FFVII Mafia: Over

[armlx]

I don't really understand why that's a scummy move, especially since Zac put xtoxom on L-1 with NO REASON!

Apparently, you didn't read D1. There was ample reason to put xtoxm at L-1.

And, under normal circumstances, one of xtoxm or myself would HAVE to be scum. Why lynch elsewhere when you have a 50% chance of lynching scum and 50% chance of 1 mislynch, 1 scum lynch right there.

[CarnCarn]

Unvote: iamusername

Vote: XToxm

[/i]

This was Zac (406), and he was blatantly bandwagoning. I just realized he was replaced, so

FoS: Natirasha

instead.

No reason given. Not even an attempt. That's pretty obviously anti-town behavior. Especially since xtoxm turned town.

As for why someone would want to avoid lynching either you or xtoxm. When I was doing my read thru, I never really thought xtoxm was scum. I was doubtful of his daycop claim (that is a hugely powerful role, and apparently rarely used in games), but he was dead on about his role. It never seemed like he was lying about his role and he had plenty of flavor to back up his claim. I know this is getting into the hypothetical, but I would not have voted xtoxm. If he didn't get lynched, he probably would have been night actioned up the wazzoo.

Using the same reasoning, I wouldn't have voted you either, because I would have doubted xtoxm's daycop ability. I keep getting a scummy vibe from you for assuming that everyone believed xtoxm's claim and it was clearly an either you or him lynch. I can't speak for CML's rationale, but this is how I would have seen it.

Right now, IGMEOY ABR, Natirasha, armlx.

[armlx]

Especially since xtoxm turned town.

I think you are mistaking the scenario. I'm pretty sure even scum expected xtoxm to flip scum there.

Pro-town players aren't supposed to lie. Obscuring of information only helps the most informed group (the mafia), and masks the people who have to lie anyways (also the mafia).

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Natirasha

[TonyMontana]

unvote, vote: Natirasha

FoS: MBL

[wolframnhart]

Pro-town players aren't supposed to lie. Obscuring of information only helps the most informed group (the mafia), and masks the people who have to lie anyways (also the mafia).

So in your words ABR is not pro-town and could be masking his role as a mafia since he has to lie?

[armlx]

So in your words ABR is not pro-town and could be masking his role as a mafia since he has to lie?

Again, I've explained how ABR is a case of extenuating circumstances. Like how pro-town players are supposed to use logic and be active, but you don't lynch DGB/Kscope/K7/MafiaSSK D1 every game.

[CarnCarn]

Again, I've explained how ABR is a case of extenuating circumstances. Like how pro-town players are supposed to use logic and be active, but you don't lynch DGB/Kscope/K7/MafiaSSK D1 every game.

You seem pretty certain that xtoxm was the correct lynch D1, even though he was town.

[Cephrir]

He was.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Natirasha

FoS: MBL

Hows abouts you spit us out an analysis of Zac's and Natirasha's posts, tiger?

[Natirasha]

unvote, vote: Natirasha

FoS: MBL

Hows abouts you spit us out an analysis of Zac's and Natirasha's posts, tiger?

And what has been wrong about my posts?

[Jebus]

Which makes me FoS: armlx

What's the connection?

FoS can mean two things for me. One is the literal meaning, one means "come back and look at this, it may be relevant sometime soon". This one happens to be number two.

[CarnCarn]

I'm surprised so many people think xtoxm was the correct lynch, even in retrospect (in a quick review back, I see that armlx, Cephrir, and Natirasha all agreed on that).
He was obviously lying about the daycop claim. Why would anyone with that powerful ability investigate in the random stage and make themselves an obvious target on D1?
His lying didn't mean he was scum, though. When asked for role and flavor info, he gave it accurately. I don't think he would have been able to do so if he was scum and just given Bugenhagen as a safeclaim (the flavor, I mean). This is why I wouldn't have voted him because his flavor info suggested he wasn't lying about his alignment, even if he was lying about his role (which is not automatically anti-town; in fact, I can see situations when it would be very much protown to lie about one's role).
Yes, I know the person I replaced, Westbrook, voted xtoxm, but I wouldn't have (sorry xtoxm, if you're out there reading this).
So to armlx: I doubt the scum really expected xtoxm to turn up scum.

ABR has provided little flavor info (something about jenovian capsules or something, and I don't know if that fits with his Cid claim; I'm not a FF expert/fan if you can't tell).

[armlx]

CarnCarn, what flavor are you talking about? The whole cells thing or w/e that was based off ABR's false claim?

[GhostWriter]

CarnCarn, Xtoxm was targeted before claiming, for actions that did not sit well with us. He tried pulling the claim as a gambit to save him, while lynching someone he had barely a case on, simply to save himself. I was one of the people who switched the vote, because I saw it as one of them having to be scum, but had there been no claim, he'd have died yesterday anyway. The claim seems to have taken the front line of his actions, but people seem to be forgetting WHY he claimed in the first place.

[CarnCarn]

CarnCarn, what flavor are you talking about? The whole cells thing or w/e that was based off ABR's false claim?

Yeah... I went back and reread that post (241/243, page 10). It was based off his fake-claim:

In the aftermath of the airship battle where the Sierra is severely damaged, cid uses his knowledge of high-tier technology to build a special scope that can detect creatures with abnormal levels of mako energy (jenova cells?) in their bloodstream. He can only use this once a day.*

I don't think he provided any flavor for his real claim today, although I guess he is still claiming Cid.
Actually I'm not even sure he is still claiming Cid, based off his post #516. Hopefully he will explain.

[armlx]

No, I am the real Cid. I do want to win, you know.

If I had to fake-claim as scum and out a power role I'd claim Cloud daycop of Vincent vig.

No Yosarian, I would have admitted I lied on day 2, claiming the ABR Gambit.

[CarnCarn]

No, I am the real Cid. I do want to win, you know.

If I had to fake-claim as scum and out a power role I'd claim Cloud daycop of Vincent vig.

No Yosarian, I would have admitted I lied on day 2, claiming the ABR Gambit.

So that is 531. What did he mean by the last line of 516 ("Counter claimed? I haven't even claimed yet."), when he had clearly claimed Cid, in the same post no less?

[Elias_the_thief]

Vote Count Number Thirteen: The "PWN him with your Omnislash" Votecount

CallMeLiam - 7

(

Albert B. Rampage, wolframnhart, armlx, Cludsy, Empking, Zakeri, Natirasha

)

TonyMontana - 6

(

iamausername, Cephrir, christiano drago, kloud1516, Jebus, Cavebear with a toothache

)

Albert B. Rampage - 4

(

DynamoXI, , Grimmy, MBPikamon, TonyMontana

Natirasha - 1

(

MrBuddyLee

)

kloud1516 - 0

()

MBPikamon - 0

( )

Zakeri - 0

armlx - 0

iamausername - 0

wolframnhart - 0

Jebus - 0

Empking - 0

Cludsy - 0

Grimmy - 0
Yosarian2 - 0
Cephrir - 0
DynamoXI - 0
GhostWriter - 0
MrBuddyLee - 0
christiano drago - 0
CarnCarn - 0
Cavebear with a toothache - 0

With 22 alive, it takes

12

to lynch.

[armlx]

So that is 531. What did he mean by the last line of 516 ("Counter claimed? I haven't even claimed yet."), when he had clearly claimed Cid, in the same post no less?

I'll let him answer this, but I'm pretty sure what the implication was.

[Yosarian2]

I'm surprised so many people think xtoxm was the correct lynch, even in retrospect (in a quick review back, I see that armlx, Cephrir, and Natirasha all agreed on that).
He was obviously lying about the daycop claim. Why would anyone with that powerful ability investigate in the random stage and make themselves an obvious target on D1?
His lying didn't mean he was scum, though. When asked for role and flavor info, he gave it accurately. I don't think he would have been able to do so if he was scum and just given Bugenhagen as a safeclaim (the flavor, I mean). This is why I wouldn't have voted him because his flavor info suggested he wasn't lying about his alignment, even if he was lying about his role (which is not automatically anti-town; in fact, I can see situations when it would be very much protown to lie about one's role).

Avoiding this kind of convoluted, dead end "he lied about his role to save his own ass but I think he's town anyway" logic is exactally why LAL (or at least LAAL, "lynch almost all liars") is generally good for the town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, but not twice in a row, when a liar lies to lynch another liar. What if another person lied? Then we would lose.

CarnCarn stop role-fishing.

[wolframnhart]

With 6 days to the deadline do the non voters (4 of you i believe there are and i am too lazy to look at who it is) feel they have any read on someone to place their vote at? I would hate to see the 6 days drag out with little to no discussion.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's vote for CallMeLiam, he has a scummy-sounding name.

My name is Liam, ho ho ho. Look at me, I'm a bigshot terrorist slash rockstar. Called Liam. I don't lie. Ho ho ho.

See how scummy that was?

[CarnCarn]

Yes, but not twice in a row, when a liar lies to lynch another liar. What if another person lied? Then we would lose.

CarnCarn stop role-fishing.

So.. everyone who lies is innocent now?
Rolefishing? Are you Cid or not? And what do you mean by "you haven't even claimed yet" (post 516)? I'm not suggesting you share your abilities.

With 6 days to the deadline do the non voters (4 of you i believe there are and i am too lazy to look at who it is) feel they have any read on someone to place their vote at? I would hate to see the 6 days drag out with little to no discussion.

Right now, I think the evidence points towards ABR, but TM needs to answer the questions about his xtoxm/paranoid cop thing. I don't think CML has said anything that is really a scum-tell. This doesn't mean CML isn't scum; I'm neutral towards CML. Plus, anyone who didn't vote xtoxm D1 (e.g., CML, wolframnhart) gets a little bit of leeway in my book.