mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[superbowl9]

Ggs yall it was fun and thanks schadd

[schadd_]

...

the idea of "we kind of just had to go with them" is interesting, and seemed resoundingly true - i thought it was hilarious that everyone was like stopping to make sure they got to do their votes just so they could fulfill their wincon. that and a lot of other problems boil down to, like, i just didnt think they would be out and about like they were

getting a mason executed could have been so fun. i agree wagon one wasn't very brilliant, i just wanted it to be more likely they would have somewhere to vote during the day (the idea with the points system to begin with is to give them reason to pay attn to all parts of the game so they aren't just totally bored like the olfs).

publishing a scum wincon would have sealed the game out as single-ball. i think it doesn't really harm the way you approach the game if you don't know how it's going to end - you still want to be executing scum whenever you can (even if it's a kind of feel bad outcome to not know how long you get). similar idea for the HPJS everyone-else-dies outcome; i think there's precedent in 3rd party games for them to make the game end (jester / mime setups do this sometimes i think). i guess i ought to have added a "but some things can cause you to lose" clause in the town wincon but everyone would get spooked by that

i guess my understanding of "winning" in mafia is that it is generally just better to win at more people's exclusion. like theres a basic thing which is that you are making other people's win/loss tracker worse relative to yours. and i wanted HPJS to be able to get the 3p scummy. lol.

in an ideal world the game is 15:5. but also in many worlds there was an even better invest on night 1, so yeah the info thing was like ass shit. not something i would really do again, at least as unsophisticatedly as i did here - just an intrusive thought i would have in MBOS setups quite often

there was ways to get confirmed info about HPJS via contracting, that just didn't ever get used (though honestly that's probably for the better, that was a whole can of worms that could have probably had some really nasty outcomes). i think having a single person faction in a large game just doesn't work, if they are a points system then they also become a survivor because they have to be alive to get their shit done (which is also really hard to do as a single person)

appreciate you naming parts of the setup you liked

[schadd_]

contracting

oh yeah let me just release the neighby: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84705

in short, HPJS could bind themselves to certain conditional actions

[schadd_]

it could kind of let them just confirm anything abt themselves if they wanted although it would be problematic for them to hold themselves to that standard since they might get expceted to like publish their whole wincon or make promises about being essentially town - i still think there would have been some bad game-health implications to it down the line which were ignored because i think it looked boring and complicated

[superbowl9]

Oh and regarding the whole controversy D1:

There were a lot of people saying a word that as a community we’ve agreed to try and phase out of our lingo. I’m not particularly gung-ho about it, but I do think that if someone in the game comes out and tells you it’s hurtful to them and others and to please top using it, that’s something that should be respected. Look even a few posts ago, Nero you use the word unnecessarily to describe the very situation in which someone asked you to please not use it.

Again it’s the internet, and it’s not against site rules to use the word so “grow thicker skin” is valid for now, but it’s just common decency fo try to make a positive environment for everyone isn’t it? I totally get those who are used to using the word, just check my join date. I don’t like being the L-word police either. It’s just a matter of trying to make the game fun to play for everyone.

That aside, I think we need to recognize what is a part of the game and what’s not. If the mod or a user makes an announcement to address any non-gameplay issue, whether it be harrassment, language, etc. that’s not something we should be scrutinizing in a game context. To accuse a player who’s trying to stop the use of what can be hateful or offensive language of simply trying to gain an in-game advantage is in my opinion not okay. This is the same mindset that causes you to think schadd is “mod-confirming” someone as town for reinforcing that harmful language is not okay - you’re not realizing that some things are larger than and outside the scope of gameplay. Same for those who claimed the replaces were scum for replacing (false) - it’s just a continuation of that mindset.

Just my 2 cents, but I really think it’s poor form to drag someone’s good-faith request to not say hurtful things into gameplay context.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sorry if i spammed too much lol.

[Nero Cain]

you didn't spam enuff! Didn't even break 600 posts pfff!

[samantha97]

To accuse a player who’s trying to stop the use of what can be hateful or offensive language of simply trying to gain an in-game advantage is in my opinion not okay. This is the same mindset that causes you to think schadd is “mod-confirming” someone as town for reinforcing that harmful language is not okay - you’re not realizing that some things are larger than and outside the scope of gameplay. Same for those who claimed the replaces were scum for replacing (false) - it’s just a continuation of that mindset.

Just my 2 cents, but I really think it’s poor form to drag someone’s good-faith request to not say hurtful things into gameplay context.

1. This is mafia, you don't know what is for in-game advantage or not. The fact that they posted it inside a mafia thread, instead of expressing something to the moderator privately, leaves the door wide open for it to have been part of their posting strategy. Especially because they never once posted about the game itself.

2. The language is objectively unharmful and inoffensive. It's been used countless times and no one here is truly offended by it. The only harm done was by the people pretending to be offended by it, as that had a casualty (EchoVision).

3. None of that even matters, because it should have been a policy before the game started, not mid-game.

[Menalque]

there weren't 6 masons.

Called it

[Menalque]

Thanks for modding schadd_, GGs all

[Menalque]

:O: @Mena's reads in the dead thread. Aside from MM, we did everything you said we should, and that's probably why it took us so long to win.

(Seriously though, this probably means the people you were SRing were playing sub-optimally, and it makes me feel better about nuking ddl)

Thanks A50!

Yeah, I was just so convinced that MM was scum for lying about how D1 and the gamma wagon went down I guess as BM was town he genuinely did think what he was saying? But it just seemed like a totally warped perception of reality to me at the time (and still sorta does)

I was also lowkey trying to front a PR there to fuck with scum

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don’t listen to the haters Nero Cain. Ur awesome.

[superbowl9]

1. This is mafia, you don't know what is for in-game advantage or not. The fact that they posted it inside a mafia thread, instead of expressing something to the moderator privately, leaves the door wide open for it to have been part of their posting strategy. Especially because they never once posted about the game itself.

2. The language is objectively unharmful and inoffensive. It's been used countless times and no one here is truly offended by it. The only harm done was by the people pretending to be offended by it, as that had a casualty (EchoVision).

3. None of that even matters, because it should have been a policy before the game started, not mid-game.

1. This is exactly what I think you need to reevaluate. If someone writes a post telling another user that they’re making them uncomfortable because of harassment, should we be analyzing that for the sake of the game? If a user says that their mom just passed away, should we shed doubt on that because they could be using a strategy? This is just a game and we have things that are more important to us than playing.

2. The word is clearly harmful to some people. You might not have a reaction to it but at this point it even pops out of the screen at me a little, now that I’ve really thought about the connotations of the word. Please don’t speak for the experience of others, you grandparents may not have lived in the jim crow south and been threatened by real life lynchings but others users may have that experience.

3. This we can agree on, and if you wanted to replace out because the rules changed midgame i really have no issue with that. You have every right to like using the word if you want, it’s not site policy. It just doesn’t make it any less insensitive.

[MathBlade]

Sorry if i spammed too much lol.

You didn’t.

Good catch on the tone. It was right when my wincon changed. I thought you or Bell traitor cause of it.

Like the fact 3P more informed than group scum is kinda wtf.

If I knew 3P claiming wasn’t an option instead of just no scum win con I just do town doc claim. Then not Suicide being stubborn *sigh*

[MathBlade]

1. This is mafia, you don't know what is for in-game advantage or not. The fact that they posted it inside a mafia thread, instead of expressing something to the moderator privately, leaves the door wide open for it to have been part of their posting strategy. Especially because they never once posted about the game itself.

2. The language is objectively unharmful and inoffensive. It's been used countless times and no one here is truly offended by it. The only harm done was by the people pretending to be offended by it, as that had a casualty (EchoVision).

3. None of that even matters, because it should have been a policy before the game started, not mid-game.

1. This is exactly what I think you need to reevaluate. If someone writes a post telling another user that they’re making them uncomfortable because of harassment, should we be analyzing that for the sake of the game? If a user says that their mom just passed away, should we shed doubt on that because they could be using a strategy? This is just a game and we have things that are more important to us than playing.

2. The word is clearly harmful to some people. You might not have a reaction to it but at this point it even pops out of the screen at me a little, now that I’ve really thought about the connotations of the word. Please don’t speak for the experience of others, you grandparents may not have lived in the jim crow south and been threatened by real life lynchings but others users may have that experience.

3. This we can agree on, and if you wanted to replace out because the rules changed midgame i really have no issue with that. You have every right to like using the word if you want, it’s not site policy. It just doesn’t make it any less insensitive.

I debated subbing out when my wincon changed then decided against it and tough it out and use it to figure out more tools to add to my toolbox. When games are likely unwinnable I try everything to learn how to do it better. Eg as town or scum I almost never fake claim. Time to practice that.

[MathBlade]

gg. the setup was fun despite being pretty townsided. even with near perfect nightplay, and decent dayplay, we had little hope of actually winning. there were too many guaranteed deaths due to the public cop thing for us to have much chance. i think we did make some plays that made it difficult for us long-term though. thanks all for playing, and thanks schadd for modding.

no issues from me with PTs being released as is.

Slept on it and I am okay with hood being released.

The jjh shot was really freakin epic. Well done again.

Gg all

[Titus]

Tbh, you would have been better off taking Bell's approach and not fakeclaiming here but just stubbornly not suiciding. It would have been better to paint suiciding as which mouse puts the bell on the cat scenario (no pun intended). There was no fake claim that really worked.

If you stuck with town, you couldn't be anti suicide (see above for your best move).

If you claimed 3p, there were a litany of posts to grill you with. I was just starting to when you cracked and conceded.

[Titus]

Plus, with 3p, any suicide outed your claim as false.

[MathBlade]

Tbh, you would have been better off taking Bell's approach and not fakeclaiming here but just stubbornly not suiciding. It would have been better to paint suiciding as which mouse puts the bell on the cat scenario (no pun intended). There was no fake claim that really worked.

If you stuck with town, you couldn't be anti suicide (see above for your best move).

If you claimed 3p, there were a litany of posts to grill you with. I was just starting to when you cracked and conceded.

Yeah.

Knowing what I know now that was best.

I literally didn’t know anything about the setup though.

So I made a gamble to stop you from hooding Chemist and it failed.

It was also when I thought A50’s hood was siding with us. If he wasn’t it wouldn’t really matter as I lacked enough Charisma bank to win against Bell.

I really needed Bell to be in the hood and not Suicide.

The fact he fake claimed traitor when it wasn’t possible fucked me.

[MathBlade]

Once our wincon changed midgame I got really salty and demoralized. I set up my plays towards a wincon and emotional bank that way. It is difficult nigh on impossible to switch. I plant suggestions that are supposed to take fruit hours or days later. It’s super difficult to just change it.

[MathBlade]

That’s why you can’t ever change a win con mid game even if it’s the world’s biggest oopsie

[MathBlade]

:O: @Mena's reads in the dead thread. Aside from MM, we did everything you said we should, and that's probably why it took us so long to win.

(Seriously though, this probably means the people you were SRing were playing sub-optimally, and it makes me feel better about nuking ddl)

Thanks A50!

Yeah, I was just so convinced that MM was scum for lying about how D1 and the gamma wagon went down I guess as BM was town he genuinely did think what he was saying? But it just seemed like a totally warped perception of reality to me at the time (and still sorta does)

I was also lowkey trying to front a PR there to fuck with scum

You were shot because Gamma said to in thread.

I read up to there iirc.

I forget if any other reasons existed.

[Nero Cain]

Your wincon didn't really change. Schadd just did a poor job wording it and then clarified. Or maybe it did change and that was just an excuse. Though I believe the former b/c I felt like some of our wording was a lil' meh and in the future, Schadd should try to catch himself.

[MathBlade]

Your wincon didn't really change. Schadd just did a poor job wording it and then clarified. Or maybe it did change and that was just an excuse. Though I believe the former b/c I felt like some of our wording was a lil' meh and in the future, Schadd should try to catch himself.

No. The wincon said parity with town.

This means no 3P masons or Titus hood. They were not town.

Wincons are extremely literal. I wish there was an edit history.

[Nero Cain]

it was really frustrating how scummy Math was and his replies to me. I feel much better knowing that he was scum instead of town.