LOST (Game Over)

[Lukewarm]

Gladiate was obvtown.

Yeah.

[Lukewarm]

If you go with Frog, now that we know he should have a result, I won't be upset.


But I would prefer dunn.

[Lukewarm]

When Rad said that he expected Dunn to send it to me, that rang true given the way that he softed at me.

I had a thought about us possibly being wrong on which was killed by the mafia.

Might be a bad thought, but if he sent it to me, and I didn't get it then that would mean that he was role blocked. Which would mean he was not the mafia kill.

If scum killed Frog, then that has a lot of implications. But also might just be paranoia. idk

[Lukewarm]

Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg

[Lukewarm]

Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg

why?

Doubting their claim. I actually think that they did have a posting restriction, but I don't believe that the punishment was death and it was not made clear to them.

Seems more likely to me, that the actually affect of breaking the posting restriction would be one that they don't want to tell the class.

I also have not gotten good vibes from them since they have lifted their posting restriction.

I also had a thought at the time of the flips, that if the mafia did kill Frog, then that would make sense in a world with scum C/G, given they were one of the 2 total suggestions made for Frog to Rolecop. (Dunn and i suggested dunn, roden suggested C/G).

And that thought came back when C/G just joined the discussion to advocate for you targeting Dunn over Frog.

[Lukewarm]

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

Also this

[Lukewarm]

The fact that I am off the math wagon,despite loudly arguing for it is a tragedy, and bella should be ashamed for not letting me get back on to get the hammer

[Lukewarm]

counted just now and got 12:

Is this real?

VOTE: math

[Lukewarm]

Oh. 12 is how many we needed.

Sad.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm scum with mathblade confirmed

Called him scummy, but managed to be off wagon.

It's a pretty good case.

I'm proud of you pooky

[Lukewarm]

He’s already hammered.

Yeah, I figured it out

[Lukewarm]

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

Also this

Not that it matters, but bella I think I am the reason people started accusing you of not voting when I quoted the VC right here

[Lukewarm]

Mala, you missed day 2!

You got anything gor us before lock?

[Lukewarm]

I for one will blame marci if math flips town. Because she voted him and I didn't.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: If math flips town

[Lukewarm]

... pooky literally told you that we were joking.

This is 0% bullying :/

[Lukewarm]

I was so happy with my little picture, and now the joy is tainted.

Marci, come laugh at it so it can go back to being funny

[Lukewarm]

I seriously doubt marci would have been offended by any of this dialogue...

I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.

[Lukewarm]

I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.

[Lukewarm]

Actually.

It is a perfectly valid function of this game for me to call someone out for their vote. Marci did in fact vite Mathblade.

Even if I was 100% serious, that was something that is absolutely within the bounds of this game.

I do not think it appropriate for you go call that bullying. And if anything, that crosses a line.

And it is just the kicker that it was actually a joke.

Anyways, I hope std locks this thread soon

[Lukewarm]

I seriously doubt marci would have been offended by any of this dialogue...

I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.

I thought you were better than this.

~GE

Sorry to have given you that impression

[Lukewarm]

I seriously doubt marci would have been offended by any of this dialogue...

I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.

I thought you were better than this.

~GE

Actually.

It is a perfectly valid function of this game for me to call someone out for their vote. Marci did in fact vite Mathblade.

Even if I was 100% serious, that was something that is absolutely within the bounds of this game.

I do not think it appropriate for you go call that bullying. And if anything, that crosses a line.

And it is just the kicker that it was actually a joke.

Anyways, I hope std locks this thread soon

Actually.

It is a perfectly valid function of this game for me to call someone out for their vote. Marci did in fact vite Mathblade.

Even if I was 100% serious, that was something that is absolutely within the bounds of this game.

I do not think it appropriate for you go call that bullying. And if anything, that crosses a line.

And it is just the kicker that it was actually a joke.

Anyways, I hope std locks this thread soon

but you weren't saying it to be serious, were you? you were tagging along on pooky's joke, one that I was not comfortable with. and following my declaration of my discomfort, instead of actually doing anything adult, you opt to double down and call me unreasonable for feeling put down.

you sicken me.

~GE

I have asked a few times to dusengage from this conversation.

As such, I am reporting this post.

[Lukewarm]

This is during a game of mafia.

If he wants to call me scum, more power to him.

But that is not what he is doing.

[Lukewarm]

I for one will blame marci if math flips town. Because she voted him and I didn't.

Just to be extra clear.

Marci was not even the butt of my joke.

I was the butt of my own joke.

The joke being that I was one of the most vocal pushers on Math, so it would be laughable for me to blame anyone else (just because i happened to be off right when it finally happened).

But i still said I would blame her.

Which is a laughable thing for me to do.

Haha

[Lukewarm]

I mean that just means he would show up as a neighbor, not vanilla ? Right

Also, cytosine, the reason people are asking you about your vote is because math has already been hammered, and we are in twilight.

Kind of an odd time to vote

[Lukewarm]

I mean that just means he would show up as a neighbor, not vanilla ? Right

Also, cytosine, the reason people are asking you about your vote is because math has already been hammered, and we are in twilight.

Kind of an odd time to vote

I refuse to work for Amazon
gotta work on your delivery dude

[Lukewarm]

I know Guanine had read the entire game up to Day 1,

I thought I caught a thing. But I was wrong

Spoiler:

I rememerberd this post, but I thought that Guanine wrote it.

I've missed a lot of context (I've only read maybe 5% of the posts in the game) and 2) once you're unengaged, it's hard to get back to that point.
{snip}
~Cytosine

i was wrong

[Lukewarm]

I started rereading day 2 in light of the math flip during the night, but only got to 8245 before I ran out if time to dedicate to that endeavor

Got good vibes from: Bell, Taly, C/G, and Malcolm (and DP but kinda unrelated to Math lol)

Mixed feelings on T Bone and BBT

And felt like Drap looked surprisingly bad in that Start of day 2 -> 8245 window.

Did not actually get to that point during my reread, but miselim trying to set up the malcolm counter wagon feels even worse then it did preflip

[Lukewarm]

Did Bell ever claim a PR? Why is he dead?

I feel like the math flip hard cleared him, but was also surprised to see his flip

[Lukewarm]

Can we kill enchanted

I am not opposed to this

[Lukewarm]

Happy Bell is dead?

[Lukewarm]

Lol

[Lukewarm]

be very scared

The gasp I guspt.

I read 9674, and thought "ooohhh, I'm so scared."

Then clicked the new page.

lmao

[Lukewarm]

Luke I will give you one chance at redeeming yourself after whiffing on mathblade who might be the easiest scum to catch in this game

Uh, I do not accept that I whiffed on him lol

Try again.

[Lukewarm]

you had him dead last on your list of four

we could've gotten him on d1

Pooky, you are welcome to look through my iso for my interactiosn with Math.

But, I don't think that I whiffed on him this game, even if I had a window where I thought he was town.

[Lukewarm]

I started rereading day 2 in light of the math flip during the night, but only got to 8245 before I ran out if time to dedicate to that endeavor

Got good vibes from: Bell, Taly, C/G, and Malcolm (and DP but kinda unrelated to Math lol)

Mixed feelings on T Bone and BBT

And felt like Drap looked surprisingly bad in that Start of day 2 -> 8245 window.

Did not actually get to that point during my reread, but miselim trying to set up the malcolm counter wagon feels even worse then it did preflip

Here is as far as I got of Day 2

Spoiler:

7880 - Math starts the day pushing BBT, followed up with 7895

7905 - Gamma on enchant

7909 - Drap opens up on Bella 7910, has a wolf poe that includes math

7913 - Titus shows up with some VCA. Because she did not explain it at all, I did not realize it, but her bbt+enchant theory came from the exact same vote counts that I used to come to it. Feel better about Titus.


7919 - I vote Math.

7922 - Bell votes math

7943 - Taly votes math. I actually really like this one from taly, because she says that part of the reason that she is voting there is because I voted there. Scum on Math don't want credit for their vote to go to someone else imo.


Several posts in a row from T-bone about C/G's restriction. C/G was another math counter wagon, if C/G is town then this could be a scum Tbone thing. But I also wonder if scum!Tbone even takes the time to count C/G's posts over and over. Not really sure how to feel about it.

8026 CSF votes Johnny, Pooky immediately votes johnny 8027. tbh, Pooky looks worse from this. Because pooky is calling Math scum, and ignoring that wagon happening completely. Then jumping on the counter. (Although 8035 is kinda valid.)

8038 - Rad latches onto the C/G push by Tbone, and votes

8059 - despite being off wagon, CSF is throwing some fuel on the math blade fire by calling him out on his dismissiveness.

8074 - I feel weird about Drap quoting Taly voting Mathblade, having mathblade as a scum read, but not commenting on the math blade wagon

8086 - Math is trying to link my alignment to BBT. I was thinking town on BBT for Math pushing him out the gate. But this gives me pause.


I know that I was already town reading bell, but god. This mans is never partnered with Mathblade.


8100 - once again feels bad from drap. Calling it distancing when CSF says something negative about Math. Linking other people to Math's alignment while not voting math.

8103 - Drap more explicitly says that bella or BBT should be flipped before math.

And then in 8108 - hypothesizes a math, bone, CSF team. But leaves his vote off the math wagon...

Bell and I tagteam math a bit, and CSF votes math in 8145

8146 - Enchant pops in with a Taly vote (later said to be a strategic trap lol)

8158 - naked math vote from BBT

8162 - is an interesteding post from C/G. Because, he is giving me the credit for math. And once again, I feel like the scum team would want at least one of their own to look good when Math flips, instead of me.


8171 - Bella forgets that I exist (side note, Bella is unlikely to be scum with Malcolm, but I also think that Malcolm is town.)

8172 - Bella makes a non-statement about Math

8173 - Malcolm cases Rad. Not a great look per say, But I also, kind of doubt scum!Malcolm sees the Math wagon, and thinks that Rad (who is incredibly town read) is the person to push to save Math.

8210 - RCEnigma. Votes math with just "sheep sheep shepp" lol

8216 - Marci votes Math, Double down with 8217. Hmmmm. This actually kinda looks like scum wanting to look good on the math flip... But I stand by town reading her slot. it still just makes me go hmmmmm.

8233 - RCEnigma scum cased Math.

8237 - Ewwwwww. I have consistently felt worse about Drap as I have reread this day.

8245 - this is a surprisingly bad reason for Marci to think that Math is scum lmao

[Lukewarm]

Pooky is suggesting that I am scum with Math, because for half of day 1 I leaned town on math.

[Lukewarm]

I think that this is my strongest thought. But there are a number of people I'd consider atm.

VOTE: Mislim Bait

[Lukewarm]

Pooky is suggesting that I am scum with Math, because for half of day 1 I leaned town on math.

oh

do u trust pooky rn luke?

I have been town reading him. It was a some what strong read that has weakened over time.

From the repeated paranoia at me, to how his votes played out Day 2 (both on Johnny and moving to Malcolm), to his started shade on me today, I

could

see him as scum I guess.

But I had a lot of reasons to put him in the town pile as well when I did so. So GTH, still town.

[Lukewarm]

I feel like he melted down at me when I pushed him, and you seem to be properly suspecting me lol

[Lukewarm]

where did he melt down at you

eh. looking back, it was less then I remembered. I remembered him freaking out at my push, claiming to try to get me to stop, and then trying to guilt me for being so heartless as to push him soon after his rep in and not stopping when he claimed.

Looking back at it, it actually looks more like manipulation then actually freaking out. So :shrug:

Spoiler: Me pushing math when he repped in

VOTE: mathblade

Anyways, we are not killing Johnny today.

Help me kill Mathblade.

I feel like Math's push onto Bell comes from him feeling the need to have somewhere to try to turn the discussion away from himself because I called him scum.

Instead of him actually thinking Bell is scum right now.

Frogster, is there a reason that you are purposefully avoiding a Corwin/Math vote?

I seem to remember you having them in your scum reads for a while, but since I have suggested them as a player to be wagoned to day you have voted Bella->Ceph->Johnny->Me (lol)->Dancing Puppets

Reasons I think that Corwin was scum:

Johnny, you had an earlier town read on Luke, do you still feel that way and why?

Yeah, they haven't done anything to disturb that halo on their head. You think I missed something?

Not necessarily. My notes are "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s [\n] JF TR Luke?" so I've just been meaning to ask about it. Something wasn't rubbing right around then, but I suspect a lot of you have a better feel for him as a player than I do.

The copy paste off of the notes.

The notes look non-useful. But also, they literally never responded to the comments about their notes. They said nothing, but also never mention anything off of their notes again.

I actually think that if they had defended their notes usage I would have felt better about this. But the non-response just felt like them hoping it would go away.

---

Only person listed in his lowest tier for scum in 1442 was Mala. But then also seemed annoyed that he was being scum read for lurking.

Both of those are...

fine

on their own, but taken together rub me the wrong way. Like, how can you not be understanding of those scum reads, if you think that the scummiest person in the game is someone that the only words you put towards why you scum read them was

mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting.

---

A thought that started unrelated to Corwin was thinking about the way that the scum team is apparently treating me. When pooky posted the reads list, and I apparently had 19 town reads and 0 scum reads, I realized that that meant that at some point the entire scum team decided that it was not worth it to fight the growing consensus that I am town.

Obviously, the scum team would not have thought that out the gate. Early on there were a couple of people saying that they are hesitant to town read me in general (pooky, Bella) and some people outright scum reading me (Galron, Rad, Frog).

So the scum team should have thought that there would be possible support against me at some point (unless the scum team is exactly Pooky, Bella, Galron, Rad, Frog lmao), but then at some point this game decided to abandon hope of keeping me from becoming truly consensus.

And when I read through Corwin's iso last night, I felt like I saw that when I looked at his progression on me.

I started to gather up town reads, and he started trying to poke into them with 1107/1114. Floating me as one of his only two voiced scum reads, floating me as a partner to a fairly widely scum read player, and trying to talk Johnny out of town reading me.

But then he was met with strong backlash about his comment about his notes.

And that discussion was completely and totally dropped.

The next time I show up in his iso, almost all of the other reads lists have come out showing how consensus town read I am, and then I am not a scum read in his Reads list of 1442. No comment on anything I did making him think that I was town, no interaction with me, nothing.

And when it was brought up that I was not on there, here was his response.

Aren't you the one who had me and frogster as S+S in your notes? What changed?

That was me. I'm feeling Frog even less; you've just kinda dropped off my radar right now.

He scum reads frog even harder then before, but he just stopped thinking about me.

Which did not jive for me with the fact that his earlier working theory was that we specifically looked partnered. Because if he thinks two players look partnered, and then thinks that one of them is getting even more scummy, I just don't feel like you forget about that other player. If anything, he should have been looking at me even more??

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

The time has arrived for me to take my place as town leader, and lead this town to a scum elimination.

If everyone can kindly vote Mathblade in their next post. Much appreciated.

[spoi/ler=]I'm only approximately 24 hours late lol[/spoi/ler]

I need sleep.

I would love to wake up to a pretty mathblade wagon.

Good night!

Spoiler: Math claiming to try to stop me, and telling me how unfun I am making the game for him

Math claiming specifically to get me to back off

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

I’d appreciate it if you backed off. It’s way too late at night for me to do a proper defense but I think y’all are capable of reading between the lines.

Math getting upset that I do not appear to be backing off, and trying to guilt me off

Can you like back off please if you’re town?

It’s hard enough trying to read everything and relay the hood properly and catch up.

If you think I am scum push me tomorrow or the next day

It’s really destructive and unfun to push me right now.

I was really hoping you’d see what I was saying if you’re town and why I scumread you.

I should not have had to claim here.

Math worried that if I don't back off he is just gonna die.

Because you’re the main focus

I can’t hyperpost like I used to and have work in the AM.

There is a high likelihood you just spam the thread then I die and Jin can’t talk.

So I brought it up with DNA and asked.

[Lukewarm]

I guess we just wait for Bella now.

[Lukewarm]

where did he melt down at you

eh. looking back, it was less then I remembered. I remembered him freaking out at my push, claiming to try to get me to stop, and then trying to guilt me for being so heartless as to push him soon after his rep in and not stopping when he claimed.

Looking back at it, it actually looks more like manipulation then actually freaking out. So :shrug:

Spoiler: Me pushing math when he repped in

VOTE: mathblade

Anyways, we are not killing Johnny today.

Help me kill Mathblade.

I feel like Math's push onto Bell comes from him feeling the need to have somewhere to try to turn the discussion away from himself because I called him scum.

Instead of him actually thinking Bell is scum right now.

Frogster, is there a reason that you are purposefully avoiding a Corwin/Math vote?

I seem to remember you having them in your scum reads for a while, but since I have suggested them as a player to be wagoned to day you have voted Bella->Ceph->Johnny->Me (lol)->Dancing Puppets

Reasons I think that Corwin was scum:

Johnny, you had an earlier town read on Luke, do you still feel that way and why?

Yeah, they haven't done anything to disturb that halo on their head. You think I missed something?

Not necessarily. My notes are "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s [\n] JF TR Luke?" so I've just been meaning to ask about it. Something wasn't rubbing right around then, but I suspect a lot of you have a better feel for him as a player than I do.

The copy paste off of the notes.

The notes look non-useful. But also, they literally never responded to the comments about their notes. They said nothing, but also never mention anything off of their notes again.

I actually think that if they had defended their notes usage I would have felt better about this. But the non-response just felt like them hoping it would go away.

---

Only person listed in his lowest tier for scum in 1442 was Mala. But then also seemed annoyed that he was being scum read for lurking.

Both of those are...

fine

on their own, but taken together rub me the wrong way. Like, how can you not be understanding of those scum reads, if you think that the scummiest person in the game is someone that the only words you put towards why you scum read them was

mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting.

---

A thought that started unrelated to Corwin was thinking about the way that the scum team is apparently treating me. When pooky posted the reads list, and I apparently had 19 town reads and 0 scum reads, I realized that that meant that at some point the entire scum team decided that it was not worth it to fight the growing consensus that I am town.

Obviously, the scum team would not have thought that out the gate. Early on there were a couple of people saying that they are hesitant to town read me in general (pooky, Bella) and some people outright scum reading me (Galron, Rad, Frog).

So the scum team should have thought that there would be possible support against me at some point (unless the scum team is exactly Pooky, Bella, Galron, Rad, Frog lmao), but then at some point this game decided to abandon hope of keeping me from becoming truly consensus.

And when I read through Corwin's iso last night, I felt like I saw that when I looked at his progression on me.

I started to gather up town reads, and he started trying to poke into them with 1107/1114. Floating me as one of his only two voiced scum reads, floating me as a partner to a fairly widely scum read player, and trying to talk Johnny out of town reading me.

But then he was met with strong backlash about his comment about his notes.

And that discussion was completely and totally dropped.

The next time I show up in his iso, almost all of the other reads lists have come out showing how consensus town read I am, and then I am not a scum read in his Reads list of 1442. No comment on anything I did making him think that I was town, no interaction with me, nothing.

And when it was brought up that I was not on there, here was his response.

Aren't you the one who had me and frogster as S+S in your notes? What changed?

That was me. I'm feeling Frog even less; you've just kinda dropped off my radar right now.

He scum reads frog even harder then before, but he just stopped thinking about me.

Which did not jive for me with the fact that his earlier working theory was that we specifically looked partnered. Because if he thinks two players look partnered, and then thinks that one of them is getting even more scummy, I just don't feel like you forget about that other player. If anything, he should have been looking at me even more??

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

The time has arrived for me to take my place as town leader, and lead this town to a scum elimination.

If everyone can kindly vote Mathblade in their next post. Much appreciated.

[spoi/ler=]I'm only approximately 24 hours late lol[/spoi/ler]

I need sleep.

I would love to wake up to a pretty mathblade wagon.

Good night!

Spoiler: Math claiming to try to stop me, and telling me how unfun I am making the game for him

Math claiming specifically to get me to back off

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

I’d appreciate it if you backed off. It’s way too late at night for me to do a proper defense but I think y’all are capable of reading between the lines.

Math getting upset that I do not appear to be backing off, and trying to guilt me off

Can you like back off please if you’re town?

It’s hard enough trying to read everything and relay the hood properly and catch up.

If you think I am scum push me tomorrow or the next day

It’s really destructive and unfun to push me right now.

I was really hoping you’d see what I was saying if you’re town and why I scumread you.

I should not have had to claim here.

Math worried that if I don't back off he is just gonna die.

Because you’re the main focus

I can’t hyperpost like I used to and have work in the AM.

There is a high likelihood you just spam the thread then I die and Jin can’t talk.

So I brought it up with DNA and asked.

ok buddy look at mathblade posting at you

and compare it to what he posted at me:

Spoiler: mathblade -> pooky

Math, I doubt you continuing to engage with pooky on your own alignment will be good for anyone, and just keep flooding the thread.

That’s why I said I am catching up

I have never been / recall a single d1 Pooky elim in my decade plus on site

And in those games when I have pushed him town or scum it’s easy because someone always vetoes

Now I am going to do that

This site bleeds players because it’s popularity versus discussion

Why aren’t you voting Pooky if Pooky is scum MB?
Are you voting them and I just missed it?

Because I think that Pooky is a scum lean.

I think Frogger elim and flip explains D1.

I also think no one elims Pooky ever even if he was to be mod confirmed scum D1

I’m not liming my strong tr. And again, this is whack.

Run statistics

Find how many games Pooky is elimmed D1 as any alignment.

Bet it’s damn near close to 0.

Hell people even say (paraphrased) “I don’t wanna elim Pooky he’s too good when he’s town”

I never ever try to convince anyone Pooky is scum

It’s better to let time sort him by who he pushes than argue against site wise popularity bias

Some players just are not pushable D1 and it’s toxic AF

you could hunt for scum and make a case for someone being scum?

complaining about me being never elimmed is um.. not useful for anything?

I did that yesterday

And today

And tried to form a townblock

But you just spam “but math is scum”

So I have to spend 10000 posts arguing I am town against “Corwin is aggro”
Then moving the damn goal posts

Versus building a town block which is remarkably protown

Or ignore him?

Like, yes. Pooky was calling you scum.

But there was also multiple slots defending you. Off the top of my head, Me, Both heads of Dancing Puppets, OTH all made posts about stopping your wagon.

The thread did not need 10000 posts from you arguing with Pooky.

It does

Pooky says someone is scum

That’s it

They’re the elim

I want to talk my reads and catch up

But instead there’s this flash wagon on absolute bullshit.

Where no one talks a single read I have

You wree trying to convince me that one of my strongest trs is scum based off of “popularity” and not because he’s actually done anything scummy.

I am unpopular

Pooky is popular

Therefore I die

Hence why I never want to be voted as any alignment

Once I get voted I am almost always elimmed

also anything you say about popularity literally has nothing to do with my alignment so it's weird that this is the tack you're going with :/

My point is that if I was scum I do attack you because you’re never elimmed

As scum it’s hella easy to fake reads

And I keep posting because I keep getting asked questions

Like strongly pushing anyone is so easy to do for cred.

I am very very good at generating towncred as scum because it’s so easy

The only problem comes in when you piss people off

I pissed people off for asking you talk to each other

I called I would be wagoned

I was right

I can’t defend myself because defense never works

So gg no re

If I push it’s always bad faith

There is literally nothing I can do that is protown

I dunno, like...pooky was pretty heavily town read, including by me early game, and now I too am just not feeling it - but that could be scummy, according to you?

P-edit I feel like you kinda just answered this.

Pooky is still a really hard tr for me. Like him moving me from yellow to green but not actually saying anything about it. Why does scum!Pooky squander an opportune chance at hard pocketing me?

I don’t follow. Wouldn’t yellow to green without interaction be a pocket?

How do you figure that?

“Hey look you were null now you’re town can we be friends?” (Fake puppy dog eyes)

You’re not going to get me to change my read on Pooky and this is lame.

Not my goal. I know no one ever elims Pooky D1

So either A) Pooky reboots or B) Pooky is scum

By that point I know and the game will know

Fighting people on a popularity contest is dumb

Certain people no matter how much I scumread them will never be elimmed D1

I dunno, like...pooky was pretty heavily town read, including by me early game, and now I too am just not feeling it - but that could be scummy, according to you?

P-edit I feel like you kinda just answered this.

Pooky is still a really hard tr for me. Like him moving me from yellow to green but not actually saying anything about it. Why does scum!Pooky squander an opportune chance at hard pocketing me?

I don’t follow. Wouldn’t yellow to green without interaction be a pocket?

How do you figure that?

“Hey look you were null now you’re town can we be friends?” (Fake puppy dog eyes)

You’re not going to get me to change my read on Pooky and this is lame.

Not my goal. I know no one ever elims Pooky D1

So either A) Pooky reboots or B) Pooky is scum

By that point I know and the game will know

Fighting people on a popularity contest is dumb

Certain people no matter how much I scumread them will never be elimmed D1

eh. looking back, it was less then I remembered.

[Lukewarm]

I think that this is my strongest thought. But there are a number of people I'd consider atm.

VOTE: Mislim Bait

hmmm.

Looked back at Klick, and I am conflicted on this again. From memory, it felt like it was "hard calling Math scum when math looked like he was gonna die, Day 1 so he could look good on the flip" into "oh shit, math could actually live. Abort the Bus"

Spoiler:

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence.

This is probably because Corwin/MathBlade is just a scum slot and should die today

VOTE: MathBlade

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

Hi Klick! Can you point to some post(s) that make you feel this way? I have a harder time understanding other people's reads when they're in the abstract

So I suspect I'll get ire from a number of people for this, but I'll preface this post by saying that another read-through of Corwin's ISO in a different state of mind has me townreading him.

What I originally saw was more about what I couldn't see in Corwin's posts rather than what I could see, and as such it'd be difficult to demonstrate what I was seeing with quotes. I think Corwin has a type of posting style that I'm naturally likely to read as scummy, because his posts feel crafted to me. But I can see looking at his ISO now how the posts he decides to post come from town who feels like he's saying whatever is on his mind at the time.

This is a shit answer to the actual question you've asked here! But it's what I'm thinking.

But when I looked back at when 3268 was written, the math wagon had already kinda fallen to the back ground I think?

Like, it happened in a couple phases. Me pushing for Math to die in 2400s -> 2914

{Klick making 3268 and 3302}

Then Pooky picked the cause back up in 3304


It is actually kind of a weird time for him to do that tbh.

---

Glad we just get to deal with the invest result today instead of actually having to solve it lmao

[Lukewarm]

It felt like mislim Bait was pushing hard to get the malcolm counter wagon to be a thing.

But, looking back at klick I feel it less.

So, sure.

[Lukewarm]

Im concerned about claiming because my role is good for town, but I will if it's consensus because I think there should be more than one of me.
@luke, what do you want me to do?

I have not seen your role, so don't have the information you have that is making you want to hide it

But, someone just claimed a guilty on you, so I feel like the most likely out come of you not claiming is for you to get run up to e-2, and then claim anyways.

[Lukewarm]

Okay, instead of just reading through, I looked through Bella and Drap's iso to get the claims.

I think we still kill Bella here.

VOTE: Bella

[Lukewarm]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

I hate that I town read Gamma for this, but I do town read gamma for his outburst end of day 2.

I kinda doubt that Scum!Gamma partnered with Scum!Math, actually gets that angry at people saying that they will blame Marci for a town math flip.

[Lukewarm]

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

BBT, why is there no paranoia of a Bella fake claim here?

[Lukewarm]

N1: CSF - Action Failed for some reason

CSF are you aware of why this would have failed on you Night 1?

[Lukewarm]

Based on play alone, I don't think Bella is scum. As such, I'm willing to believe the claim and also think scum have a strongman.

NVM, was already answered

[Lukewarm]

Im concerned about claiming because my role is good for town, but I will if it's consensus because I think there should be more than one of me.
@luke, what do you want me to do?

If it would help to yeet me, fine, like I said I assume there has to be a jack from flavour.

I don't like that Bella went from thinking that her role was so important that she did not want to claim with a claimed guilty on here.

To feeling that its just fine for her to be killed because there has to be a jack from flavor.

Incongruent thoughts.

[Lukewarm]

Nancy talk to me about OTH because they have been sliding in my reads since day 1.

I hate that I town read Gamma for this, but I do town read gamma for his outburst end of day 2.

I kinda doubt that Scum!Gamma partnered with Scum!Math, actually gets that angry at people saying that they will blame Marci for a town math flip.

this is NAI for gamma

the anger he is expressing is because he perceives that we are bullying marci and he is defending her

it has nothing to do with alignment

I disagree, but was also town reading OTH before that.

So don't even care to continue having a conversation about that interaction. My thought has been expressed.

[Lukewarm]

like lets say someone in the game claims cop or vig or tracker or watcher or whatever

and you dont know whether the protective role is alive or dead cuz no flips

dont you need your strongman shot to make sure that tpr dies for sure sure? why waste your strongman shot on night 2 on someone who's not claimed anything

I 100% agree with these thoughts.

[Lukewarm]

Tracked not watched. Someone else could have also visited Bell. Why does scum!Bella claim doc here? Like that’s scum suicide.

If she is scum, then her flavor is still almost certainly Juliet, and as such she had already planned on claiming Doc to flavor match.

Then she was tracked to Bell, and forced to claim.

And with the Flavor of Juliet, her options were stick to the doc claim, OR try to, on the spot, come up with some other claim that both made sense for Juliet that would also go to Bell.

[Lukewarm]

Strongman also may not be gated so idk.

This is an argument about Bella true claiming.

Ungated strongman in a game with two docs feel horrible for those docs.

I hate this theory.

[Lukewarm]

Strongman also may not be gated so idk.

whats the point of the town having doctor if the scum have an ungated strongman lol

Pooky and I appear to share the same brain cell on this discussion lol

[Lukewarm]

She claimed doc, don’t you think scum!Bella would come up with a much better fakeclaim?

Please remember that she would need to flavor match.

Please name a better fake claim to make in that moment, with the flavor of Juliet.

[Lukewarm]

Credit to Miselim Bait for this catch, but Bella was not even town reading Bell Day 2

My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell,

And to be clear, this is a mellowing from being "Bella's strongest scum read"

Scum

Galron
Dunn
Pp
Ceph
Bell

But over night, Bell was in her top two most town players

it was Luke or bell for me and I assumed if another doc then prolly on other obv! town

------

Town!Bella does not protect Bell.
Scum does not use a strongman on Bell.

I don't buy her "I don't think I should claim because my role is so good" to "I guess we can kill me off, because there is a back up to my role out there" as genuine.

I was already leaning scum on Bella before the day started.

We are killing Bella today.

[Lukewarm]

I’m not lying, I hard claim Investigative role.

oooh - spicy

Oh hey.

You heard anything from frog?

[Lukewarm]

@BB, did you pick someone last night to talk to?

no - i withheld at the advice of ceph + paranoia of a roleblock since I claimed only one shot left

Oh. nvm then

[Lukewarm]

....the scum read is 4000+ posts out of date, Luke. Plus, Bell's end of day posting was just really solve focused, especially their stuff around Taly. Thats also not how I presented my role at all.


I'm macho. Hence me having no issues believing bell could be too.

I was not comparing the 4000 something post to the 9000 something post. I was comparing the 8000 something post (the last time you mentioned bell) to the 9000 something post.
The 4000 something post was just for clarification on what you meant in the 8000 something.

[Lukewarm]

Did Bell ever flavor claim?

If not, kinda want to get it from Taly.

[Lukewarm]

@Bella.

Is Macho Doc your full claim?

I don't like the "trickle out more and more as needed" approach we have going now.

[Lukewarm]

have you ever seen an ungated strongman on this site y/n?

why would scum even shoot bella at night if they have an ungated strongman

Have you ever seen an ungated strongman?

lol

[Lukewarm]

Drap, i kbow its definitly too late now, but in the future maybe consider waiting like 12 hours before revealing.

Would have been nice to see if/how bella responded to the start of day and to Bell's flip without the knowledge of your track.

Now her first post is in direct response to your accusation.

[Lukewarm]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

I think I'm a pretty bad choice for n1, tbh. Why me Bella? Even if I was your top town read, there are others who should have been more likely to get NK'd just based on universal town reads (Luke?). Scum should be much more afraid of a town!Luke after d1 than me.

Well Luke still wasn’t on board with math!scum eod1 I think. Possible that scum still thought they could angle there.

Pretend I didn’t answer for Bella. Bella pretend you didn’t see any of those hints at what to say.

That would not even be a good answer for Bella, because it would require her to have already known math was scum when choosing to protect Rad instead of me lol

[Lukewarm]

I don't wanna blahblahblah for 10 days either. But we just started this day. Also literally the game is just blahblahblah so we should probably do some of that first. Specifically I'd love if Taly popped in soon to blahblahblah about Bell's flavor and Bella came to blahblahblah to my question.

this post reminds me so much of matt colville

Omg, I love Matt Colville. I watched so many of him videos when my friends and I started playing dungeons and Dragons, and I ended up having to DM

[Lukewarm]

Titus, if you mean who seggested he gladiate taly over math, pooky has quoted it a couple of times

luke
DP=taly, johnny=math

Bone
taly dp johnny math

csf
johnny taly math dp

pd
math johnny puppets taly

pooky
math johnny taly dp


TALY 2.5+3+2+0+1 = 8.5
JOHNNY .5+1+3+2+2 = 8.5

i hate u all

Me, tbone, and CSF all had taly >math

Drap and pooky both had math > taly

[Lukewarm]

wtfs going on

Drap tracked Bella to Bell and is claiming macho doc with apparently also being informed that there’s another macho player in the setup.

No, I didn't say informed anything.

Not in Portland was doctor, other woman macho. I think not in Portland is Juliet's first focus ep.

So I feel like this would be too random of a thing for Bella to make up for no reason.

But my role pm did not have episode names to describe me. It just said my role.

I kinda believe, regardless of her alignment, her pm probably has that, because there seems to be no reason to just make it up full cloth

But it an odd thing to not be consistent across role pms

[Lukewarm]

Other people should probably not confirm or deny if they have that btw.

[Lukewarm]

Wait.

I'm dumb.

I do have that.

Mine just blended in well enough that I didn't realize that is what was happening, even when I was looking for it.

Ignore me

[Lukewarm]

I have episodes in my role PM

I...

Literally said don't do this

[Lukewarm]

well, it's done now

True.

The reason I felt comfortable commenting was because I have already claimed Not A Vanilla Townie.

But didn't want other people to do that too.

But too late now

[Lukewarm]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

I don't think it is any benefit.

Mine does have it, i was wrong. Bbt said his has it.

I assume at this point every who has a role does, and I am just a big dumb dumb

[Lukewarm]

I just looked again at my role pm. Let me know whether or not you want me to confirm or deny the episode thing.

Go ahead. I don't see it as relevant. Whatever you want.

~Titus

Well some people think we shouldn’t so I just want to make sure it’s okay first.

If you do. You claim Not A Vanilla Townie.

You have already claimed Neighbor, so it does not really matter at all for you.

Definitely don't say how many times an episode title appears, because that would apparently say if you have more then just the neighbor role, or if you have some kind of modifier

[Lukewarm]

apparently every role pm has an episode title in it for whatever reason

We have been informed that there is a minimum of 1 vanilla townie in this set up. And they do not have an episode title in their pm.

Which is why people who have not said if they are a VT or not should probably not weigh in on this convo

[Lukewarm]

Because everyone already knows you are not a VT

[Lukewarm]

Stand by.

~GE

Omg

[Lukewarm]

@Mala



Give 3 tiered reads list now

@rad, this is a picture of juliet.

She is kinda badass. She beats the shit out of and kills several people.

Badass could equal macho I guess

[Lukewarm]

I feel like my role matches my flavor.

And all of the hoods are flavor based.

And juliet is in flavor a doctor. And sayid makes perfect sense as a role cop. (His stick is extractong info from people)

I assumed you were hurley based on the role tbh

[Lukewarm]

There are actually multiple people who talk to dead people in this show. I find it hard to believe your flavor would not be one of them

[Lukewarm]

mmm…guess I don’t know this show very well.

I take this to mean my guess was right lmao

[Lukewarm]

Yeah.

In the later seasons dead people keep talking to hurley.

[Lukewarm]

Everybody Hates Hugo

This would mean that episodes are unrelated to the roles actually.

Because that is before it is revealed he can talk to dead people.

Episode titles in role pms appear to just be chosen based on episodes which that character is the pov character for the flashbacks.

But the character flavor matches role ability pretty 1 to 1

[Lukewarm]

Seems weird to me to determine roles based on flavor but oh well…here we are.

The modnliterally advertised that this would be the case.

And that he was making the roles based on the flavor before he determined the alignment of the flavor.

So I imagine juliet was set as a doctor. And then if bella is scum, she became a scum doctor.

It actually means that all of the scuns roles should be safe to true claim probably

[Lukewarm]

Yes I have seen scum doc.

Actually kinda common in games with a gunsmith, because of their unique interaction (scum doc does not have a gun despite being scum)

[Lukewarm]

I took the "mostly" to mean that he was leaving himself leeway to make changes after the rand if he felt like it was clearly town or scum sided.

[Lukewarm]

Scum would have to be multitasking. But I think it really hinges on if Bella flavor makes sense as macho or not.

I do think that juliet could be Macho. (I also think that Jake could be a macho doc as well to be clear) But i also don't see how any of it hinges on that.

If she is town, then the mod did not want two docs who could park on one another and become immortal.

If she is scum, the mod either had the above thought before the rand, and it is a hold over (and did not want to move it, because then town might wonder if the mod would really leave that as a possibility after mass claim, if neither doc was macho) . Or the mod did not want the town!doc to be able to save the scum!doc from the town!vig.

Both options seem perfectly plausible for the mod to make the role macho, and it seems completely irrelevant to me

[Lukewarm]

@Rad.

Drap's tracker result says: Bella targeted exactly Bell, and only Bell, with anything that Bella used that targeted someone overnight.

I don't know how to make that any clearer, so I hope that helps.

[Lukewarm]

@Rad.

Drap's tracker result says: Bella targeted exactly Bell, and only Bell, with anything that Bella used that targeted someone overnight.

I don't know how to make that any clearer, so I hope that helps.

I mean - if there was a redirect, Drap wouldn’t be notified.

I feel like that still falls under what I said. That would mean that the redirector changed her target to Bell. And she therefore targeted only Bell.

But this is also semantics on whether "Bella targeted" means "Bella submit a target on" or "in the end, bella's ability targeted"

[Lukewarm]

Nah everyone jumped on Bella without any analysis, is why I'm comparing it to RVS.

Actually Occam's Razor given the likelihood of Bella being an actual doc based on flavor is that town!Bella sat on Bell and Bell is macho so now he's dead.

You gotta deny Bella's a doc at all for there to be a better Occam's Razor cause the scum!Bella doc scenarios are complicated.

HARD disagree.

[Lukewarm]

Luke sanity check me please.

Did scum!Bella the doc or not doc go kill Bell last night?

Here are the requirements for scum!Bella, given the track:

-Scum!Bella carried out the night kill on Bell, and did not use any abilities on any player other then Bell last night.

This is not a wild scenario that defies logic, or needs any real extra hoops to explain.

Spoiler:

Off the top of my head, perfectly reasonable explanations:
Scum cannot multitask.
Bella is an x-shot scum!doc, and did not want to use one of her shots last night.
Bella is Juliet, but not actually a doc
Bella is not actually Juliet, but one of her partners is Juliet.
(And then several other explanations that I have thought of, but feel less likely and do start to break away from the occam's razor)

------

Now for her to be town

Town!Bella guessed the night kill on Bell, and despite being a doctor that guessed the night kill, her ability failed

This is first not super likely night 2 in this large of a game (especially with Bell having not claimed anything other then Neighbor), and second a mystery thing that would have to be accounted for.

[Lukewarm]

I just glanced over Bell's ISO. He actually read Taly as scum for most of the game, I think until the response to the gladiate. Even after that, in d2, he just told DP that he'd respect the Taly veto, which suggests to me that if the veto wasn't there he'd still consider voting Taly. I doubt he even told Taly any revealing info about his flavor given he believed his role matched his flavor.

This wait might be pointless.

I agree that he probably did not full claim to her

But assuming that their hood was done like mine, she had Bell's flavor told to her by the mod.

So, I don't think it matters if Bell trusted her or not to get the flavor.

[Lukewarm]

Wait. I am so dumb. Toog claimed Bell's flavor

[Lukewarm]

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone.

[Lukewarm]

I really doubt he was macho.

But definitely not a doc, which was the most likely other macho.

[Lukewarm]

For his career, Boone worked a wedding planning company.

Was presented as a spoiler rich kid (got his job, because his mom owned the company)

Super hesitant to do the dirty work of being on the island.

Is in love with his step sister, but she wont be with him X.X

Over time is convinced by Locke that they were on the island for a Greater Purpose.

Died when an old airplane fell off a cliff and crushed him.

---

Would guess Vanilla Neighbor with his step sister tbh.

[Lukewarm]

Super hesitant to do the dirty work of being on the island.

Well, at least until he turns to helping with that stuff to distract himself from said step sister not being with him.

eww

[Lukewarm]

I'm down to kill Bella now.

[Lukewarm]

I do and I also don’t see why Bella - who isn’t doc - would request to be role copped, do you?

If Bella is town doc, her slot is resolvable, because I don’t see town!Bella doc living very long and this way, we probably save Drap tonight.

1) scum doc would still come back doc to a role cop

2) a town role cop is dead, so not even likely we have another

[Lukewarm]

So what are the chances that bella actually stole her partners flavor instead? or they got a fake town claim with flavor?
or maybe they got a role cop on one of the dead towns role?

Don't you know, once someone is forced to claim after being tracked to the night kill, we should take both their flavor and role claims at face value?

And world build starting from a point of assuming they are always telling the truth?

[Lukewarm]

I have read rads arguement.

I still want to kill Bella, so my vote is staying there.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I should add on that Drap also claimed to not get a result night 1. So it is really claim vs claim here. Nothing is proved without a flip, and in light of that a Bella town flip makes Drap likely scum.

Disagree.

Drap said: I HAVE A GUILTY ON BELLA
Bella said: I visited Bell, but I'm still town.


Bella confirmed the drap is telling the truth about being a tracker, so Bellas alignment has nothing to do with Draps at this point

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I should add on that Drap also claimed to not get a result night 1. So it is really claim vs claim here. Nothing is proved without a flip, and in light of that a Bella town flip makes Drap likely scum.

Disagree.

Drap said: I HAVE A GUILTY ON BELLA
Bella said: I visited Bell, but I'm still town.


Bella confirmed the drap is telling the truth about being a tracker, so Bellas alignment has nothing to do with Draps at this point

I don't agree because we don't have any other confirmed action.

So in your mind, if Bella flips town then scum!drap just happened to guess that Bella visited Bell?

No.

Regardless of alignment, drap is a role that learned that Bella visited Bell.

Bella being town does not change that.

[Lukewarm]

Yes, I want to know why his track on CSF n1 failed but it was successful on Bella. Something isn’t making sense with this but I highly doubt it has anything whatsoever to do with Drap’s alignment.

Mafia probably has a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, that’s what I conclude as most likely scenario.

So what is your theory if so, why if either is the case, it only occurred on one of the two nights? That’s the part I don’t understand.

Because there are different targets between night 1 and night 2.

The last several pages are frustrating to read.

[Lukewarm]

Yes, I want to know why his track on CSF n1 failed but it was successful on Bella. Something isn’t making sense with this but I highly doubt it has anything whatsoever to do with Drap’s alignment.

Mafia probably has a Roleblocker or Rolestopper, that’s what I conclude as most likely scenario.

So what is your theory if so, why if either is the case, it only occurred on one of the two nights? That’s the part I don’t understand.

Because there are different targets between night 1 and night 2.

The last several pages are frustrating to read.

I know but there has to be some reason it failed n1 but succeeded n2. I have no idea why but I believe Drap failed to get results on n1.

If it is because of a role stop, then it is because CSF is the role stole, and Bella is not.

If it is because of a role blocker, then it is because the scum team role blocked drap night 1 because he was loudly proclaiming that doctors should be on him.

But then decided to target someone else night 2.

[Lukewarm]

Wait, not. That is ascetic not role stop

[Lukewarm]

Sorry I should add on that Drap also claimed to not get a result night 1. So it is really claim vs claim here. Nothing is proved without a flip, and in light of that a Bella town flip makes Drap likely scum.

This is not true though. Bella confirmed that she visited Bell, which confirms Drap as a Tracker. Bella offered an alternative reason to a night kill (which I don't believe), but if she telling the truth it doesn't point to Drap scum. It just confirms the alternative reason offered.

+1

I understand that the claim does not hard clear Drap if Bella flips town.

But I disagree that it points to scum

[Lukewarm]

tbone hardtown for this line of reasoning imo

For thinking Bella!town=Drap!scum?

??????

yea

this reasoning is too awful to come from scum

I can see that.

It was rubbing me the wrong way, but not in a scummy way

[Lukewarm]

At best it's not alignment indicative

Imo, at worst it's not alignment indicative lol

[Lukewarm]

But anyway just killing time till Talyslot speaks about Bell yeah?

We originally decided to wait for Taly because I wanted Bell's flavor.

But then I remembered that Toog already claimed Bells flavor.

I don't know that we need to keep waiting for Taly (she already claimed no additional role, so she wont have info for herself)

[Lukewarm]

At best it's not alignment indicative

Imo, at worst it's not alignment indicative lol

Imagine living in a world where you make a claim that gets town mislimmed and then people town read you for it. Remind me to try this next time I am scum.

I mean go for it, but it only works if your claim is true.

It is true that Bella visited Bell.

Step one, learn incriminating information about a townie.
Step two, reveal incriminating information about that townie to the thread.
Step three, profit

[Lukewarm]

scum!Drap tracks town!Bella doc coincidentally to the NK. Ok!

Good luck setting up that pure luck scenario as scum!

Like... any scum!Drap scenario here is absolutely more ridiculous than any town!Bella doc scenario

Scum watcher would be the serious possibility for this.

Both Night Kill and Watch Bell

See Bella visiting Bell.

[Lukewarm]

I dispute that Bella flipping town makes Drap town. It just makes him a tracker. How is that hard to understand?

I agree with you that he is not cleared by a Bella town flip.

But I disagree that it means should be flipped tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

@Tbone

Spoiler:

Maybe this makes my stance more clear:

Thoughts if Bella flips scum

Does

Town!Drap

, upon seeing Bella visit the night kill, out that to the thread.

Absolutely.

Does

Scum!Drap

come out with a guilty check on his partner today?

Probably not.

---

Conclusion:

If Bella flips scum, Drap is likely town, and I would probably not reconsider unless he is alive at elo

Thoughts if Bella flips Town

Does

Town!Drap

, upon seeing Bella visit the night kill, out that to the thread.

Absolutely.

Does

Scum!Drap

, upon seeing Bella visit the night kill, out that to the thread.

Absolutely.

---

Conclusion:

If Bella flips Town, then revealing means little for his alignment, and we are back to judging him off of his play

I am distinctly disagreeing with you, that in the world of Bella flipping town, it means that drap is more likely to be scum because he revealed the Bella track.

Town!Drap reveals the Bella track, regardless of Bella's alignment.

[Lukewarm]

There is a website you can use, but it requires you to put some extra stuff in a spoiler tag in the first post in order to tell the website what it is doing.

STD does not have that in the OP, so this is a count by hand game

[Lukewarm]

i wish day was longer honestly, there was something i wanted to like talk about but not outright say

A little late to be saying this lmao

[Lukewarm]

i wish day was longer honestly, there was something i wanted to like talk about but not outright say

A little late to be saying this lmao

i sorry

Did you want to try and get it in before the lock, or just wait for tomorrow?

[Lukewarm]

Rereading Corwin, math, and Bella, I think that enchant always flips scum. I found reason to think he was partnered with literally all 3 of them

VOTE: enchant

[Lukewarm]

what's up friends

I am a novice two shot cop

T-Bone & Lukewarm are town

I checked with Dragons I am confirmed sane

wow, talk about paranoid.

This feels like a wasted shot. But I was actually wondering about the fact that the scum team had not killed either of us, and I was wondering if they were hoping that you and I would turn on one another by end game because of your paranoid posting

So maybe it at least messed with their plans lol.

[Lukewarm]

Flavor

Vote Count 2.3

5 Mathblade (Lukewarm, Bell, Taly, RCEnigma, PookyTheMagicalBear)
4 Bluebloodedtoffee (Mathblade, Roden, Mislim Bait, Cat Scratch Fever)

3 Cytosine and Guanine (Rad, BlueBloodedToffee, T-Bone)

1 Enchant (Dancing Puppets)
1 Bellaphant (ProfessorDrapion)
1 Dancing Puppets (Enchant)

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-30 19:22:50)

Mod Notes

butterchurn replaces Dwlee99
Replacing Mathblade
Taly V/LA

VOTE: c and g

I believe that this is the first vote cast after that vote count, so this is the exact game state when she voted.

Bella decided not to bus Math, and instead moved C/G from 3 votes -> 4

I don't think that it makes a ton of sense for C/G to be scum in this world.

[Lukewarm]

^^ that was supposed to be a reply to this

Wow. You really checked Luke.

Not like C&G... But Luke.

C+G is gonna get limmed anyway who cares

[Lukewarm]

looking forward to PD's latest track

I tracked the one dude who has a role that doesn’t visit.
Guess what? He didn’t visit.

?

Why would you track someone who doesnt visit?

Because if you visited we could Yeet you because a person who talks to the dead isn’t able to visit.

You seriously tracked BB? Why?

Sounds like he scum read BB, and wanted to catch him in a lie

[Lukewarm]

im kinda lowkey starting to think malakittens is scum >.>

I feel like corwin spewed Mala town personally.

[Lukewarm]

are we mass claiming ? whats with all the claims kekw

i claimed cuz i'm 2 shot so I have no shots left

Kinda feel like you should have just claimed the novice. Draw in the night kill while you have not shots left.

Make scum think they are killing a PR, but really they are just confirming your results.

But :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

Luke's thoughts on Enchant via the iso's of the flipped scum players.

Spoiler: Corwin

I want to compare how Corwin engaged with Mala getting a Day 1 pass, and how he engaged with Enchant getting a Day 1 pass.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Ctrl+F "Mala" -- 26 results. Strongest scum read. So mad that Frog is pushing him, but not Mala.

Ctrl+F "Enchant" -- 1 result. Just on the read list.

Scum!Corwin mad that lurker!Mala is getting a free pass. Not mad that Enchant is getting a pass

Spoiler: Math

Did a search for Enchant in Math's iso

you know, if we can't figure out who is scum (and i'm not alone in struggling to find scumreads) we can always punt today by eliminating enchant and try again tomorrow

Why do you suggest this? I hate being this far behind.

enchant is enchant, he isn't going to do anything or become readable, and since i'm struggling to find legit scumreads i'm starting to think he could be one of the missing pieces

I feel the same about Not Mafia

But just because I can’t read someone doesn’t make them a good elim

Otherwise I would elim Titus every game and I am trying to be better about it and figure out why people ping me

Just for reference of where we are in the game when Math made this post. Math was under pressure to the point that he claimed, and was posting about how was going to die as of post 9874.

And here he is shooting down an Enchant elim, not even 100 posts later

(He then never mentions Enchant again for the rest of the game)

Spoiler: Bella

This one the thoughts feel more convoluted because it revolves around other peoples positioning, but lets go.

The Point

: Bella voted C/G over enchant, when Math was the leading wagon day 2.

And that is despite Dancing Puppets and T-Bone pushing for that to be the day 2 elim

I am interested in VCA from Titus given our three flips.

Flip BBT is my initial look. Check my posts for today.

~Titus

Tell me more about this

If I am wrong on you, then we have deep wolves dividing the game and three town wagoned for no reason D1. The kill on Dunn makes little sense if you're not scum.

The push on Math is easy. While he could be scum, it's awfully convienent for scum to push the sick guy who votes them. Doubly so when it's Math.

~Titus

Idk whether he is or not. Main thing that pinged me was Enchant’s Taly vote.

VOTE: Enchant

So I’m going to do this for now.

Okay then disregard that. Do you want to do anything about Enchant? Mutual read.

VOTE: Enchant

And then, following Puppets and T-Bone putting their votes there, I chimed in that I was on the edge of LEAVING MATH, and voting Enchant.

I just wanna say, I am literally having to work with Nancy here to get even one vote on Enchant so this is anything but easy.

I keep going back and forth between voting there, and sticking to my math read tbh

Puppets+T-Bone+Me is an incredible start to a wagon, and with the three of us making these kinds of posts, I feel like the scum team should love the idea of saving Math by killing town!enchant here.

That post from me was 9129, and in 9178, Bella has Enchant as a scum read. But still does not vote.

My scum reads are boring -

there's at least one scum in Johnny/mala/enchant.

I think best bird is just flat scum. I'm trying not to scum read professor drapion. Math could be scum. I guess my spicier scum reads are that I wouldn't be surprised if oth was scum. Occasionally I waver on pooky:, but they are probably town.

And instead ends up on C/G with 9205.

---

And yes, I am aware that C/G was a bigger wagon at the time of her vote.

But having a wagon composition of : Rad, BBT, TBone on C/G compared to Puppets, Luke, TBone on Enchant feels like where they should want to go.

(I also pull a vote off of Math)

---

So, basically. There are calls for an enchant elimination, from several players with high thread sway. AND bella has a stated scum read on Enchant, AND math can never vote C/G based on his reads (but can vote enchant) BUT Bella chooses to join C/G instead of Enchant

[Lukewarm]

I believe that this is the first vote cast after that vote count, so this is the exact game state when she voted.

Bella decided not to bus Math, and instead moved C/G from 3 votes -> 4

I don't think that it makes a ton of sense for C/G to be scum in this world.

interesting choice to go for c&g over BBT in that scenario

Yeah, I thought about that two, when Malcolm and I were talking about it over night.

Biggest hang up for me, was the looking at why Bella ended up on C/G.

Can I interest you in a C&G vote, Bella?

I'll re read corwin tonight but yeah, have this as a deposit.

This is a kinda awkward interaction if they are scum/scum, and I feel like BBT would have just said for Bella to figure out a way onto the C/G wagon in the scum chat, and this interaction would have never happened.

So, I agree that it could have been because all of BBT/Math/Bella were scum, but it did not feel rock solid to me.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I thought about that

two

too, when Malcolm and I were talking about it over night.

Kill me.

[Lukewarm]

im kinda lowkey starting to think malakittens is scum >.>

I feel like corwin spewed Mala town personally.

oh where?

Literally open up corwin's iso, and Ctrl+f search Mala.

Mala was his single strongest scum read, and he was telling people off for giving her a day 1 pass.

I am not sure that scum!Corwin, is going to try that hard to get people to reconsider scum!mala

[Lukewarm]

Oh, just a general announcement of reads update. My read of Rad has tanked from upber town read -> null.

I am aware that lots of people still town read him, so don't really feel like touching that any time soon.

[Lukewarm]

So Enchant hard-bussed Bella yesterday?

after there was a guilty on her? sure

[Lukewarm]

I kinda feel like scum!Rad would explain the Bell kill, since Bell could have been seen as the obstacle for scum!rad being able to end game.

[Lukewarm]

Anyways.

That is not a discussion for toDay.

To kill Enchant!

[Lukewarm]

I disagree

Who do you think that we should kill?

[Lukewarm]

Besides the sheer degree of nuance in his Bella defence read really townie to me

Okay, well if you+Rad make it to Elo, and I don't maybe think back to this conversation.

Like I said, I am not trying to kill him today. I am more confident in Enchant anyways.

[Lukewarm]

I did not find his progression on Bella believable at all really.

By contrast, even though you were both arguing to save Bella, I did find yours believable

[Lukewarm]

Marci. Are you claiming coroner?

[Lukewarm]

Marci. Are you claiming coroner?

I misread your earlier posts as being about best bird, which is why i didnt follow up with you.

Happy to hear from you if you have something for us

[Lukewarm]

Luke's case in the hood re Enchant was solid and I largely agreed with it. Reading back Enchant's posts towards the end of the turn and they seemed a little bit too confident in advance Bella was coming back scum.

Oh forgot about that. Enchant was his hood mate.

I’m not confident on Enchant but there’s no way scum wasn’t on Bella wagon. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game where scum didn’t vote mech guiltied buddy. Especially when you have a consensus tr making that guilty.

I don't think that enchant is anyone's hood mate? Might be wrong there are a lot of hoods

[Lukewarm]

Nancy, I am in a hood with Malcolm. And Malcolm was referring to our hood, because I made the same scum enchant case in the hood as I just did here

[Lukewarm]

Marci. Are you claiming coroner?

yes

a one shot public one

i want it to be agreed whatll be most helpful to see instead of me just being selfish and doing for my own reads

I'll think on it

[Lukewarm]

what's up friends

I am a novice two shot cop

T-Bone & Lukewarm are town

I checked with Dragons I am confirmed sane

ceph just roasted you for this - ngl. i laughed.

Wait. You keep your ghost friends?

I kinda assumed they were good for 1 day only

[Lukewarm]

Someone day-vig macolm for me and flip me if he flips green please. Or day-vig me and flip malcolm after. I'm up for either at this point.

Ew.

Rad making my read on him tank further.

[Lukewarm]

idk about you i would waste coroner on MathBlade.

Been there.
Done that.

Okay, what was he?

[Lukewarm]

same, tbh.

You gotta get out of my head dude

[Lukewarm]

I sometimes wonder if I’m invisible.

Maybe I am.

I could be.

I read that post before I read your recent posts about being a coroner.

Thought you were agreeing with the analysis on why Puppets thought he was one.

Did you coroner anyone night 1 or 3?

[Lukewarm]

That would affect the who marci should consider

[Lukewarm]

What was bella?

[Lukewarm]

oh - what was ceph's exact role?

Spicy.

[Lukewarm]

Bb asking that feels like a confirmation that he true claimed. It felt real anyways, but him coming up with the gotcha for mala feels extra real

[Lukewarm]

If mala already hit both scum with her coroner, I feel like the only person marci could even check right now would be Dunn?

I believe that both are true claiming btw

[Lukewarm]

Frog feels like a waste, since he claimed before he died

[Lukewarm]

I will only be voting between enchant and Rad today, unless some mech shenanigans happen

[Lukewarm]

@Marci

If its not too late, I think you should actually sit on your shot

[Lukewarm]

My problem with the choice to ghost-neighbor ceph is that it's clear to me from the gladiation proceedings he was operating to feed his own ego vs. to the town's benefit

He didn't feel confident in his reads and felt the day length was antitown so he polled some town reads on who to gladiate to progress us forward. I don't agree with this comment.

i agree. Ceph's play was obviously townie, and also obviously coming from a place of trying to help the town.

Even with it missing, I don't really regret suggesting he do it.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this game ever since we got out of day 1. But it really felt like we were never getting out of day 1.

[Lukewarm]

@Marci

If its not too late, I think you should actually sit on your shot

[Lukewarm]

i am wondering if everyone who has claimed their role (Pooky, Mala, Marci) should claim their flavor.

Feels to me like the danger of flavor claiming is letting the scum guess your role, but for them the role is already out there

[Lukewarm]

Ceph presenting his 4 scum reads to then be chooses between by his town reads feels like a pretty town cohesion mindset to me.

He even caught 1 scum in his presented list

But Ceph already flipped town, and so this is an entirely pointless conversations.

[Lukewarm]

i am wondering if everyone who has claimed their role (Pooky, Mala, Marci) should claim their flavor.

Feels to me like the danger of flavor claiming is letting the scum guess your role, but for them the role is already out there

any flavor buffs know if a soup kill (bonus kill granted to scum that works on anyone they know/can guess the flavor of) makes sense in this theme?

~GE

Bell, Taly, Roden, and Butter all flavor claimed night 1. So this seems unlikely to be an issue this game.

[Lukewarm]

sup

[Lukewarm]

hmmmm.

That is part of what I was thinking about.

Mr. Eko being a novice cop feels like the most out of place flavor->role so far of every claim.


Rose->Mason with Bernard
Bernard->Mason with Rose

Boone->neighbor with Shannon
Shannon->neighbor with Boone

Juliet -> Macho doc

Hurley -> Talks to ghosts.

Jin-> Day 1 posting restriction / neighbor with Sun
Sun->Neighbor with Jin

Sayid->Role cop

Guessing Miles -> Coronor

Guessing Locke / Kate -> Tracker

Mr.Eko -> 2 shot cop??

[Lukewarm]

how does mr eko not make sense as a novice cop

He goes from drug dealer -> Fake priest -> kills someone with his bare hands -> completely mute -> tricked by the main villain of the show into doing what he says.

Not sure what of that screams cop, especially with Ana Lucia, a literal LAPD officer, in the show.

[Lukewarm]

dude literally shows up super late and interrogates people to find out whether they r good or bad

He does not do that interrogation.

The throws Michael, Jin, and Sawyer into the prison along side Ana Lucia, who pretends to be a prisoner too, and she is the one asking them questions.

[Lukewarm]

No. The sample vanilla townie is Ilana. A completely different character lol

[Lukewarm]

@Marci.

Because there was a kill save that happened today, I can imagine a scenario down the line where scum fake claim the doc that saved who ever was killed today. Being able to check a dead townie that we did not learn their role before they died, feels like a useful thing to keep on hand to discourage them from trying that.

[Lukewarm]

@Marci.

Because there was a kill save that happened today, I can imagine a scenario down the line where scum fake claim the doc that saved who ever was killed today. Being able to check a dead townie that we did not learn their role before they died, feels like a useful thing to keep on hand to discourage them from trying that.

This feels more useful then checking Dunn currently.

If there is a better choice that comes up, then sure. We can look into it.

[Lukewarm]

daniel

Daniel as a coroner is about equal to Eko as a cop, so this actually makes me feel better about pookys claim lol

[Lukewarm]

daniel

Daniel as a coroner is about equal to Eko as a cop, so this actually makes me feel better about pookys claim lol

I actually have a similar guess as to how eko ended up a cop as I do why Daniel would end up a coroner.

I am interested in reading stds mod pt post game to see if I am right lol

[Lukewarm]

I am most interested in your partner analysis for Math/Corwin based on your hood.

You have posts by flipped mafia, that no one else has access to.

[Lukewarm]

Are we just accepting that town have all of - can talk to dead, can role check dead and 1-Shot coroner as well?

This all makes sense to everyone yeah?

crying about game imbalance comes from scum like 80% of the time

inclined to agree esp w math scumflip

~GE

I don’t see what this has anything to do with game imbalance? I think it’s not unreasonable to be sceptical about this, which is different.

most of the time when i hear skepticism about role balance in any game it comes from a scumbag getting all salty about game balance

Meh?

I feel like scum would actually be more salty over town having 2 masons, 2 cop clears, and a tracker (in a game where they are already more out numbered then to be expected) Then town getting lots of ways to look at flipped roles.

Also, I am pretty guilty of getting overtly worried of town with too many PR claims -- see subreddit uPick lmao -- so I know it can come from town.

[Lukewarm]

daniel

Daniel as a coroner is about equal to Eko as a cop, so this actually makes me feel better about pookys claim lol

bruh if you guys actually vote out a cop who is un'cc'd and randomly claimed out of nowhere just to spew results I'd be laughing too hard to defend myself

by which i mean I'd find the whole situation too funny/absurd to care lol

At no point have I voted you dude.

But, believe it or not, I have thoughts about things that happen in the game.

Your choices were odd, I squinted pretty hard at the fact that you announced you were out of shots, and your flavor didn't make sense to me. That was enough for me to comment on it.

In my opinion, this is an "If pooky is still alive at Elo" issue, but I am not really sure that I make it there, so gonna say it now.

[Lukewarm]

except you guys lost

get rekt nub

I did lose that game.

Glad you engaged with my point

[Lukewarm]

Sorry.

i was actually kinda frustrated about something that I was dealing with OOG at the same time that I was reading up just now.

Might have responded with the wrong energy here lol

[Lukewarm]

Luke I don't think you understand the faith I have in you

to claim my inno and annoint you as GUARDIAN AND LEADERPERSON OF THIS TOWN

I am putting my life in your hands buddy

let's fucking goooooooo

If I was really trying to shoot my shot as town leader, I'd say let's kill Rad.

Because I trust the town to kill enchant after I am dead and gone, but not so much with Rad lol

[Lukewarm]

But also, more confident in enchant. So :shrug: we can stay here

[Lukewarm]

Can we kill enchanted

Fine.

VOTE: enchant

Hey Mala, why did you go from requesting an Enchant kill, to seeming like you are just accepting it?

[Lukewarm]

Luke I don't think you understand the faith I have in you

to claim my inno and annoint you as GUARDIAN AND LEADERPERSON OF THIS TOWN

I am putting my life in your hands buddy

let's fucking goooooooo

If I was really trying to shoot my shot as town leader, I'd say let's kill Rad.

Because I trust the town to kill enchant after I am dead and gone, but not so much with Rad lol

bruh i'm down to yeet rad

Let's do it baby.

I got a paranoid scum team read of something like you, tbone or Luke (just 1, other likely town), plus other, maybe Malcolm. Prob not Luke and Malcolm (too obvious) so it would more likely be tbone, or maybe Luke enchant. I think this game is scum driven and bus heavy, but that seems ridiculous and I dunno how scum pooky or Luke get to end game without being obv scum so it's whatever. I know I've been afraid to say this which makes me think scum has created an environment where it doesn't feel comfortable to speak up, and the lurker types certainly aren't causing that. But hey fuck it

It feels like we broke Rad.

I kinda want to look back at that past rad game against to look at how he handled suspicion.

But can't be bothered atm

[Lukewarm]

He wants to call the people scum reading him scum, but realizes that me and pooky both pushed math.

[Lukewarm]

I did not find his progression on Bella believable at all really.

By contrast, even though you were both arguing to save Bella, I did find yours believable

Progression when? Pre or post track reveal?

post.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

It was the

"wow no one is even thinking about this, occam's razzor says that bella is town because of the track result"
to
"oh shucks, you guys convinced me. it would be actually a crazy series of coincidences needed for Bella to be town"
to
"Actually, here is a (quite flawed btw) plan on how to leash Bella to prove that she is town"

Spoiler:

Nah everyone jumped on Bella without any analysis, is why I'm comparing it to RVS.

Actually Occam's Razor given the likelihood of Bella being an actual doc based on flavor is that town!Bella sat on Bell and Bell is macho so now he's dead.

You gotta deny Bella's a doc at all for there to be a better Occam's Razor cause the scum!Bella doc scenarios are complicated.

Let's do this

VOTE: Bella

Strongman targets Bell and town!Bella targets Bell is just wtf GG

E-2 maybe? Been a while since I checked. Caution if you vote.

Yo we already decided Juliet (bella claim) could be doc.

Did Bella steal it from a scum partner? Sure maybe.

If PD dies tonight we flip bella, 100%.

If Bella is town doc PD doesn't die. Bella dies or someone random dies.

That's the point.

The 10303 sticks out like a sore thumb, and hardly feels like it was written by the same person. Makes me feel like this was not genuine.

[Lukewarm]

kinda messed up the formatting on that x.x

[Lukewarm]

My other thoughts about Rad include his avoidance of the Math wagon day 2, despite claiming to scum read the slot.

Back to Back votes on Math early in the Day

Spoiler:

I think I am back to this

VOTE: Math

VOTE: Mathblade

LOL @Frog town.

VOTE: Mathblade

vote's best served here

Rad shows up, and his strongest theory is cg+math S/S. Chooses to be the first vote on C/G instead of the 4th vote on Math

Spoiler:

Mod makes up post limitation as a game design element and ignores it? I don't buy it.

Player gets limitation and doesn't care what happens if they go over? I don't buy it.

2129 isn't a naked quote, it's a quote from one of the hydra's players who accidentally posted under the wrong account. If the player didn't accidentally post it under the wrong account, it would have been a 2 word post under the C&G account.

Fake post restriction.

VOTE: Cytosine and Guanine

Also Corwin must not have asked C&G about the penalty either. Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to ask if you're town and want to know what happens if they go over it. I mean why not? That's not something we want them explaining when they're restricted to 100 words. But Corwin/Math could have easily found out if they cared and let us all know.

@Rad So you think our hood is SvS? Okay, it's not impossible, but it's like very taboo. I should know having subverted that expectation in the past.
~Cytosine

Yeah I would read this scenario as a SvS neighborhood.

I have no clue if that's likely or not but the general consensus seems to be that neighborhoods were random in this game, so all combinations are possible.

Decides to try out a Malcolm wagon

Spoiler:

All aboard

VOTE: Malcolm

Rad does his Daily Round up, which frankly feels kinda biased against killing Math. Like read math, then read C/G and malcolm lol.

Spoiler:

Alright town let's gooooo!

We've got some great options here to discuss tonight!

First up we've got our most popular target in both Day 1 and Day 2. Mathblade!!

Mathblade was a replacement for Corwin. Both have felt kinda scummy, kinda not at various points. Math pushed hard to get town to "just talk to each other" which seems like a pretty noble thing indeed (cool!) if it wasn't also to defend against people just straight voting for him for reading him as scum (bummer...)!

Here in town we've got people with all sorts of meta reads on him. He came in pretty slow and steady and people meta read him as scum for it, so then he ramped things up and different (maybe!) people read him scum for it!

Math's meta has very conveniently settled into the "math is scum if he's in the game" territory.

Math was a neighbor to C&G and we can't quite tell what was a lie and what was the truth coming from this smooth talker. He's the Sun to C&G's Jin and supposedly Corwin was posting for both of them, like in the show (cool!), just not in any way that we can verify (bummer...).

It's probably the truth, we just don't realize it (Yeeesss)!

Hurry and vote today for Mathblade before his slot gets replaced with someone who makes you question your reality, or if flipping the slot sounds fun to you!

Next up we've got... BlueBloodedToffee!

BBT was the most excited person to get this game together. I bet most of you are in here because he messaged you in some way to get you to join! Siiiick. He also likes to skip out for long periods of time, complain about how much has happened since he last visited, and then proceed to spam page tops more effectively than anyone! Of his 292 posts, approximately 276 of them are pagetops! KING!

BBT is notoriously difficult to read with masterful blending of town and scum play styles, or in other words, both his town and scum play are incredibly scummy! Which one is he this time?? Don't bother with that meta nonsense, says his signature, cause BBT screams scum no matter what so just stop it don't bother!!

BBT has been especially good at naked votes this game, where he strips hi... I mean, where he votes for someone with no specified reason. This is a new term for me cause I'm a newbie and I love sharing my newbie status with people. Cool!

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0.

BBT is a great counter wagon to just about anyone. If you see a wagon gaining momentum and you want to stop it, just vote for BBT. BOOM instant competing 3-6 person BBT wagon!

Next we have... Cytosine and Guanine aka C&G aka CaG aka cg aka DNA?? aka Jin

C&G could only speak up to 100 words during day 1. This is a legit restriction that the mod gave them. I bet you can't guess what the penalty is if you go over. Can you? Can you guess it? I mean not that you'd want to guess it, you could just ask the mod, but why would you do that? And why would their neighbor ask about it? Booooring. Also fuck the mod, let's go over 100 words anyway. It's not like we have a neighbor who could literally "translate" to the rest of town like in the show Lost that this restriction seems based on. Nah that's stupid just hit 103 words and give the mod the middle finger and let's move onto our next and last entry...

Malcolm!

Malcolm is currently writing an action horror novel staring Rad (that's me!). Follow Rad's character as the narrator describes in excrutiating details all the scummy shit only someone like Rad could pull off. There's no move Rad makes that isn't precicely calculated with the singular goal of town muuurrrdeerrrr.

Malcolm has also recently unlocked the "fastest 3 votes" achievement. Congrats! Luke will be giving out this award later in your neighborhood where you can defend Rad's town creds back and forth before you realize he's not just a character in your spy romance novel, he's... puurrree eeeviiiillll!

I'll just wait here and vote with town when town's ready so let's go town, let's vote out the scum!

Like really. He leans scum on Math. Sees literally all of his town reads on Math. Voting Math is apparently a struggle for him

Spoiler:

The top 2 wagons right now are uneventful from my perspective.

6 Mathblade (Lukewarm, Bell, Taly, Cat Scratch Fever, BlueBloodedToffee, RCEnigma)
3 Bluebloodedtoffee (Mathblade, Roden, Off the Hook)

Math is full of my town reads and town leans, but I'm not super confident in my own reads
BBT has Math which I scum lean, Roden which is a supposed mason which I just accept but have no real read on, and OTH which I have null atm

And then a bunch of 1 person wagons.

If I had to choose between those right now, as a gladiate, I flip Math, but I'm not super confident in it.

---

Which combine the above with the way he treated Bella. He has poor interactions with both flipped scum's wagons imo.

---

it was Luke or bell for me and I assumed if another doc then prolly on other obv! town

I kinda want to read this as the scum team really was debating between me and Bell that night on who to kill. So those were the two that she claimed to be debating protecting.

And why kill Bell over Luke? - we are both widely town read. we both look good on the math flip. we both claimed neighbor (and I had even been dropping hints all game that I am more then a neighbor)

But. Luke has Rad as #1 Town Read. Bell has Rad as scum Read.

I don't actually know of any other read off the top of my head that we disagreed on. (could be wrong, but Bell did not do a reads list day 2 for me to compare to.)

---

And then basically all of his posting today.

His Paranoia solve flies in the face of his own presented play this game.

I think this game is scum driven and bus heavy, but that seems ridiculous and I dunno how scum pooky or Luke get to end game without being obv scum so it's whatever.

I know I've been afraid to say this

which makes me think scum has created an environment where it doesn't feel comfortable to speak up, and the lurker types certainly aren't causing that. But hey fuck it

He is acting like this paranoia has been here for a while, but he was too afraid to speak on it. But that simply does not match his play.

When he was thinking about not killing Bella, I was the single person in the whole player list that he reached out to, by name, to do a "sanity check"

Luke sanity check me please.

Did scum!Bella the doc or not doc go kill Bell last night?

Is that what you do to someone that you have a paranoia read on, that you are just too afraid to voice?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Rad

[Lukewarm]

Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome!

You were not even voting Math at the time that you wrote 9443? And your cases against the other people were noticeably sharper.

Kinda hard to give you credit for the math wagon my friend.

[Lukewarm]

There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.

[Lukewarm]

Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.

[Lukewarm]

There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.

Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't intending to specifically flip math with that. I just picked the top 4 realistic wagons. I actually had a town lean on BBT there and wrote him up anyway. I had scum leans on everyone else. But I saw town stalling and wanted to push things forward, and I believe it was successful at that.

Oh. You basically answered that you were not trying to flip math with that post.

With that being said, what about you making that post is anti-partnered with Math?

Because that is the only part of this discussion that matters.

And if it does not do anything towards making you anti-partnered with math, then what even is the point of this conversation?

[Lukewarm]

On an unrelated note.

If there is an Ana Lucia, cop PR, out there

first: do not claim.

BUT, I would love for you to reach out to the Mod to ask if they would confirm you as Sane.

If you get a clear cut, "You are sane," then don't worry about it.

But if you get anything like "I can't tell you more then your role PM" or some other such nonsense, probably out that.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Enchant[/vote

Still leaning scum on Rad, but enchant is likely also scum.

And probably have the votes for that today

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Enchant
Still leaning scum on Rad, but enchant is likely also scum.

And probably have the votes for that today

[Lukewarm]

Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.

I looked back to remember why I felt we were "stalled". These posts were what drove my big post:

Spoiler:

Mathblade

Mathblade

he's so hard to kill even when he's gone lol

Doesn't help that we're off wagon atm

I think it has more to do with this town than it has to do with Mathblade.
Whatever people want out of mafia they aren't getting so they won't eliminate anyone until they get whatever it is.

I wanted to motivate town to join in on a single wagon, whether that was my c&g one or one of the others.

This selection of posts feels tailor made to make it look like you expected it to kill of Math....

The posts immediately proceeding your presenter posts included a lot about momentum onto C/G.

Spoiler:

Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg

why?

Doubting their claim. I actually think that they did have a posting restriction, but I don't believe that the punishment was death and it was not made clear to them.

Seems more likely to me, that the actually affect of breaking the posting restriction would be one that they don't want to tell the class.

I also have not gotten good vibes from them since they have lifted their posting restriction.

I also had a thought at the time of the flips, that if the mafia did kill Frog, then that would make sense in a world with scum C/G, given they were one of the 2 total suggestions made for Frog to Rolecop. (Dunn and i suggested dunn, roden suggested C/G).

And that thought came back when C/G just joined the discussion to advocate for you targeting Dunn over Frog.

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

Also this

C&G is off, but I can smell the fake role posturing from here.
If they're actually just neighbor VT here they're playing exceptionally badly as either alignment.
I'll leave a 0 star review on their yelp page.

Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)

Also this

mmm...they still aren't voting....i don't like that

VOTE: C&g]

Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg

Choo choo

[Lukewarm]

I feel like that last post I made is going to cause more back and forth with Rad...

Rad. I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why town!Rad would have made that post.

And I feel that explanation coming from you already.

But reasonableness does not matter.

There is a "reasonable" explanation for that post from town!rad, and a "reasonable" explanation for that post from scum!rad.

But it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.

[Lukewarm]

it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.

My Alignment Indicative Point was this:

Rad avoided joining the Math wagon, until the Math wagon looked pretty inevitable. And this was despite it being the biggest wagon, and rad claiming to want consolidation. And this was despite having a scum read/scum lean on the slot. And this was despite Rad noticing that all of his town reads were voting the slot.

That feel scum indicative to me.

And it feels like you are countering that, without actually making an alignment indicative point.

I don't care how reasonable it is for Town!Rad to have done the same thing. Because scum are never going to do something that they don't think that it is reasonable for them to have done as town.

[Lukewarm]

It's a kind of weird sequence where he uses Luke's post that mentions Enchant as a springboard to talk about how Enchant (along with a list of others that includes Math) is an easy push and that we should all be watching out for people who push them with bad reasons, while also framing it as Luke's point (despite Luke's point being different) that he is seeking to confirm.

Yeah. I spotted that too.

Part of why Enchant+Rad feels like a solid solve. They look kinda partnered, while both looking kinda partnered with Math and Bella.

[Lukewarm]

Luke this (and your other recent posts) is why I town read you and scum read Malcolm.

Awww <3

And here I was thinking it would be the cop inno on me.

Lol

[Lukewarm]

Btw, if enchant flips scum, my town read on Malcom grows a bit stronger, because I made that whole enchant is scum case in our hood over night, and I'm still alive.

(I am assuming i was not saved? Becaise it feels like they would have needed to try and kill drap and that would mean that both the scum team AND a doctor decided not to target the tracker, so kind of assuming that is not the case)

[Lukewarm]

I feel like the scum team would prefer kills on drapion, mason1, mason2, pooky, or me over RCE personally.

Like pr claim or an unmiselimable. Of which, rce was neither.

So maybe? But I also assume there is a doc!Jack out there somewhere, and a save from him seems more likely to me

[Lukewarm]

The scum have to kill the masons before endgame.

Like, I understand that they might not kill them right away if they feel like they have better targets, but I feel like they die before an rce shot.

[Lukewarm]

GG all!

13 days was a marathon!

[Lukewarm]

@Rad

Really sorry that I pushed for your elim so hard even after my death lmao. The links I saw between you and flipped scum were just too powerful for me to keep you as town in my reads, even after having you as a pretty strong town read day 1/2. Maybe i should have trusted my earlier reads more

You were great to play with, and I hope to see you in more games!

6 No-lim (Off the Hook, Mathblade, Rad, PookyTheMagicalBear, Dancing Puppets, Cat Scratch Fever,

@Everyone who voted no elim day 1

, just want to say that this game is a perfect example why, even if you think the only people who can go over this day phase are town, it is still better to ensure that an elim happens then to allow a no elim. Killing town forces people who think that person is scum to reset and gives info to solve from moving on, but also reads are not perfect and they might just be scum!