Mafiascum.net

Quilford, Zang would have no reason to counterclaim me, when I'm being VI-ish and faking a guilty on MoI. He wouldn't do that as scum to save a scum MoI partner and he certainly wouldn't do it as scum if me on MoI was town on town. Sometimes events happen in the game that make you go "ohhhhh.... " and make you feel stupid for your reads his claim was one of those moments. That combined with your terribad miller claim = *light bulb moment*. Its cool though, honestly Quilford, now you are saying "town just don't do that". That being changing one's mind on reads. Anyone with half a brain can see how retarded that sounds.

I'm a bit embarrassed with my play this game so I know I don't have the right to ask anyone for anything at this point, but I am interested to see what implosion and MoI have to say about my admission here. If anyone has a chance to save this terrible day from a terrible ending it would be one of them.

Reposting this so implosion/MoI anyone else who wants to think a bit can try and understand my fail: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3357896

Quilford, mafia goon, that good sir is my tldr ^

I don't know. I hope not.
And I have secret reasons as to why the paper should come to me, which shall be revealed at a later date.

PEDIT: How do you know his role?

Quilford, you should take a hint from your buddy SK here. Completely ignore what I've written and hope town doesn't read it.

Long posts are long and tired SKrew is tired.

Scumhunter wrote:Quilford, Zang would have no reason to counterclaim me, when I'm being VI-ish and faking a guilty on MoI. He wouldn't do that as scum to save a scum MoI partner and he certainly wouldn't do it as scum if me on MoI was town on town.

He thought you and MoI was scum on town respectively, as is evidenced by his reads list. But you exclude that possibility for no good reason.

He would do that as town to save a town MoI.

Scumhunter wrote:That being changing one's mind on reads. Anyone with half a brain can see how retarded that sounds.

Anyone with half a brain can see how much of an that is.

Yes Quilford, he would do that as town, aka the town cop, aka having a real report, aka a guilty on you, the scum. That just proves my point as to why I should have immediately believed him don't you think?

Scumhunter wrote:Yes Quilford, he would do that as town, aka the town cop, aka having a real report, aka a guilty on you, the

scum

miller. That just proves my point as to why I should have immediately believed him don't you think?

How does it do that at all?

We kill quilford. THE SCUM.

Then we focus on Scumhunter. The probable scum.

Hi there folk!

ML replacing in here. I've only read about the first 5 pages so far.. and I haven't read anything on the recent pages at all yet, so bare with me while I adjust into this!

Lain, give me your important US document tonight.
vezok, shut up pweez :3

That was incredibly anti-town and scummy of scumhunter.

It shouldnt change anything though. We either kill scumhunter or quilford today and the other tonight.

I would prrefer scumhunter today because of his fakeclaim and just in case Quilford has papers that he is willing to pass on.

Quick check in, still having some issues with internet. Been trying to follow on my phone.

Since I have suspected Quil as scum since day 1. And now with a cop guilty on him, I fully support his execution, and fully support Zang as executioner. I don't buy Quil saying he is miller, a miller would claim day 1 and not blow it out their ass only when their is a cop guilty.

Currently, we see no reason to deviate from our plan.

We believe Scumhunter's new claim is just another part of the gambit.

Let us compare this statement of his:

Scumhunter wrote:I was so convinced that MoI was scum earlier and leading the town to slaughter that I thought something

had

to be done if we had any chance to win.

with his earlier statement:

Scumhunter wrote:
I'm not pushing for a MoI execution today, mainly because its possible he is town and will be useful as the game goes on (and also I doubt anyone but me would have the balls to make that execution today if given the power). That being said I think we would all be wise to strongly consider the fact that MoI is scum. There are far better execution options [Jason, SK, Zang] for today though.

This was his last read on MoI before the fakeclaim, so if he somehow was totally convinced MoI is scum and needs to be executed now, he never stated any reason why MoI went from "he is possible scum, but I don't want him executed now, there are three players I'd rather see executed" to "he is TOTALLY scum, EXECUTE HIM NOW!"

That isn't town play, pure and simple.

Zang wrote:That was incredibly anti-town and scummy of scumhunter.

It shouldnt change anything though. We either kill scumhunter or quilford today and the other tonight.

I would prrefer scumhunter today because of his fakeclaim and just in case Quilford has papers that he is willing to pass on.

I won't argue that my acttions weren't anti-town or scummy. Both of those things are correct. Anti-town and scummy is not going to get you a scum flip in this scenario unfortunately.

I'm slightly paranoid these "papers" are a way to influence day-vote dynamics and I think it could really be a bad thing if I'm executed and scum get control of the night kill...

Go Quilford first, give me a chance to redeem myself please, at least for this phase.

Cosca, its not town play, but sadly my play is coming from a town slot this game.

My play was irrational and an emotional reaction to MoI's strong fos on me, which I didn't think he would have on me if he were town. I'm not saying my play makes any rational sense because it clearly was stupid. That doesn't make me scum though.

papers are most likely not pro-scum. Also, just because I ahve a guilty on him doesnt mean hes 100% scum. He could be a miller, its just not worth the chance to keep him alive.

Also, what would you do to reddeem yourself?

Town, please review who is insistent on executing me over Quilford even if they "say" they are fine with either of us dying today.

The scum-motivation for that will be blatant once I flip town.

Scumhunter wrote:Town, please review who is insistent on executing me over Quilford even if they "say" they are fine with either of us dying today.

The scum-motivation for that will be blatant once I flip town.

I would rather execute Quil today, and go from there based on evedience.

Zang wrote:papers are most likely not pro-scum. Also, just because I ahve a guilty on him doesnt mean hes 100% scum. He could be a miller, its just not worth the chance to keep him alive.

Also, what would you do to reddeem yourself?

Yea, but I'm scum. Even if I have been MVP of the scum win-condition to this point.

As for how to redeem myself, I don't know...become more and more obvious town as the game goes on and catch scum I guess? If you've got any other ideas lemme know.

SleepyKrew wrote:

SleepyKrew wrote:You know what's funny? I was planning on faking guilties on Cosca and Scumhunter. lol

What is even remotely pro town about this?

Oh and "papers" would seem to me that they suggest being some sort of item that is beneficial for a player to have? Perhaps the ability to vote in a certain scenario regardless of alignment? Or at least that's what I'm worried about.

Ok … given that Scumhunter has now claimed his whole claim was a gambit I think I’ sticking with my Zang as Executioner. He can decide for the Day who should be killed … Scumhunter or Quilford.

--

Tragedy wrote:SK, stop buddying sucking up on MoI, even if you're on a Votin' Block with 'em.

Why aren’t you telling Scumhunter to stop sucking up to you in the same breath?

--

Sleepy wrote:Were you paying attention at all during the paper fiasco D1?
Yes, I'm talking important US documents.
DO NOT EXECUTE QUILFORD TODAY
We can kill him at night. But he needs to transfer his paper over to me.

– did you or CC ever directly mention the phrase ‘important US documents’ before Quilford did? I don’t have time to dig through both your ISOs now. If you could look this up I think it goes a long way to deciding whether he is fake-claiming the papers if you did.

Sleepy wrote:Okay, so Quilford can't be Executed today or tonight. He's tomorrow kill no matter what.

WTF is this? Explain what changed form "He can hand me the papers and die at Night" to "He has to live through the Night"?

--

Scumhunter wrote:Tragedy, I'm town. Please believe me. I wouldn't lie to you. Maybe to these asshats, but not to you

I'm serious! I know you can't believe me now just on that but -_______-

Why wouldn’t you lie to someone if you were scum about your alignment?

You know calling the people you are appealing to believe that you aren't scum Asshats isn't very smart.
More buddying noted.

Scumhunter wrote:I'm a VT.

This is all I’m quoting from 809. It’s a long winded post filled with AtE and explanations that should have been obvious to you before you claimed the fake-guilty if you are Town.

– would you have retraced the claim if Zang had not followed through with his full counter-claim on you?

--

Quilford wrote:This is why I did not claim miller.

I glanced at these links.

1. Using a thread championed by ReaperCharlie doesn’t make your stance more believable, IMO. It makes it much, much less.
2. I’m not reading a whole game - please summarize why that game means claiming Miller immediately is bad.

--

Cosca wrote:You ignore our arguments and just go "Cosca is scum", or rather, "so scummy it hurts".

No, I don’t. I’ve done plenty of explaining why your actions are scummy. Which you yourself ignore.

Cosca wrote:That's not a "clarification", that's a contradiction.

No, it’s a clarification. We can go round and round like this all day … stating things that you can’t back up doesn’t make them true. I typed up my response to Scumhunter's fake-claim in two minutes as that time of night I don't have the ability to make detailed posts. I don't particularly care whether you believe me since your play is pretty much scum-tunneling.

Cosca wrote:Let's view this from town-MoI perspective.
Town-MoI is confirmed town to himself. That means Scumhunter can't be a sane cop, he's either a cop, but insane or paranoid, or scum. Since Scumhunter behaved scummy since his fakeclaim, the latter possibility is much more likely.

Therefore, to let Scumhunter be scum, town-MoI must assume the following:
- Scumhunter, who is very scummy, is in fact scum.

To let Quilford be scum, town-MoI must assume the following:
- Zang, who appeared generally towny, is in fact town.
- Zang is a sane cop.
- Quilford, who was town to neutral, is scum.
- Quilford's power role claim is fake.

Now let's view this from scum-MoI perspective.
Scumhunter executed an intentionally bad fakeclaim and fake-guilty on MoI for town cred. MoI was willing to sacrifice a scumbuddy; but as soon as another opportunity came along,

he immediately preferred the other execution to try to let his scumbuddy live through one more night, trying to snipe the night executor.

I'm sure you all can see in which of the two situations a Quilford execution makes more sense than a Scumhunter execution.

So you’ve basically filtered everything through a perspective of “MoI is scum to construct this”. Noted.

But let’s adderss the specifics.

For Quilford to be scum, Town MoI has to assume that

Zang is Town – That’s my read. Are you saying this is scummy?
Zang is a sane cop – Why is the word Sane involved here? One regular, sane cop is much more reasonable to expect than multiple cops with varying sanities. Zang is a Town read, Scumhunter was 100% lying from my POV (oh look, he's now admitted that). Thus I believe his claim. Are you saying this assumption is scummy?
Quilford is scum – He claimed Miller in response to a guilty claim. That’s scum play. Are you saying this assumption is scummy?
Quilford’s Power role claim is fake – So scum don’t have Power role? We’ve had TONS of claims when I posted – CC, Sleepy, Zang, Scumhunter, Having (confirmed). And that doesn’t include others who may or may not have claimed. Are you saying it’s scummy not to believe Quiford based on his Miller claim?

I’m really curious which of these you’d like to debate.

As to your ‘scum-perspective’ I’ve bolded the part that is shows you aren’t being objective. Every bit of it MUST be premised on the fact that I am scum. That bolded argument can be applied to anyone who had a preference between the two 'cop' results (one of which was obviously fake), including yourself

Cosca wrote:

Sometimes, Quilford is the only acceptable execution

; sometimes, Quilford is preferred, sometimes, you'd only be willing to go along with his execution if more players agree. You even managed to contradict yourself in one post.

The bolded is a pure, unadulterated lie.

Please directly quote the post where I say Quilford is the ONLY acceptable execution. Do it. You can’t. I never use that phrase. Nice attempt to infer a contradiction that doesn’t exist.

MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Question

would you have retracted the claim if Zang had not followed through with his full counter-claim on you?

If I was elected executioner and having 2nd thoughts on you needing to die, then yes, probably.

As for my wall being a bunch of aTe: sure.

As for me should have knowing better: sure.

Neither of those things make me scum and if you look at my actions from a town perspective and if you think I have even half a brain I think you would see how my play reeks of desperation. But that desperation was to stop you from running the town when I thought you were unstoppable scum at worse and severely misguided town at best from my pov at the time...

Scum play = cold, calculated, and with a clear intent and expectation for success.

My point still stands that I wouldn't fake a guilty on MoI here as scum. I did it because I thought it was literally the only thing I could do to stop MoI from raping the town here as scum. That fear was legitimate. I am competitive. I made a rash decision that I now regret.