Mafiascum.net

Talking Earth-Two right now.

Okay.

Why do you think Lane is town?

I don't think scum would use such a weak and illogical case, especially this early in the day. Seems like a towny trying to catch someone, although in a flawed way.

I'll analyze tomorrow, but I've learned from recent experience not to consider someone scum because they act too scummy.

Not that he's acting too scummy, but that he would use this as his attack.

Clumsy, how did you go from "lane's pulling things out of his ass" to "too weak a case to be scum"?

In post 820, SnarkySnowman wrote:

In post 789, lilith2013 wrote:

In post 787, SnarkySnowman wrote:So I'm not sure exactly what to make of discussion on World 1 while on World 2 - feels like trying to be productive in a way that isn't relevant to whom we're actually lynching. So my vote isn't exactly random.

I disagree. Clumsy here is trying to look for an explanation for Xk to be the nightkill. Since we've only been in Earth One until now, the Earth Two scum team has to decide their kill based on Earth One play. It might be relevant to discuss Earth One play in this situation. I don't like that you're so quick to dismiss it.

VOTE: Snarky

They were killing with as much information as they had prior to game start - trying to read into it gets into a lot of wifom that is not productive. It's basically two different games happening, where you have the same character name and likely a different (or maybe the same) role. They had no info to base the kill on, and there doesn't seem to be much cross-world stuff. That's why I dismiss it.

You've basically agreed with me that the scum team is killing based on Earth One (i.e., limited) info. So I'm still not following why you're dismissing Clumsy's efforts. Do you think it was a towny or scummy thing for him to do?

Back from V/LA,

Yeah the timing of the speed wagon on me (just after I happen to go on my publicly posted V/LA) is suspicious as hell. No change there isn’t one scum in the pool of Java, Lilith, Kurio and Lane.

In post 756, lane0168 wrote:Honestly I was expecting someone to acknowledge it, but have an issue with it and avoid answering. Something like your post shows you have an issue with just answering outright. The hesitation reveals you could very well be town in one game and scum in another.

Clumsy's reaction also gives me the feeling they could be scum on earth 1 along with him being scummy there already.

In post 792, lane0168 wrote:@clumsy, to me, a town on both worlds says they're town on both worlds no objections. Cause what's the issue?

Um frankly that’s bullshit. No-one answered you. Because everyone but you sees the question for what it is – useless junk. I’ve already explained why there is not a single circumstance where anyone would answer anything but “Town in both Worlds”. You promptly ignore this. Let’s also revisit the chain of events –

You post your pointless question at 706

Kuroi makes a joke at 707. As others have noted somehow you don’t ascribe scum intent to his joke when he’s doing exactly what you said scum would do … avoid the question.

Kuroi, Clumsy, myself, Java and Snarky all post after you initial posted your question. No-one but Kuroi makes any sort of response.

You press the issue at 714. So now you’ve specifically brought the issue up again.

Clumsy makes another joke at 715. This joke you ascribe scum intent to.

TTH also posts and ignores your question.

At 720 I specifically mention I thought you were RVS derping around and explain why – your question was stupid. You say this is a scummy reaction.

For the record the first person to bother to answer your question is Java at 812. Pretty solid indicator that your reaction test was pointless.

In post 796, lane0168 wrote:No. That they did respond. And I don't like their responses. Magna here. Clumsy probably in earth 1

So Lane – why isn’t Clumsy possible scum on this Earth? And why am I not possible scum on Earth 1? I’m selling faint notes of inside information leaking here …

In post 823, Clumsy wrote:Okay, forcing discussion time. Lane is town. Thoughts?

So you are essentially saying Lane is too dumb to be scum? I have to say I disagree if simply for the fact that isn’t a real thing. What do you think of the fact Lane is assigning alignments based off his claimed reaction test that don’t make much sense in context?

In post 746, lilith2013 wrote:Also I'm not really a fan of this vote or the implication that his "open question" will achieve a significant furthering of the gamestate.

So you aren’t a fan of the vote? Which, given your later “Yeah my vote was maybe 50% serious or somesuch stuff”, isn’t out of line for early Day RVS moving along action? Why don’t you think Lane elaborating will not be a furthering of the gamestate and why did you feel the need to add significant as a quantifier onto your analysis?

In post 748, lilith2013 wrote:Like part of it is that this is my first game with Magna and so far he's come across as an incredibly intelligent player. I don't know if it's because we're back to the RVS stage again whereas D1 we saw him replace in and produce a lot of analysis at once but that post is just not doing it for me.

What level of analysis do you expect on what is essentially page 3 of another Day 1?

Phone posting. @Magna: That's perfectly fine to disagree, it's not a strong read for me in any case. Lane's whole thing here is completely illogical and pointless, and while I hate it when people dismiss scummy behavior as too scummy to be scum, in this particular case, my gut is telling me town. This read could change, and fairly easily at that. The reason I bring it up is because holy shit thread stagnation. At least it gives something to talk about, like right now. Gotta get discussion going.


Oh, and for the record I'm not calling Lane dumb. The point he's pushing is disingenuous, but I don't mean Lane is. I sincerely apologize if that's how that came across.

@Lillith Scummy behavior can come from town too. I stand by what I said, but I don't see this coming from scum. Mostly gut though.

In post 832, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Back from V/LA,

Yeah the timing of the speed wagon on me (just after I happen to go on my publicly posted V/LA) is suspicious as hell. No change there isn’t one scum in the pool of Java, Lilith, Kurio and Lane.

Don't be obtuse. The "timing" of the wagon was because people 1) disagreed with the post in which you declared VLA (that would be me), and/or 2) were suspicious that you were still alive (that would be me, lane, kuroi?). Joe and I were already voting you. That doesn't make a speedwagon. And the wagon disappeared shortly after.

In post 756, lane0168 wrote:Honestly I was expecting someone to acknowledge it, but have an issue with it and avoid answering. Something like your post shows you have an issue with just answering outright. The hesitation reveals you could very well be town in one game and scum in another.

Clumsy's reaction also gives me the feeling they could be scum on earth 1 along with him being scummy there already.

In post 792, lane0168 wrote:@clumsy, to me, a town on both worlds says they're town on both worlds no objections. Cause what's the issue?

Um frankly that’s bullshit. No-one answered you. Because everyone but you sees the question for what it is – useless junk. I’ve already explained why there is not a single circumstance where anyone would answer anything but “Town in both Worlds”. You promptly ignore this. Let’s also revisit the chain of events –

You post your pointless question at 706

Kuroi makes a joke at 707. As others have noted somehow you don’t ascribe scum intent to his joke when he’s doing exactly what you said scum would do … avoid the question.

Kuroi, Clumsy, myself, Java and Snarky all post after you initial posted your question. No-one but Kuroi makes any sort of response.

You press the issue at 714. So now you’ve specifically brought the issue up again.

Clumsy makes another joke at 715. This joke you ascribe scum intent to.

TTH also posts and ignores your question.

At 720 I specifically mention I thought you were RVS derping around and explain why – your question was stupid. You say this is a scummy reaction.

For the record the first person to bother to answer your question is Java at 812. Pretty solid indicator that your reaction test was pointless.

In post 796, lane0168 wrote:No. That they did respond. And I don't like their responses. Magna here. Clumsy probably in earth 1

So Lane – why isn’t Clumsy possible scum on this Earth? And why am I not possible scum on Earth 1? I’m selling faint notes of inside information leaking here …

In post 823, Clumsy wrote:Okay, forcing discussion time. Lane is town. Thoughts?

So you are essentially saying Lane is too dumb to be scum? I have to say I disagree if simply for the fact that isn’t a real thing. What do you think of the fact Lane is assigning alignments based off his claimed reaction test that don’t make much sense in context?

In post 746, lilith2013 wrote:Also I'm not really a fan of this vote or the implication that his "open question" will achieve a significant furthering of the gamestate.

So you aren’t a fan of the vote? Which, given your later “Yeah my vote was maybe 50% serious or somesuch stuff”, isn’t out of line for early Day RVS moving along action? Why don’t you think Lane elaborating will not be a furthering of the gamestate and why did you feel the need to add significant as a quantifier onto your analysis?

There was no qualifier on your vote --> I don't know how serious it is. I already told you, I don't play subtly. I can't read between the lines. (Probably why I suck at mafia so much, so maybe I should work on that.) I don't think us arguing about whether lane's reaction test worked or not will tell us anything about alignments, because I see it as more of a theory discussion than anything else, and we can all disagree about theory until the end of time regardless of alignments.

I don't know why I added significant, perhaps because I assumed your vote was fairly serious and so assigned some not insignificant amount of gravitas to your post?

In post 748, lilith2013 wrote:Like part of it is that this is my first game with Magna and so far he's come across as an incredibly intelligent player. I don't know if it's because we're back to the RVS stage again whereas D1 we saw him replace in and produce a lot of analysis at once but that post is just not doing it for me.

What level of analysis do you expect on what is essentially page 3 of another Day 1?

I'm not really sure. Just something other than what you posted. Like I said, I think you are incredibly intelligent and the analysis you produced in D1 was very.. penetrating, for lack of a better word. I already said it could be because D1 you replaced in and produced a lot of content right away and the difference between that and RVS that's throwing me off. This post from you is already making me feel better, although there's something bothering me that I can't quite place. I'll probably end up rereading your D1 ISO to compare.

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:Don't be obtuse. The "timing" of the wagon was because people 1) disagreed with the post in which you declared VLA (that would be me), and/or 2) were suspicious that you were still alive (that would be me, lane, kuroi?). Joe and I were already voting you. That doesn't make a speedwagon. And the wagon disappeared shortly after.

I’m not being obtuse at all. Are you saying that a wagon suddenly getting to L-1 in maybe 2 hours for little reasoning shouldn’t be suspect to me given the wagon is on me and I know I’m Town?

So just to be clear – I want you to affirmatively acknowledge that you actually think the “MoI is alive” is an actual reason to scum-read me.

Lane and Kuroi probably should do this also.

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:There was no qualifier on your vote --> I don't know how serious it is. I already told you, I don't play subtly. I can't read between the lines. (Probably why I suck at mafia so much, so maybe I should work on that.) I don't think us arguing about whether lane's reaction test worked or not will tell us anything about alignments, because I see it as more of a theory discussion than anything else, and we can all disagree about theory until the end of time regardless of alignments.

If Lane’s reaction test and everything surrounding it can’t tell us anything about alignments why do you think he made it in the first place?

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:I'm not really sure. Just something other than what you posted. Like I said, I think you are incredibly intelligent and the analysis you produced in D1 was very.. penetrating, for lack of a better word. I already said it could be because D1 you replaced in and produced a lot of content right away and the difference between that and RVS that's throwing me off. This post from you is already making me feel better, although there's something bothering me that I can't quite place. I'll probably end up rereading your D1 ISO to compare.

This is exactly why I am having trouble with your logic. Because clearly having 20 pages of content to chew on when I replaced in is significantly different levels of available data to make deductions from than RVS version 2.0.

In post 836, MagnaofIllusion wrote:

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:Don't be obtuse. The "timing" of the wagon was because people 1) disagreed with the post in which you declared VLA (that would be me), and/or 2) were suspicious that you were still alive (that would be me, lane, kuroi?). Joe and I were already voting you. That doesn't make a speedwagon. And the wagon disappeared shortly after.

I’m not being obtuse at all. Are you saying that a wagon suddenly getting to L-1 in maybe 2 hours for little reasoning shouldn’t be suspect to me given the wagon is on me and I know I’m Town?

It's fine to be suspicious and examine the people on your wagon, I just think you're kind of overstating how big of a deal the wagon was. It was basically an RVS wagon ffs.

So just to be clear – I want you to affirmatively acknowledge that you actually think the “MoI is alive” is an actual reason to scum-read me.

I already said I was like 10% serious when I voted you for being alive. Not enough to actually lynch you for it, enough to put my vote on you during RVS. Why are you asking me this?

Lane and Kuroi probably should do this also.

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:There was no qualifier on your vote --> I don't know how serious it is. I already told you, I don't play subtly. I can't read between the lines. (Probably why I suck at mafia so much, so maybe I should work on that.) I don't think us arguing about whether lane's reaction test worked or not will tell us anything about alignments, because I see it as more of a theory discussion than anything else, and we can all disagree about theory until the end of time regardless of alignments.

If Lane’s reaction test and everything surrounding it can’t tell us anything about alignments why do you think he made it in the first place?

Because either he thought it would as town or he was trying to find something that other people posted he could throw shade on/look like he was trying to get the game going as scum. I don't know which it is yet.

In post 835, lilith2013 wrote:I'm not really sure. Just something other than what you posted. Like I said, I think you are incredibly intelligent and the analysis you produced in D1 was very.. penetrating, for lack of a better word. I already said it could be because D1 you replaced in and produced a lot of content right away and the difference between that and RVS that's throwing me off. This post from you is already making me feel better, although there's something bothering me that I can't quite place. I'll probably end up rereading your D1 ISO to compare.

This is exactly why I am having trouble with your logic. Because clearly having 20 pages of content to chew on when I replaced in is significantly different levels of available data to make deductions from than RVS version 2.0.

that I could be being thrown off by the difference between RVS and replacing in. Like I said, my vote on you was half-serious (like half RVS, half not), because I feel like there is a difference in not the amount of content that you're producing, but rather something about you're coming across to me when you say it, that strikes me as different from your D1 posting. Like I also said, I haven't figured out what it is yet.

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:It's fine to be suspicious and examine the people on your wagon, I just think you're kind of overstating how big of a deal the wagon was. It was basically an RVS wagon ffs.

You are under-estimating the amount of information that can be gleaned from RVS wagons, especially ones that get to L-1. RVS wagons that form that strongly that early are going to have scum on them. Regardless of the components votes that make up the wagon. I can dig up any number of games to show you examples if you would like.

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:I already said I was like 10% serious when I voted you for being alive. Not enough to actually lynch you for it, enough to put my vote on you during RVS. Why are you asking me this?

I’m asking you because I want to establish with you (also Lane and Kuroi) how willing you are to stand by it as a scum-tell. I have reasons why I’m wanting that established but that will wait until I get a complete set of answers.

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:Because either he thought it would as town or he was trying to find something that other people posted he could throw shade on/look like he was trying to get the game going as scum. I don't know which it is yet.

Which is why I am asking Lane to elaborate on his thoughts myself and was very curious why you chose to attack my post where I started that line of thinking in the first place …

In post 838, MagnaofIllusion wrote:

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:It's fine to be suspicious and examine the people on your wagon, I just think you're kind of overstating how big of a deal the wagon was. It was basically an RVS wagon ffs.

You are under-estimating the amount of information that can be gleaned from RVS wagons, especially ones that get to L-1. RVS wagons that form that strongly that early are going to have scum on them. Regardless of the components votes that make up the wagon. I can dig up any number of games to show you examples if you would like.

Okay. I guess I don't disagree with you about the information thing, it just seems like you're making a big fuss without actually saying anything (but based on the rest of your post, you say you intend to say things about your wagon soon). But why would Joe or I be suspicious for being part of the wagon? We were there first. Unless you think I was seriously trying to push a lynch through on you based on almost no information. Even then, why would you think Joe is part of the suspicious pile for being first on an RVS wagon that he didn't push?

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:I already said I was like 10% serious when I voted you for being alive. Not enough to actually lynch you for it, enough to put my vote on you during RVS. Why are you asking me this?

I’m asking you because I want to establish with you (also Lane and Kuroi) how willing you are to stand by it as a scum-tell. I have reasons why I’m wanting that established but that will wait until I get a complete set of answers.

Okay. Waiting for you to get back to me on this after they answer, then. How will what the three of us say be alignment indicative?

In post 837, lilith2013 wrote:Because either he thought it would as town or he was trying to find something that other people posted he could throw shade on/look like he was trying to get the game going as scum. I don't know which it is yet.

Which is why I am asking Lane to elaborate on his thoughts myself and was very curious why you chose to attack my post where I started that line of thinking in the first place …

Because it sounded like you were just defending yourself to me. I didn't get that this was your thought process (again, probably because you are way too subtle for me).

Whoops, not defending yourself, that part came later. I guess like, overly nitpicky?

In post 839, lilith2013 wrote:Okay. Waiting for you to get back to me on this after they answer, then. How will what the three of us say be alignment indicative?

It's possible. I'd rather see Lane and Kuroi's response before we have any more discussion.

In post 839, lilith2013 wrote:Okay. I guess I don't disagree with you about the information thing, it just seems like you're making a big fuss without actually saying anything (but based on the rest of your post, you say you intend to say things about your wagon soon). But why would Joe or I be suspicious for being part of the wagon? We were there first. Unless you think I was seriously trying to push a lynch through on you based on almost no information. Even then, why would you think Joe is part of the suspicious pile for being first on an RVS wagon that he didn't push?

I was listing the wagon in full. Java is by far the least likely of you just on wagon formation – his was an RVS vote and he wasn’t posting during the quick run-up. Your push does look fishy to me in that it has been on multiple angles that at best I’d characterize as weak (me being alive, the single post to Lane that you’ve said is basically ‘gut’) and for someone who says she doesn’t play subtly you made enough of a show of it being a real vote that Lane was willing to hop on combined with his weak argument.

I’m not elaborating more on Lane and Kuroi until they weigh in.

I'm about as subtle as an oncoming train.

I'll also wait until lane and kuroi respond to say the rest of what I want to say.

Here are my thoughts.

- I think the speed-lynch on MoI is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as he thinks. Lilith brought up a good point. I felt it was enough for a vote, but not enough for a lynch. That's why I backed out.
- I find Clumsy to be obvious scum on Earth One and Telltale to be obvious town on Earth One. Switch those, and that's Earth Two. (Except I wouldn't call Telltale obvious scum. He's definitely lean scum, though.)
- Lane I'm waffling on. He's probably town on Earth One, but definitely not Earth Two.
- Lilith I kind of want to vote, but it's giving me worries that I'm scum reading everyone.
- MoI should have been voted for not producing his usual insight, but not for existing. Not on essentially Day One of Earth Two.

What about me/lane/TTH has been scummy so far?

What about clumsy is obvtown to you?

Also I forgot there was another reason I voted you before and I still kind of want to vote you for it but I want to look at it again first.

In post 843, KuroiXHF wrote:- MoI should have been voted for not producing his usual insight, but not for existing. Not on essentially Day One of Earth Two.

What insight are you expecting again? I’d really like you to explain that in some detail given your vote on me said the following –

In post 752, KuroiXHF wrote:This as as minor as they are and I'm sure it can change

considering how early it is on essentially, a different day one...

VOTE: MoI

In post 846, lilith2013 wrote:Also I forgot there was another reason I voted you before and I still kind of want to vote you for it but I want to look at it again first.

Must I ISO everyone here?

In post 847, MagnaofIllusion wrote:

In post 843, KuroiXHF wrote:- MoI should have been voted for not producing his usual insight, but not for existing. Not on essentially Day One of Earth Two.

What insight are you expecting again?

It's really more consistency - the consistency of your insight.

I’d really like you to explain that in some detail given your vote on me said the following –

In post 752, KuroiXHF wrote:This as as minor as they are and I'm sure it can change

considering how early it is on essentially, a different day one...

VOTE: MoI

I meant to say minor as they come, as in this is the most minor thing I could find that would warrant a lynch, and the bar isn't high for a vote on Day ones even though it's a different Day One - a day one on Earth Two.

In post 848, KuroiXHF wrote:It's really more consistency - the consistency of your insight.

Um can you say this not in Gobbledegook, the official language of the citizens of Gobbledy?