I would disagree on the obv town being town priority tho. Catching mafia should imo be number one priority.
It really shouldn't and I don't have the energy to explain why coherently or in much detail right now. Maybe another day.
Essentially, though, you should be looking at the game from the following perspective: 8 slots in the game whose alignment you don't know, each with a 75% chance of being town, 3 mislynches before mafia overrun the town. That means if you correctly lock in townreads on 5 slots (and there's only a baseline 25% chance that you can be wrong on it in the first place), you can close your eyes lynch every other slot in the game and you'll win as town.
Now imagine you just forego townreads and only focus on scumreads. What do you do when you reach 5p LyLo with no townreads and 2 mafia alive? You curl up in a ball and cry, that's what. Because if you have no townreads you have no basis from which to solve the game, you have no one who to talk to who you can trust, and it's going to be incredibly easy for the mafia team to manipulate you into a mislynch.
sorry isn't the point on scumhunt focused play so you don't end up in lylo having mislynched a bunch of people with 2 mafia alive?
i could see the advantage of townhunt and then PoE, but then I feel like there would be a dependency on investigative roles to solve.
I would say Eragon and Trinity are null/weak town, and Iceman is town.
I'm starting to think WhyMafia is scum, though - partly based on things stan1ey did, partly based on some of his catch-up posts and vote progression. I'll try to elaborate more on this read later, but it feels solid enough to vote for him.
In post 785, OkaPoka wrote:getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today
I don't think I could possibly disagree with this sentiment more than I do.
Your most important job as town, the number 1 thing on your to-do list, your first and highest priority, if you do one thing and absolutely nothing else in the game, should be to clear yourself as town to the rest of town.
You don't have to catch all the mafia. You don't have to catch ANY mafia. If you clear yourself as town, if the rest of town is able to see you as town, you've done your job, that's good enough.
I disagree with this. The way I play, my #1 priority is to help sort people. That way, even if I get mislynched or nightkilled, I've still contributed to helping other townies. If I did put being obvtown above hunting, then if I ended up at MYLO or LYLO and didn't have any good reads, that just makes it hard for me to help win the game. Plus, I'm genuinely not sure how to be obvtown, because that's dependent upon the specific players in the game and what they think is obvtown. Case in point, your renewed(?) scum read on me - which I'll address in my next post - when I feel like I've been as transparent (and transparency is towny, right?) as I can be.
In post 785, OkaPoka wrote:getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today
God I read this post again and I'm like.
This is, to a T, 100%, exactly what scum mindset looks like.
All scum need each dayphase is to dodge the lynch, be a little more town than someone else, make someone else look scummier than they are.
I just don't know whether OkaPoka is actually scum for saying it.
Like, can he really be having that thought as town here? Can he honestly think that it's not important for me or anyone else to get a townread on him?
It's like, kind of inherent to our condition as town to want to be townread. We don't like people thinking we're mafia, getting our alignment wrong. It feels bad. But Oka just... doesn't care?
This is like. Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf type territory, which is all through his ISO, not just this post. And at a certain point I think like... well, maybe he is actually just a wolf?
Ugh.
From my perspective, I don't care that much about being town read, either. I mean, it sucks to be scum read, but if I get mislynched, my alignment will be revealed and people will look back over my posts, and if I've hunted well enough, maybe I can still help solve the game. I also feel like trying so hard to be town read can be a little scummy, because I feel like scum have even more motivation to be town read than town - if they can get locktowned, they've basically won the game (I would know, this is basically how town lost my first newbie game). So, yeah, it's important to be town read, but some people have a hard time being town read and are better at hunting.
Rather than trying to funnel everyone into doing this one thing, why not encourage people to play the best version of their own games? I mean, there's no one right way to play mafia, right?
In post 701, Flicker wrote:Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)
I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.
I never said I had Quick as a slight town read, though. I said maybe, if I had to choose which of Quick and Formerfish was town in a TvS situation, I'd say Quick, but that was such a weak read I capped it off with "I don't know" and a big shrug emoji.
And I would have been salty because I feel like I've been putting in a lot of work and not getting townread. It doesn't have anything to do with me disagreeing with the read.
In post 817, nancy wrote:I can't make heads or tails of the Flicker post. I can't tell if it's just that she's a newb and is reading into things in a really strange way or if it's that she has a ton of TMI and I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to try right now.
@Flicker I really need you to be more present. You have less posts than the mod right now and that's really not okay. I really need more from you here because I think you might be mafia and there's just enough for me to go off to see that you're town if you are here. You don't have to make wallposts. Your posts don't have to be truthbombs or full of gems. Just a bit of thread presence and sharing your thoughts on things that are happening would go a long way.
I'm gonna be honest, the first time I read this it really hurt my feelings. I said in my intro post that I'm lower activity and tend towards wallposts, and I feel like you're just attacking me based on my play style and the fact that I can't post when you're around (which is basically 100% when I'm asleep). I'm also not trying to post "truthbombs" or anything like that, I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible.
FWIW, my posting window right now is between 10 AM CDT and 2 PM CDT, and the only person who's been around during that time is Oka, whom I've engaged with a little - clearly not enough for you, but I am trying. I guess I could also try posting in the evening, when Formerfish and Quick seem to always get on, but usually I'm busy or I've depleted my energy for playing mafia earlier in the day. I can make more of an effort to break up my wall posts into more manageable chunks, but I'm not gonna upend my life for this, so if you just wanna policy lynch me for not playing well enough or whatever, go ahead.
In post 701, Flicker wrote:Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)
I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.
I never said I had Quick as a slight town read, though. I said maybe, if I had to choose which of Quick and Formerfish was town in a TvS situation, I'd say Quick, but that was such a weak read I capped it off with "I don't know" and a big shrug emoji.
And I would have been salty because I feel like I've been putting in a lot of work and not getting townread. It doesn't have anything to do with me disagreeing with the read.
In post 817, nancy wrote:I can't make heads or tails of the Flicker post. I can't tell if it's just that she's a newb and is reading into things in a really strange way or if it's that she has a ton of TMI and I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to try right now.
@Flicker I really need you to be more present. You have less posts than the mod right now and that's really not okay. I really need more from you here because I think you might be mafia and there's just enough for me to go off to see that you're town if you are here. You don't have to make wallposts. Your posts don't have to be truthbombs or full of gems. Just a bit of thread presence and sharing your thoughts on things that are happening would go a long way.
I'm gonna be honest, the first time I read this it really hurt my feelings. I said in my intro post that I'm lower activity and tend towards wallposts, and I feel like you're just attacking me based on my play style and the fact that I can't post when you're around (which is basically 100% when I'm asleep). I'm also not trying to post "truthbombs" or anything like that, I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible.
FWIW, my posting window right now is between 10 AM CDT and 2 PM CDT, and the only person who's been around during that time is Oka, whom I've engaged with a little - clearly not enough for you, but I am trying. I guess I could also try posting in the evening, when Formerfish and Quick seem to always get on, but usually I'm busy or I've depleted my energy for playing mafia earlier in the day. I can make more of an effort to break up my wall posts into more manageable chunks, but I'm not gonna upend my life for this, so if you just wanna policy lynch me for not playing well enough or whatever, go ahead.
I like this post from you Flicker, it seems open and also expresses some of how I’m feeling too. I for one would appreciate shorter posts as i can’t seem to be able concentrate properly on the long ones
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:38 am
by OkaPoka
TRINITY! I need some quotes in which you think I've made some bad responses to some questions posed by others that you find so horrible. I also want you to go in detail why my case on you is weak.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:40 am
by Micc
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:43 am
by WhyMafia
I await your case flicker ; D
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:44 am
by WhyMafia
And boy are we indecisive lmao
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:44 am
by OkaPoka
def something is off. rather than consolidating into a few wagons we are splitting apart as time progresses
In post 701, Flicker wrote:Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)
I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.
I never said I had Quick as a slight town read, though. I said maybe, if I had to choose which of Quick and Formerfish was town in a TvS situation, I'd say Quick, but that was such a weak read I capped it off with "I don't know" and a big shrug emoji.
And I would have been salty because I feel like I've been putting in a lot of work and not getting townread. It doesn't have anything to do with me disagreeing with the read.
In post 817, nancy wrote:I can't make heads or tails of the Flicker post. I can't tell if it's just that she's a newb and is reading into things in a really strange way or if it's that she has a ton of TMI and I don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to try right now.
@Flicker I really need you to be more present. You have less posts than the mod right now and that's really not okay. I really need more from you here because I think you might be mafia and there's just enough for me to go off to see that you're town if you are here. You don't have to make wallposts. Your posts don't have to be truthbombs or full of gems. Just a bit of thread presence and sharing your thoughts on things that are happening would go a long way.
I'm gonna be honest, the first time I read this it really hurt my feelings. I said in my intro post that I'm lower activity and tend towards wallposts, and I feel like you're just attacking me based on my play style and the fact that I can't post when you're around (which is basically 100% when I'm asleep). I'm also not trying to post "truthbombs" or anything like that, I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible.
FWIW, my posting window right now is between 10 AM CDT and 2 PM CDT, and the only person who's been around during that time is Oka, whom I've engaged with a little - clearly not enough for you, but I am trying. I guess I could also try posting in the evening, when Formerfish and Quick seem to always get on, but usually I'm busy or I've depleted my energy for playing mafia earlier in the day. I can make more of an effort to break up my wall posts into more manageable chunks, but I'm not gonna upend my life for this, so if you just wanna policy lynch me for not playing well enough or whatever, go ahead.
I like this post from you Flicker, it seems open and also expresses some of how I’m feeling too. I for one would appreciate shorter posts as i can’t seem to be able concentrate properly on the long ones
Agree with his sentiment - I get distracted easily when I read long mafia posts, it's nothing against you. I liked the size of your catch-up posts - if that would be the general-ish size it would be very appreciated : D. In other news, I like Flicker's responses, and am town leaning her.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:49 am
by WhyMafia
In post 835, OkaPoka wrote:def something is off. rather than consolidating into a few wagons we are splitting apart as time progresses
I don't think it's significant yet, but there might be some juicy VCA later
In post 757, WhyMafia wrote:Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null
What sort of content would you like to see from me?
Hmm. Can you elaborate on your switch from FF? What specifically caused you to slowly change your mind about FF? What are some other general observations you made about slots? Individually I like your posts. However, I in the grand scheme, you seem to be ... kinda aimless? I don't see you doing anything meaningful per say. I don't see your thirst to figure out if your SR on Oka is correct. I guess ... I don't see your motivations, if that makes sense? Because you're active on the thread, but I don't see you stirring up the pot.
If you had to give the difference(s) between your Town game and Scum game, what would they be?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:20 am
by OkaPoka
Hey Quick, could you give me a consolidated and updated post on what makes you feel so strongly about FF with quotes and explanation and stuff? I know its a lot to ask but I'm doing some revisiting of reads and want to see what you think.
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:38 am
by Quick
In post 842, OkaPoka wrote:Hey Quick, could you give me a consolidated and updated post on what makes you feel so strongly about FF with quotes and explanation and stuff? I know its a lot to ask but I'm doing some revisiting of reads and want to see what you think.
I might be able to get to that tomorrow. RN, I am spent because I didn't get any sleep and intellectual stuff like that rn seems like a GD chore (which is not my usual - usually I love doing that shit).
In post 748, Formerfish wrote:Because Oka hasnt asked for it yet. Its not that you didnt do it, its that you wouldnt do it when someone asked. If Oka needs more info from me on hose reads to satisfy his curiosity then he can ask. If I refuse then itd be like you and scummy. However that situation hasnt taken place yet so...
Also legit question. When you find out im town, where do you go from there?
Ninja- naw bro, using confbias to add to my scum read of you is not the same.
You are the one who was pushing me for not giving examples. So what makes you think who asked you what would be satisfied without examples? On the one hand, you are arguing that I am Scummy for not providing examples, which shows that you agree examples are necessary, otherwise there is no reason to bring it up in the first place. On the other hand, you are not providing examples yourself and basically representing that an overview of play is how you personally operate. So then why am I Scummy for operating in the same way that you are? You are looking for EXCUSES to SR me.
Bro. Stop acting like what happened is the same. Its not. Your insistence here is starting to tell a story thats not going to be able to be untold.
You said a thing about someone. Someone else asked you to expand on it. You declined.
Someone asked me a question. I answered it. They have yet to say if that answer was satisfactory to them or not. Once they do then the conversation Oka and I are having will go from there.
See the difference?
And I really would love to not see scum in your play so that I can get away from you for a bit, but unfortunately the way you
are
playing is scummy to me and I am going to push that here.
I think its the comments like this that come off as desperate to me. Like someone trying to fit in based off 80's information. Like it seems legit, but something is off about it.
Is this a legit question? Are you asking nancy the player or nancy the IC?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 pm
by Formerfish
In post 779, OkaPoka wrote:as for FF im pretty sure he is town because interactions and the fact that he left my wagon for a pretty low potential wagon but I have still have a running theory on reading him that is going to need more time to resolve itself
i guess i dont really make sense, at that time i was thinking ff had a good chance of being scum, then i thought to myself there are more scummy people ahead of him so meh probably not
You had mentioned something that either was playing out or could play out that would have helped you figure out my alignment. Care to talk about that more?
In post 779, OkaPoka wrote:as for FF im pretty sure he is town because interactions and the fact that he left my wagon for a pretty low potential wagon but I have still have a running theory on reading him that is going to need more time to resolve itself
i guess i dont really make sense, at that time i was thinking ff had a good chance of being scum, then i thought to myself there are more scummy people ahead of him so meh probably not
You had mentioned something that either was playing out or could play out that would have helped you figure out my alignment. Care to talk about that more?
In post 748, Formerfish wrote:Because Oka hasnt asked for it yet. Its not that you didnt do it, its that you wouldnt do it when someone asked. If Oka needs more info from me on hose reads to satisfy his curiosity then he can ask. If I refuse then itd be like you and scummy. However that situation hasnt taken place yet so...
Also legit question. When you find out im town, where do you go from there?
Ninja- naw bro, using confbias to add to my scum read of you is not the same.
You are the one who was pushing me for not giving examples. So what makes you think who asked you what would be satisfied without examples? On the one hand, you are arguing that I am Scummy for not providing examples, which shows that you agree examples are necessary, otherwise there is no reason to bring it up in the first place. On the other hand, you are not providing examples yourself and basically representing that an overview of play is how you personally operate. So then why am I Scummy for operating in the same way that you are? You are looking for EXCUSES to SR me.
Bro. Stop acting like what happened is the same. Its not. Your insistence here is starting to tell a story thats not going to be able to be untold.
You said a thing about someone. Someone else asked you to expand on it. You declined.
Someone asked me a question. I answered it. They have yet to say if that answer was satisfactory to them or not. Once they do then the conversation Oka and I are having will go from there.
See the difference?
And I really would love to not see scum in your play so that I can get away from you for a bit, but unfortunately the way you
are
playing is scummy to me and I am going to push that here.
