Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

I read 819 as little more than an attempt to puff up FoN's "defense by reputation". All of us that have been playing for a while know it exists; some people are simply able to stare down attempts to lynch them, even if it's for solid reasons. 819 contributes nothing, and uses intimidating comparisons as a way to bull past the accusations without engaging them. The very name "Force of Nature" is also a form of this, just like I thought your (Nacho) old avatar of Kennedy was a subtextual implication of honesty.

Hold on a second here. "Defense by reputation"? Are you saying Llamarble, seeing that he was going to get lynched for whatever reason, decided to grab me from the QuickTopic, have me come in here and flaunt my name for a bit, and that it was somehow going to make Force of Nature less likely to be lynched? I'm flattered! But no. Let me point you to two facts here: 1) my post had no content, and 2) my post contained nothing that would stop anyone on the wagon from lynching us apart from a quip, "Let me catch up privately and then you guys can do whatever you want." In other words, no quicklynching because if I want to feed you louts some WIFOM, I will damn well feed you WIFOM. You even acknowledge my post had no content! What candies did you get while trick-or-treating? I want me some of that.

Other than that, hats off to your excellent troll, good sir. I hope we will have this opportunity again when I'm not hijacking somebody else's game.

[Force of Nature]

I read 819 as little more than an attempt to puff up FoN's "defense by reputation". All of us that have been playing for a while know it exists; some people are simply able to stare down attempts to lynch them, even if it's for solid reasons. 819 contributes nothing, and uses intimidating comparisons as a way to bull past the accusations without engaging them. The very name "Force of Nature" is also a form of this, just like I thought your (Nacho) old avatar of Kennedy was a subtextual implication of honesty.

LOL. You just reminded me of the

GIGANTIC

walls I made yelling at Parama in my newbie game for using wording to make people believe his points more than they would simply on logical merit. Reck modded that game, actually. No wonder he thinks I'm bad... (first impressions etc)

Also, I don't think my reputation is doing me any favors this game.
Half the votes on me are because of who I am / my posting style anyway.

Anyways, I am happy to engage with whatever accusations.
But out of what's been posted so far what the hell am I supposed to engage with?
Yates has pretty much just voted me entirely for voting him and calls my posting quality low. Maybe someday he'll make an actual accusation.
I called Reck out for calling me scum repeatedly with no actual complaint about my content and he admitted that was the case.
He hasn't added anything since then except a vote on me and a couple pathetic mudslings that I've already answered.
(Reck I think you're better at mafia than me but 765, 769, and 798 are shitposts)
I guess he mentioned he didn't like me rethinking Pinescum when Pine claimed VT and failed to vote his own CW; I don't know what about that bothered him.
You called me town most of D1 then made one or two posts saying "FoN is becoming scummy as hell let's line up his lynch for D2."
You made factually incorrect 779 and voted me. I addressed that already.
Soda actually made a post accusing me of something. I guess I'll talk about that.

But my main concern is FoN atm, because he said that the Pine wagon was more town driven. I know it was possible for Triangle to have been bussed, but uh, I think he could have tried to make his buddy look good by getting an easy possible mislynch in. His d1 playstyle was also really weird, I've played with him before and I don't know, he was more 'serious'. Of course maybe that was cause he was basically confirmed town in the game we played in but I really don't know. I think our lynch should be between Pine and FoN so.
VOTE: FoN

I said the Pine wagon was more town driven because I felt it was more town driven. Had I actually been Triangle's buddy I imagine I'd have made much more of an effort to convince Implosion to vote Pine instead of staying stuff like 'actually Triangle lynch is pretty good too the wagon just bothers me' or whatever it was. Or I'd simply have voted Triangle; groundwork would obviously have been there.
As for the serious thing, I've been serious this game too, so I'm not sure what you mean.
Do you mean the whole "I'm a blizzard" theme? That's because this is a new hydra I'm excited about.


Nobody actually cares whether your lynch makes logical sense though or whether you answer every accusation or whatnot.
The way to get people not to lynch you is by showing them who is actually scum.
SO PREPARE FOR THE GUIDED TOUR YOU DUCKS.

[Force of Nature]

Equi and I didn't coordinate at all on those last few posts, so apologies if they flow weirdly. Heh.
Also that guided tour will be happening tomorrow because it's absurd Oclock.

[Pine]

Perhaps my "defense by reputation" post was poorly phrased. Neither Equinox nor Llamarble carry sufficient reputation, on their own, to merit such weight. I'm talking about the really big names on these boards, like Fate, DGB, Reck, and so forth. Fate in particular springs to mind when I think about the concept.

You people, with this new hydra composed of a somewhat-nebulous team of moderate heavyweights, is attempting to create, out of whole cloth, an intimidating reputation. So perhaps "Defense by intimidation" is a better term for it.

And don't be flattered. It isn't working regardless of what I call it.

[Pine]

By the way, Equinox, when I decide to troll you, I won't unintentionally pseudo-compliment you and actually provide content towards a case against you!

I'll just mock you and call you inventively filthy names. You fruit-felching jackanape.

[Force of Nature]

You're being stupid.
Sure I use force of personality to help make who I want to lynch get lynched. This is very good for my win percentage. Most good players do this.
That doesn't mean I'm deflecting / ignoring legitimate accusations or any such nonsense.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING ME HAVE, BY AND LARGE, SAID

JACK SHIT

ABOUT ANYTHING IN MY 150 POSTS OF CONTENT THAT SEEMS LIKELY TO HAVE COME FROM SCUM. AND WHAT LITTLE THEY HAVE SAID IS COMPLETE GARBAGE.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

You people, with this new hydra composed of a somewhat-nebulous team of moderate heavyweights, is attempting to create, out of whole cloth, an intimidating reputation. So perhaps "Defense by intimidation" is a better term for it.

Let me get this straight. You're accusing us of making a hydra name and using intrahydra nicknames that sound intimidating to somehow lessen our chances of getting lynched wherever this hydra plays, and this is somehow relevant to our position, and apparently your case, in this game.

Please return and reread posts 821 and 828 when you're sober.

[Force of Nature]

I shouldn't have said you're being stupid, but you are misguided to a degree that is annoying me into insulting you.
I do respect you even if I think it's ridiculous you don't believe in trying to figure out who the wine is in front of.

[Pine]

150 posts of content? Most of that is jumping from vote to vote without really digging deep into those suspicions, augmented by fluffy chest-beating and doing what you can to discredit your detractors (see 830). Take your late D1 charge against me, for example. You did jack all to really advance a case against me, and as soon as suspicion was thrown your way and evidence really started to mount that I was the scum-driven counterwagon, you jumped off and decided you were just kidding. That's happened with practically every one of your aborted wagons. In fact, most of the flash wagons that have been started and abandoned have been inspired by you.

I'm quite awake and sober, and using subtle cues against your opponents in a game that is largely based on social acumen and wit is an old, old trick. Again, Nacho's old avatar is a ready example. He used an inspirational head shot of Kennedy, a man who almost everyone has at least a reasonably positive image of. It immediately evokes a sense of trust, especially in Americans, especially young Americans, who comprise the vast majority of this site's player base. And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

[Force of Nature]

(Equinox)

I'm done hijacking the thread, since I have some reading of it to do. However, this is something only I can answer, so here we are.

And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

Since you've never played with me before, I'll give you a hint: That is my own brand of rhetoric, and you'll see it in any game of mine you read. If I wanted to drive people off our wagon, I would be a lot less subtle about it, and I am by no means incapable of building a case against our lynch or against any of the people on the wagon. I don't run by making people "subconsciously" decide to not lynch me. I do it by making them think through it logically and then consciously making the decision. Logic is what sticks solid in people's minds, not some gut twinge triggered by subliminal messages; gut is too fluid for that to be effective in the long-term.

"All of that is WIFOM!" you may say. Well, don't say I didn't warn you.

But you can think what you think, and I'll just berate your silliness in the post-game or in the graveyard when things like win conditions don't get in the way of a good argument. In the meantime, I need to get a head start on Llamarble before he wakes up, since I've just now broken my promise to stop spamming his game.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm quite awake and sober, and using subtle cues against your opponents in a game that is largely based on social acumen and wit is an old, old trick. Again, Nacho's old avatar is a ready example. He used an inspirational head shot of Kennedy, a man who almost everyone has at least a reasonably positive image of. It immediately evokes a sense of trust, especially in Americans, especially young Americans, who comprise the vast majority of this site's player base. And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

But see, my old avatar wasn't purely a scum tactic. It was a tactic, yes, but it wasn't a scum tactic. Having a voice of authority is just as good for a town player as it is for a scum player. The tactic Equinox used has a similar idea, but that doesn't mean it's a scum tactic.

Also, FoN is town. Let the wagon disappear and divert to Uphill scum.

[Pine]

In

this situation

it's a scum tactic. Throwing your weight (or perceived weight) around when you're trying to push a wagon you believe in is a Town tactic. Trying to stare down a wagon forming on you when they have legitimate concerns is scummy. Same tactic, different situations, different motivations.

[Nachomamma8]

In

this situation

it's a scum tactic. Throwing your weight (or perceived weight) around when you're trying to push a wagon you believe in is a Town tactic. Trying to stare down a wagon forming on you when they have legitimate concerns is scummy. Same tactic, different situations, different motivations.

But the problem is that 3/4 people DON'T have tangible concerns.

[Yates]

My Town reads:

Nachomamma: He gets me. <3 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3562385 That is a 100% accurate read on me and his "EpicMafia tendencies" are an excellent insight. I probably won't change my posting for this game but I'm keeping notes on how more effective players are able to make regular contributions rather than 1 or 2 time data dumps.

Reck: Was almost the hammer vote on Triangle and gave the Triangle wagon the final bit of traction needed to get the scum lynched.

Grimmjow: Has been one of my earliest town reads. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3531608

Implosion: RIP. Was another of my earliest town reads as noted in the link above.

Pine: Has worked his way up from "iffy" to town based less on his play and more on the mechanics of how the Pine vs Triangle wagons went down. It's too early in the game for a double-bus. The fact that Triangle turned scum means to me that Pine is Town. Simple logic.


My Scum Reads:

FoN: Post 714 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3555033 best summarizes my frustration with FoN. FoN posts a lot and throws accusations around willy nilly seeing what sticks. When I search for true content reads on FoN? I find stuff like this post http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3555086 where FoN actively reminds a now-confirmed scum how to save her own scummy butt. HUGE red flag. Also, as you see from post 697, http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3554328 FoN was the vote that balanced the wagons between Triangle and Pine. Last ditch effort to save his scum sister? I believe so.

SleepyKrew: Let's face it, Sleepy looks bad for starting and staunchly arguing for the counter-wagon. It's as simple as that. I could always pile on with more links like this one http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3554775 or this one http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3555203 showing how hard SKrew tries to discredit anyone on the Triangle wagon [the RIGHT wagon] but these are reasons enough. Ok, ONE more reason - SKrew and WeirdAlex are the only two that never left the Pine counter wagon. I mean - NEVER. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3562252

WeirdAlex: In post 739 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3556019 he claims "I'll hammer Triangle after school today." Then he never voted during the following 7 hours. It's

possible

the implosion hammer [3 votes later] came too soon for little Alex who was hard at work studying reading, writing, and 'rythmatic. The fact that Triangle was scum, however, makes it look more like WeirdAlex didn't want to hammer his scum buddy and was hoping someone else would jump on what was a relatively strong Pine wagon. Finally, as stated above, SKrew and WeirdAlex are the only two that never left the Pine counter wagon.



@Nacho - FoN posts like these http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3566180 [and any number of other posts - pick one] are simple fluff. One recognized scum tactic is to post enough fluff that LOOKS like content while serving no real purpose other than to confuse. That's where "FoN is doing a really bad job of trying to obfuscate obvious Town voting. At this point his antics have moved from being mildly irritating to flat out forum fecal discharge. " comes from. To me, it's clear as day.

[Force of Nature]

In

this situation

it's a scum tactic. Throwing your weight (or perceived weight) around when you're trying to push a wagon you believe in is a Town tactic. Trying to stare down a wagon forming on you when they have legitimate concerns is scummy. Same tactic, different situations, different motivations.

This is just ridiculous.
I am going to do everything in my power not to get lynched because getting lynched is absolutely the worst thing you can do as town.
This includes baring my thoughts / emotions, using my reputation as a player who is good to keep around, pure browbeating, or anything else within the game rules.

[Force of Nature]

150 posts of content? Most of that is jumping from vote to vote without really digging deep into those suspicions, augmented by fluffy chest-beating and doing what you can to discredit your detractors (see 830). Take your late D1 charge against me, for example. You did jack all to really advance a case against me, and as soon as suspicion was thrown your way and evidence really started to mount that I was the scum-driven counterwagon, you jumped off and decided you were just kidding. That's happened with practically every one of your aborted wagons. In fact, most of the flash wagons that have been started and abandoned have been inspired by you.

I'm quite awake and sober, and using subtle cues against your opponents in a game that is largely based on social acumen and wit is an old, old trick. Again, Nacho's old avatar is a ready example. He used an inspirational head shot of Kennedy, a man who almost everyone has at least a reasonably positive image of. It immediately evokes a sense of trust, especially in Americans, especially young Americans, who comprise the vast majority of this site's player base. And when the going got tough, you puffed up that subconscious image with gems such as "As much as I fancy the idea of watching which scum chickens will relish the idea of lynching a FORCE OF NATURE -- lynching a blizzard is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, folks..." It's a purely scum tactic.

This sounds like you think Nacho's AVATAR was a scumtell.
I DID JACK ALL TO ADVANCE A CASE AGAINST YOU? WUT.
Yes, I repeatedly rethought and went back and forth. AND AS I DID THAT A LOT OF THE TIME I SAID WHAT MY MOTIVES WERE.

[Force of Nature]

Also 535 makes me want to go back to voting Pine.
It's really hard for scum to resist "you have a townread on town for a bad reason; they should still be eligible for scumconsideration but I'm not going to push on them right now."
There are so many little things in Pine's posting that just give me a feeling he'll flip scum.
I kind of want to think about this more.
UNVOTE:
QUOTE STRIPIN' TIME.

Heh, Force of Nature can be Town,

at least for D1.

Careless attitude right out of the box makes me think "this person is not concerned about how people think of him (them?)", ergo Town.

Scum have a kind of urge to constantly qualify statements.
It's obvious a page 2 read isn't engraved in blood, so qualification is totally unnecessary here.

CONTRADICTIONS AND ATEEEEEEEEEEE
MY FAVS

ATE was my first thought too. Soda's reacting really scummy to this wagon.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Okay, pine apparently sees SK as on a similar wavelength to his own.

I'm hearing you on it, I just like Soda better for now.

PE: SK is either scum or really off his game this thread. Reck's right.

SK's voting THE SAME PERSON Pine is voting. People helping me lynch scum just aren't having bad games.
Also this is part of a bunch of Sleepy / Triangle / Yates attacking that goes on while Pine's vote sits happily parked on Soda:

Yates would be so much less scummy if his last couple of posts didn't have hyphens.

I agree. The hyphens are meant to convey pauses in thought, and they seem highly contrived and artificial. I missed that the first time through, thanks for pointing it out.

Pine. Please just answer this with a yes or no. Do. I. Play. Well. As. Town?

Not going to let this go, are you? It isn't a yes/no question, and phrasing irrelevant subjective questions in a black or white context is a classic scum tactic to then go "Aha!" The answer is that I believe you are capable of playing Town well, and I believe you are capable of playing Town poorly. In this case, I feel you are playing scum. Poorly.

Again, this scumread on sleepy is weird with his other scumreads. I think he wants to say A and B and C are all scummy let's lynch all of them instead of thinking A OR B OR C are scum and trying to figure out which is town. As town if my scumreads don't make sense together I have a POWERFUL URGE to try and figure out what's confusing me. Pine just maintains scumreads on a bunch of people and voteparks on Soda.

Any explanation to that vote? Or are you just gonna sit there with a vote on me and expect everyone to wagon..

Scum have a way of asking for an explanation where town would essentially just call the accuser dumb or scum.

I agree with the majority of your case on Soda, but not this. Personally, I can think of very, very little in this game more frustrating than being Town and having unexplained votes on me. I've gone batshit on people for not having good reasons (not counting RVS) for their votes, when all of mine (both as Town and as scum) are meticulously considered and usually explained in detail.

Your vote is parked on this guy but you nitpick part of my case... Bleh.

I want to say that 403 is too blatantly scummy to be scummy, but from what I've observed I am uncertain that Mattman is competent enough to be that clever. In other words, as much as I want to dissect the WIFOM of OMGUSing that badly, I don't know if it's possible.

ANOTHER guy he fencesits and vaguely leaves in the scumpile. Vote stays securely parked on Soda.

I answered your question a long time ago, at least twice. I decided to ignore your constant pestering to quote it, thinking you'd let it go and learn how to read my ISO. Your question was and is utterly irrelevant to the current game, and therefore continuing to hammer away at my refusal to answer it a third time is either really bad scum play or

ridiculously

bad Town play. Combined with your other scummy actions, it comes off strictly as an attempt to appear productive while making it seem like I'm not answering legitimate questions. This is a false premise. Your vote on me is based solely on this, which equates to really, really bad OMGUS.

Now go ISO me and kindly fuck off.

He sounds like he's yelling at somebody he knows is town (though Sleepy has been sitting on his scumlist) and is frustrated that they're stumbling into causing nuisance to scum by being stupid.

I think Pine is counterwagoning.

Pretty sure my opinions on Soda were registered long before the Triangle wagon began. Both wagons have their origins in the first few pages. But you're right, I will happily go over to the Triangle wagon if that's the one that's going to go through today. I feel both have roughly equal merits, though those merits are different.

Soda is scummy and a liability if Town. Triangle is very scummy, and though not a liability, will not be taken seriously if Town because of said scumminess.

Fence sitting super hard between two wagons while parked on one of them instead of trying to figure out which is the WAGON OF TRUTH just feels like the scum approach to the situation. Not to mention: If town starts running up a scumbag after running up town, scum will often lock in on the original townie who was run up to try and get them lynched instead rather than trying to start a new CW. You attacking various people while locked in on soda may be that. It's also possible Soda & Triangle are town and you're scum with Reck or some other pals.

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

He ISOed himself and saw he had said stuff during RVS and had to asterisk it to make it unimportant. If I see no reason to believe somebody is scum I just say so; who cares what I've said before if it's brought up I can explain. Also like I said before this is just such a fence-sit + townreadblock move.

Well that was a wall, but I want to let other people understand what's bothering me about Pine and see if I can get some agreement / disagreement.
This town is frustratingly lacking in drive.
WALL SUMMARY for TLDRers:

1. Pine does fencesitty qualify-ey nitpicky stuff that collectively feels like scum trepidation.
2. He doesn't try to figure out WHICH of the people he's called scum are scum and which are town, he just vote parks on one guy and calls a bunch of other people scummy.
3. He thinks SK was on the ball early and voted Soda for much the same reason as SK (suggesting SK's playing well), but also accuses SK of being 'scum playing badly.' Then he yells at SK like he knows SK's town but is frustrated with SK over being caught for the wrong reasons. Side-by-side ISO highlights how scummy Pine's interaction with SK looks.

I've asked hurricane to pour over this stuff and tell me whether I'm crazy or not.

If you're so convinced SK is bussing Soda (who you supposedly want to eliminate as a liability as opposed to a clear scum) then why are you voting Triangle.
It doesn't fit.
VOTE: Pine

I just checked out a few games of meta and as town, you list a lot of people as scum but you make guesses about what pairings make sense (A or B is scum but not both etc) and have an idea about what the scumteam might be in a way that you don't here.
You also don't do nearly the same level of qualify-ey nitpicky fencesitty stuff. (Pine fencesits as town but tries to figure out which is the right side of the fence instead of letting things just sit)

Yay content; apologies to Weird for yelling I just have been kinda frustrated with lurkercount overall this game.
Pine's latest does the whole 'consider my reads when I die' thing that is pretty common scumfare, but he does finally talk a bit about what one player in his scumlist's alignment would say about the others. OTOH that bit about SK is meh, as its a fairly weak reason to prefer one wagon over another (wouldn't sleepyscum just lie?) and makes Pine's Triangle vote look funny anyway.

Furcscum would probably claim something random; it seems like that would line up with furcolow's nature. I don't see Furc with Pine though so we'll see where things go. Furc, vote Pine or Triangle.

Weird, I (llamarble) am the only player in this hydra posting in the thread (except for that hiccup where head 2 popped in for 3 posts), so that may be why you didn't get hydra vibes from us until later on.

Pine's meta example does check out with how he acted when run up.
Scumbags sometimes use their own behavior as town to know what to do, but it's just :hard: not to vote on your own counterwagon as scum unless you're CONFIDENT town will eat it up.
VOTE: Triangle
If he flips town, Reck better be DARN USEFUL tomorrow because he's been calling me scum all day while NOT ENGAGING.

Soda has a couple of minor towntells. "Augh" is a towntell because trying to figure out scum has a certain agonizingness to it.
"Pine was on my scumlist but not public" is also a towntell because scum don't really have reads that aren't part of their image.
I'm not interested in lynching Soda today.

Pine still bothers me a lot. He thinks the counterwagon to himself has a very good chance of being on scum, but isn't voting on it.
At this point we just need somebody to die. This game's activity level is just not sufficient for a new wagon on Reck/Grimm/Yates.
My townread on Implosion doesn't feel strong anymore, which provides another decent triangle buddy.

I don't feel like I have this one figured out and it makes me sad. Hopefully Mattman's replacement is an active player. I'm happy with Alex's content now and think he's town.
VOTE: Triangle

I do hate that Triangle is making zero effort not to get lynched.
Also the whole pine wagon feels town to me...

Town people:
Me
Furc
Uphill
Alex

Townish:
Mattman
Soda
SK? (outdated read)

Other people:
Reck (I just don't trust myself to read him at this point)
Grimm (outdated read)

Scummy people:
Yates
Implosion
Pine/triangle??

Pine (5): SleepyKrew, Uphill, Furcolow, Weirdalexv, FoN.
Triangle123 (5): SodaSpirit17, Yates, Grimmjow, Reck, Nacho.
SleepyKrew (1): Pine
SodaSpirit17 (1): Implosion.

Not Voting (1):

Triangle123.

The Pine wagon is WAY more town-driven. Every single member of the Triangle wagon is at least somewhat scummy.

I have rereading to do, but I'll ramble a bit about stuff I've been pondering:
Signs both wagons were on scum:
1. Wagonees reluctant to lynch each other.
2. A scumwagon won out (it's difficult for scum vs town with lots of votes on each to result in a scumlynch D1)
3. Lots of attempts to start flashwagons.

Signs Triangle was bussed:
1. Wagon members were scummy players.
2. Yates did that "I'm locking in my vote on Triangle and am now going to be puff the magic lurker until I get some cred from that flip" thing.
3. Several other votes were locked on Triangle forever including Reck (powerbusser extraordinaire), Grimm, Soda.
4. Triangle was a very bussable player and responded to her wagon like a player who was getting bussed (not fighting as hard, etc)
5. Most people not on the Triangle wagon were respectably town.

I'm guessing it was either one on one off or two on with Pinescum.

Current best guess is Pine + Yates.

@FoN: I've played a good deal with Reck now, and I don't think he'd be willing to consider anyone other than Triangle at this point unless the Triangle wagon dies for today.

If SK were to flip Town, I'd support a D2 Triangle lynch with all of the evidence thus far presented returning in full force. If he flips scum, however, I feel that would completely clear Triangle.

Hence why I'd prefer SK, then Triangle or Soda depending on flip.

@Implosion: Yes, good case. Soda is probably scum,

but isn't the lynch for today

Fuck it! There's conditional modifiers attached to the SK-Triangle relationship, and I'm a lot more confident of Soda at this point than I am of either SK or Triangle.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Obvscum first, then probscum, then conditionally-scum.

Vote: Soda

Same reasons as before. Let's keep up the momentum.

SKrew is a good alternative.

Excuse me?

Like seriously, you don't think you're sufficiently superior to Triangle, who has played 2 games, to try and follow what she was trying to accomplish with her posts?
386 isn't even wifom, it just looks like scum talking about a buddy. When scum says "X has a good point" X is usually either town going wrong or a buddy they want to give points to. I'm not sure how WIFOM factors into it at all.

JACK ALL, HUH?
I THINK THAT'S AT LEAST 8X AS MUCH AS YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAS SAID ABOUT ME.

[Pine]

Cool story bro.

I'll admit that I seem to have incorrectly recalled the amount you nattered about me. I didn't really care at the time, or now for that matter.

It still doesn't address your shameless vote-hopping, flash-wagoning, changing your cases to suit public opinion, your sudden reversals, or your generally opportunistic behavior.

[xRECKONERx]

tl;dr

Though for what it's worth my #1 reason for being on FoN right now is the fact he VEHEMENTLY tried to stay off that triangleScum wagon. And he was still pushing for a Pine lynch, who is obvtown and has been fairly town the entirety of this game.

[Force of Nature]

In my last few games I've changed my vote more than anybody else.
Sudden reversals and vote hopping are HOW I ROLL.
It has worked well for me; smashing things up / constantly viewing the game from different angles helps both me and the rest of town get good reads come lynchtime.
What is this 'changing my cases to suit public opinion' you speak of? I'm pretty sure I've been on a lot of both popular and unpopular wagons.

As for what Yates said, as lynchtime approached I thought Triangle would flip town and Pine would flip scum.
So I told triangle to vote Pine when Pine was the only alternative to her own lynch.
And I voted Pine.
I felt kind of unsure about the whole thing though and didn't yowl as loud as I might have had I felt more sure Triangle was town / Pine scum.
I think if I had actually been trying to prevent a D1 scumlynch I could've persuaded Implosion, who thought I was town and respects me.
Reck, your accusation that I "VEHEMENTLY" tried to stay off the triangleScum wagon is flat out wrong.

[Force of Nature]

Actually I like this. A lot.
VOTE: Triangle
With Sodabuddy.
Reck latching on to a random dude who turns out to actually be scummy feels fairly town.
And now that Reck and I are voting the same person a flock of sheep is due.

Also Grimmjow is probtown.

Jury still out on Pine. Maybe he'll call me an SK again.
Soda wagon has gotten meh and probably can die.
My triangle vote still feels excellent.
Yates is scum.
Haven't made my mind up on Reck. I haven't liked some of his stuff so far but Furc push & Triangle vote do feel good.

Obviously winning 11 games in a row takes luck and good teammates, but it's been quite awhile since I lost a game for my team.
Also I personally did major damage to the scumteam in a solid fraction of them.

You agree my votes in the right place; Grimm's not getting lynched at the moment so let him defend himself.
Make yourself useful and raise more Triangle votes.

I'll be on later.

Actually I'm starting to want to vote Triangle myself.

Reck, who are Triangle's partners?
Right now I think Pine + ???
If you can fill in some possibilities for the ????s I'll feel better about this.
I don't really have enough non-town-reads if you're town, so something's broken.

VOTE: TRIANGLE VOTE:
Lynchtime.

VOTE: Triangle

I expect Pine to vote Triangle considering he's said he thinks Triangle is scummier but Soda is more of a liability (which is a good chunk of why Pine's scum).

Pine's meta example does check out with how he acted when run up.
Scumbags sometimes use their own behavior as town to know what to do, but it's just :hard: not to vote on your own counterwagon as scum unless you're CONFIDENT town will eat it up.
VOTE: Triangle
If he flips town, Reck better be DARN USEFUL tomorrow because he's been calling me scum all day while NOT ENGAGING.

I'd be MUCH happier with lynching triangle today if it weren't for how bad Reck looks.

Soda has a couple of minor towntells. "Augh" is a towntell because trying to figure out scum has a certain agonizingness to it.
"Pine was on my scumlist but not public" is also a towntell because scum don't really have reads that aren't part of their image.
I'm not interested in lynching Soda today.

Pine still bothers me a lot. He thinks the counterwagon to himself has a very good chance of being on scum, but isn't voting on it.
At this point we just need somebody to die. This game's activity level is just not sufficient for a new wagon on Reck/Grimm/Yates.
My townread on Implosion doesn't feel strong anymore, which provides another decent triangle buddy.

I don't feel like I have this one figured out and it makes me sad. Hopefully Mattman's replacement is an active player. I'm happy with Alex's content now and think he's town.
VOTE: Triangle

Triangle lynch honestly isn't awful based on Triangle's posting.
I just have scumreads/inklings on so many people on that wagon.
Reck has just spent the entire game sitting on a triangle vote and chainsawing at anybody who attacks Grimmjow, who is scummy as all hell.

Huh, that Reckvote feels just a tad townish.
Soda still feels town though. That 'I have internal reads I haven't shared' post and the 'Triangle did something scummy augh' post feel town.
I'd rather lynch Triangle than soda.
Maybe both Pine and Triangle are scum and that's why they're so religiously failing to vote each other. Heh.

Eh, my full reread of Pine still leaves me feeling like he's scum.
If you guys do lynch Triangle I hope I'm proven wrong.

719 is perhaps the best example. Why the HELL would I say Triangle lynch was decent if I was trying to convince the last couple people to vote Pine over Triangle?

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

[Grimmjow]

I've quit reading FoN's posts. The back and forth between Pine and FoN over this idea of intimidation is useless. Let's move on.

Vote: Uphill

I'll explain tonight, as I have to get read for work soon and don't have time to write it up.

[xRECKONERx]

I've quit reading FoN's posts. The back and forth between Pine and FoN over this idea of intimidation is useless. Let's move on.

Vote: Uphill

I'll explain tonight, as I have to get read for work soon and don't have time to write it up.

guffaw.gif

[Force of Nature]

Haha, I honestly have no problem with anyone who isn't voting me skipping my admittedly pretty long self-defense posts.
I'll be doing some casewriting on SK today.
Equi thinks Nacho, Pine, Yates, and Furc are all town and I tend to agree but with reservations about Yates.