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I'm actually glad you shot JJH over Math b/c I prob would have been screaming and yelling that TPG was scum.

i dont rly have a lot to say that i didnt say in the mod thread at some point. i think the public cop was anti fun in a bunch of ways and it would be on the top of the chopping block if i were to go back in time & fix this setup (i would get rid of the one that happened to nbee + the ones from scum on nights 2 and 4) (i would also give hpjs way more incentive to try to execute the masons, i.e. they get 3 points if they execute any one of the three)

there weren't 6 masons. hpjs do not count towards parity

Well that was.. something

In post 8202, schadd_ wrote:i dont rly have a lot to say that i didnt say in the mod thread at some point. i think the public cop was anti fun in a bunch of ways and it would be on the top of the chopping block if i were to go back in time & fix this setup (i would get rid of the one that happened to nbee + the ones from scum on nights 2 and 4) (i would also give hpjs way more incentive to try to execute the masons, i.e. they get 3 points if they execute any one of the three)

there weren't 6 masons. hpjs do not count towards parity

Parity isn't the most important part of the game though, for town. Just the concept of having 6 pseudo-confirmed town is really strong.

Fun game! Definitely overwhelming in a number of ways. Thanks schadd_!

It was a big puzzle that needed to be figured out. Unfortunately for us the wrong sides pieced it together more quickly.

In post 8202, schadd_ wrote:i dont rly have a lot to say that i didnt say in the mod thread at some point. i think the public cop was anti fun in a bunch of ways and it would be on the top of the chopping block if i were to go back in time & fix this setup (i would get rid of the one that happened to nbee + the ones from scum on nights 2 and 4) (i would also give hpjs way more incentive to try to execute the masons, i.e. they get 3 points if they execute any one of the three)

there weren't 6 masons. hpjs do not count towards parity

I think changing win cons mid game should be commented on. Imho

The main reason Mastina died is the change on wincon midgame.

Otherwise another Townie gets shot and we sneakily win a Lylo that is unknown.

In post 8202, schadd_ wrote:i dont rly have a lot to say that i didnt say in the mod thread at some point. i think the public cop was anti fun in a bunch of ways and it would be on the top of the chopping block if i were to go back in time & fix this setup (i would get rid of the one that happened to nbee + the ones from scum on nights 2 and 4) (i would also give hpjs way more incentive to try to execute the masons, i.e. they get 3 points if they execute any one of the three)

there weren't 6 masons. hpjs do not count towards parity

Having them flip green then imho is kinda bastard tbh. If they don’t count for parity but flip green how?

win con change? what?

In post 8209, TheGoldenParadox wrote:win con change? what?

Yeah the exact wording of our wincon was “reach parity with town”
Schadd changed it midway through to be with “town aligned”

Was not thrilled.

Well that’s paraphrased,

So I kinda wanna give Schadd a chance to elaborate before I speak further.

our faction was not town/town aligned. You should have been shooting a50's faction.

it was a mistake in the wording

initially clarified it to what i had intended in the design, which was that health interns count as town for parity. later went back on it, i decided sticking to what i had communicated was better (and didn't violate the way anyone else had played the game) as well as being better for the game in general

i think you made perfectly correct kill choices up until then (i.e. nights 1-3 you took out the acting PRs, which is i think what you would have wanted) and then the mastina kill was surely not what you wanted but still not so bad in the grand scheme of things i think. you were also one mis-exec away from winning. again if i had a time machine i would go back and uh not clarify it for you in the way i did briefly. sorry

the way things played out with HPJS was odd. i think the biggest thing they had to offer in terms of town power was loudly telling everyone they were masons, which would have made things seem way more uphill to the wolves. in conception it didn't occur to me this would happen obviously, in fact the scenario where they all claimed almost right away seems odd and bad for the actual wincon (they get a lot of points by getting nightkilled, and why would you nightkill a claimed non-town 3p - i think they would have really struggled to get 4 points if not for the executions lining up perfectly like they did). also titus' reads were on fire

i picked the colors slightly ranodmly just because i didn't want what sort of alignment they were to be clear from the color (same goes for the naming of the alignments). hpjs ended up a sort of dark green, which i would say is evidently different from the town green (although it lights up a little bit on mafblack). the masons were a blue grey color

at the end of the day the setup was really just like trying to throw shade at what it means to be 3p and make for something that is theoretically a masonry that people have meaningful reason to distrust. i think, for instance, nothing i had ever said ruled out the interns + the society as one big anti-town faction that just didn't have kill power (a la jungle oligarchy). in concept it makes for a couple interesting day phases while everyone is piecing together / paranoid about what the story is with them, which i think happened a little bit. but i had a poor view as to how things would play out in the long term

sorry to everyone for how much of a grind the game ended up being after day 4 ish

none of Titus, Mastina orI have objected to our hood being released. So release it?

In post 8213, Nero Cain wrote:our faction was not town/town aligned. You should have been shooting a50's faction.

Now y’all can see why Mastina was killed

Yes those reasons were valid but I thought all 6 were town aligned 3P.

Give me til tomorrow please

In post 8216, MathBlade wrote:

In post 8213, Nero Cain wrote:our faction was not town/town aligned. You should have been shooting a50's faction.

Now y’all can see why Mastina was killed

Yes those reasons were valid but I thought all 6 were town aligned 3P.

I didn’t read up to mod confirmed A50 hood

So that’s kinda why I wanted it brought up but all y’all did a good job gg

In post 8213, Nero Cain wrote:our faction was not town/town aligned. You should have been shooting a50's faction.

You are not town, true.

But your faction's win condition is very pro-town. You have reason to actively scum-hunt, your abilities give you points by being used to find scum abilities, you have a much larger chance of surviving to end-game if you eliminate scum than if you wait for scum to win, etc. etc. etc.

ok so I like the concept of a third party that has to accumulate points in the abstract. I liked the olfs in the abstract, it just seemed like it was very disengaging for them. I don't like the HPJS, because they have a significant bearing on parity even though it's impossible to determine their motives. I correctly guessed that they had a point system and some of the things they scored points for were anti-town, but even then, they were a big enough force in the game that we just had to go along with whatever they were trying to do. Opposing them would have set the game at an impossible 8 enemies of town to eliminate. Okay fine that's evidence that they're not that anti-town, but it still didn't feel good.

As for the specific objectives, I liked the getting a mason executed one, I liked the tracker one, I liked the sacrifice one (sorta), I liked the D1 group one. I didn't like the wagon one, that seemed kinda arbitrary. Incentivizing getting NK'd would probably be okay if not for their other abilities pushing them toward claiming.

I really don't like how they don't count as alive for the scum wincon; in fact, it felt like the town role PM was borderline a lie because they could reach a situation where their wincon was perfectly achievable and yet they lost. With that many third-party players I think publicizing the scum wincon would have been fine. Also, the HPJS being able to win alone seems ridiculous, because that necessarily means they already won and chose to remain in the game just to screw everyone else over. Third parties that have already won/lost should always exit the game immediately imo.

The roles seemed mostly fine. Tracker appointer was nice, the disloyal inventor combined with friendly 3p's was cute, the kingmaker was nice.

The scum public info was a very nice mechanic, but it seemed like it wasn't very balanced (though the game was actually 13:5 instead of 19:5 which is kind of a nuts ratio).

Overall I feel like town should have been given more information about the conceit of the game, given that the majority of important things were things the town was literally never capable of knowing with any certainty-- the scum wincon, the interns being truly town-aligned, the powers of the society or the society's wincon. It made me feel, well, powerless, because all of the relevant details were things I had to trust people on, and all of the important events were taking place in secret.

I think that a point-based third party should probably be a single person, or else they should be a faction with confirmed information about them so town actually has an incentive to know when to trust them and when not to trust them. (April getting executed was a pretty big hit in terms of my trust of the society, because they very well could have had an objective to execute him-- pretty similar to the one they did have to execute an intern.)

gg. the setup was fun despite being pretty townsided. even with near perfect nightplay, and decent dayplay, we had little hope of actually winning. there were too many guaranteed deaths due to the public cop thing for us to have much chance. i think we did make some plays that made it difficult for us long-term though. thanks all for playing, and thanks schadd for modding.

no issues from me with PTs being released as is.

I was a player in this game.

gg have a good one.

In post 8220, DiamondSentinel wrote:

In post 8213, Nero Cain wrote:our faction was not town/town aligned. You should have been shooting a50's faction.

You are not town, true.

But your faction's win condition is very pro-town. You have reason to actively scum-hunt, your abilities give you points by being used to find scum abilities, you have a much larger chance of surviving to end-game if you eliminate scum than if you wait for scum to win, etc. etc. etc.

Yup.

Titus hood was town++ with a 3P label. No incentive to scumside
A50 hood was town by another name.
Then scum all vanilla.

Only way viable is King’s commander