Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[notscience]

Can we lynch Shadoweh instead?

My understanding of the chocola wagon was it was better to lynch a lurker and sort out what's going on with everyone saying they can be confirmed on day 2.

[fferyllt]

I'm going to stay up stupidly late tonight. hopefully will catch some of you in a talkative mood.

[borkjerfkin]

you haven't been around for most of the game so i think this is a bit silly

/stir pot

I don't have an issue with Sakura's entrance.

penny for your thoughts so far

Hey sakura catch this shade

/me throws it

=/

I could probably get behind a feysal vote.

I want him to get a chance to do things though.

This is exactly how I feel about you right now

also pie: ns read up to this point thx [ns immediately responded to this point]

So I expect NS to be sensitive to attempts to read him as town, and super sensitive to even perceived scumreads on him when he's town. I generally expect him to post fluff / deflections when he's scum, and that's how I was reading these responses.

I don't expect the grandstanding I got in 726 as scum so I'm backing off for the moment; I'm still concerned it took him this long to come out to play

[Shadoweh]

her explanations for why she was asking come from a town place

is this something you thought before or after suggesting kagami was a null read?

Before, and my exact words were, "Kagami seems town to me, I just don't trust myself to actually get a good read on her." You've played with her before, what do you think of her reasoning around asking for day cards and what she's asking bork about? I'm assuming you're thinking along the same lines as I am with her being town enough to sort out later if she's still there.

Also: I'll be annoyed if I have to claim today for a few reasons, mostly that I don't want to be stopped. I've been avoiding commenting on this lynch at this point but my opinion is after Feysal and bork voted each other and accumulated wagons on both sides, I find it odd not to lynch one of them.

[zMuffinMan]

I didn't think anything of kagami asking about card numbers or the reasoning behind it and it has all of nothing to do with why I decided she's more likely town than scum

ftr, I would assume said reasoning is something she probably thought before the game even began, which is why I didn't, and still don't, care about it

[borkjerfkin]

well for starters, a simplified "I think x is scum for reasons a,b,c" would be helpful since it seems like you're reading feysal as scum for projecting or something? and noddy scum for... not interacting with you and calling you scum? there may be other reasons but it's hard to follow the progression on these reads. I know you've talked to them or asked people's opinions of them but I don't see where the scum reads form and why

My stronger reads in the group were:
you - I thought your attempts to engage the majority of the playerlist really early and make judgments about those reads looked really town. I think the way you engaged me looked more inquisitive than an attempt to throw me off balance (see touhou upick 2 where I picked you out as scum instantly for that and proceeded to not get you lynched for the rest of the game)
sakura - I explained this one earlier

weaker reads:

relentless - I liked the push on NS and the frustration with the resistance he's getting seems genuine
sky_paladin: 203 in particular just pinged me as really town (also potential negative connection between him and both of ns/GIF due to constant confusing them)
kilga: eh, just overall like the feel. super candid thought process

contested reads I'm still trying to form:
pie: want a bonfide response to 623
kagami: was trying to figure out why kagami would have the following progression:
1) kagami: "hey I have reason to believe I know how many spellcards scum likely have"
2) me: I have a shitload
3) kagami: I think bork is town
4) kagami: I think scum probably have a high number of cards
I'm curious for demonstrable evidence of what she can do, so I'm gonna let her do whatever she she says she can do and proceed with that info

[borkjerfkin]

hi bork.

What's your GiF read?

Upon reread 149 seems marginally town
I don't really get anything alignment indicative from any of his other posts

[borkjerfkin]

At that point in my readthrough, I felt like it was odd to have a townread of bork in particular and Shadoweh as well.

Really? From skimming my ISO it looked like you liked most of my early posts.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm leaning toward voting either Gaiden or bork.

How the fuck did you get here from your initial catchup posts?

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway ffery I'm around tonight (although I'm watching the bengals game)

[fferyllt]

I'm here.

Bork, I liked your early posts but there weren't any that zinged unequivocal town to me. And there was a long period page-wise where you didn't post much and what you did post seemed more involved in fending off reads than in forming them.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah I was out of town most of the week and didn't end up getting time to post much

but even if that weren't true and I just lurkaderped with no explanation: how does any of that lead up to 848

[borkjerfkin]

Like if this were just a vehicle for engagement I probably wouldn't care

But it's not

It's late in the game day and we're trying to coalesce on a lynch

[fferyllt]

It certainly is a vehicle for engagement, though I've been worried that engagement wouldn't happen.

It's possible I'm overly influenced by zmuffin's read of you. he's been here in the thread, and it's his concerns about you that had me rethinking. When you came back around page 25 or so, I hoped that your posts after that would give me a better idea how you're seeing the game.

Instead, I found that you're scumreading a player I think looked pretty town especially when viewing him against the in-thread behaviors of his neighborhood.

[borkjerfkin]

Instead, I found that you're scumreading a player I think looked pretty town especially when viewing him against the in-thread behaviors of his neighborhood.

Feysal? Well, unpack that for me because he's been misrepping me pretty much the entirety of the game

[fferyllt]

notsci

[fferyllt]

I'll look back through the Feysel stuff, though.

[Shadoweh]

Muffin: That's categorically impossible, she said it's something in her role pm that made her think it.
I guess I'm not surprised it doesn't mean anything to you, the conclusion is still the same.

[borkjerfkin]

I am unimpressed with that being a reason to vote me

@ffery

[fferyllt]

I'm not voting you.

I've expressed willingness to vote you. It's pretty much in your court to convince me I shouldn't.

[borkjerfkin]

You've expressed a willingness to choose between me and

one

other person so let's just call that what it is.

It's pretty much in your court to convince me I shouldn't.

=/
I realize that you can't just trust that I'm town but this is basically just flipping my questioning of your read on me back at me without having to provide any explanation on why you arrived at a choice between me and gaiden

Who are your townreads btw?

[fferyllt]

Do you think I should have been able to drop into this game and form a townread of you based on what you'd posted before I arrived?

I've been trying to figure out how to use my own wagon to scumhunt, but the megavote effect kind of drowned out the need for players to take stances on my slot. You're one of the players who didn't take a stance. What should I make of that?

And what kind of coalescing is necessary when 3 players represent 11 votes?

[fferyllt]

My strong townreads are sakura, notsci, zmuffin and sky_paladin.

I got amilder townreads from relentless and GiF and pieguyn.

If there's scum in the BLOOD GOD neighborhood, it's probably pieguy, but I don't think she's scum. I'm just wary of her.

[borkjerfkin]

Do you think I should have been able to drop into this game and form a townread of you based on what you'd posted before I arrived?

I don't know and I hate this question. It's not up to me to tell you how town I am.
Again you're flipping this around on me - if you come in and don't immediately townread me, am I scum?

You're one of the players who didn't take a stance. What should I make of that?

Most of that transpired when I wasn't around, but my stance is:
Your slot hadn't done anything really either way and I am voting the person I want lynched.

And what kind of coalescing is necessary when 3 players represent 11 votes?

This really just sounds like a copout "I can be overridden without really any regard for my voting power so it doesn't matter what I actually do".
Yes, if muffin/gaiden/kagami decide to vote the same person they can lynch any slot they want to. Is that going to happen? Do the way the wagons form suddenly become unimportant?

[fferyllt]

Do you think I should have been able to drop into this game and form a townread of you based on what you'd posted before I arrived?

I don't know and I hate this question. It's not up to me to tell you how town I am.
Again you're flipping this around on me - if you come in and don't immediately townread me, am I scum?

It's up to you to show me how town you are. Not tell.

You're one of the players who didn't take a stance. What should I make of that?

Most of that transpired when I wasn't around, but my stance is:
Your slot hadn't done anything really either way and I am voting the person I want lynched.

Fair

And what kind of coalescing is necessary when 3 players represent 11 votes?

This really just sounds like a copout "I can be overridden without really any regard for my voting power so it doesn't matter what I actually do".
Yes, if muffin/gaiden/kagami decide to vote the same person they can lynch any slot they want to. Is that going to happen? Do the way the wagons form suddenly become unimportant?

No, you don't get what I'm actually saying. This is about the data available to me. The lynch would have gone through if I hadn't replaced in. I know my alignment whether the rest of town does or not. I can scumhunt off my wagon, but I'm not sure how to given the megavotes.