In post 811, Loki Dokie wrote:I think there are two ways to approach the gladiate. Try to determine as best we can which of either is more likely to be scum or if we think they both could possibly be town, attempt to then determine, which one is more likely to become potential misexecute bait later on and possibly cost us the game with their misexecute.
I’m not currently scumreading either but I disagree with Kanna in that I find Isis to be a little townier but this could also be based on playstyle. I think if Pooky plays similarly in the next post-restricted phase, should there be one, he might be in this situation again, so I’d like to see some more awareness on his part about how he was perceived and why.
@Pooky, do you understand why Drusilla scumread you on D1? I suppose I should also ask Isis about why she thinks she was condemned on D2,
Basically, both of you were condemned for a reason. You both were preceived to have played the scummiest from most of the playerlist on the different respective days, irrespective of your actual alignments. So understanding of how and why you both found yourselves that situation, and thoughts about how you might handle things differently should we have another post-restrictive phase would be extremely helpful. Simply assuming whosever pushing or doubting you to be scum isn’t helping either of you but clearly understanding how your posting contributed to you getting condemned and how you would proceed differently are probably the most helpful things either of you can do, to help us sort you your play here, either as possible alignment or potential misexecutebait. Because if neither of you do that, I’m afraid who ever survives the gladiate might be re-condemned for pretty much the same reasons.
This is a good post
I think when making reads is difficult, proxy voting with a townread is a strong strategy that just so happens to mimic a powerful scum strategy (with one errant townie you create this pseudoscumteam of 3 players instead of 2 that votes way better). So it makes sense that I got scumread. I was accepting that risk.
If I'm actually selected and people will townlock drusilla after, I'm similarly content. I think drusilla is town here. Her mindset for phase two was similar to mine and she's not using any means of simplifying her argument with Pooky to make it easier for her, she's kind of taking the argument the hard way because she cares so much about the core points.
I would be sad to be wrong on this read. Trying to read shiki is fun
I agree, it looks likes she’s sincerely trying to solve Pooky. Ydrasse is also a strong townread. What about your Kanna read, you don’t think she’s honestly trying to sort you? While I didn’t agree with her, I didn’t find what she was doing is scummy. I like how she’s engaging with Drusilla.
In post 818, Isis wrote:I feel worried Pooky cares about winning an argument more than being town in the argument if that makes sense, its somewhat mafia indicative
This is kind of strange. Why would it make sense for a Pooky!scum to want to win an argument? It doesn't help my position in any way - arguing is usually counterproductive to survival especially in a setting like this where it's 1 or the other.
It's empirical so I don't put a burden on it to make sense, but it's because winning arguments is something scum can be good at, genuinely expressing the alignment they would like to express, cannot be done. So it's a real trend. When I roll scum I have an urge to want to win arguments and be right also. I just finished a game where Chara caught my scumpartner Hectic doing it and concurrently in the scum PT you can see me contemperaneously making that assessment of his play.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:22 am
by Isis
I like Kanna
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:30 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 827, Isis wrote:It's empirical so I don't put a burden on it to make sense, but it's because winning arguments is something scum can be good at, genuinely expressing the alignment they would like to express, cannot be done. So it's a real trend. When I roll scum I have an urge to want to win arguments and be right also. I just finished a game where Chara caught my scumpartner Hectic doing it and concurrently in the scum PT you can see me contemperaneously making that assessment of his play.
I can see scum trying to win an argument to push back on their accuser in a normal setup but given the one-way setup here I don't think it makes sense for Pooky!scum to do that.
In post 818, Isis wrote:I feel worried Pooky cares about winning an argument more than being town in the argument if that makes sense, its somewhat mafia indicative
Some of his earlier play has seemed town indicative though.
It feels wonky trying to decide how I'm grading with the context of the gladiator, maybe it's better to try to always think with the assumption I lost and "play from there"
I'm not trying to win an argument versus Dru - it's not like she get get elim'd today. I'm planning how the game will go on from here assuming I get Elim'd today. I think her push on me was terrible and I need people to see that so she doesn't just do it again to someone else and I need to sort her slot so I know whether to recommend her elim on the following day.
Why is it “terrible”? And even if you disagree with it, why does that make her scum as opposed to just wrong? I think she’s waiting for the same thing I am, for you to acknowledge that it’s not illogical for her to question the disparity between posting cute gifs and being more concerned about the votes than anyone else. It’s kind of frustrating to me that you can’t even see her point. If you did but maintain she’s wrong to scumread you, I’d feel better but you’re responding as if her reasoning makes no sense, when it clearly does. It obviously doesn’t mean she’s necessarily right but her reasoning is valid and reads town indicative to me.
it doesn't make her scum - that's why I said I'm trying to sort her slot.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:38 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
the harder you attack someone on their base argument and you can see how they defend it , there is usually a difference between how scum and town defend their cases on people. this game is peculiar because I'm sort of questioning her from beyond the grave almost.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:39 am
by Isis
Pooky why would ticking off drusilla matter, she's so unlikely to be a swing vote.
It makes you look good in general
Being mechanically unable to vote her isn't relevant, the tell happens tons of places without a vote on the other player, and the example that came to mind didn't have a vote either iirc
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:41 am
by Loki Dokie
In post 825, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I did rethink that. that's why I didn't vote for you in the second Condemn phase...
When did you change your opinion because it might have possibly changed my vote had you responded to my “why” question on D1.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:48 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 834, Isis wrote:Pooky why would ticking off drusilla matter, she's so unlikely to be a swing vote.
It's not really just about 1 vote,
Dru is a very good player who has a lot of pull - she writes excellent posts that are very persuasive - as she demonstrated during the post restricted phase.
If I were trying to survive I would be trying to buddy up to her, not challenge her directly like this.
She keeps saying the things I would expect her to be thinking about if I were in her position. It could be good emulation, if so she's doing good. It's a win-win because she would have to believe she's good at scum then heehee
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:58 am
by Isis
I guess fooling one person isn't everything but I savor the irony
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:59 am
by Isis
You've had different experiences with shiki than I have, generally she makes brilliant posts and then we all ignore her
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:00 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 840, Isis wrote:You've had different experiences with shiki than I have, generally she makes brilliant posts and then we all ignore her
This is my first game with shiki as far as I can remember. I apologize if I've forgotten a game we've had together.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
In post 839, Isis wrote:I guess fooling one person isn't everything but I savor the irony
are you trying to fool me ?
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 am
by Isis
But in any case a wine swapping exercise doesn't rank as highly for me as a bayesian scumtell I find reliable so I'm just not super deterred.
Going up against RC directly is a pain so like 20% of the time that's why you should do it. Mafia is wifom etc
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:02 am
by Isis
I was saying kanna is fooling me
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:03 am
by Isis
It's a hard sell to me that shiki's play just this game is so so threatening you wouldn't fight her
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:07 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
what would Pooky!scum gain from fighting shiki?
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:18 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
Let's say Pooky is scum, if he fights Dru and convinces everyone that Dru is bad, what's the next thing that happens?
Pooky would still get elim'd today - because Dru-Isis doesn't make a lot of sense as a pairing - and when Pooky flips scum there would be no point to fighting Dru.
Unless it's a Pooky/Dru mafia team and Pooky is going for some ridiculous gambit. But that's not really happening here.
My goal in arguing with Dru isn't about who's right - I'm trying to sort her slot to get an idea as to whether your slot is scum.
but i want to point out you DEFINITELY need to look at drusilla if isis is scum. her trajectory today + trying to wagon plus yesterday instead of isis yesterday would be very fishy indeed
