Mini 1558 - VisCon: Crossroads [Game Over]

[FakeGod]

Role PMs:

Brian Skies:

Hangman

: aligned with

Hanged

Brian Skies, you are the

Hangman

. You're pretending to be Aetis at the moment. Three years ago, portals between earth and Haell reopened. It was clearly a sign from the higher beings, letting you know that the end of the world is upon you. You will honor them by marking every living person in this town with a noose, whether they like it or not.

Witches are world's current closest and absolute representation of a quality. For example, it is widely known among the scholars that the current Witch of Death is the warlock who participated as his own faction in the last Great War over hundred years ago. He single-handedly slaughtered more people than anyone else have done in written records.

Unfortunately, Witches cannot be marked with a noose. They'll have to be ridden of.

Your partners are pieguyn, playing as

Cultist

, and notscience, playing as

Alden

.

notscience will join the scum QT with the full powers of the

Cultist

when the Witch of Truth (and Lies) is

dead

.

Abilities

:

Factional Mark x2

You visit a player during the night and

mark

him/her. A

Witch

cannot be

marked

. This ability can be used up to two times per night phase by your faction.

Factional Witch Kill x2

You visit a player during the night and kill him/her. You can only

kill

a

Witch

. This ability can be used up to two minus number of times your faction used

Factional Mark

this night phase by your faction.

Factional Day & Nighttalk

You may talk with pieguyn here. You do not have a

Day or Nighttalk

with notscience at the moment.

Win Condition

:

You win when every living player has been

marked

or aligned with the

Hanged

.

Please confirm your role via PM.

Aetis

: aligned with

Town

You knew something was off when you and Lizen entered this creepy town. The inn's name is "Last Chance", and the rooms are only big enough to fit a single bed! Hilarious.

It was supposed to be an overnight stay, but something horrifying happened last night. Many of the townsfolk were found hanging in one of the abandoned houses on the foot of the hill. They were all looking mighty fishy with their robes that covered them head to toe. Murmured whispers from the remaining townsfolk include words like "cult has returned" and "we're all going to die".

Well, they're free to give up their own lives, but you're certainly not going to go down easily! Time to bring the killers to justice.

It seems that there Witches present. If last two incidents have told you anything, is that Witches are the cause of incidents like these. You've gotten pretty good at hunting them down though.

To complicate matters, it seems that Jack is in town. Jack was your childhood friend who loved your sister Aetel before she disappeared through some kind of portal three years ago. He vowed to find her again and left the town and you haven't seen him since. Perhaps it's time for a reunion, to see how the time has changed your friend.

Abilities

:

Witch Cop

You visit a player during the night and learn whether the player is a Witch or not.

Last Chance Nighttalk

You may talk with Desperado here during the night.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

pieguyn:

Cultist

: aligned with

Hanged

Well, you got to the meeting place late, and saw the Hangman step out of the warehouse, with everyone else inside hanging from a rope. Too scared to say no, you're now helping the Hangman rope everyone in town. Apparently you guys are going to mark every living person in this town with a noose, whether they like it or not.

Apparently, there are these beings called "Witches". Apparently, Hangman wants them dead instead of marked. Perhaps after you do his bidding, he'll let you go. Until then, you're stuck greasing rope and noose.

Good luck!!!

Your partners are Brian Skies, playing as

Hangman

, and notscience, playing as

Alden

.

notscience will join the scum QT with full powers of the

Cultist

when the Witch of Truth (and Lies) is

dead

.

Abilities

:

Factional Mark x2

You visit a player during the night and

mark

him/her. A

Witch

cannot be

marked

. This ability can be used up to two times per night phase by your faction.

Factional Witch Kill x2

You visit a player during the night and kill him/her. You can only

kill

a

Witch

. This ability can be used up to two minus number of times your faction used

Factional Mark

this night phase by your faction.

Factional Day & Nighttalk

You may talk with pieguyn here. You do not have a

Day or Nighttalk

with notscience at the moment.

Win Condition

:

You win when every living player has been

marked

or aligned with the

Hanged

.

Please confirm your role via PM.

notscience:

Alden

: aligned with

Hanged

You are one of the recent recruits of the Hanged. You didn't join it because you were a bloodthirsty maniac. You did it because you wanted vengeance against a certain individual named Veris.

Both of you were once scholar girls full of aspirations. However, in a disastrous scholarly expedition three years ago, portals to Haell reopened and sucked in random people from all over the world. There were no survivors from the expedition, or so you believed. You lamented the loss of Veris, who was on that trip, and continued to study.

A rumor began to circulate around a town near where the expedition had met its end. A woman resembling Veris was apparently acting as an oracle and made clear many mysteries people brought to her. You were joyous at first, but you quickly realized what had happened: Veris must have killed rest of the expedition when she discovered one of the portals leading to Haell three years ago, in order to have it alone for her only to study. Furious, you traveled to the town and looked to join a cult that could satisfy your vengeance.

Your partners are pieguyn, playing as

Cultist

, and Brian Skies, playing as the

Hangman

.

notscience will join the scum QT with full powers of the

Cultist

when the

Veris, Witch of Truth (and Lies)

is

dead

.

If you are the only player alive left aligned with

Hanged

, you will immediately join the scum QT with full powers of the

Cultist

.

Abilities

:

Veris Cop

You can investigate a player to check whether his/her rolename is Veris once during a day phase, and once during a night phase. You get your results at the end of the phase.

Damning Evidence

Once you learned who Veris is, you can send the mod a PM during a day phase to force the day's lynch to be either you, or Veris. (gladiator)

Factional Day & Nighttalk

You may join the scum QT and gain all powers of a

Cultist

after Veris is dead.

Win Condition

:

You win when every living player has been

marked

or aligned with the

Hanged

.

Please confirm your role via PM.

SXTLHGaiden, hiplop, neil1113, borkjerfkin, havingfitz:

Villager

: aligned with

Town

Dear almighty! Good heavens! Did you see the hanging bodies at the warehouse? The Hangman is back! He's going to get you for sure, unless you can get rid of him and his cronies first. And only way to combat rope is with rope, right?

Hang or be hung. Watch out for rope! Let's do this.

Abilities

:

You have no abilities, other than your vote.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

GuyInFreezer:

Beta, Witch of Energy

: aligned with

Town

If earth, the material plane, is the "normal" plane of existence, then Haell could be described as the "high energy" plane of existence.

You are descended from the race of humans who traveled from material plane to Haell in search of better lives. They quickly found out that mana, source of all magic, is in very high concentrations in Haell. It allowed them to work unimaginable magic, those that created food and water out of nothingness, those that controlled weather, and so on.

The portals back to the material plane began to shut one by one as time progressed, but Haellians didn't care. They were convinced that they found paradise. Unfortunately, the ease with which anyone could work magic proved to be a their undoing. Magical experiments done on animals produced monsters that seemed straight out of a madman's imagination. Factions of Haell used mass-scale destructive magic against each other to gain dominance in the plane. Most of the Haell became a barren wasteland in less than a century.

The remaining denizens of Haell attempted open a portal back to the material plane, to no avail. The amount of mana required to restore the connection between planes was staggering. Nevertheless, one man finally managed to work out a spell that would create a chain reaction cycle that absorbed all nearby excess mana. He cast the spell, and staggered back in horror as the spell began to target and convert human beings into mana. As the spell blossomed to engulf their town, their continent, and the entire plane, last thing in his mind was to work a counterspell around his daughter, Beta. It was an incomplete protection, and she was absorbed into the spell as well, but she managed to keep her sanity in the process.

When she woke up, she found that her body was practically glowing with energy. She has absorbed the vast leftover energy of the ambient mana of Haell, and have become the Witch of Energy. Witches are world's current closest and absolute representation of a quality. For example, it is widely known among the scholars that the current Witch of Death is the warlock who participated as his own faction in the last Great War over hundred years ago. He single-handedly slaughtered more people than anyone else in written records. The portals to the material plane have been reopened, but no Haellians were left to take refuge back to their home plane. Few earth people inadvertently made it through the portals, but the monsters quickly attacked and devoured them.

Beta could destroy the monsters, but she wasn't able to get rid of them before they skewered the "guests". Ones that still clung to life, she cast a time travel spell on them in hopes that people of the future would be able to save them. As the wounded disappeared one by one, she grew curious about the lives they have led, and held a girl behind in a stasis for a year. Her name was Aetel, sister of Aetis. They shared to each other about their lives. During this time is when Aetel talked about a boy named Jack who was enamored with her. A year passed, and Aetel disappeared into the future.

Beta resolved to find Jack and tell him what happened to Aetel. Couple years later, Beta finally found Jack in one of the coastal cities. She realized that Jack has been trying to find out what happened to his beloved all this time. A bit jealous, Beta pretended to be a fellow traveler who was in need of a guide to the next town. Jack agreed.

So here you two are, in a middle of town suffering through mass lynching incidents. There's no way you're going to sit still and watch innocents get murdered en masse. Time to exterminate the killers.

Abilities

:

Nova

At any point during a day phase, you may send a PM to the mod to gain infinite number of votes. You may not multi-hammer with this ability. When you use this ability, you will die at the end of the day phase.

Undetectable Alignment

All attempts at investigating your alignment fail.

Campfire Nighttalk

You may nighttalk with Kalimar here.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

Desperado:

Lizen Hastiel

: aligned with

Town

You knew something was off when you and Aetis entered this creepy town. The inn's name is "Last Chance", and the rooms are only big enough to fit a single bed! You bet the prisons have better accommodations than this! Ugh.

It was supposed to be an overnight stay, but something horrifying happened last night. Many of the townsfolk were found hanging in one of the abandoned houses on the foot of the hill. They were all looking mighty fishy with their robes that covered them head to toe. Murmured whispers from the remaining townsfolk include words like "cult has returned" and "we're all going to die".

Well, they're free to give up their own lives, but you're certainly not going to go down without a fight! You're a Knight, and this means you can use Visualization. Visualization is the power to create temporary objects by envisioning them in your mind. The power runs in your family, including your younger brother, Lann. He's probably looking for you right now, since you left your home without a word 3 years ago.

Time to bring the killers to justice.

Abilities

:

Medic

You may target a player during the night phase to protect him/her from nightkills. You may self-target, but you may not target a same player two nights in a row with this ability.

Last Chance Nighttalk

You may talk with Brian Skies here during the night.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

Majiffy:

Lann Hastiel

: aligned with

Town

Sigh. You've been tracking your sister Lizen for last three years. She ran away one day without a word or an excuse, and you want to know why. Every place you've tracked her to, whether it be the Wingate Mansion, or the Kingdom of Lier, it seems that you missed her by few weeks every time. Perhaps this dingy town will prove better? Who knows.

Just like your sister, you are a Knight. This means you can use Visualization. Visualization is the power to create temporary objects by envisioning them in your mind. The power runs in your family.

It seems that something horrifying has happened last night. Many of the townsfolk were found hanging in one of the abandoned houses on the foot of the hill. They were all looking mighty fishy with their robes that covered them head to toe. Murmured whispers from the remaining townsfolk include words like "cult has returned" and "we're all going to die".

You don't care much for the townsfolk, but perhaps helping them may lead clues that will bring you closer to your sister.

Everyone looks like they're guilty of something. Perhaps you should teach all of them a lesson.

Abilities

:

Paranoid Cop

You may target a player during the night to investigate their alignment. You will receive "XXXX is aligned with

Hanged

." for your result unless your investigation fails.

Careful Vig

You may attempt to kill during the night any player that you have a guilty investigation on. ("XXXX is aligned with

Hanged

.")

NOTE:

You may not use

Paranoid Cop

and

Careful Vig

in the same night phase.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

Who:

Veris, Witch of Truth (and Lies)

: aligned with

Town

Witches are world's current closest and absolute representation of a quality. For example, it is widely known among the scholars that the current Witch of Death is the warlock who participated as his own faction in the last Great War over hundred years ago. He single-handedly slaughtered more people than anyone else have done in written records.

Three years ago, portals between earth and Haell reopened with violent explosions. As a young burgeoning scholar in a scholarly expedition, you were the only lucky one in your group who survived a close call with one of those portals. You were near one of the portals but didn't fall through, and intelligent enough to deduce what had happened. You couldn't believe your luck, and studied furiously what you believed as the world's next big discovery. What you didn't count on was the impact of such knowledge could have on your body. The laws of nature were rewritten, and you were the first one to discover them. Veris, the Witch of Truth (and Lies) was born.

You've been hanging around the town, acting as an oracle and answering any questions for any travelers you run into. Looks like you've grown in fame, seeing that more and more people come looking for answers every day. Perhaps you should cut back this oracle business a bit.

A great tragedy struck the town last night. Many of the townsfolk were found hanging in one of the abandoned houses on the foot of the hill. They were all looking mighty fishy with their robes that covered them head to toe. Murmured whispers from the remaining townsfolk include words like "cult has returned" and "we're all going to die".

Letting innocent people die is pretty lame. You've decided to use your powers to help the town catch the evildoers.

Abilities

:

Undetectable Alignment

All attempts at investigating your alignment fail.

Supersaint

Any player that hammers you will also die.

Vengeful

If you self-hammer, you may attempt to kill any player you want on your wagon.

NOTE:

Please include the vengeful shot in your self hammer post. (i.e.

Vote: Who

,

Vengekill: FakeGod

)

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

Kalimar:

Jack

: aligned with

Town

You're just a normal guy, living a normal life in the town you grew up in, dreaming a life with the girl you've been in love with since childhood.

Until three years ago.

Scholars describe it as a abnormal high energy concentration that ripped a rift between dimensions, altering laws of nature itself.

You only know that Aetel, your friend Aetis's sister who you love dearly, fell through some kind of portal that appeared without any sort of warning among the old city ruins you guys were exploring.

When you returned home after a night of fruitless search, your house was ripped into pieces, as if a giant bird raked it repeatedly with its claws. Your uncle who raised you ever since you were a child was nowhere to be found.

You left behind your hometown to learn more about the catastrophic event of three years ago. Traveling from city to city, you consulted more scholars and wise men than you could count, with not much progress. You did learn about that might get you somewhere: the existence of Witches.

Witches are world's current closest and absolute representation of a quality. For example, it is widely known among the scholars that the current Witch of Death is the warlock who participated as his own faction in the last Great War over hundred years ago. He single-handedly slaughtered more people than anyone else have done in written records.

In your travels, you met a quirky girl named Beta. She needed to get to this town, and because you are very experienced in traveling, you agreed to accompany her. In addition, rumor has it that the Witch of Truth has been sighted near this town. This is the closest you've been to the truth. You'll get your answers soon, and nothing will stand in your way.

Abilities

:

Campfire Nighttalk

You may nighttalk with GuyInFreezer here.

Win Condition:

You win when there are no threats to town remaining.

Please confirm your role via PM.

[FakeGod]

Setup Guide:

3 vs 10

Mafia Neighbor Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Traitor Gladiator

vs.

Town Neighbor Medic
Town Neighbor
Town 2-step Vig
Town Supersaint/Vengeful
Town Suicidal Bomber
Town VT
Town VT
Town VT
Town VT
Town VT

Night Actions

D1:

notscience checks GuyInFreezer, and learns that GuyInFreezer is not Veris.

N1:

Desperado self-protects.

Majiffy investigates Bait, and learns that Bait is aligned with Hanged.

notscience checks bait, and learns that bait is not Veris.

pieguyn kills GuyInFreezer and borkjerfkin. GuyInFreezer, who was Witch of Energy, dies.

D2:

notscience targets SXLTHGaiden and learns that Gaiden is not Veris.

N2:

Desperado protects Brian Skies.

Majiffy shoots havingfitz.

pieguyn kills Kalimar and Who. Who, who was Witch of Truth (and Lies), dies.

N3:

pieguyn marks pieguyn and Majiffy.

Majiffy investigates Kalimar and gets guilty.

Desperado protects Majiffy.

[FakeGod]

Thoughts

First of all, I have to say that general apathy of town was obviously the biggest factor in the town loss. That isn't to say that the scum team played very well. This setup was quite town-sided due to a number of factors. Scum can only kill two players (witches) in the entire setup, and they have no reliable way to find them other than brute force. This means scum no longer have a choice in choosing who to get rid of in the game. One of the scum were also a traitor, which meant that communication was cut off among the scum team itself. Scum were also given one fakeclaim that was a non-witch character, and therefore had no idea what witch role PM looked like or what their common abilities were, if there were any. This makes it extra difficult for scum to successfully fakeclaim a PR or pretend to be a witch. Nevertheless, pieguyn pulled off a sensor claim that went nearly uncontested most of the game.

Everything that could go wrong for town, went wrong however. Scum played very lurky, which they were able to get away due to the general apathy of the town. Lack of activity meant that Town never really left RVS on day 1 and had next to no info to go on in day 2. Scum saw GIF's PR crumbs, guessed he was a witch, and decided to keep the Marked mechanic hidden (which was a very risky gamble, since because they weren't guaranteed a night kill every night and every day they went without marking/killing was an additional lynch for town), and still was able to catch their first witch during n1. Desperado was convinced that Brian town via flavor, and wanted a massclaim. Massclaim was incomplete, but it ended up with town bleeding info all over the place in thread, resulting in Brian catching Who's crumbs and killing him on night 2. Meanwhile, town's delayed vig hit town, bringing town into MyLo on day 3. Fortunately for town, ns effectively scumclaimed on d3, which gave town an additional day, but now up against a mechanic that wasn't visible until the beginning of day 4.

[SXTLHGaiden]

I am amused.
GG. Good claim pie.

[Desperado]

[borkjerfkin]

Whatever.

Gut reaction:

1) This setup was kind of bullshit. There was literally no way for me to even get an inkling of what was going on in the game - it was literally all up to the PRs to play well and not get NKed - we were just along for the ride.
2) Outside of Desp my reads were awesome but it didn't matter.
3) Desp, man, I'm not gonna rub it in but I wish you'd have at least considered that Brian wasn't confirmed town.

[Desperado]

Yeah. We could have lynched Pie d3.

[borkjerfkin]

This setup was quite town-sided due to a number of factors. Scum can only kill two players (witches) in the entire setup, and they have no reliable way to find them other than brute force.

I really wholeheartedly disagree with this and you can see it in the night actions: scum are making 2 kills in a night, have an investigation on a third they can kill, and have a mechanic to off the ones they don't kill later on in the game.

It's one thing if the expectation is as such, but running this as a closed setup with basically massclaim being a death sentence, you've wiped out any sort of way you can claim this was townsided.

[borkjerfkin]

Not to mention the lack of flip info, and that was what bred apathy (at least for me) more than anything.

[FakeGod]

Dead QT

[FakeGod]

I appreciate your input, bork.

Can you elaborate what you mean by "There was literally no way for me to even get an inkling of what was going on in the game - it was literally all up to the PRs to play well and not get NKed - we were just along for the ride."?

VTs having good reads and scumhunting well is rewarded in this setup, just as they would be in any other setup in mafia.

[pieguyn]

uhhhhh

I really don't know what to say. I think in the end the only reason we won was bc of town apathy. the only thing I think I did ok this game is the way we played the night game/roles/etc.

gg

[pieguyn]

also did town srsly have no investigative roles?

I p much agree with bork that town can't get a handle on what's going on especially with the limited flips. having no investigate of any kind makes it even worse

I'm kind of biased towards setups that punish massclaim bc that's mostly how it was on my homesite so I don't have any complaints about massclaim being really bad for town, but IMO that makes the "town not having a handle on anything" problem even worse

anyway thanks for the game FG ^.^

[FakeGod]

Here are some numbers and thoughts.

Scum has 58.3% chance of missing Witches n1 if they go big and burned both of their shots trying to kill witches. (assuming Medic doesn't exist and they're shooting at random)

By how the numbers work out, if scum fails to kill a Witch or mark two people during a night, then town gains the 4th mislynch.

Most minis allow town to mislynch three times before they lose, so we see that given that scum tries to go big as they did in this game, they will on average have to dodge an additional lynch than they otherwise would in a standard mini.

Even if scum succeeds in their gamble, town still has the standard "3 mislynch before you lose". (vig can steal one for himself if he wishes)

Due to zero-info flips (town still know if someone flips VT though, so not entirely zero-info) and the weird mechanic, anyone who tries to setup spec gets screwed I guess?

[Majiffy]

1) This setup was kind of bullshit. There was literally no way for me to even get an inkling of what was going on in the game - it was literally all up to the PRs to play well and not get NKed - we were just along for the ride.

And as a PR, I still had no fucking idea what was going on, but I can tell you that the following were

really obviously

shit ideas and I said so in no uncertain means in the game;

Massclaim was fucking dumb and shouldn't have happened.
Assuming Pie was town was obviously fucking dumb and as such so was trying to strategise the whole game based around Pie being town.
Townie need to stop asking to be made dead if they're fucking town you fucking asdfghasajduahdf that's almost as fucking bad as self-voting fuck you.

[Majiffy]

Also hey maybe here's another thought Gaiden; when a PR is repeatedly trying not to out, and then PARTIALLY outs under force of the rest of the playerlist, STOP TRYING TO GET THEM TO OUT MORE INFORMATION IT'S OBVIOUSLY ANTI-FUCKING-MOTHER-SHITTING-TOWN.

[Kalimar]

Another episode of 'Apathy Kills Towns' concludes. I think that other than Death's Diner all of my townlosses have been built on apathy.

I'm a part of it. I take my blame in that regard. I'm not an energising player, even though I'd like to think I'm a thoughtful one... when I'm motivated to do the thinking. I can't turn it on tap, though.

I had reasonable reads on the whole - although I had far too many false positive scumreads, everyone I townread at some point did end up to be town. Even though I wavered on my Bait/fitz one a little.

Earlier today I'd been running through all the possible scumteams in my head and eliminating the ones I didn't like, although I hadn't finished. I'd got down to thinking there was exactly one scum in Brian-Desp, that Brian-Gaiden weren't partnered because of the vote and interactions, and that Desp-pie didn't feel right intuitively. I'd settled on my pie scum read, and was half tempted to yolovote him like I did with notscience, but I thought that everyone believed his claim and him to be town so I didn't have a lot of confidence that I would be able to convince people to vote that way. I thought that it was either pie and gaiden or brian and pie. So pie was the common factor.

But, I felt alone (mostly) in finding pie suspicious, so I kept a lot of those thoughts to myself. I didn't feel as though I would be successful in trying to lynch him. I kept most of my doubts about his claim to myself, because everyone else seemed to just buy into it. It's a flawed way of thinking, but it is a bias that affects me. I'm often not confident in going against the tide publically, even if I might in private. This happened in UPick too; roleclaim I was skeptical of won that game too. Two games in a row. heh.

[SXTLHGaiden]

lol

[notscience]

I think it was townsided simply because ns was scum.

Seriously

fuck scum role pms

[Kalimar]

Any flavour benefits for town were mostly offset by the Aetis fakeclaim, and the town-roles couldn't be intuited from their names. Vengeful/supersaint, vig and suicide votal bomber are not a very protown trio (swingy, admittedly). The medic was unlikely to have a successful action; it would tie up in self-saving when it couldn't be shot, or likely saving Aetisclaim, which generally happened here. So town had no real definitively useful power. And the notion of witches being true representations of their qualities was misleading; if you surveyed 100 people on what intuitive roles you'd associate with the terms 'Energy' and 'Truth (and Lies)' I'm not even sure the Witch of Truth would get any hits, and Energy might get just a couple in the right ballpark.

Although scum lose the ability to kill who they want, only the vig lategame is particularly one you'd want gone. Anyone obvtown but unthreatening can be marked, making only higher-accuracy/threatening scumhunters a big worry. Marked wouldn't equate to conftown for a while, necessarily; it would be easy to peddle the witch of death as a third party who needed to mark people for some mass kill or something, and I'm sure others could come up with more creative misdirections. The gladiator shot would likely backfire if used but requires such specific circumstances that it would be very unlikely to even be used.

I think it's slightly scumsided just because of the extent to which town is misinformed/misinformable and how informed the informed minority really is here. A bizarre setup, for sure. Different.

Thanks for running it, in any case, and congrats to the scum.

[Majiffy]

lol

[Brian Skies]

This setup was kind of bullshit. There was literally no way for me to even get an inkling of what was going on in the game - it was literally all up to the PRs to play well and not get NKed - we were just along for the ride.

I kind of feel that this is just how VisCon games go.

The last game (Desert Kingdom) had four town roleblockers (who were all neighbors with each other) and an unroleblockable scumteam. And only Muffin seemed to have caught onto the set-up. And even the scum-team that game thought it was multiball.

Regarding this game, I was given a lot of information to work with. I was even provided with a fakeclaim that could have gotten me quicklynched Day 2 had the mass claim been completed (and I was stalling it pretty hard because I was suspicious of a lie detector mechanic). I was also neighbors with the town doc. Granted I could only kill two people in the entire game, but it wasn't exactly hard working my night actions around Desp telling me who he was protecting each night (which is something you probably shouldn't do in the future).

As far as night actions are concerned, the people we wanted to kill just based on towniness and threat to figuring us out weren't even killable for us. Not only did we attempt to kill Kalimar and Bork, but we had to deal with them for the rest of the game. And I don't think those two would ever have gotten mislynched.

I actually wanted GiF and Who dead N1 because I thought they were both the likeliest to be witches (I was right and Who confirmed my suspicions Day 2 with crumbs; don't ask me why I was suspicious of Who being a PR, I just had that weird feeling he was one). But other than that, we could only mark everyone. We just got lucky and I'm sorry about the town apathy.

But this set-up wasn't exactly town friendly and there was a lot of swinginess to it (and not in a good way). I'd definitely argue with it being more scum-sided than town-sided just because the town didn't have a true investigative role (and I was pretending to be one). Also, Pie's fake-claim was OP as hell (I even thought so as we were making it) and I'm surprised he was able to ride it out for as long as he did.

Regarding Konowa/Neil, I tried to tell Majiffy to cut the crap and let people vote naturally. I even went as far as subtly trying to derail it. Asking for sheep votes is fine, but it has no place in the RVS stage.

Regarding Gaiden, I wouldn't put too much fault on him because he was pretty townish this game (aside from him trying to play the martyr). Or at least I thought so. And he had some pretty accurate suspicions towards me based on the stuff regarding the flavor-claiming.

@Pie: Fun scumming with you. Was a lot of fun in the QT planning this one out.

[Brian Skies]

Also, I'd give more credit to Pie because he was the one who decided to go with killing people instead of marking them and the fake-claim was mostly his idea. I just take credit for the Who/GiF NK's.

[FakeGod]

@Pie: Fun scumming with you. Was a lot of fun in the QT planning this one out.

The scum QT had nearly 50% of posts of the actual thread.

[borkjerfkin]

Can you elaborate what you mean by "There was literally no way for me to even get an inkling of what was going on in the game - it was literally all up to the PRs to play well and not get NKed - we were just along for the ride."?

So now that I'm calmed down a bit

1) Willing to admit that this is at least ~25% butthurt
2) that out of the way

a) There was no way of knowing how absolutely detrimental massclaiming was going to be for us. Like it was instantly fucking lose levels of bad. Generally massclaim is moderately anti-town, but here it was reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly anti-town.

b) The marked/kill win mechanic didn't hinder scum. Partially because of a), but really by N3 it could be reasonably assumed that all the witches were gonna be hit or at least known. Additionally, there was no real way of knowing how fucked we were until it was too late. I am especially close to this point because I made a similar mistake in my touhou game (which I stacked with hugely strong town PRs and scum still rolled town in). This would have been much better run as an Open.

c) no flips basically made it impossible to setup spec, and the bit part role compared to the named roles made it impossible to flavor spec from my PoV, which really left me out in the cold when Kalimar posts his wall of flavor and I'm thinking, 'yeah, well, I ostensibly live in the town I guess'. This + a) is probably the biggest issue - we were punished for both claiming (by scum mechanic) and by not claiming (by partial flip)

d) The PRs pretty much did nothing. These PRs in particular were entirely dependent on the scumhunting ability of the players with the role (in niche situations at that) and not at all dependent on my ability to analyze the validity of them to either scumhunt them wrt claim or to analyze actions post death because I had no way to figure out what the roles even did outside of massclaim which this setup punishes.

All that said, we played like shit and so it goes, but I never felt like I really had a shot.