Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Regfan]

I think your request for a JKer CC is pretty terrible at this juncture.
Frankly, I'm against the cop one too - but at least that one makes 'any sense at all'.

I can't tell if you're trolling or actually serious with this? If there's a JK then Nekoko would be confirmed mafia to them (Can't be 3 PR's in the setup) meaning they'd have to claim here; if they don't we'd essentially be clearing not just one but two scum (Since I'm pretty sure if Nekoko is scum it's with Ms).

[Tierce]

Votecount 2.11

(2)

TheIrishPope

- MontyWhittaker, Nekoko
(1)

Nekoko

- TheIrishPope

(0)

Regfan

-

(Ms Marangal)

(4)

Not voting

- Regfan, Mathdino, Thor665, Ms Marangal

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 13 at 5:55 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-13 17:55:00)

[Thor665]

@Regfan - I thought you were calling for a counter to Irish's "claim".

I'm still neutral on the claim call, but if it's all just for Neko then at least it's debatable.

[Tierce]

awestfie replaces Mathdino.

[Thor665]

@Reg - so...about that Irish Pope lynch.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm for it, but TIP bothers me.

TIP, are you trying to counter-claim Neko? Y/N

I can't, for the life of me, understand why you are addressing me with these questions rather then the IC. Theoretically speaking, he would be the better person to address these kinds of answers to.


and I'm assuming I misread your 819 then, because that's the impression I got off it

[TheIrishPope]

May the IC or SE explain what counter-claim is to me
Thor was fairly inactive; I couldn't wait around with a deadline of two days.

[Ms Marangal]

Reg, I don't really agree with your read on Thor. Something about his play bothers me and this is the only game I'm not auto-town reading him in (granted, I'm don't have any finished games with him so I'm not exactly sure to how accurate my alignment read on him would be)

I agree that a few of his posts look like he doesn't think he'll survive to see the next day, though it looks like faked concern to me

I do kinda agree with your Monty read, and I wholly agree with your Dino/Syc read.

the post-hammer Paranoia could easily be faked, given it wasn't exactly subtle, as could alot of his good progressions during the game. the genuinity in 607 is more about theory then it is about the actual game

Didn't read your post on Nekoko, though I'm fairly sure I had already addressed that

Pedit: when you call the other person out by stating that you have the stated role

[Regfan]

Awestfie replacing in is going to make this game interesting (I know her from EM + Have hydra'ed with her so I can read her very very well).

@Reg - so...about that Irish Pope lynch.

Ugh. I was going to say "Yeah that sounds like a good idea since Nekokos claim is likely legitimate" but guess what I found: In this scum QT she states "

I think the two of us should start breadcrumbing or something, don't you think? For example, I'll breadcrumb as if I'm a cop and you will breadcrumb as if you're the seer."

There's no Mafia QT posted for Newbie 1315 where she was also mafia (I'd like to have it if it could be posted though) but the fact that she does consider breadcrumbing as scum means that her claim isn't anywhere near as genuine. If there's a counter-claim (A Cop or JK I really really want them to claim today; If we mslynch today we end up in LYLO and deciphering who is the legitimate PR inside LYLO isn't fun whereas if we have a mslynch when doing it at worst case we guarantee one scum lynch. I have a question for you though; If Nekkok is legitimate and Ms is town via it then who are the two scum? I'd assume Irish is one but which town-read do I have wrong for the second?

[Regfan]

Irish, counter-claiming is stating that someone has claimed your role - In this situation it also works for JK though since someone claiming cop is claiming a JKs role.

Ms, I don't see the posts where Thor considered he'd die as faked (And personally I don't think he's the sort of player to make those as scum in a newbie game - I could be wrong but it's not fitting what I know of him as a playstyle). Also "Not auto-town-reading him" isn't really a scum-tell for Thor (There's a lot of things he does that are non-alignment related in every game; I've only noticed little things that are town-tells or scum-tells for him). I'd agree the post-hammer paranoia from Monty is something I should re-read because it's something I might have misread the first time around though.

[Thor665]

May the IC or SE explain what counter-claim is to me
Thor was fairly inactive; I couldn't wait around with a deadline of two days.

Claiming is the act of stating your role PM - 'I am VT' 'I am the cop' ect. ect.
Counter-claiming is the act of calling a claim fake because you are also claiming the same role.

Player A - I am cop!
Player B - I am the real cop, you are lying.

Make sense?

@Reg - I usually prefer to just find 'a' scum, and then worry about partners. The easy logical answer is 'maybe one of you other scumspects' the sadly common truth is 'someone we currently think is town'. I will personally admit, for me - it would be you as the most likely current partner, albeit just from the play today, I'd need to go back to see if it makes sense yesterday.

[Thor665]

(There's a lot of things he does that are non-alignment related in every game; I've only noticed little things that are town-tells or scum-tells for him)

I'd love to hear them sometime

[Tierce]

Votecount 2.12

(2)

TheIrishPope

- MontyWhittaker, Nekoko
(1)

Nekoko

- TheIrishPope

(4)

Not voting

- Regfan, awestfie, Thor665, Ms Marangal

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.
The deadline is May 13 at 5:55 PM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-05-13 17:55:00)

[Regfan]

@Reg - I usually prefer to just find 'a' scum, and then worry about partners. The easy logical answer is 'maybe one of you other scumspects' the sadly common truth is 'someone we currently think is town'. I will personally admit, for me - it would be you as the most likely current partner, albeit just from the play today, I'd need to go back to see if it makes sense yesterday.

I don't normally live deep enough into the game (Probably 3-4 games out of 40) where it's a 3 way or something where you're able to hunt using a lot of interactions of a flipped player. I have to make do trying to work out and nail the scum-team before I die and right now I'm not sure at all. If Nekoko is mafia a lot makes sense but if she's town then it would make Nekoko/Ms!Town and I have a strong town-read on Math, you and to a slightly lesser extent Monty meaning I'd have to be misreading someone - That's what I need to work out.

I'll probably give a few people one more read-over but eagerly awaiting on Awestfies thoughts on everything (Especially the claim).

[TheIrishPope]

I'm not the cop
But I'm not sure that Nekoko is the cop, nor why she would state it knowing there is no Doctor.

[Regfan]

Irish, mind explaining Post 789 and Post 791 to me because they make little to no sense if you're a VT.

[awestfie]

Hey everyone. Got my role PM and super pumped to finally play a newbie game again (Remember them being very enjoyable last time I IC'ed one). I'm going to boil a pot of tea and then do a read through of the thread, if there's anything you want me to look more into specifically let me know soon.

Why would you post just to say that you can't post right now? Seems like filler to me. Also, you were clearly faking AFK; Regfan should be lynched purely based on this post alone.

Also while it's superlame can someone please unvote while I go through the thread - I don't want the risk of someone quick-hammering.

VOTE: Regfan

--

And in all seriousness, I will UNVOTE: - I'll read this game later today, is there anything in particular I should know? By that I mean, has anyone claimed? I think it'd be more useful for me to have that information prior to re-reading instead of finding it out during my re-read.

[Regfan]

I'll read this game later today, is there anything in particular I should know? By that I mean, has anyone claimed? I think it'd be more useful for me to have that information prior to re-reading instead of finding it out during my re-read.

Why would you just say you can't post right now? Seems like filler to me.

Nekoko claimed cop today with an innocent on Ms. If you're JK/Cop you need to CC.

[TheIrishPope]

I needed to be clear on things before saying anything. Why why why would someone claim with Doctor gone? It seems like a waste of a PR, unless Nekoko is lying to protect the real Cop/Jailkeeper.
Anything I say may and will be misconstrued by scum. Why, maybe you know Nekoko is lying because you are Cop/Jailkeeper but don't want to risk getting NKed.
I'm still not sure what motivated her to claim, though. Do you have any ideas, Reg?

[Regfan]

If you were a JK or Cop I can understand having to ask if it's smart for you to claim since doc is dead; As a VT I can't. That's my issue with it; As a VT you'd know that there's no chance that mafia would shoot you therefore making the fact that the doctor is dead irrelevant. It looks very much like setting up a fake-claim.

And Nekoko explained why she claimed: The was 4-5 days until deadline and she thought there was a chance either Ms or herself would be run up (Which there was since I thought and kind of still think that there is scum inside them) - So she claimed to avoid deadline panic.

[TheIrishPope]

So how do we proceed on this information?

[Regfan]

You're not really answering my question; If you're a VT why would you care that the doctor is dead when asked to claim? (And don't say "I wasn't sure - I wanted to ask someone else because that doesn't help at all - I want to know why YOU thought there was a chance the doctor death could be relevant to your claim).

And from here I need to do some re-reads, I want to hear Awetfies thoughts on everything and see if she CC's. Leaning towards lynching you though (Still have Thor/Math(Awestfie) as strong-town, think Monty is town (But he's one of the people I need to do a re-read of) and we're not lynching the innocent so Ms is of the table completely and while I think the fact that Nekoko suggested breadcrumbing cop as scum in a prior game of hers I'm not sure if lynching her today is optimal; It might be best to give her a night, if she's legitimate it'll force scum into making a decision whether to shoot her or let her live and get another report giving us a great deal of information to work with tomorrow leaving only you - And I really think your 789 and 791 was setting up a PR claim).

[TheIrishPope]

I see what you mean. I was just curious really.
Hypothetically, if I counterclaim, would that be good for us or not?

[Regfan]

Yes, if you're a cop/jailkeeper you should have claimed when we asked for a counter-claim pages ago.

[Nekoko]

Ugh. I was going to say "Yeah that sounds like a good idea since Nekokos claim is likely legitimate" but guess what I found: In this scum QT she states "I think the two of us should start breadcrumbing or something, don't you think? For example, I'll breadcrumb as if I'm a cop and you will breadcrumb as if you're the seer."

"It's okay. I didn't breadcrumb too D:" ~ I didn't push through with it though so whatever.

There's no Mafia QT posted for Newbie 1315 where she was also mafia (I'd like to have it if it could be posted though) but the fact that she does consider breadcrumbing as scum means that her claim isn't anywhere near as genuine.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/aj8LKtBSchi

Hypothetically, if I counterclaim, would that be good for us or not?

Hypothetically, you would be lying if you counterclaimed now