LOST (Game Over)

[MalcolmTucker]

Math doesn't feel like he did in our last two games where I was convinced he was town, but I was asked to meta him in one of them and found him inconsistent throughout. It says something about me that I find them an easier town read when they are being adamantly ridiculous.

I'm finding Math incredibly hard to read. Feel like so much of the discussion surrounding their slot has revolved around Corwin which has obscured being able to read posts from Math himself, if that makes sense. I feel like a lot of my TR's are suspicious on the slot though so I need to give Math more attention.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Reading back some of Rad's posts from later D1 and they feel incredibly scummy.

Lot of their posts toward the end feel indecisive in a way that's quite unnatural, as if they were unsure where to lean. Manage to go from voting Taly, to advocating for no elimination, to then voting out Ceph in a relatively short space of time. The progression doesn't work for me as being from town.

Imma be real

I think I did this flip flopping too

[MalcolmTucker]

Flavor

you may only vote for Taly or Cephrir

Vote Count 1.31

13 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, Malakittens, Lukewarm, T-Bone, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets, Mathblade, RCEnigma, Bell)
7 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, Roden, Cat Scratch Fever)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, Best Bird)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Klick
Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Titus V/LA
Best Bird V/LA
Taly V/LA
Lukewarm V/LA
Mathblade V/LA
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

So three of taly's voters flip town
1 is mason and 1 is klick which is the person I subbed for and know that is town.
any reason why we shouldn't speed lunch taly here?
I'll try to read malcolm and cat

You may have missed that there was a gladiate between Ceph and Taly day 1, which kinda messes with this line of thinking imo

thats fair
although from a quick skim of taly's iso.
they didnt have an initial read on ceph before the gladiate and their case against ceph centered around the whole gladiate thing being scum motivated.
This could probably be excused due to it being 1v1 but still a bit of bad look.
will look forward to how they will bounce back today after they were wrong on their reads.

I can see this from town Taly to be fair. The gladiate itself seemed a bit...out of nowhere at the time and if you're a townie who's not exactly on the verge of being eliminated, I can see why you'd grow convinced that scum are trying to forcibly eliminate you from the game. I think Ceph was town and I think some of the votes to eliminate them are incredibly suspect, but the motivation for why scum Ceph might go for the gladiate wasn't entirely terrible and given how the votes lined up, it's clear some townies bought into that.

[MalcolmTucker]

Reading back some of Rad's posts from later D1 and they feel incredibly scummy.

Lot of their posts toward the end feel indecisive in a way that's quite unnatural, as if they were unsure where to lean. Manage to go from voting Taly, to advocating for no elimination, to then voting out Ceph in a relatively short space of time. The progression doesn't work for me as being from town.

Imma be real

I think I did this flip flopping too

Oh I don't doubt a lot of us were uncertain, especially given there were plenty of consensus TR's on both Ceph and Taly.

I outlined in more detail but it's more the way Rad managed to explicitly go from Taly > no elim > Ceph in what I'd argue was a relatively short space of time. There's other posts prefacing this with "my reads aren't great" type content which feels a bit like self-conscious scum to me who was unsure where best to place themselves toward the end of D1 while everyone else was shifting around.

The only thing that's dampening the read a little bit is that I largely townread Taly - if I didn't this would absolutely read like scum who wanted to bus but then wavered, before finally eliminating a townie when the opportunity to do so seemed more viable.

[MalcolmTucker]

this is what I was worried about earlier today on frogs/mala/taly being T/T/T but everybody wants to consolidate somewhere and i never understood the johnny scumreads tbh.

My Johnny scumread is that he did 2 ISOs on Malcolm and Ceph, shaded Malcolm who looked townier out of that interaction, and then seemed to have lost a lot of wim

He could be town struggling to keep up, but idk that could easily come from scum too?

Luke, I think you're misreading Frogster for doing weird, outlandish things when in my experience, it's usually wild townies who do stuff like that and get mislimmed for it.

He's really actively engaged in this game in a way that he's not when he's scum. He made <300 posts in his last Large Normal scumgame over the course of 1.5 months. He's made nearly 400 posts here in less than one game day. The disparity in engagement here is just not the same.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I can translate

Frogster doesn't have a guilty on Luke, he just really believes Luke is scum

I don't think Luke is scum, he's been scumreading you since like forever

Frog can you use it during the day?

Still think this is scum

Johnny has posted but not given his opinion on Frogster. That's the most interesting thing I've noticed

I will hammer Frogster. I have said this before

I still think he will flip town

But the silver lining in that scenario is that at least hopefully Drapion will stop being annoying

Reading back, Cat, and I do see you had an absolutely identical to Rad...which does give me pause, but I'd argue that all the posts have highlighted above are very solidly town, albeit I'm aware I could be blinded by someone having similar reads to me.

But you'd prefaced before that you would be willing to eliminate a townie if it finally brought the day to an end, your read on Frog was basically correct, I like your scumread on Johnny, and your views seem pretty balanced. Maybe I'm being a bit blinded by the similar nature of our reads...but I also feel you'd have no reason to bring up some similarities between your play and Rad's play that I've missed if you were scum. You've given me more info I didn't necessarily notice before and that's inherently quite pro-town in itself to me.

[MalcolmTucker]

*identical progression

[Bellaphant]

@ Malcolm, I noped out of the rad/dp thing when there were like five pages of people deciding it was scumny that rads read changed, when it really wasn't. In fact my read was wavering on dp around the same time and suddenly that fact seemed controversial?

Re: the gladiator, I was out of my depth here - I didn't have much of a read on Taly, I'd been saying that ceph was scum for ages to what felt like a fair amount of push back, but the gladiate itself felt town, although the target seemed a bit weird. So I think quite a few people's position around it was a.bit 'whiplash-y'.

CSF is still obv town.

Re math - when I've seen him be so odd, though, it's rarely been about himself, more mech or other people.

[Dancing Puppets]

The simpler explanation would be no hood if that's your theory Rad. Which I don't think is unreasonable.

That’s ridiculous.

Why would I fake claim a hood d1?

And SvS is impossible as I am town

I don’t believe you would, I think your hood is likely real but if that’s your argument, then you’ve obviously never played with GrandpaMo because scum!Mo actually did that with town!T3 in Anything uPick but it was very obviously fake in that case.

[Dancing Puppets]

Math how are you reading me this game?

I waffle on you.

Your posts (minus the weird intro push) make sense
But I see lots of possible scum motivation in it

I think you have the same alignment as BBT

Where are you getting that from?

[Mislim Bait]

Flavor

you may only vote for Taly or Cephrir

Vote Count 1.31

13 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, Malakittens, Lukewarm, T-Bone, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets, Mathblade, RCEnigma, Bell)
7 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, Roden, Cat Scratch Fever)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, Best Bird)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Klick
Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Titus V/LA
Best Bird V/LA
Taly V/LA
Lukewarm V/LA
Mathblade V/LA
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

So three of taly's voters flip town
1 is mason and 1 is klick which is the person I subbed for and know that is town.
any reason why we shouldn't speed lunch taly here?
I'll try to read malcolm and cat

You may have missed that there was a gladiate between Ceph and Taly day 1, which kinda messes with this line of thinking imo

thats fair
although from a quick skim of taly's iso.
they didnt have an initial read on ceph before the gladiate and their case against ceph centered around the whole gladiate thing being scum motivated.
This could probably be excused due to it being 1v1 but still a bit of bad look.
will look forward to how they will bounce back today after they were wrong on their reads.

I can see this from town Taly to be fair. The gladiate itself seemed a bit...out of nowhere at the time and if you're a townie who's not exactly on the verge of being eliminated, I can see why you'd grow convinced that scum are trying to forcibly eliminate you from the game.

I think Ceph was town and I think some of the votes to eliminate them are incredibly suspect, but the motivation for why scum Ceph might go for the gladiate wasn't entirely terrible and given how the votes lined up, it's clear some townies bought into that.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?
Some votes on ceph are incredibly suspect but also townies also voted them?

[Dancing Puppets]

To be frank if you don't have some revelation after Dunn, Frog, and Ceph flipped town.
I really doubt that flipping BBT will help you solve the game.

I mean I get Math's point.
Following dead townie's reads is a good play.

But that's all the case really has RN, they are null for me and not a wolf read so unless I get more of a case on them I'm Prob ably not voting there, probably.

Well, since Dunn died over two claimed masons, chances are reasonable that someone who he sr viewed him as a possible threat.

It’s possible of course that scum could have also feared Frog’s role cop but Dunn if he was FN, it was confirmable, so I don’t see Dunn as being the likelier vigkill if that’s what happened.

[Dancing Puppets]

I'm always down for making johnny walk the plank

I don't feel it, Bella or Blue sounds better, if we for math it should be after one of them flip IMO, or today.

I don’t think Bella’s scum. Her post about flipping her read on us three times, read townie to me. It speaks to a townie mindset imo.

[Bellaphant]

Is professor drapion always like this?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Just an fyi I'm not going to push or try to kill Taly.
I tried that yesterday. Nothing has significantly changed but if Nancy wants to bet the game on it.
Then I'm happy to hand off total responsibility for that one to her.

I'll just treat her like town now, k? k.

Like, yuck. I just don't like this pre-emptive base covering?

[Dancing Puppets]

They had a post restriction, although they seemed to have broken it.

Sorry, I shouldn't post at 3am, I briefly forgot masons! It's nice to know that Bella's sleepy gut was on the right track
@taly, you asked about reads. My strongest scum read right now is still Johnny, I think I'm mellowing on bell, I need to see a lot more from best bird. I don't know how I feel about math but I thought his bbt point was at least interesting. My big read shift at the end of yesterday was that t bone was town, it's possible off the hook is too.

I don't know how to read professor drapion - yesterday I was scum with frog, and today their scum reads are weird. I also think the consistent push on CSF is ridiculous, as they are my strongest town read.

The klick replacement is still town. I think dancing puppets is town but their read on klick at the end of yesterday was garbage and looked opportunitistic in places.

I think he’s town so I don’t understand this?

[MalcolmTucker]

Flavor

you may only vote for Taly or Cephrir

Vote Count 1.31

13 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, Malakittens, Lukewarm, T-Bone, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets, Mathblade, RCEnigma, Bell)
7 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, Roden, Cat Scratch Fever)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, Best Bird)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Klick
Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Titus V/LA
Best Bird V/LA
Taly V/LA
Lukewarm V/LA
Mathblade V/LA
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

So three of taly's voters flip town
1 is mason and 1 is klick which is the person I subbed for and know that is town.
any reason why we shouldn't speed lunch taly here?
I'll try to read malcolm and cat

You may have missed that there was a gladiate between Ceph and Taly day 1, which kinda messes with this line of thinking imo

thats fair
although from a quick skim of taly's iso.
they didnt have an initial read on ceph before the gladiate and their case against ceph centered around the whole gladiate thing being scum motivated.
This could probably be excused due to it being 1v1 but still a bit of bad look.
will look forward to how they will bounce back today after they were wrong on their reads.

I can see this from town Taly to be fair. The gladiate itself seemed a bit...out of nowhere at the time and if you're a townie who's not exactly on the verge of being eliminated, I can see why you'd grow convinced that scum are trying to forcibly eliminate you from the game.

I think Ceph was town and I think some of the votes to eliminate them are incredibly suspect, but the motivation for why scum Ceph might go for the gladiate wasn't entirely terrible and given how the votes lined up, it's clear some townies bought into that.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Some votes on ceph are incredibly suspect but also townies also voted them?

Yes? That's pretty obvious. Ceph got a majority of votes and thereby likely had a combo of scum positioning on them and town genuinely being convinced that it was a scum gambit. I didn't particularly buy into that but understood where the thought process was coming from toward the end.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Was the posting any better in the hood or was it all just...whatever their posts are this game in main thread?
I may never get over some of their posts this game. They seem potentially informed/sarcastic.

Lol I don't think I've ever been called "potentially Sarcastic" before

[MalcolmTucker]

@ Malcolm,

I noped out of the rad/dp thing when there were like five pages of people deciding it was scumny that rads read changed, when it really wasn't.

In fact my read was wavering on dp around the same time and suddenly that fact seemed controversial?

Re: the gladiator, I was out of my depth here - I didn't have much of a read on Taly, I'd been saying that ceph was scum for ages to what felt like a fair amount of push back, but the gladiate itself felt town, although the target seemed a bit weird. So I think quite a few people's position around it was a.bit 'whiplash-y'.

CSF is still obv town.

Re math - when I've seen him be so odd, though, it's rarely been about himself, more mech or other people.

It's not that Rad's read changed that was the problem, it's that the original read was backed up by nothing and the way they backed out of it was very tentative and felt too self-aware, as if they regretted ever pursuing DP in the first place. To me that'd make sense from a scum POV where scum is self-aware that they are having to manufacture a push against someone they know is town.

[Bellaphant]

Who's he, dp? Pd?

[MalcolmTucker]

Dancing Puppets...

[Bellaphant]

I was asking about 8189

[MalcolmTucker]

Mod makes up post limitation as a game design element and ignores it? I don't buy it.

Player gets limitation and doesn't care what happens if they go over? I don't buy it.

2129 isn't a naked quote, it's a quote from one of the hydra's players who accidentally posted under the wrong account. If the player didn't accidentally post it under the wrong account, it would have been a 2 word post under the C&G account.

Fake post restriction.

VOTE: Cytosine and Guanine

Also Corwin must not have asked C&G about the penalty either. Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to ask if you're town and want to know what happens if they go over it. I mean why not? That's not something we want them explaining when they're restricted to 100 words. But Corwin/Math could have easily found out if they cared and let us all know.

This vote is also very lazy from Rad. I understand the desire to check C&G complied with the posting limit but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some rather simple ways around it they exploited if they appear to be slightly over. I simply refuse to believe a slot would fake a 100-post restriction and then end up accidentally going over by two or three words, and I think any pushes there today could potentially be lazier scum trying to avoid going for a contentious target.

[Mislim Bait]

Flavor

you may only vote for Taly or Cephrir

Vote Count 1.31

13 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, Malakittens, Lukewarm, T-Bone, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets, Mathblade, RCEnigma, Bell)
7 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, Roden, Cat Scratch Fever)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, Best Bird)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Klick
Mala on V/LA until the 16th
Titus V/LA
Best Bird V/LA
Taly V/LA
Lukewarm V/LA
Mathblade V/LA
Wedding week and new job expect less from me

So three of taly's voters flip town
1 is mason and 1 is klick which is the person I subbed for and know that is town.
any reason why we shouldn't speed lunch taly here?
I'll try to read malcolm and cat

You may have missed that there was a gladiate between Ceph and Taly day 1, which kinda messes with this line of thinking imo

thats fair
although from a quick skim of taly's iso.
they didnt have an initial read on ceph before the gladiate and their case against ceph centered around the whole gladiate thing being scum motivated.
This could probably be excused due to it being 1v1 but still a bit of bad look.
will look forward to how they will bounce back today after they were wrong on their reads.

I can see this from town Taly to be fair. The gladiate itself seemed a bit...out of nowhere at the time and if you're a townie who's not exactly on the verge of being eliminated, I can see why you'd grow convinced that scum are trying to forcibly eliminate you from the game.

I think Ceph was town and I think some of the votes to eliminate them are incredibly suspect, but the motivation for why scum Ceph might go for the gladiate wasn't entirely terrible and given how the votes lined up, it's clear some townies bought into that.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Some votes on ceph are incredibly suspect but also townies also voted them?

Yes? That's pretty obvious. Ceph got a majority of votes and thereby likely had a combo of scum positioning on them and town genuinely being convinced that it was a scum gambit. I didn't particularly buy into that but understood where the thought process was coming from toward the end.

ofc it was obvious that's exactly why I asked you. You're pretty much saying the obvious in such a hedgy way.
We know for sure ceph voters got town but none of them flipped yet so on what basis are you saying that some townies bought into that aside from the obvious?

[Bellaphant]

I don't understand your last section - do you believe the post restriction? Do you not think it's weird that it hasn't been penalised? I find it weird that no one thought it was worth asking about the penalty

[Dancing Puppets]

I tried to re-ISO Bella but couldn’t find that post but I’m pretty sure she made it - about her flipping her read on us three times that is.

I’m still not sure what to make of Math but T-Bone is looking better today. \_0_/