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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:41 pm
by mc esther
In post 815, Bingle wrote:Now you have me slightly curious. That’s my origins. I’m jingle, used to hang around site chat most of the time, had a few very active hydrae, was involved with pretty much every game that had the ETL/Antihero crowd.
i cant be sure i never played with any of your hydrae, but no i dont have any games with jingle; i do know ive played with an antihero hydra before, but i think just once. i played with klick, psyche, and rainbowdash (always the rbd alt, never llamafluff's main) a few times and remember them moderately well, but didnt really have a regular crowd because i had a couple of hiatuses and didnt play a huge number of games during any of my periods of activity.

____________________

i dont really get where auro's coming from at all, but it also doesnt sound like a made-up excuse, it sounds like something i just dont get.

still waiting on part two of guiltylion's post, but apparently i miscounted lickety votes.

VOTE: licketyquickety

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:13 pm
by Roden
UNVOTE:

I've changed my mind on LQ. I thought they were scum for multiple reasons, the biggest being how dishonest he was in his argument with me and how bad faith his case against me was. But I've been scum with him before and I'm hesitant to believe he'd get in a shit fight with me when that's gotten him elim'd before. Like I just don't I understand why he'd put himself out there like that, there's no reason for it.

LQ can you tell me who your top five scum reads are? The only thing I'm worried about at this point is that you're only on the defensive right now. Town!you seems to be a lot more paranoid and more willing to scum read a handful of people at a time. But you're not really making any significant pushes and your "gotcha!" attempt on Bingle was weird.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:21 pm
by Roden
I also town read Galron T3 and GL. Galron is a gut read based on how he reacted to my wagon, T3 because he doesn't metabad as scum, and GL just because logically they are sound and care more about being right than actually winning this game.

So to me the scum teams are somewhere within Enchant, Pav, Bingle, Darby, Auro, and Esther. I think we have the strongest chance of hitting scum if we vote within those first three names today.

VOTE: Enchant

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:31 pm
by mc esther
this actually strengthens my read on lickety. i asked earlier whether he was likely to know that he could bait you into that sort of fight, the fact that the answer is "yes" definitely makes me believe he was intentionally trying to clog up the thread.

i do think enchant is a decent wagon (although, it's complicated!), but i'd much rather lickety.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:23 pm
by Auro
In post 825, mc esther wrote:i dont really get where auro's coming from at all, but it also doesnt sound like a made-up excuse, it sounds like something i just dont get.
Are you talking about my apparent "detachment" or my "playing to the audience"?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm
by mc esther
your detachment. your playing to an audience is very relatable and i wholeheartedly approve.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:10 pm
by GuiltyLion
aight, I'm back to finish this up

I was just rereading
mc esther
in ISO and I've decided I like her a lot more as a townread than I was feeling yesterday - the main impression that I was worried about with her was that I can't shake the feeling that she's playing things a bit safe, always posting Reasonable Theory Analysis Takes but not putting herself out there to push reads too aggressively. However, rereading things today with fresh eyes, I see a lot of indicators I usually like for town - a couple major seemingly organic reads reversals from beginning of game to present moment (Pav going from scumread to D2 locktown, Enchant devolving from D1 townread to a D2 vote), similar to my Bingle townread strikes me as a thought process that's unlikely to be faked by scum - lamenting a botched opportunity to pressure Pav in a more direct manner, the low-key T3 townread on D1 I don't see benefitting a scum agenda when T3 is an easy slot to fake a scumread on. I also think the pillars of her scumread on Lickety (Lickety's flip flopping uncertainty on his Roden SR, especially with Lickety being mistaken about the timing of when Roden disappeared and when LQ's scumread was 'reinforced') are genuine. I was feeling paranoid here earlier this day phase but I'm thinking now any paranoia is better directe4d elsewhere.

on
Pav
- I'm having a hard time knowing how to feel about his laid back tonal style. I think if I'm being honest I probably I just tend to reflexively scumread it because I always worry about scum using charisma / "I'm just having fun here man" vibes to get away with not really putting themselves out there. same reason I always scumread Aristophanes if any of y'all have played with him before, and The Dude avatar probably doesn't help :D. Actually re-ISOing Pav again now, I'm back to thinking in terms of his actual content, he feels pretty townie. I like a lot, it gets to the point what was questionable about what LQ posted but without stirring up any additional drama to push LQ. I think with some time to reflect on it that the fact that he completely missed what I was accusing him of slipping in his is pure, as if he
had
slipped any knowledge he'd surely understand what I was talking about the first time. his and are good posts.

so that brings me to the two people I'd be willing to vote right now:

LicketyQuickety
- I think my biggest issue with Lickety is that at times it feels like he's going through the effort of
telling
the thread how he is thinking, instead of just actually
thinking
. ("I feel you are being manipulative, but if you explain I will move on"), (the unprompted addition of "I'm not scumreading Auro because I expect him to do this as scum"), (why is he saying both that T3's read is weird but also that he agrees with it??), I hadn't noticed this previously but using "until" in that post when presumably he meant "unless" is an odd mistake, feels super stiff and as Pav called out is really dubious because he's basically inviting Roden to be townread if Roden backs off his LQ push. That mindset feels a lot more likely to come from someone who wants to defuse the fight rather than someone who actually thinks Roden might be scum.

is a tremendously uninspiring readslist. While I know town!LQ often has weird takes, I don't remember ever seeing him post something so surface level. And the way he specifically picks only Galron to scumread feels non-confrontational towards his other nulls and very forced. and are weirdly timid in terms of being willing to vote T3, and is super WIFOMy - he's trying to imply mc esther is ignoring the Obvious Town Reasoning behind "what he's doing", but he's not actually explaining why he's doing what he's doing. Like there's no effort to sell mc esther on his Bingle suspicions here, just defensiveness. Same issue with his - says Roden's suspicion on him is for NAI reasons, but doesn't have any apparent drive to explain why those reasons are applying to his town game here.

and saying he'll step up his effort over night but he's not going to bother to do it now if he's going to get limmed is a scummy move, as if we're being unfair expecting him to "put in work", and purposefully dangling a carrot of Actual LQ Effort to bargain us to lim somewhere else. It's also odd that despite that he then also promises to do something tomorrow in the very next sentence.

as for
Enchant
- they didn't vote on D1 at all after voting DArby in , I didn't like their posting around the Salsa wagon EOD - encouraged it along and said they were tempted to hammer, but also then said they had her as town and bet she flips green - if they were invested in his Salsa townread they should have done more to push elsewhere when all they did was goad for a Salsa lim. The DArby scumread on D2 lacks any conviction whatsoever when DArby is basically the most universally townread player, and Enchant has not mentioned or interacted with LQ in any substantive sense whatsoever outside of his vote there today. I don't see anything in the entire ISO that makes me think there's a solvey town intent behind anything they've posted.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:23 pm
by GuiltyLion
VOTE: Enchant

all that being said, I want to feel decent about LQ/Enchant scumreads to go with my Bingle/DArby/now-mc Esther townreads, but I really don't like the fact that every significant scumread I've felt has coincided with wagons on those players -without- me doing a ton to push them, I worry that I am being snowed by a deep scum. Right now I want to run through Enchant/LQ flips and reassess the {Galron, T3, Pav, Auro} pool afterwards, but I'm feeling iffy about all 4 scum being in those 6 names.

On Enchant-LQ together, I sanity checked associatives between the two but don't see anything that makes me think they can't be aligned together.

Also, coming back to for Bingle - I think my main tl;dr takeaways is that I don't see anything inherently wrong with mc esther townreading me for trying to effort with respect to LQ/Roden fight, and if I'm being a little tinfoily I could see Auro's question as a bit of potential shit-stirring, though it's not egregious. I was hoping Auro might follow up on that post to say if he himself thinks mc esther's townread on me was shallow, but didn't get anything on that front

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:24 pm
by GuiltyLion
anyway sorry for all the ~words~, I'm rambling a lot this game to compensate for a lot of uncertainty and lack of confidence. multi-ball is hard yo I forgot how much having two scum factions changes the dynamic

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:28 pm
by Bingle
In post 827, Roden wrote:T3 because he doesn't metabad as scum
:giggle:

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:30 pm
by Bingle
In post 831, GuiltyLion wrote:Like there's no effort to sell mc esther on his Bingle suspicions here, just defensiveness.
Actually, this is pretty interesting.

LQ, you had no issues calling me on my shit in the Jester game. Why aren't you doing so here?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:42 pm
by mc esther
in addition to guiltylion's comprehensive (though imo, slightly overstated) case against enchant: we're potentially heading into some pretty tight m/elo-like situations very soon (multiball makes it more complicated than that, but you get me -- miselim in 2:2:5 might not strictly be an autoloss, but i'd rather not find out lmao) and i see value in getting lurkers out of the way now rather than trying to reason through them when it really matters.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: enchant

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:53 pm
by Auro
In post 818, Auro wrote:Either way, this setup is really fun (4 scum out of 11 alive, with two opposing factions, with a compulsive vig/doc, it's wild) and I'd like to lim people expressing disinterest and handing out uninteresting/shallow takes.
Yeah^

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 pm
by Salsabil Faria
Mod
gave the permission in late:

B
A
A
H!

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:58 pm
by DArby
In post 707, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 638, Pavowski wrote:So either everyone targeted A50 or only Team Fire did
and somebody else got doc's and frozen
, right?

Seems more likely monkey got tripled up
In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 647, Bingle wrote:I don't think this can have a drawback for asking publicly given how obvious a question it is, so:

@mod: Are death flavors indicative of who made the kill? If they are, what are the specific flavors for a Fire Kill, an Ice Kill, a Doc Kill, and an all three kill?


NM should be able (have to actually) answer that because this is an open.
Yes death flavours are indicative. Ice Mafia is
Frozen
, Fire Mafia is
Incinerated
and a CPR Doc kill is
Shocked
. If all three were to target a player, the fire and ice mafia kills would cancel out and the CPR Doc would kill the player. I will add this to the rules section.

Pav - how did you know the Ice Team's flavor was "frozen" specifically? I don't recall seeing that anywhere prior to N_M editing the posts.
Tbf I kinda pieced that together myself.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:01 pm
by Roden
In post 828, mc esther wrote:this actually strengthens my read on lickety. i asked earlier whether he was likely to know that he could bait you into that sort of fight, the fact that the answer is "yes" definitely makes me believe he was intentionally trying to clog up the thread.

i do think enchant is a decent wagon (although, it's complicated!), but i'd much rather lickety.
This is partially why I've changed my mind on him though. I think he'd try to avoid attention if he were scum, not get into a shit fight. But I do want to get some reads out of him before the Day ends in case I die tonight, since I don't want my final words to be incorrectly town locking him. Because I do think he's liable to shit fight as town but I feel like he should definitely be more paranoid about the rest of the player list. When I faced off as scum against town!LQ, he tried to figure out who I was teamed with when he scum read me and I'm just not seeing it from him this game.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:01 pm
by Auro
@GL: Not sure why stirring the pot is a bad thing; often, provocation can result in more interesting, readable states.

@mc esther: To clarify, I think GL recalled previous towngames of mine where I put in much more effort compared to this one. This setup is inherently chaotic and, if I might add, a bit difficult - I don't think there's much utility to putting in the same kinds of effort that I typically do as town. It's not that I don't care about the game or that I'm disinterested - I'm just not as *attached* to my reads as GL otherwise expects me to.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:03 pm
by Roden
In post 839, DArby wrote:
In post 707, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 638, Pavowski wrote:So either everyone targeted A50 or only Team Fire did
and somebody else got doc's and frozen
, right?

Seems more likely monkey got tripled up
In post 649, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 647, Bingle wrote:I don't think this can have a drawback for asking publicly given how obvious a question it is, so:

@mod: Are death flavors indicative of who made the kill? If they are, what are the specific flavors for a Fire Kill, an Ice Kill, a Doc Kill, and an all three kill?


NM should be able (have to actually) answer that because this is an open.
Yes death flavours are indicative. Ice Mafia is
Frozen
, Fire Mafia is
Incinerated
and a CPR Doc kill is
Shocked
. If all three were to target a player, the fire and ice mafia kills would cancel out and the CPR Doc would kill the player. I will add this to the rules section.

Pav - how did you know the Ice Team's flavor was "frozen" specifically? I don't recall seeing that anywhere prior to N_M editing the posts.
Tbf I kinda pieced that together myself.
I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to figure that out tbh.

What do you think of Pav's reaction?

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:11 pm
by Roden
In post 834, Bingle wrote:
In post 827, Roden wrote:T3 because he doesn't metabad as scum
:giggle:
Just realized this could be interpreted as mean-spirited. What I meant is that town!T3 uses meta and is fallible. Scum!T3 really just TMI's when he meta reads someone because he almost always meta reads townies as town to get town cred for himself. The one time I've seen him meta read somebody as scum, it was his scum buddy lol. When scum!T3 pushes somebody as a scum read and they're a townie it's almost never a meta read.

This is just my own analysis of his playstyle though, it isn't 100% accurate. But I can usually at the very least trust his town reads no matter his alignment.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:24 pm
by Auro
In post 842, Roden wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to figure that out tbh.
I don't think it is either, but I could see what GL sees to some part in the direct use of that word. Personally if I hadn't given it any thought I would've phrased it as "killed by the other faction", but Pavowski mentioning Team Fire explicitly earlier in his post suggests some thought to it.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:34 pm
by Roden
In post 260, LicketyQuickety wrote:This game I played with T3 and there's plenty of walls in my play there. I was Limmed D1 there so my play wasn't stellar, but it's another read that has me shaking my head going, "What? Do people even know how I play or what?"
Currently ISO diving everyone to see progression, and I will say that this leaves me scratching my head. I made the exact same appeal to LQ about the exact same game, and he just...unironically does the same thing that he said made me scum. Like I don't know how he doesn't see this.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:37 pm
by Roden
In post 844, Auro wrote:
In post 842, Roden wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to figure that out tbh.
I don't think it is either, but I could see what GL sees to some part in the direct use of that word. Personally if I hadn't given it any thought I would've phrased it as "killed by the other faction", but Pavowski mentioning Team Fire explicitly earlier in his post suggests some thought to it.
I don't disagree. Pav's reaction felt off to me but I haven't seen anyone else comment on that specifically yet. I don't want to give my opinion on it until others do though so I don't influence anyone.

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:45 pm
by Auro
In post 676, LicketyQuickety wrote: Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?
In post 681, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 680, Galron wrote:
In post 676, LicketyQuickety wrote:Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?
Oh, I missed that.
In post 746, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Also, someone explain why Roden is confirmed Town because I'm not getting that.
@Roden: leave that, he's not paying any attention to the game whatsoever lol

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:34 pm
by Roden
In post 847, Auro wrote:
In post 676, LicketyQuickety wrote: Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?
In post 681, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 680, Galron wrote:
In post 676, LicketyQuickety wrote:Wait. You are Conf Town? How so?
Oh, I missed that.
In post 746, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Also, someone explain why Roden is confirmed Town because I'm not getting that.
@Roden: leave that, he's not paying any attention to the game whatsoever lol
Image

I thought I was seeing deja vu in his posts lmao

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:12 pm
by Enchant
Why i am wagoned