Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Transcend]

okay time for a reads list again.

{MariaR, JarJarDrinks}
{Thornumbers, Nero Cain}
{kraskanumbers, gerryoat, I Am Innocent, karnos}
{Elyse, Blitzkrieg}
{Shadow_step}
{MichelSableheart}

Elyse and Blitz null for now. Blitz was towny initially but eh. Elyse was scummy initially but I've liked a few of their posts so I'm torn.

PEDIT: I don't think his vote was RVS.

[Thor665]

I don't think his vote was RVS.

It was just as much RVS as mine - all votes have motivation, that is the nature of a vote. It doesn't make it opportunistic though, unless you want to suggest that he figured by placing the second vote he would magically end up on the biggest wagon in the game.

i don't think he's good enough to predict that - and if he is, then he's probably already done the actions that will win him this whole game as we lack all free choice.

[Thor665]

I also feel you're trying to slide my Maria handwave question.
Come on man, she openly admitted opportunism - why is it a big issue with Michael and not a peep about her?

Even if you just want to say "she's opportunistic as town!" you need to have an answer there, or you need to be aware of your tunnel.

[Transcend]

Because she's my diehard townread....

[Transcend]

Like I genuinely don't get the case on her... her votes that can be seen as "opportunistic" don't seem tactical, they seem genuine to me.

[MariaR]

Being the opportunistic person I am I will do anything to get my sr lynched

[Transcend]

Holy moly!!! Same!!!!

Just I think your SR is wrong but hey you do you.

[Elyse]

Elyse was either drunk or crumbed not sure which

Drunk

sorry about that

[karnos]

Have you ever played with Karnos before? Good logic is not his long suite

WHAT.

I think my logic is perfectly good. It's not fit to the "mafiascum meta 101", but I've seen enough games where proclaimed experts write walls and walls about reads, evidence, slips, etc, and then proceed to lynch a town player. It's all a lot of BS. Real logic requires a factual basis, most of the logical deductions that can be made in the game don't occur until day 2, when a some bit of real hard information is available.

[Transcend]

Lmfao, happens

[karnos]

And right now, logic dictates lynching transcend.

All else being equal, any lynch (outside of myself) has an equal chance of hitting scum. But lynching transcend would additionally give some interesting information about MariaR, where I don't see any other lynch giving the same bonus information.

[Transcend]

you think me flipping whether i'm scum or town will tell you mariar's alignment?????!?!?!?!?!!?!?!??!?

[Transcend]

like.... don't lynch for information.

for all i know, mariar could be bum-fucking me again like she did in one game. i doubt that's the case, but my flip isn't going to solidify that.

if you scumread me, then lynch me idc. but if you're lynching me for information that is tactically moronic.

[kraska77]

i kind of lost every last ounce of interest in this game...

[JarJarDrinks]

for all i know, mariar could be bum-fucking me again like she did in one game.

See I don't think someone that is town and believes the above would say something like this to me:

Or maybe you're a dumb blind idiot who can't see when he's getting manipulated.

And risk looking like a damn fool.

[Transcend]

i don't care if i look like a damn fool, you obviously haven't read any of my town games.

[Thor665]

Like I genuinely don't get the case on her... her votes that can be seen as "opportunistic" don't seem tactical, they seem genuine to me.

Okay, so your argument is that her votes aren't opportunistic (despite her admission) due to 'feels'.
That's an answer, I suppose.

WHAT.

I think my logic is perfectly good. It's not fit to the "mafiascum meta 101", but I've seen enough games where proclaimed experts write walls and walls about reads, evidence, slips, etc, and then proceed to lynch a town player. It's all a lot of BS. Real logic requires a factual basis, most of the logical deductions that can be made in the game don't occur until day 2, when a some bit of real hard information is available.

You suggest your logic is good, and then present a case against people who make walls, which has nothing to do with logic, and using the evidence of 'they were wrong' to attack a situation that may or may not have been based off logic.
I feel your answer here supports my stance.

i kind of lost every last ounce of interest in this game...

Replace out then as a kindness to the people who are still invested in the game.

[MariaR]

If transcend isn't town I'm jumping out a window

[karnos]

Naw.

You see right now, first you have to trust that transcend is town, lets say 70% chance he is town, and *if* he is town, then you have to trust that his read is correct, lets say he is 80% chance of reading MariaR correctly... then we have an overall chance of (.7*.8) 56% that transcend is town and is correctly town reading MariaR.

OTOH, if we lynch transcend, that equation is much simpler. Instead of a chance of being town, we will know transcend is town or scum, no guesswork at all. Then if he is town, we just have to think about the chance of him reading MariaR wrong. One variable instead of two, and a higher level of accuracy.

for all i know, mariar could be bum-fucking me again like she did in one game.

But you were willing to bet the game on it by claiming mason, possibly causing real masons to out themselves? What would you say your confidence level is? 90%?

[karnos]

You suggest your logic is good, and then present a case against people who make walls, which has nothing to do with logic, and using the evidence of 'they were wrong' to attack a situation that may or may not have been based off logic.
I feel your answer here supports my stance.

Huh? A case? I'm not presenting a case, I'm presenting EVIDENCE. Logic works. Making fake logic visible to everybody and using it to look towny... well that make "work" if your goal is to look towny, but it doesn't catch scum any more often than my logic does.

Look at any of my scum games, read the scum chat. We destroy people who post read lists and explain all their logic, because they are basically telling the scum team exactly what to do to win.

It's not logical to reveal your logic in game. So I don't see how you can say I'm not a logical player.

[MariaR]

Why don't you trust me then when I say he's town I'm not tring him for the mason claim but for other reasons already stated

[karnos]

Why don't you trust me then when I say he's town I'm not tring him for the mason claim but for other reasons already stated

Same reason.

I'd have to first trust that you are town, and then trust that you are reading him correctly.

[Transcend]

If transcend isn't town I'm jumping out a window

cya lol

[Elyse]

what did I do o-o

Sick of this shit

This isn't the Maria I know wailing "what did I dooooooo" over and over

[kraska77]

hoookay
maria is town because...i think she's perfectly capable of consistent play. especially with jarjar constantly pointing out inconsistencies in her posts, i think she would have tweaked her play if she were scum. that she didnt and continues to be erratic, makes me think town. can u guys please not reduce my read on her to just "meta"?