If this is strange's response to being put at e-1, it just doesn't feel like they have a partner?
Like I think that any one in this lobby as Strange's partner would have helped them come up with an angle to push
Maybe everyone I thought was scum before is actually town :/
I wanna revisit this thing tbh. Most of the pressure on Strange just .... died down?
Yeah, Luke kinda killed the push with this post. I will say that I don't entirely think it was unwarranted. I was feeling like the push wasn't really going anywhere and I take it that's where Luke was too.
I am curious why me moving my vote means that I killed that push, since Strange made it back to at e-1 without me.
Why is a push only alive if I am on it? I noticed the same thing before. Like when I moved from voting HC to voting strange, someone said that I killed that push too. And when I did not want to vote Hockey, cyrus seemed to think that meant the wagon was dead on arrival.
If no wagon can live without without me on it, I think we have some problems. I know I am loud in the thread, but I don't particularly want to be the town leader :/
STD put Strange back at E-1 after the fact, yes, but the pressure had already subsided and the attention of the players shifted. For me the statements made just felt like they came as a general "in conclusion, x y z, time to look elsewhere" vibe, and relieved the pressure that was there.
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:39 pm
by Lukewarm
I am going to put my vote back to Strange. I am still a little off put of the wagon wrt them not seeming to have a partner, but Azeru is looking townier recently, so I don't know where else to plant my vote atm.
VOTE: Strange
Maybe I am just downing out the thread. I want to get a better since of where people are sitting
Zyla, please make a scum case on Hockey if you think that is a better push then Strange. Assume I have no idea why you are suspicious of him, Talk to me like I am 5.
Hockey, please scum case StD if you think that is a better push then Strange
Strange, please make a scum case on who ever you think is the best push rn, I am thinking you are leaning Pav, but maybe you will surprise me?
Azeru, Pav, STD - who is your top choice for an elim today? I think Strange was the most recent vote for each of you, but if you think that we should look somewhere else over strange, drop a case.
I feel like I should step back, and let everyone else air their thoughts out into the thread more
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:36 am
by Pavowski
Okay, a lot has happened since I was able to substantively post so I'm gonna try to catch up with a few posts this morning.
In 658 STD says they're willing to hammer Strange, which is not an intent to hammer. When votes come off Strange, they actually drop a vote on Strange. Not sure that's indicative of anything, but it struck me as an interesting progression.
In 690, and more in-depth in 698, Luke voices doubt about Strange's play, and this seems to be defusing some of the heat behind that wagon. (I think I mixed metaphors there, but w/e.) I actually want to counter that thinking, not because I am convinced Strange is scum, but because there are mitigating factors. Namely Haschel's absence for a few days. Not his fault, but if Haschel were absent from the main thread, it stands to reason they would be absent from the Mafia thread as well.
Let me reiterate, I am not claiming that Strange is defscum or that Hasch is defscum with them. I am saying that Strange
seeming to flail and act alone and uncoached
does not necessarily make them town -- maybe it means their mafia partner hasn't been as present to help them out as they would like.
There is a *lot* of Cyrus/Luke interaction which is basically white noise to me. I don't think there is anything else to be learned from Cyrus, or interactions with him, until our next "day". It is somewhat interesting that Luke seems to agree with this but continues to engage. Making this actually the first time Luke has pinged me in a distinctly scummy way.
I don't like big walls, so I'm gonna break this up and condense more thoughts in another post.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:16 am
by cyrus62
as i stated strange doesnt give me scum vibes so im not voting them.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:20 am
by cyrus62
VOTE: savethedragonsbut i will do this making the wagons tie so random between these two die. unless some one adds another vote.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:29 am
by cyrus62
oh wait if its a tie no one dies okay i like my vote more now.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:45 am
by Pavowski
Re: Haschel, you guys have gone back and forth with him a bit, and I don't want to reinvent the wheel, I'll just point out some things.
In 765, he says this:
As for why I'm bringing attention to Zyla over Strange, I am declining to answer that at the moment.
Maybe this is a personal thing, but I find this sort of response distinctly scummy. It basically tells the asker "I have more information than you and I'm not sharing it with you for reasons."
And the only people who definitely have any more *hard* information than any of us at this point are the mafia. Cyrus pulled this kind of crap A LOT and I feel the exact same way on those plays.
Now, Haschel has a direct, aggressive style, so maybe this is another of his targeted strikes like we saw earlier in the thread. But it hits me some kind of way.
I will say that I agree with ... Hockey, I think? (Yeah, it was Hockey, 782) who said the Luke/Haschel stuff feels like town on town violence. I'm not particularly scumreading either of them right now.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:52 am
by Pavowski
On the one hand, I feel like I did not nearly do justice to all the activity of the last 5 pages or so, but on the other hand, I very much feel like we're beginning to go 'round in circles. If you have questions, ask; I'll answer as best I can.
@Zyla, everything is cool, thanks. It was just a cascade of inconveniences.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:12 am
by Lukewarm
@Pav - Did you answer my question from 802?
Spoiler: In regards to the white noise
In post 803, Pavowski wrote:There is a *lot* of Cyrus/Luke interaction which is basically white noise to me. I don't think there is anything else to be learned from Cyrus, or interactions with him, until our next "day". It is somewhat interesting that Luke seems to agree with this but continues to engage. Making this actually the first time Luke has pinged me in a distinctly scummy way.
If you are curious why I started interacting with cyrus more, you can look back at 556-560
I have been trying to minimize it again, but not completely shut it down. I don't know, I would rather do something that may be a little bad for town (making white noise as you say) then be the reason someone is not having fun in the game.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:54 am
by Save The Dragons
In post 802, Lukewarm wrote:Azeru, Pav, STD - who is your top choice for an elim today? I think Strange was the most recent vote for each of you, but if you think that we should look somewhere else over strange, drop a case.
hockey was my most recent vote, i'm not currently voting. i want to look over strange, luke, pav, and zyla before i vote which could take a little bit of time.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:07 am
by Azeru
Heading to work soon, but I want to throw something into the thread before I go, and give myself some homework for later. So without diving or analyzing anything, here's where my gut is at.
Pav
: Decent town lean
Cyrus
: Anti-town but most likely not mafia
HF
: Nulltown
Luke:
Still null, but an interesting case that I really would like to look into. My next big endeavor will likely be diving Luke's ISOs.
Zyla + STD
: Mostly null, but (again, without actually looking at anything) I feel like their content has been mostly fluffy and generally very lackluster. Taking back to something I said about STD earlier, it's hard for me to say if it's playstyle or if I actually think they're scummy, which is something else I will look into later.
Haschel
: Don't love the tone of his recent posts. He's deliberately hiding information, and has pulled attention entirely away from a player that was recently under pressure with motives that he refuses to disclose. Until he chooses to actually prompt discussion and give town information, this is a scummy lean.
Strange
: Another interesting case. I am not 100% convinced that Strange is scum, but there's a lot of confusing shade around their wagon, so I believe there's something going on here. Until I read more onto other people later, I can't say that Strange is most likely to flip red, but there's a solid chance. I'm not against flipping Strange, because regardless of their color it sheds a lot of light on the players around this wagon. I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.
In post 803, Pavowski wrote:There is a *lot* of Cyrus/Luke interaction which is basically white noise to me. I don't think there is anything else to be learned from Cyrus, or interactions with him, until our next "day". It is somewhat interesting that Luke seems to agree with this but continues to engage. Making this actually the first time Luke has pinged me in a distinctly scummy way.
If you are curious why I started interacting with cyrus more, you can look back at 556-560
I have been trying to minimize it again, but not completely shut it down. I don't know, I would rather do something that may be a little bad for town (making white noise as you say) then be the reason someone is not having fun in the game.
You asked who my top choice is for an elim today. I think it's still Strange, though I'm less confident than I was in my original vote.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:36 am
by Haschel Cedricson
In post 807, Pavowski wrote:Maybe this is a personal thing, but I find this sort of response distinctly scummy. It basically tells the asker "I have more information than you and I'm not sharing it with you for reasons."
And the only people who definitely have any more *hard* information than any of us at this point are the mafia. Cyrus pulled this kind of crap A LOT and I feel the exact same way on those plays.
Now, Haschel has a direct, aggressive style, so maybe this is another of his targeted strikes like we saw earlier in the thread. But it hits me some kind of way.
: Don't love the tone of his recent posts. He's deliberately hiding information, and has pulled attention entirely away from a player that was recently under pressure with motives that he refuses to disclose. Until he chooses to actually prompt discussion and give town information, this is a scummy lean.
Remember earlier how I mentioned how much I hate it when people answer questions intended for other people because it spoonfeeds them answers? By the same token when I want specific people to address something I'm not going to tell them in advance the sort of things I'm looking for.
Let me make something clear; my job is not to convince you all that I am town. Y'all can think I lean scum or whatever. My job as a member of the town (and the job of six of you as well) is to convince everybody that the people I believe are scum should be eliminated today. Everything else is secondary.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:54 am
by cyrus62
so im anti town because i would rather us not lynch then to lynch town ok.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:03 am
by Azeru
In post 813, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
Remember earlier how I mentioned how much I hate it when people answer questions intended for other people because it spoonfeeds them answers? By the same token when I want specific people to address something I'm not going to tell them in advance the sort of things I'm looking for.
Let me make something clear; my job is not to convince you all that I am town. Y'all can think I lean scum or whatever. My job as a member of the town (and the job of six of you as well) is to convince everybody that the people I believe are scum should be eliminated today. Everything else is secondary.
You can however ask questions of people without spoon-feeding them answers. By your wording right now it sounds like you're waiting for a specific person to notice a specific something and comment on it. Who's to say that'll happen at all? If this is the case, what will you do if they don't notice? Why can't you just ask for their input on the subject?
I understand that you're not exactly trying to seem town, that's fine. But if you're going to try and fulfill your primary purpose of convincing us who you think is scum and who should be eliminated, I would say that you're going to have to be at least somewhat amicable in sharing your thoughts. You're not going to convince anyone of anything by saying "no comment" when asked about your reads.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:04 am
by Haschel Cedricson
Oh, I haven't "no comment"ed my reads at all. It should be very clear what my reads are right now.
In post 766, Save The Dragons wrote:17 i'm not sure what to make of his "vanilla town means zero fucks" post, it could come from vt or bombastic scum but i'm not sure it was a good idea to basically say "i'm not a pr don't nk me but also i'm supposed to draw the nk"
i've talked a lot about his interaction with strange
140 i agree with. @Haschel, how do you feel about Hockeyfan now?
759 i'm not focused on you i keep getting asked about you. why do you go for zyla instead of strange?
1) I was asked in RVS if I preferred being Town or Mafia. My reply was I prefer being vanilla town most of all. Somebody caught that but I'm too lazy to find out who.
2) Better, although admittedly that's partially because my two strongest scumreads have gone after him. I've skimmed his ISO but haven't done a deep dive yet like I did with the others I mentioned in my last post.
3) No comment.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:15 am
by Haschel Cedricson
Right, you know my read on Zyla and my read on Strange; the thing I No Commented was about why the focus was toward Zyla.
Why do u want to if you're our TT? like atm no ones doubting your claim. ppl saying you're "anti-town" doesnt mean they want to vote u?
Also @pav quick question, you havent made a read on Zyla since 269, so now that Zyla has started being SR'D by Haschel, has your read on them changed at all?
Cyrus, you've said that you think Luke and HF are scum, but your vote is on STD right now. Can you explain where your thought process is on these players?
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:46 am
by HockeyFan
In post 802, Lukewarm wrote:I am going to put my vote back to Strange. I am still a little off put of the wagon wrt them not seeming to have a partner, but Azeru is looking townier recently, so I don't know where else to plant my vote atm.
VOTE: Strange
Maybe I am just downing out the thread. I want to get a better since of where people are sitting
Zyla, please make a scum case on Hockey if you think that is a better push then Strange. Assume I have no idea why you are suspicious of him, Talk to me like I am 5.
Hockey, please scum case StD if you think that is a better push then Strange
Strange, please make a scum case on who ever you think is the best push rn, I am thinking you are leaning Pav, but maybe you will surprise me?
Azeru, Pav, STD - who is your top choice for an elim today? I think Strange was the most recent vote for each of you, but if you think that we should look somewhere else over strange, drop a case.
I feel like I should step back, and let everyone else air their thoughts out into the thread more
Oh I just saw this post. Alright, so the thing is. I think they are both equally scummy but as for scumcasing STD, most of my reasons are highlighted in 754. Furthermore, his reaction to that post(presumabley in 766, he just highlighted I was pushing him alot and thats why Im scum which imo is a big ?