - and why you used a normal nightkill instead of MfD on Lilith - your hope was that she would be killed and unable to confirm skitter being a FN.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm like 90% sure in postgame this will be in your scum PT where you and SS are discussing who to kill to prevent the skitter night-visit from confirming her as town so you can push her on D2.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because Koba had a spreadsheet of every micro game that could've been picked for this setup and he probably put it into the scum PT.

So if you loaded that spreadsheet - it probably shows that the most likely self-confirmable town PR that would make it into this game would be a Friendly Neighbor. - This is just a guess on my part, I have not done the actual work to compile the list of all possible roles that could be here in this game. But I think if I were to spend the time to pull every micro that could be in this game, the data would show this to be true.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

....and putting ourselves into a position where the game is literally the absolute hardest to win it could possibly be for.....the benefit of being able to leave skitter in the PoE in the hopes we could once again outguess her N2 target IF she was a friendly neighbour in the first place....?

this is literally nka wifom

no I think you were hoping to be able to push her out on D2 if her N1 visit ended up being lilith

but since you missed on that you immediately pivoted to claiming a BG.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

think about how good of a position TW/SS would be in on D2 if you had visited Lilith on N1 -

Cept i knew she was dying (coughs at the bg who claimed bg) and so i had decided like mid-day1 (ie dozens of pages before the fn vlaim or i indicated i was a pr) that i wasnt gonna visit her

well according to TW it's unfathomable for lilith to die so that's why he didn't protect her, and also why he thought you would be visiting her. That's why he killed her at night

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

um do you not remember how close he got you to getting elim'd on D1?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you didn't have a confirmable TPR I'm pretty sure lilith and SS vote you and maybe he swings raven or dats too.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Lilith and SS were both saying they were going to vote you near the end of D1 despite SS having Aldus on the same tier as you in his readlist

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like do you think this is a geniune readlist from SS at the end of D1:

My readlist is like

lilith, pooky
Datisi, Raven
duck
Dsjtdhvgkbcd
Skitter Thirty, Alduskkel

Like I was dumb enough to think Skitter/Aldus could've been the scum team cuz I'm literally an idiot who's never played with you before but do you think SS actually thought that you and aldus were scum together?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i am not sure if i actually want to hammer aldus
i just like
wish people would vote skitter because she's scum
) :

I would vote skitter probably

s_s who do you wanna vote for?

Skitter or Alduskkel. I'm pretty agnostic between them.

I think skitter's flip probably helps us more.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I also, tbf, knew i had an ace up my sleeve and was actively playing in a way that i knew would look scummy so i wouldnt, like, die

If i wasnt doing that he doesnt get nearly as close as he did

Yes i was kinda close at the end of the day but i only let it get that close knowing i could claim confirmable pr if necessary and that i dont get voted out if i do

But scum-duck doesn't know you have an ace up your sleeve, he's pushing because you are v scary to him no?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like TW and SS have been working together every day of this game hand in hand.

D1 they pushed you together until you claimed tpr

D2 they were both for dsj

D3 they're together on me

The coop is much cleaner than me/raven who have a very messy history.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think I'd generally just rather stay out of skitter's line of sight? like diving into the crosshairs is a valid strategy with a lot of players but she is very capable of pulling the trigger.

yes but it would be fun for you to do no?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like would you rather try to mis-elim skitter or some random noob like dsj?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

but do you think SS actually thought that you and aldus were scum together?

Just cuz two names are at the bottom of thr lisy doesnt mean they're scum together, no?

that's not how I would do a read list but ok

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like we all play mafia not for "winning the game" or having a good "winning percentage" but do do memorable plays with people we enjoy playing with.

So your argument here:

I think I'd generally just rather stay out of skitter's line of sight? like diving into the crosshairs is a valid strategy with a lot of players but she is very capable of pulling the trigger.

is not really true of your mindset.

Scum!Duck is not going to play the careful game with Town!Skitter, Scum!Duck takes the fight to town!skitter and tries to get her mis-elim'd on D1 because that's fun for Scum!duck to do and scum!duck doesn't care all that much about winning or losing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

But scum-duck doesn't know you have an ace up your sleeve, he's pushing because you are v scary to him no?

He loltownbins me as scum and pockets me and nk's me when the pocket is wearing thin

He doesnt try to lynch me cuz he's not, like, suicidal. If he had to choose how to get me out of thr game as scum he does not force a 1v1 with town-me cuz he will lose (sorry ducky <3) and the game will turn into a shitshow along thr way and he doesnt really like/want to foment that

Like i'm telling u we have oodles of history and that's not plausible for scum-him.

I'm telling you this is exactly what scum!him did this game because I know what his role pm is because I know what my role PM is. If you had flipped me on D2 like I asked you to you would know what I'm saying is true but now you have to make a guess based on faith.

Scum!duck made the High!fun lower chance of winning play because he wanted to go all out on you on D1 and try to get you mis-elim'd on D1. He just had the unfortunate luck this game that you got dealt a confirmable TPR.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Scum!Duck takes the fight to town!skitter and tries to get her mis-elim'd on D1 because that's fun for Scum!duck to do and scum!duck doesn't care all that much about winning or losing.

No

I know you know Duck for much longer than me and probly a hundred times better than me. But players change their approaches to the game, esp against someone that they consider to be a superior opponent.

I have the benefit of knowing his role because I know my role so I'm trying to explain his motivation behind his moves in order to make them make sense to you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

not if it compromises my win condition and turns my fav hobby into Stress for the next x weeks no...

I'm pretty sure you enjoy the stress - people who don't enjoy stress usually don't play this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No sorry i dont buy it

I appreciate that ur trying hard but that narrative isnt plausible and that's now how he approaches a game with town-me

well I know the narrative to be true unfortunately.

If I can't possibly move you on your belief of TW should I try on SS?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I've never played a game with you or TW before so I wouldn't know if what you say about his behavior is wrong or right.

I also don't know what the site meta is because I've only started playing a few months ago.

However from what I experience in my games of mafia, usually people have more fun doing challenging plays like trying to do crazy things that they can have fun and laugh about with their friends down the line. I'm not sure how close you are with TW but it seems you two are on fairly friendly terms so I expect there would be some reason why TW went for your mis-elim on D1 like that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I like the tension and I like the challenge. I don't like insurmountable stress which is likely to end in me losing games of mafia.

pedit: I mean my m.o. would just be to remove you from the game asap because I think there's a fairly finite list of ways I can successfully play around you; either loltownbin or do our retro "I'll deal with you later!!! *waves fist*" manoeuvre. indeed the hot & cold & then sincerely trying to murder you is very far from the way I'm interested in playing scum around you.

well you couldn't really kill her on N1 because you didn't know if there would be a protective role in the game or if she was baiting a NK, it also makes you look bad if she dies.

N2 was when you went to kill her and you had to use MfD in order to not auto-hang on D3 for failing to protect her.

So I would say you took your earliest possible opportunity to eliminate skitter.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but why do you think he would always stick to the same formula as scum?

Isn't that not only predictable but quite boring?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok that's fine I'll go back to re-reading SS's ISO

was just excited to share my little epiphany

hoping to read in the scum PT if I was right about their motivations.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

well the difference Is I know for sure because Datisi had the chance to hammer me to end the game and he didn't and raven has been nonstop defending me and has no reason to and if she had been online earlier she would also have had the chance to hammer me to end the game if she were scum.

So from my POV I have 100% information essentially on who the scum team is.

That's not true at all from your PoV

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like my level of confidence makes sense because if I was wrong - the game would already be over.

Your level of confidence doesn't really make sense at all.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

There is no reason for Raven to put the effort she has into this game defending me if she is scum. The Scum will win on the spot when I flip green today and I would expect Raven's activity level to be similar to you or TW.

If she is actually scum in this game I would be incredibly impressed with her level of discipline to put that much effort into a basically won game instead of just going along with the crowd and flipping pooky to take the easy win.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so what you're saying is that scum!worst would never attack town!skitter on D1 because scum!worst is scared of town!skitter.

However the fact that you are still alive today even after doing that and town!skitter is now using the fact that you went after her on D1 to clear you as town shows that it was not suicidally dumb to attack her - and your gambit on D1 paid off since she now town-reads you for you making that play.

So your reasoning above is just WIFOM about whether scum!TW would make that play or not.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

unlikely but not impossible.

Scum!duck attacking town!skitter on D1 is risky, but nowhere near as risky than scum!pooky requesting to be self-lynched on D2 after his claim fell apart and he's leading the VC.


If we compare what is more unlikely, I would say what I did is way more unlikely to come from a scum player than what you did.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

anyway skitter already said she doesn't want to have this conversation so I don't think there's any reason to pursue it further.


I will not be pursuing you along the lines of whether you did this as town or not based on meta since Skitter has said that's not something she wants to discuss nor should it really be something that she uses to determine your alignment since it's based on years of play history.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I would love to be scum with dkkoba. lol.

this was a funny post

i legit laughed

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the more I think about this game.

the more I realize I would've enjoyed today much more from the dead thread than in here.

trying to get lynched on D2 was probably the best idea I had this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@TW can you explain why you didn't try to get me lynched on D2 ?


Like when I put myself into your shoes:


1) A Pooky Red Flip would've been very good for your standing as town because it means you are basically conf-town as only 1 TPR in the game is very unlikely.

2) If skitter is killed despite your protection on N2 - such as due to mafia strongman or roleblocker, you would still be in a decent position due to (1) instead of being lynch-bait

3) If you believe there are only 2 TPRs in the game, you being a green TPR means that Pooky must be lying and thus flip red - Pooky should've been more likely to be scum from your PoV


What was it about DSJ's play that made you decide to push him instead over Pooky? Like what was so overwhelmingly scummy about him that you felt it would be better to resolve his slot rather than your conflict with me?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Burden of Prociency - you're apparently capable of leading two scum lynches so why haven't you (provably) found scum here yet?

I'm responding to this comment again because I just need to get this off my chest before I go to bed tonight.

I have moved heaven and earth this game to try to deliver this town the correct solve and the scum-lynches to win this game.

I have even offered to sacrifice myself as the lynch on D2 - the day before lylo in order to show you that my solve is coming from a pro-town player because I was worried you would not believe me otherwise.

I have put many multiples of effort into this game than the one in which I linked where I try-harded and got the town to lynch mafia.

Blaming me for not "provably finding scum" is incredibly unfair to me as a player because you haven't really given me a chance.

You want me to provably find scum? Listen to me and flip SS.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

gg guys this was lots of fun <3

Sorry SS!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Dats *hug*

I was right about bugspray in the beginning! hehe

all love <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Skitter =] I hope we can play again in the future

thanks for putting up with me for so long



we never got here but someday

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Raven you played great =]

I was completely fooled by you at the end head over heels and don't feel bad at losing at all.

I know now that the site meta is against "faking emotions" and like all logic or whatever the heck it is but the meta when I played originally decades ago and still do elsewhere is that faking emotions and trying to get people to see things from your emotional POV is pretty much the entire game. Your faked emotional range was amazing <3 imo you have nothing to feel bad about at all - I think your performance this game was tremendous.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky - sorry that you don't feel I deserve the win. I'm not in a phase where putting hours into scumcasing you feels like a good time / good use of my time, and I had indeed realised that Raven had already set herself up in a way which would endgame us even if you did turn the tide against me. I have a lot of respect for the amount of effort you put into just trying your hardest.

I guess I just feel it isn't very fair when you use your history/familiarity with the conf!town to win in lylo.

this entire tangent is literally obfuscating the fact it's ultimately ~very unlikely~ that scum!me approaches the game this way
is anything impossible? no
does that mean i can be assed intentionally breaking my own meta to go full tryhard mode shortly after returning from hiatus when scum!me would not have trusted himself to live past the d2 situation which he INTENTIONALLY PUT HIMSELF INTO anyway?? good god no

in this situation, i am just not the type of duck who puts the poison in his own gauntlet. my case is not wifom. your manipulative portrayal of my case is wifom. i am a
freshly opened bottle of shiraz wearing a duck costume. just because i look like wine, does not mean there is a 50% chance i am posioned.

this is not a hard concept to grasp. you are not in a situation where you can allow this to be acknowledged as the truth.

Like I feel like I was already playing this game with a giant anchor around my neck because Datisi/Skitter were going like Pooky is bad cuz Coalition. So it just felt extra unfair in the final lylo when you/skitter were like, "duck has played with me for 2 years and he would NEVER play this way" - like what am I supposed to do against that?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok well I don't know why people think it's bad to fake emotions and like I thought the whole point of mafia is to fake emotions and try to figure out which ones are fake and which ones are real.

I'll take your word for it that your emotions are real ofc

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok well I wouldn't think it's unethical in any way to fake emotion in mafia because I think the game of mafia is supposed to be about faking emotions and trying to read someone's true identity behind the mask they wear on the surface.

I've always felt that mafia is more of an emotional/psychological game than a logical game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm so glad this game is over.

my quality of life has improved tremendously

I thank you all for providing me with such a fun time <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@koba

yea im pretty sure town wins this game if you don't get force-replaced

I really couldn't handle reconcile SS's low effort with being town =[

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so r u like some kind of celebrity that needs to wear a disguise?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea I would never have thought you were DonC

you sound so different from him ^^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

**hug aldus**

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

should've just listened to skitter instead of yapping all the time ^.^ dumb pooky is dumb

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

which posts of mine do you think crossed the line where I was lying about my personal feelings or circumstances?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like I post usually what I think because I want to be open and transparent about what I'm thinking - some of my thoughts are a little bit crazy and I probly shouldn't post them but I have a tough time filtering myself. I will try to cut down on what you think crosses the line in the future.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i have actually made a lot more progress in recent games in being much more restrained and less spammy about thought-posting =]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's just rare that I get the opportunity to play with people who are this committed to the game so I got carried a way a little.

ok a lot - and probably to the detriment of my side in this game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

right, I'm more just disagreeing with pooky's statement that like, all emotional manipulation is okay

I was talking about "faking emotion" not emotional manipulation. There are certain lines about real-life and personal events that I think are out of bounds obviously for the sake of an internet game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

stuff bears can't type so well.

this is speciesism

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i type with my nose

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my arms are clearly too short to reach the keyboard

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wild

ty aldus

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

where r the datisi notes? :3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thx <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Reading Datisi notes and realizing this is where my dumb ideas are supposed to go ^^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

whats a trello

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

big true.

imagine doing a memorial/appreciation page for a townie as scum

i gotta add this to the playbook.