Mafiascum.net

@BRO - to clarify, you just established that Thor was reacting off the cuff to your comment.

And then you want to act like that is alignment indicative.
Or that town/scum Thor would be more likely to carefully follow what BRO was saying earlier in the day.

Whut?

In post 823, CrashTextDummie wrote:All caught up. Smargaret is an overwhelming scum read. I actively hated Scorpions thrust for the entirety of D2 that he was in and penguin hasn't instilled much confidence in the slot. Smudger I thought looked decent in his D2 posts, but Antihero was somewhat sketch around the Cxin wagon.

Thor makes me sad. All his pushes from D2 forward have been offensively bad and I'd hate for him to sully his reputation further if he was town in this game. Which I currently think he might be. Could I interest you in talking some sense, Thor? Pull you out of the darkness and onto the side of goodness and justice?

PV's entry into the game was awesome and his entire play so far is without blemish. Very town.

I urgently need updated Smargaret reads from Bulba and penguin.

vote: smargaret

I'll get to case making and arguments after a round of sleep.

YES YES YES

CTD, we're on the same lines and this makes you town as all fuck.

In post 801, Antihero wrote:my "reasoning" isn't terrible because i'm not "reasoning" anything

So you object to her using the word 'reasoning' but not her using a read on Smudger to inform her read on you now?

CTD, I've started going back and forth on smargaret. Posts like this:

In post 702, smargaret wrote:

In post 666, T S O wrote:

In post 655, smargaret wrote:PV, what part of I had a townread on Zekrom do you not understand? I was asking questions to try and figure out what everyone else was, but I already had a townread on Zek. And I tend to ask questions when things catch my eye, especially D1 - I'm not totally sure why you think questioning Zakk is a problem.

Anyway, from reading through the stuff I missed, PV came across as scummy, mostly in the desperation to get a counterwagon going so we don't lynch cxin today. Granted, that means I have way too many scumreads, but another couple of flips will fix that, and cxin needs rope - unless we're actually getting the cop result today?

Pere needs rope because he's pushing you, cxin needs rope because he's likely to be hung today.

Good Jesus.

PV needs rope because he's pushing me, but he either hasn't actually read the posts he's citing as evidence of my scumminess (specifically, where I got the townread on Zek) or he's misrepping like heck. And I was pushing cxin before pushing cxin was cool /hipster.

On the one hand, we have what could be scum grumpy for being called out for poor reasoning, but on the other hand we have smargaret taking enormous amounts of credit for the cxinlee lynch when it was looking quite inevitable, yet scum knew he'd almost certainly flip town barring third party hijinks that we haven't seen evidence of so far. So why remind everyone that she'd been pushing a mislynch for ages?

I get a feeling from posts like 585 too that she's not just going along with popular opinions here, not trying to keep her head down. And then she votes PV right after going back and calling out Antihero, which I don't like.

BRO, you probably paid closer attention to the Narnia game after we died than I did--how does this play line up with smargaret there for you?

(expired on 2014-04-02 16:40:08)

till Day 3 Deadline

In post 824, Thor665 wrote:You mean by not suspecting a slot you indicated was not a good slot?
I dunno, maybe, why don't you ask me something or present this Smargaret case and ask for feedback?

Could you please rephrase the first sentence? It's not clear to me who you're talking about.

Smargaret case is forthcoming in a bit (and the only feedback I really ask for is more Smargaret votes), but I do have a couple questions for you:

Why does it feel like you're almost exclusively going after soft targets? Apart from Bulba (from whom you've largely backed off), your suspect list from D2 forward comprised zakk, Yiley, Cxin, all the non contributors, dropouts and oddballs. You maintained your zakk push post Pere-replacing in, but I don't really see what you find scummy about him and your vote seems to largely be a zakk-carry-over. Your reads are by and large the least ambitious out of anyone in the game and I quite frankly find it hard to swallow that you'd think both scum would be in that group of people.

Also, for someone who once claimed to support lots of lynches, why is your vote so stagnant? It's been on Pere's slot since the beginning of D2 with only a slight detour of hammering a townie. You mince words a lot with a variety of people, but I don't get an overwhelming feeling that you have much interest in moving the game forward.

Knock yourself out.

In post 815, BROseidon wrote:

In post 811, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 807, BROseidon wrote: Weren't you in Calvin and Hobbes mafia, or am I making that up?

You're making that up.

You should read that, then.

I don't necessarily have times to devote to games I'm in now. What makes you think that I'll read a Varsoon game?

In post 822, CrashTextDummie wrote:Bit of weirdness from Bulba to start D2:

In post 351, Bulbazak wrote:First, NKs are a mess of WIFOM, especially when you don't have enough to establish a pattern. Second, if my purpose as scum was to kill those who suspect me, explain why I would kill Porkens, who I felt I could lynch, over Thor, who was seen as univeral town and would never get lynched?

In post 353, Bulbazak wrote:Again, the question is: Why would I kill someone who I felt i could get lynched, instead of just killing the person who would never get lynched?

Do you usually assess who's easy and hard to lynch when you're town?

Short answer: Yes. I pay attention to viable lynches and momentum.

Long answer: I was accused of being scum, so I was addressing the argument from that assumption. Normally, if I'm pushing someone very hard, I'm confident in their wagon. If I'm doing so as scum, I'm confident that I can wear them down and potentially get them lynched. Essentially, I'm in it for the long haul, just as I would be if I were town. Now, unless something happened to make that person instantly obv. or conf. town, there would be no reason for scum me to kill them. So having been accused of killing Porkens, who I was actively calling scum d1, my question would be why I would make that kill as scum, since I showed that I had great confidence in my ability to push that wagon. Does that make sense?

In post 823, CrashTextDummie wrote: I urgently need updated Smargaret reads from Bulba and penguin.

Null/town. I understand the arguments against her, but I'm not that convinced it indicates scum, especially when I have several other stronger scumspects.

In post 830, CrashTextDummie wrote:Why does it feel like you're almost exclusively going after soft targets?

Who are the hard targets in this game? Much less, the hard targets I'm avoiding.

In post 830, CrashTextDummie wrote:Also, for someone who once claimed to support lots of lynches, why is your vote so stagnant?

Because people are avoiding voting Pere and giving me that lynch that I want so badly.

In post 830, CrashTextDummie wrote:Knock yourself out.

It was super tough - but I managed.

I don't have a whole lot to say, mostly because life happened and I was supposed to be asleep three hours ago, but Antihero did not come off well on my reread. Specifically, what was up with the vote on Bulbazak Day 2? That wagon was going precisely nowhere, and Antihero didn't do a whole lot to push it or move his vote elsewhere where it would do more good.

So in short, yeah, I'm happy voting for either Antihero or PV. And because somebody asked if it was OMGUS, probably at least in part, I'm only human after all, but I also think that his logic either really sucks or he's misrepping me.

thor - because I misremembered your question: nothing changed particularly (although pv failed to respond to my pointing out where he was really misrepping/misreading me at the tail end of the day) but I had a scumread on pv yesterday too, I just saw cxin as a higher priority.

In post 582, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 573, T S O wrote:

In post 563, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 558, T S O wrote: You're Townreading smargaret?

It's a null/town read, but a town read nonetheless.

I can't see why.

I just realized I didn't answer this one. It has to do with the way she's pursuing Cxin. I read him as scum, and I don't think she's bussing him.

In post 831, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 823, CrashTextDummie wrote: I urgently need updated Smargaret reads from Bulba and penguin.

Null/town. I understand the arguments against her, but I'm not that convinced it indicates scum, especially when I have several other stronger scumspects.

Smargaret was a null/town read because Cxin was a scum read. Cxin flipped town. Smargaret is a null/town read because..?

I'm obviously looking for potential Smargaret buddies, but I find this answer problematic regardless of her alignment.

PA had similar reasons to dismiss Smargaret yesterday:

In post 639, penguin_alien wrote:smargaret--Eh, if cxinlee is scum as I suspect smargaret pretty much has to be town or incredibly self-destructive scum. Going with town unless I get reason to think otherwise.

And she's decidedly on the fence today. Not necessarily indicative of scumbuddies, but also scummy.

In post 832, Thor665 wrote:Who are the hard targets in this game? Much less, the hard targets I'm avoiding.

Take your pick out of anyone who's actually around and capable of defending themselves. You've had the low-hanging fruit argument already with a number of people towards the beginning of the game, you may take it as a reference.

Cute answer, but very much avoiding the meat of the question. Did you really, well and truly believe at any point in the game that the scum team was Zekrom/zakk/Yiley? Did you honestly believe at the end of D2 that Cxin was a reasonable substitute in that hypo scum team? That the scum team was exclusively made of the people who didn't put an iota of effort into the game? That no one who was actually posting was worth pushing?

Thor665 wrote:

In post 830, CrashTextDummie wrote:Also, for someone who once claimed to support lots of lynches, why is your vote so stagnant?

Because people are avoiding voting Pere and giving me that lynch that I want so badly.

And you've worked hard to get it!

Thor665 wrote:

In post 830, CrashTextDummie wrote:Knock yourself out.

It was super tough - but I managed.

You can do better.

In post 835, CrashTextDummie wrote: Smargaret was a null/town read because Cxin was a scum read. Cxin flipped town. Smargaret is a null/town read because..?

I thought I explained this rather well. I have stronger scumspects, and I'm not that convinced by the cases against her so far. Are you really saying I should be thinking she's scum, because Cxin flipped town?

CTD, your argument against Thor suggests you think stronger players are scum. Who?

In post 837, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 835, CrashTextDummie wrote: Smargaret was a null/town read because Cxin was a scum read. Cxin flipped town. Smargaret is a null/town read because..?

I thought I explained this rather well. I have stronger scumspects, and I'm not that convinced by the cases against her so far. Are you really saying I should be thinking she's scum, because Cxin flipped town?

Yeah, that is more or less what I'm saying. You declared her a town read yesterday. When asked about it, you clarified that she was more of a null read, but leaning town because Cxinlee was a scum read and she was pushing him. That was the only thing you had to say about Smargaret. I would have expected the Cxinlee-flip to impact your Smargaret at least on some level if you weren't just bullshitting yesterday. I wouldn't necessarily expect a fullblown scum read but I'm most definitely concerned about the read staying exactly the same. The reasoning for it has changed though, and that doesn't sit right with me either. Who are these plentiful scum reads of yours? BRO evidently, and then? Still TSO? Those are the only remaining scum reads from your most recent list and as far as I can tell, you haven't indicted anyone else since.

Besides, while "I have other scumreads" may be a good reason not to push someone else, it's a pretty terrible reason to actively town read someone in my book. Terrible in the sense that town minds generally don't operate like that.

In post 838, T S O wrote:CTD, your argument against Thor suggests you think stronger players are scum. Who?

Everyone currently in the game is technically a stronger player than Zekrom, zakk, Yiley and cxinlee were. I realize that Thor is pushing Pere at this point, who certainly is a strong player, but I have yet to see any compelling evidence that he's doing it for anything Pere did himself.

I'm mainly looking at Smargaret, Bulba, PA right now. I'm going to have another look at BRO, who I feel is flying under the radar and Antihero, who was a wildly mixed bag on initial read-through. Strong likelihood of scum in that first trio. Lesser likelyhood of scum in the other two. Low likelihood of scum among the rest.

Also, I'm not arguing Thor per se. The current goal is to inspire him to better himself and for him to become a productive member of the town. I hear he responds well to snark, so I'm trying that.

Do you think Thor is town, or do you really want him to be Town?

The former, though it's admittedly not the most solid read in the world. What I really want him to be is less sucky in the scumhunting department and therefore less of a detriment to the town.

Incidentally, what's your read on Thor? I don't remember if you have one offhand.

I ...think he's Town, but I also know he's a player of the ability to easily fool me.

In post 828, penguin_alien wrote:On the one hand, we have what could be scum grumpy for being called out for poor reasoning, but on the other hand we have smargaret taking enormous amounts of credit for the cxinlee lynch when it was looking quite inevitable, yet scum knew he'd almost certainly flip town barring third party hijinks that we haven't seen evidence of so far. So why remind everyone that she'd been pushing a mislynch for ages?

CTD, can you comment on this? Because I think it would take very brazen scum to be crowing over an incoming mislynch as smargaret did. And I look forward to your thoughts on Smudger/Antihero.

In post 839, CrashTextDummie wrote:

In post 837, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 835, CrashTextDummie wrote: Smargaret was a null/town read because Cxin was a scum read. Cxin flipped town. Smargaret is a null/town read because..?

I thought I explained this rather well. I have stronger scumspects, and I'm not that convinced by the cases against her so far. Are you really saying I should be thinking she's scum, because Cxin flipped town?

Yeah, that is more or less what I'm saying. You declared her a town read yesterday. When asked about it, you clarified that she was more of a null read, but leaning town because Cxinlee was a scum read and she was pushing him. That was the only thing you had to say about Smargaret. I would have expected the Cxinlee-flip to impact your Smargaret at least on some level if you weren't just bullshitting yesterday. I wouldn't necessarily expect a fullblown scum read but I'm most definitely concerned about the read staying exactly the same. The reasoning for it has changed though, and that doesn't sit right with me either. Who are these plentiful scum reads of yours? BRO evidently, and then? Still TSO? Those are the only remaining scum reads from your most recent list and as far as I can tell, you haven't indicted anyone else since.

First, the Cxin read was based on different criteria then my Smargaret read, so his flip was not going to impact that read as much. Second, when is saying that I'm not convinced by the cases on her not a good enough reason to not have a scumread? I have a strong scumread on Bro, and a lesser one on TSO based on my previous reasoning. Anti is also a scumread of mine, but mainly because his posts are rubbing me the wrong way. Finally, a null/town read is not the same as a full blown town read. It means that I'm still sorting the slot, but if I had a gun to my head, I'd say that she was probably town. In common vernacular, it's leaning town, not town. Why are you so interested in trying to force me on a Smargaret wagon?

In post 839, CrashTextDummie wrote: Besides, while "I have other scumreads" may be a good reason not to push someone else, it's a pretty terrible reason to actively town read someone in my book. Terrible in the sense that town minds generally don't operate like that.

Why don't town minds operate like that? "I have stronger scumspects" is a pretty good reason to put her in the upper null levels. If I'm not reading someone as scum, why should I then actively push their wagon?

Why do you not think scum are in the weaker players? Why are you so preoccupied in getting rid of the stronger ones?

Antihero & PeregrineV have been prodded

ACK, PROD

penny wrote:So you object to her using the word 'reasoning' but not her using a read on Smudger to inform her read on you now?

hello brick wall
i'm having a lovely day, how are you?
do you mind if i smash my head against you for a while?

upon rereading, i don't think Bro's scum any more UNVOTE:

Prodded. Still here.